Compost Bin Full Of Some Kind Of Larvae

[sudyod]

Started a small compost out in the yard in a black garbage bin about one month ago. I cut out the bottom and poked a bunch of holes along the sides with a hot piece of rebar. I then have layered some dried grass and leaves with a little dirt with the bulk of the material being kitchen scrapes and old fruit. About a week ago, I noticed large larvae about 1/2 to 3/4 inches long and slightly grey/brown in colour active throughout the bin. Today I had a peek and found some serious clumps of these larvae on banana leaves near the top. They appear very active and the compost bin that I thought was going to quickly overflow is now receding faster than I can dump in new material. For those of you who have experience in composting, have you encountered these larvae? I don't see any worms (yet), just fruit flies and maggots that are largely being pushed out by these larger larvae. Doing some googling, I found that these are likely Black Soldier Fly larvae and are excellent composters. The insect itself is not harmful in anyway and seems to be quite useful at composting waste with higher moisture content like kitchen waste.

Any of you more experienced with composting in LOS, I welcome your thoughts and any confirmation that these are BSF larvae. I didn't see any reference to them in Thailand on a quick search online.

Whatever they are, they are doing the job!

http://davesgarden.c...showimage/4771/

I didn't get as close as this guy did to the larvae but they look like this..

[IsaanAussie]

Sudyod,

Lucky you, I have been trying to attract BSF for months. I believe their castings and residuals make excellent worm bedding. The larvae are very high protein and I want to try using them as feed. They are used to compost manures and even road kill. There are some excellent articles on making a self collecting chamber cum compost bin on the web. The adults live only a few days to breed and are said to emit an odor that repels house flies. Handy critters.

Isaan Aussie

[WatersEdge]

Yes, What you describe is Black Soldier Fly.

The larvae will eat house fly larvae,

so that the dominance of Black Soldier Fly will eventually drive the House Fly out.

The adults are a cheery sight to me,

precisely because you so seldom actually see them.

I gather coconut coir fiber, and along with it comes the occasional rotted coconut.

In dumping these stink bombs in a place they can air out,

the Black Soldier maggots came out with the juice.

Isaan Aussie, I have not forgotten my pledge to send you your starter stock of BSF.

Your area will be a happier place after your stock spreads far and wide.

If Chickens have free range over a manure pile where BSF are growing,

they will meticulously hunt every last one.

I have some of the most prosperous chickens ever.

[sudyod]

Ok, that's great! I was a little nervous because when I first arrived, I woke up with a nasty burn like welt on the side of my face and on my arm. The locals said it was a type of insect that spits or shitz out some kind of acid leaving a nasty, blistering welt. When I saw these little black wasp like insects in the compost bin, I thought (like I do with every unrecognized bug I see) that they must be the acid throwing beasts that got me. I was slightly unnerved to see what I thought might be their offspring growing by the pound in my bin.

Very happy to hear they are not and even happier to know they are good to have around.

[sudyod]

Just to follow up on attracting these flies, I read somewhere that the BSF need sunlight to lay their eggs. I have regularly been removing the lid of my bin to help dry it out and allow more oxygen to enter. Today, I went out in afternoon when the sun hits the bin and saw these BSF doing their business inside. Having the larvae really does increase the moisture and I'm wondering if I should elevate the bin off the ground as the mushy sludge they generate is starting to ooze out the bottom aeration holes. Although I haven't added anything but dried grass/leaves, little bit of dirt and kitchen waste, the sludge smells like manure. I thought that was strange since BSF are supposed to break down manure, not make it!!

I scooped out some of the sludge at the bottom and dropped it into a bucket of water. Watersedge, can you tell me how to use it as a fertilizer for vegetables? Dilution or anything else I need to know. There is a bunch of us with vegetable plots alongside each other and I would really like to grow the biggest, greenest veggies with my secret formula.

Sudyod

[IsaanAussie]

Just to follow up on attracting these flies, I read somewhere that the BSF need sunlight to lay their eggs. I have regularly been removing the lid of my bin to help dry it out and allow more oxygen to enter. Today, I went out in afternoon when the sun hits the bin and saw these BSF doing their business inside. Having the larvae really does increase the moisture and I'm wondering if I should elevate the bin off the ground as the mushy sludge they generate is starting to ooze out the bottom aeration holes. Although I haven't added anything but dried grass/leaves, little bit of dirt and kitchen waste, the sludge smells like manure. I thought that was strange since BSF are supposed to break down manure, not make it!!

