Thai Ruling Party Faces Ban Verdict Monday: Deputy PM Suthep

[Thai at Heart]

By Constitution Court Judge Jaran Phukditanakul's words, that would seem to be the situation. The 5 judges needed for a decision, one way or the other, is based on a majority of 9 (three of the judges have dropped from the case).

With only 6 judges remaining, it will require a near unanimous decision by them to reach a final decision on either guilt or innocence.

One really can only scratch one's head and state TIT.

Could this be imagined as an outcome in any other country?

[TAWP]

As I read the quote is only that it could end up 3vs3 ('split vote'), in which case there is no written rules as what to do...

[whybother]

As I read the quote is only that it could end up 3vs3 ('split vote'), in which case there is no written rules as what to do...

"With six judges, there could be an split vote on the verdict."

"A ruling must come from the votes of at least five judges, not the majority of the remaining judges, Jaran said."

A bit contradictory. I don't think anyone knows.

[Thai at Heart]

As I read the quote is only that it could end up 3vs3 ('split vote'), in which case there is no written rules as what to do...

Well I guess they will just make it up as they go along. How about removing one to make an odd number?????

Draw straws? Paper, scissors rock?

[TAWP]

A bit contradictory. I don't think anyone knows.

Perfect - by tomorrow we will not even know what the outcome is when we here the numbers of judges votes unless it is in the extreme to either direction...

[Thai at Heart]

A bit contradictory. I don't think anyone knows.

Perfect - by tomorrow we will not even know what the outcome is when we here the numbers of judges votes unless it is in the extreme to either direction...

Thai politics. SNAFU comes to mind.

[Robby nz]

Was wondering about the run-away sec who has been used to creat all the turmoil in the court.

What was he promised, paid or threatened with that would make him lose what had to be a top paying job in this country?

He also had to leave his family, assuming he has one, must have at least a mother if not a father, wife and children.

He now can not return to this country without being hauled before the court and probably put away for a long time.

There must have been a considerable payment for it to be worth his while.

But when his usefullness has come to an end, what will his fate be then?

Could be cheaper for him to just dissapear than to keep paying him.

Come to think of it there could be others in a similar situation who have absconded to another country.

What was the old quote (slightly altered)

"If I should die think only this of me. That some corner of a foreign field is forever red"

[phiphidon]

Crucial verdict could be handed down tomorrow

By The Nation on Sunday

The Constitution Court will deliver a crucial verdict tomorrow that could make or break the ruling Democrat Party and its leader, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

The country is on edge as legal representatives of the Election Commission and Democrat Party will each have 30 minutes to deliver closing statements to the court on the case, in which the party is accused of misusing Bt29 million of public funds.

Both the EC and the Democrat Party have already submitted their documents to the court so it's possible the court will hand down a verdict in the afternoon after hearing the closing statements.

Constitution Court Judge Jaran Phukditanakul, meanwhile, expressed concern that the court was left with only six judges after Charoon Intrajarn was allowed on Friday to avoid making a ruling on the dissolution case due to the video clip scandal.

With six judges, there could be an split vote on the verdict.

Prime Minister Abhisit asked all key party members and Cabinet ministers yesterday to travel together to the court tomorrow to hear the verdict.

The party's chief adviser Chuan Leekpai, a former premier, would deliver the closing statement to the court.

"We don't know yet when the court will make its ruling, but we're prepared for a same-day ruling," Abhisit said, adding that he would have nothing to do with the party's preparation to appoint a caretaker premier in the event that he is disqualified by the court in connection with the case.

Asked if the Thai Khem Khaeng Party registered in Songkhla is the Democrats' back-up party, Abhisit said he had no knowledge of the new party.

"Whose party is that? I don't even know. However, in the political circumstances and according to the Constitution, it's not so difficult for remaining MPs to switch to other parties if their party is dissolved," he said.

Commenting on whether his deputy Suthep Thaugsuban, the party's secretary-general, would fill in the caretaker seat, Abhisit said he did not know.

"Suthep's voting right might also be revoked," he said adding that the selection of a new prime minister would be up to the Parliament.

He said the party had not discussed preparing a back-up party for the remaining MPs and party members to move to. He believed party members would just meet to discuss what to do next if the party was dissolved.

