Monks Praying For Rain

[scubachild]

I recently read an article in Bangkok Post about Monks prayiing for rain in the north and north east of the country. Since (as I understand it) there is no god in Buddhism I wonder to whom these monks were praying??

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Thanks

[chownah]

...................

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Thanks

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is this a joke?

[cdnvic]

I recently read an article in Bangkok Post about Monks prayiing for rain in the north and north east of the country.  Since (as I understand it) there is no god in Buddhism I wonder to whom these monks were praying??

Can anyone enlighten me on this?

Thanks

Thai buddhism has absorbed some animist and other rituals that definitly do seem at odds with buddhist thought, but you'll find that nearly every branch of buddhism has its own quirks that don't make alot of sense. Prayer gives people a way to feel less helpless over something they have no control over (rain, the sea, etc).

cv

[sabaijai]

It seems the monks in the north got what they prayed for, plus a lot more they didn't want.

[scubachild]

I can understand uneducated lay people going to the Wat and praying for rain or good luck in the lottery or what ever.....but for the monks themselves to do this seems particularly bizzare. Its a bit like a Rabbi praying to Jesus

Adam

[cdnvic]

I can understand uneducated lay people going to the Wat and praying for rain or good luck in the lottery or what ever.....but for the monks themselves to do this seems particularly bizzare.  Its a bit like a Rabbi praying to Jesus 

Adam

Monks are little better educated than lay people, and these traditions have been going on for centuries. All religions have oddities, this is one of them.

cv

[chownah]

I don't think that monks are praying when they try to make it rain. I think it looks similar to the christian thing called praying but that monks are actually doing something else....maybe its chanting for rain....or saying an incantation for rain...but I don't think its praying. Does anyone have any information that would indicate that it is actually praying? Are there words spoken to some other world being or entity in an attempt to communicate?

[cdnvic]

Chownah your description is probably more accurate. While it's not uncommon for Thais to "pray to the Buddha", chanting and incantations, though intended for the same purpose, are more appropriate terminology for what the monks are doing.

Thanks

cv

P.S. remember, everything gets fuzzy in translation.

[sabaijai]

Case of semantics here, I think. Naturally we tend to use the word 'pray' with Christianity, and 'chant' with Buddhism, but in reality both exist in both traditions (or at least in the Roman Catholic and various orthodox traditions, there are also Latin or Greek chants).

To be technical about it, when monks are reciting Pali verses, yes they are chanting. But they also improvise Thai-language text according to the occasion, beseeching Lord Buddha to assist with weather, health issues and blessings of various kinds. In such cases I think it's fair to use the word 'pray'. Chanting is far more common.

Likewise when laypeople are kneeling before Buddha altars with flowers, incense, etc, they are often 'praying' in the sense of asking for favours from above. For Thai lay Buddhists, I'd say prayer is more common than chanting.

Although canonical Theravada Buddhism is non-theistic, the Thai version most assuredly contains theistic elements in the open veneration of the Buddha and various Brahman dieties.

[Mr. Farang]

The Buddha taught that all things are conditioned. Religion is no exception, and Buddhism is conditioned by myriad influences over its (relatively) long history.

The Buddha also taught that their are 10 "Chains" or "Fetters" (samyojana, q.v.), that bind humans to the Worldly Condition and all 10 of these chains must be broken before one can reach the desired state of Enlightenment.

Breaking one of these 10 chains requires Mindfulness of the difference between religious teaching (the "sasana", in Thai) and the traditions (the "brapranee").

My personal observations in 17 years of Buddhist practice, including a short period as a Monk in southern Thailand a number of years ago, is that very few people break this chain - and are not Mindful of the how cultural and religious traditions "condition" all things, including religious practices.

For example, see:

http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/ebdha209.htm

Samma Ditthi and Spiritual Attainment

Knowledge of right view becomes fulfilled with spiritual attainments, which we call the fruits of the path. There are four spiritual stages in which the 10 fetters of samsaric existence are gradually eradicated. A person in the first stage is known as a stream-enterer or sotapanna. He has eradicated personality belief, sceptical doubts and attachment to mere rites and rituals. A person in the second stage is called sakadagami or once-returner, and has weakened sensual desire and ill will. Those in the third stage are called anagamis, or non-returners. They have completely eradicated sensual desire and ill will. Those in the fourth stage are Arahants or Enlightened Ones. They have eradicated craving for fine material existence, craving for immaterial existence, conceit, worry and, last of all, ignorance, because all these fetters are rooted in ignorance. In the final stage, ignorance can be overcome by realizing the Four Noble Truths through right view of penetrative knowledge.

The Significance of Samma Ditthi

The Buddha's teaching is based on understanding. Without understanding, there can be no Nibbana or other spiritual attainment. It is clear that the Noble Eightfold Path leads us to attain final deliverance, that is Nibbana. 'Just as, monks, whatsoever great rivers there be such as the Ganges, Yumuna, Aciravati, Sarabhu and Muhi, all of them flow, slide and tend to the ocean. Even so, monks, a monk who cultivates and makes much of the Noble Eightfold Path flows, slides, tends to Nibbana.' As we have already discussed, the Noble Eightfold Path begins with samma ditthi. It points in the right direction, towards nibbanic bliss. It is like a compass on a journey.

It may be helpful to keep in mind that many Buddhist Monks have their own Karma ("gaama"), and each individual has their own "conditioning" ...

Edited August 21, 2005 by Mr. Farang