I scooped out some of the sludge at the bottom and dropped it into a bucket of water. Watersedge, can you tell me how to use it as a fertilizer for vegetables? Dilution or anything else I need to know. There is a bunch of us with vegetable plots alongside each other and I would really like to grow the biggest, greenest veggies with my secret formula.

Sudyod

Sudyod,

Obviously the bottom of the bin is anaerobic. I would suggest you raise it up on some bricks. Try putting some chicken wire under the bin to support the compost and allow it to drain. The commercial BSF bins have a metal mesh platform in the bottom and a drain hole with a jar or bucket to catch the juices.

The sludge should be loaded with bacterial microbes but it is not compost tea it is leachate. You have a number a options:

• You could treat it as manure and mix it with water and using it the same way you would a cow manure cocktail. I would suggest adding a cup of EM to fix the smell issue.
• You could treat it as an inoculant for a normal compost pile
• You could use it mixed with other bedding materials in a worm farm.
• Or you could try making a brewed tea as follows -
  Try mixing it in a 5 gallon drum of water and adding a cup full of EM and one of molasses to feed the bateria. Leave that stand for a few days giving it a good stir every hour of so. If that works it should smell like soil, you may even get some yeast floating on top as you do when making EMA, thats a good sign. Then use it as a soil drench on your vegetables.
• If you have an aerated compost tea brewer, so much the better. I would mix the sludge into the water in the brewer add a cup of EM and one of Molasses, turn on the aeration and leave run it for about 8 to 10 hours. There shouldnt be much smell other than that of EM. If that works then you have a great inoculant for a compost tea so add the compost and more molasses and brew away.
• To use as a foliar spray, strain it through a 400 micron mesh (paint strainer bag or even old mosquito net will do)

Isaan Aussie

Edit: I am finishing some changes a new 130 litre compost tea brewer which will be aerated by my air compressor, I will start testing today. Let you know the results

Edited November 30, 2010 by IsaanAussie

[sudyod]

Thanks Isaan Aussie,

I appreciate the education I am getting from your post and google searches to understand the terminology. I think my pile is searching for an identity. The BSFL don't leave much by way of compost to improve the bad soil that was dumped in our yard a few years ago. They also don't break down leaves, corn husks, or any fibrous material. They do a good job hollowing out a bunch of bananas, leaving just a bunch of shells. I'm thinking it might be good to keep one bin optimized for BSF and high-throughput waste reduction, and another for carbon-rich material, like the weeds that all the neighbours love to set fire to (usually still green) as the dust and rice husk is just not choking us up enough.

If I set up a layered dry leave, manure, food waste, repeat in a concrete catch basin, will I need to add worms or will the composting be sufficiently handled by microbes in this climate?

I took your advice and added some of my IPA yeast and some palm sugar to a paint pail half full of muck and water. I keep stirring it throughout the day and will see if in a few days the sewage smell is gone. I won't ask any more questions until I get a handle on foliar sprays and compost teas as it is all new to me. Previous compost experience was as a kid with a pile out back that we turned once in a while.

Sudyod

[IsaanAussie]

Thanks Isaan Aussie,

I appreciate the education I am getting from your post and google searches to understand the terminology. I think my pile is searching for an identity. The BSFL don't leave much by way of compost to improve the bad soil that was dumped in our yard a few years ago. They also don't break down leaves, corn husks, or any fibrous material. They do a good job hollowing out a bunch of bananas, leaving just a bunch of shells. I'm thinking it might be good to keep one bin optimized for BSF and high-throughput waste reduction, and another for carbon-rich material, like the weeds that all the neighbours love to set fire to (usually still green) as the dust and rice husk is just not choking us up enough.

If I set up a layered dry leave, manure, food waste, repeat in a concrete catch basin, will I need to add worms or will the composting be sufficiently handled by microbes in this climate?