He said the court must clarify the ruling in detail although some groups would be dissatisfied with the ruling whether the party was ruled to be dissolved or not.

Judge Jaran said the law did not state what to do or how to decide if the same number of the judges rule differently. It did not say to give the benefit to the defendant either.

"It is the duty of the Parliament to find a solution and issue an organic act on the charter on the Constitution Court's ruling," he said.

Moreover, he was concerned that three out of the nine judges had withdrawn from the case.

A ruling must come from the votes of at least five judges, not the majority of the remaining judges, Jaran said.

A Constitution Court judge, who asked not to be named, proposed that court president Chat Chonlavorn decide on the case if the same number of judges rule differently.

Deputy Democrat leader Suthep also said the party had not prepared any back-up party or a new prime minister. He was convinced the party was innocent in this case.

As deputy prime minister in charge of national security, Suthep said he had not learnt about any rallies to pressure the Constitution Court. Police would be mainly in charge but the military would support if necessary.

PM's Office Minister Ong-art Klampaiboon, head of the party's Bangkok MPs, said key members of the party including Abhisit would attend to hear the closing statements at the court tomorrow, and even if the court ruled on the same day, the party would accept the court's ruling without any condition.

He said the party had no necessity to prepare a back-up party as many political parties had registered with the Election Commission. The Democrats could contact and join them. However, he was still confident the party was innocent.

Besides calling on people not to put pressure against the court, Democrat spokesman Buranaj Smutharaks said it was normal for party MP Thepthai Sennapong to say Suthep would be Abhisit's caretaker, as he was Abhisit's deputy.

-- The Nation 2010-11-28

2 CC Judges apply to be excused from making a ruling in the dissolution case due to the following factors;

Both have been allegedly implicated in the court video tapes scandal showing favouritism to applicants taking an court officials exam.

Both have filed suits against the Pasit (the court official accused of making the accusatory videos), the PTP Spokesman and Matichon for libel and offences under the Computer Crime Act.

Only one, Charoon Inthajarn is excused, and as The Nation pointed out there was no reason given for not excusing the other Judge, Suphot Khaimuk.

If 2 Judges had been excused there would have been no chance of a evenly split vote, the actions to be taken in that event not covered by existing law.

Judge Jaran said the law did not state what to do or how to decide if the same number of the judges rule differently. It did not say to give the benefit to the defendant either.

"It is the duty of the Parliament to find a solution and issue an organic act on the charter on the Constitution Court's ruling," he said.

Moreover, he was concerned that three out of the nine judges had withdrawn from the case.

A ruling must come from the votes of at least five judges, not the majority of the remaining judges, Jaran said.

So three scenarios;

All Judges vote the same way, either for or against the Democrats - Democrats win OR Democrats lose

The vote is tied, there is no existing guidance on what to do and the Parliament has to discuss and raise an organic act, delayed at least until January when Parliament sits again (unless they can rule that very day, an unlikely event) Democrats survive to fight another day

Any other vote result not acceptable due to " ruling must come from the votes of at least five judges, not the majority of the remaining judges " Democrats survive to fight another day

[TAWP]

If the voting is required to have 5 of the remaining declare a guilty verdict, why mention a split vote? It would not affect anything...

So, some facts are messed up here.

[phiphidon]

If the voting is required to have 5 of the remaining declare a guilty verdict, why mention a split vote? It would not affect anything...

So, some facts are messed up here.

No they do not say that. The quote is

A ruling must come from the votes of at least five judges, not the majority of the remaining judges

Nothing about that it must be a majority vote, so, 3 for, 3 against, fulfills the "at least 5 judges votes" rule and provides the split vote scenario. Hence my point being if they had excused 2 judges, a split vote would not have been possible.

[Pib]

A 3 to 3 vote could the worst thing possible from a political instability standpoint...and also give all the opposition parties more verbal ammunition for a variety of things to include next year's election--an election which must occur even if PM Abhisit stays in power based on the ruling. Not a pretty view regardless of the viewing angle.

[mkawish]

PM's Office Minister Ong-art Klampaiboon, head of the party's Bangkok MPs, said key members of the party including Abhisit would attend to hear the closing statements at the court tomorrow, and even if the court ruled on the same day, the party would accept the court's ruling without any condition.

The Dems will accept any ruling without condition.

It would seem they have respect for the law and the legal process.

Wouldnt it be great if the same could be said for the PTP and the reds.

But then if you look back you will see that they and their backer Thaksin have never been able to accept any loss gracefully.... to the cost of this country and the people.

I see on another news story that the PM when asked what he would do if he was barred said "Anything but politics"

Personaly I'm amazed he has stuck it out at the job for so long.

What with the threats to his life and family and the abuse, the obvious corruption of those around him and hassles he has had to put up with he must have been asking himself many times "Is it worth it"

So why has he stuck to the job he was asked to do?

The reds will say something like ' because he is obsessed with power or for the money'

But if that were so he wouldnt be sitting back waiting to accept any court verdict, no he would be trying to corrupt the process (as did the reds).

More likely for the love of his country and the wish to see it move forward away from past corruption.

You are truly alot wiser than many of us who still couldn't see beyond our huge noses.

[Buchholz]

From email inbox:

george has just posted a new status update.

======================================================================

RT @RichardBarrow: CRES has prepared a helicopter in case needed for emergency escape by the Constitution judges /via @Juarawee

======================================================================

[Piengrudee]

Suthep hops the part will be ban, so he will become the stand-in PM for 30 days. The only chance he can be PM in his life.

[Buchholz]

Constitution Court will deliver verdict in Democrat case at 2 pm

The panel of Constitution Court judges announced that the court will deliver a verdict in the Democrat Party dissolution case at 2 pm.

The court made the announcement after the party and the Election Commission made closing statements in the morning.

-- The Nation 2010-11-29

[Thai at Heart]

From email inbox:

george has just posted a new status update.

======================================================================

RT @RichardBarrow: CRES has prepared a helicopter in case needed for emergency escape by the Constitution judges /via @Juarawee

======================================================================

All very dramatic. Doesn't reporting that involve endangering national security?

[animatic]

From email inbox:

george has just posted a new status update.

======================================================================

RT @RichardBarrow: CRES has prepared a helicopter in case needed for emergency escape by the Constitution judges /via @Juarawee

======================================================================

All very dramatic. Doesn't reporting that involve endangering national security?

Only if the Reds or Pad have RPGs.

But it does point to the nature of the powers and pressures

being put on this court to vote against the Dems.

Edited November 29, 2010 by animatic

[phiphidon]

From email inbox:

george has just posted a new status update.

======================================================================

RT @RichardBarrow: CRES has prepared a helicopter in case needed for emergency escape by the Constitution judges /via @Juarawee

======================================================================

All very dramatic. Doesn't reporting that involve endangering national security?

Only if the Reds or Pad have RPGs.

But it does point to the nature of the powers and pressures

being put on this court to vote against the Dems.

Or just a case of grandstanding.............

[whybother]

Or just a case of grandstanding.............

It's happened before that VIPs have had to be evacuated by helicopter ... Pattaya April 2009 ...

[gregb]

Suthep hops the part will be ban, so he will become the stand-in PM for 30 days. The only chance he can be PM in his life.

According to the Nation ("Don't Blink"), the new PM will be Deputy Prime Minister Sanan Kachornprasart, not Suthep. Suthep could be penalized along with Abhisit if a guilty verdict is returned.

[Siam Simon]

Or just a case of grandstanding.............

It's happened before that VIPs have had to be evacuated by helicopter ... Pattaya April 2009 ...

.....Which was also grandstanding. The only people trying to turn that protest ugly were Suthep and Newin's hired Blue Shirts. In the end, it all came down to a large plate glass window being broken by crowd pressure, and a load of Red Shirt protestors sat on a lawn being supervised by the Army in the gardens at the Royal. But hyperbole is a marvelous thing, isn't it?

[hammered]

Or just a case of grandstanding.............

It's happened before that VIPs have had to be evacuated by helicopter ... Pattaya April 2009 ...