I took your advice and added some of my IPA yeast and some palm sugar to a paint pail half full of muck and water. I keep stirring it throughout the day and will see if in a few days the sewage smell is gone. I won't ask any more questions until I get a handle on foliar sprays and compost teas as it is all new to me. Previous compost experience was as a kid with a pile out back that we turned once in a while.

Sudyod

I remember the backyard compost pile when I was a kid, it was one of my chores to turn it once in a while. My composting system is based on pig manure, rice hulls and straw. I produce compost from the muck out of the pig sty in under 3 weeks. I tried a layered system here but find mixing the raw materials as you add them works best. I fill a bin in 3 days and bag in three weeks later, lots of work with the pitch fork and shovel. I add a few handfuls of CRH and spray EMA on the pile after each fill and new bins are turned completely daily. Currently I am producng about a cubic metre of compost a week.

The key is to control the moisture level, I run my compost bins as dry as I can while still allowing them to heat up to 70C. If you dont get that temperature within a day or so, then the pile is either too dry or too small. That assumes you have the C:N ratio right, I try for 30:1. I allow the pile to maintain as much temperature as possible for as long as possible. You will know when it is ready to use because slaters and other bugs will start to colonise it.

What the BSFL dont eat, worms will. Use the remainder from the BSFL as bedding for the worms. Compost seperately for the garden would be my advice.

I have started producing Carbonised Rice Husks which would be good for your bad soil. If the area is grassed just wet it down and top dress. If it is bare then wet it spread the CRH and rake it in a bit. You are adding carbon and silica which will improve the soil structure. The rest of the answer for bad soil is to increase the humus content and the nitrogen levels. You could try planting a crop of green manure. You could mulch or use compost as a mulch. Good news is you can fix it, bad news is it will take a while and lots of work.

Anyone in my area (Sisaket) who wants to come takea look is welcome, drop me a PM. The picture is of the missus adding rice hulls to the pyrolysis burner pile, easy enough to do but the smoke produced can be a choker in confined areas.

Isaan Aussie

[IsaanAussie]

I think I should add something to clarify my last coupleof posts. It concerns leachates from composting or worm farming. These are not teas but fluids draining throughthe compost and being collected at the bottom. Whilst they will contain microbes they will not be that plentiful compared to an aerobically brewed tea. They will contain nutrients leached out of the compost pile however hence will benefit your plants. Usual dilution 1:10 with water.

Isaan Aussie

Edited December 1, 2010 by IsaanAussie

[sudyod]

I am going to grow some mung beans or something as a green manure and try to break up the soil a little. The soil is so hard and compacted I almost expect to find rebar in it. You talked about keeping the compost on the dry side. Do you find ants making their home in your bins? Each time I turn my compost and add some dry grasses, ants take up residence. Maybe it needs to get hotter.

Did you mean 70C temperature in your bin? I thought 35-40C would be optimal for microbial breakdown.

I have lots of time and will work on your suggestions. Until my composting shows more promise, my wife will remain a skeptic!! I was hoping to impress mom by collecting buckets of BSFL for her chickens, but with that failing, I have to rely on my ability to endure a few more days of rice harvesting.

Sudyod

[IsaanAussie]

I am going to grow some mung beans or something as a green manure and try to break up the soil a little. The soil is so hard and compacted I almost expect to find rebar in it. You talked about keeping the compost on the dry side. Do you find ants making their home in your bins? Each time I turn my compost and add some dry grasses, ants take up residence. Maybe it needs to get hotter.

Did you mean 70C temperature in your bin? I thought 35-40C would be optimal for microbial breakdown.

I have lots of time and will work on your suggestions. Until my composting shows more promise, my wife will remain a skeptic!! I was hoping to impress mom by collecting buckets of BSFL for her chickens, but with that failing, I have to rely on my ability to endure a few more days of rice harvesting.

Sudyod

Try using some carbonised rice hulls in your soil, will help to keep it more viable.

Ants? Only if the compost gets too dry or the materials arent completely mixed and a dry pocket occurs. Sometimes the green flies will lay eggs in the fresh material but the larvae are killed off as the temperature rises. Yes 70C in the bin is the target, not for breakdown but to kill pathogens in the manure.

IA

Edited December 4, 2010 by IsaanAussie