.....Which was also grandstanding. The only people trying to turn that protest ugly were Suthep and Newin's hired Blue Shirts. In the end, it all came down to a large plate glass window being broken by crowd pressure, and a load of Red Shirt protestors sat on a lawn being supervised by the Army in the gardens at the Royal. But hyperbole is a marvelous thing, isn't it?

Try breaking through a police line and getting into the hotel grounds where an international conference is going on in a western country or any other one for that matter and see what would happen. The Thai reaction of helicoptering out was quite minimal and natural rather than grandstanding. That is reality of international events and protests against them.

[whybother]

Or just a case of grandstanding.............

It's happened before that VIPs have had to be evacuated by helicopter ... Pattaya April 2009 ...

.....Which was also grandstanding. The only people trying to turn that protest ugly were Suthep and Newin's hired Blue Shirts. In the end, it all came down to a large plate glass window being broken by crowd pressure, and a load of Red Shirt protestors sat on a lawn being supervised by the Army in the gardens at the Royal. But hyperbole is a marvelous thing, isn't it?

By crowd pressure? How many were injured by falling glass or by suffocation? Or do you mean pressure of having metal things thrown against it?

[Siam Simon]

Or just a case of grandstanding.............

It's happened before that VIPs have had to be evacuated by helicopter ... Pattaya April 2009 ...

.....Which was also grandstanding. The only people trying to turn that protest ugly were Suthep and Newin's hired Blue Shirts. In the end, it all came down to a large plate glass window being broken by crowd pressure, and a load of Red Shirt protestors sat on a lawn being supervised by the Army in the gardens at the Royal. But hyperbole is a marvelous thing, isn't it?

Try breaking through a police line and getting into the hotel grounds where an international conference is going on in a western country or any other one for that matter and see what would happen. The Thai reaction of helicoptering out was quite minimal and natural rather than grandstanding. That is reality of international events and protests against them.

Can't remember any emergency exits taking place at any of the 'G' summits that are always targeted by protestors. Can you?

[random]

Can't remember any emergency exits taking place at any of the 'G' summits that are always targeted by protestors. Can you?

Siam Simon, you may as well bang your head against a brick wall, the people you are educating are not prepared to listen to anything other than the brainwashing they have accepted. their hatred of Thaksin is so great that even the most obvious of evidence in his favour, or agaisnt their precious abhisit goes ignored.

[Siam Simon]

Can't remember any emergency exits taking place at any of the 'G' summits that are always targeted by protestors. Can you?

Siam Simon, you may as well bang your head against a brick wall, the people you are educating are not prepared to listen to anything other than the brainwashing they have accepted. their hatred of Thaksin is so great that even the most obvious of evidence in his favour, or agaisnt their precious abhisit goes ignored.

Well....Hammered isn't brainwashed. He's one of the more intelligent and honest posters on here.

[random]

Can't remember any emergency exits taking place at any of the 'G' summits that are always targeted by protestors. Can you?

Siam Simon, you may as well bang your head against a brick wall, the people you are educating are not prepared to listen to anything other than the brainwashing they have accepted. their hatred of Thaksin is so great that even the most obvious of evidence in his favour, or agaisnt their precious abhisit goes ignored.

Well....Hammered isn't brainwashed. He's one of the more intelligent and honest posters on here.

That may be so, maybe the word 'entrenched' would be better for him, either way he still will not see the blindingly obvious when it absolves red shirts of anything.

Anyway, the whitewash.... i mean verdict should be getting read out about now

[whybother]

Can't remember any emergency exits taking place at any of the 'G' summits that are always targeted by protestors. Can you?

Siam Simon, you may as well bang your head against a brick wall, the people you are educating are not prepared to listen to anything other than the brainwashing they have accepted. their hatred of Thaksin is so great that even the most obvious of evidence in his favour, or agaisnt their precious abhisit goes ignored.

That's funny coming from you, Random.

[Buchholz]

Constitution Court starts reading verdict in Democrat case

The panel of Constitution Court judges started reading its verdict in the Democrat Party dissolution case at 2 pm Monday.

The court said it would make judgments on five points of arguments.

The Nation

[Buchholz]

Or just a case of grandstanding.............

It's happened before that VIPs have had to be evacuated by helicopter ... Pattaya April 2009 ...

and there's also this year's efforts