Thaksin And Sondhi Equally Bad: Suthep

[ballpoint]

I don't normally respond to this kind of post - "all this amart crap etc" - but I think it's worth pointing out "amart" is just a label.In 1960's Britain it would have been the "establishment" or the "Boston Brahmins" in the U.S of the 1950's.The comparisons don't quite work out I agree, but the point is "amart" is just a convenient description.Baker and Pasuk have written interestingly on this but their audience is primarily well educated people.They and most other commentators would certainly recognise the existence of an "amart", though not necessarily a class war as some Reds would have it.

The Pasuk Baker book has its merits, but is no substitute for getting out into the rural regions and talking with the people in their own language to find out what they really think of Thaksin. In that way it could even be said to be aimed at those too lazy or ignorant of the language of the country they have chosen to live in (and argue so vehemently about) to get off their <deleted> and find out for themselves. Basing an entire political opinion on one book is also a little narrow minded, but I guess if the smallest cap fits, then that's the one you're stuck with.

[yellow1red1]

haha good one! which one is Suthep??? HAR me maties!

[yellow1red1]

So Sondhi is finished, but Thaksin is not.

More reason why they aren't "Equally Bad"... which, again, Suthep didn't say in the first place.

whoa mr full timer , 1800 + if yr gonna count beans do it ACCURATELY

Suthep

If you ask me, I say both are as evil

THAT is an equality statement

read the OP, say yr sawy and stop spinning for 1/2 a day,,,

some pple are equally AS stupid as lug nuts ,

And some people post as if they are tripping on acid, so enjoy the tracers.

If, at the end of the day, he is saying they are equally bad or equally evil, then I would say he was wrong in his assessment for the reasons I've delineated previously.

In terms of body count, the most egregious of the differences, and levels of corruption and scope of power, it's not even close.

btw, how are you progressing with sending out those 393 Personal Messages?

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4052636

.

no apology to the OP who wrote the headline accurately quoting Suthep? no surprise full timer

they are equally as a bad as each other IS WAHT SUTHEP said ur wrong

[jayboy]

I don't normally respond to this kind of post - "all this amart crap etc" - but I think it's worth pointing out "amart" is just a label.In 1960's Britain it would have been the "establishment" or the "Boston Brahmins" in the U.S of the 1950's.The comparisons don't quite work out I agree, but the point is "amart" is just a convenient description.Baker and Pasuk have written interestingly on this but their audience is primarily well educated people.They and most other commentators would certainly recognise the existence of an "amart", though not necessarily a class war as some Reds would have it.

The Pasuk Baker book has its merits, but is no substitute for getting out into the rural regions and talking with the people in their own language to find out what they really think of Thaksin. In that way it could even be said to be aimed at those too lazy or ignorant of the language of the country they have chosen to live in (and argue so vehemently about) to get off their <deleted> and find out for themselves. Basing an entire political opinion on one book is also a little narrow minded, but I guess if the smallest cap fits, then that's the one you're stuck with.

Not sure what point you are trying to make.

The point about Pasuk/Baker is that they are not only scholarly but accessible.That's why I recommend them in a forum like this.My own reading list covers many others.

[LomSak27]

If he keeps on like this, I might actually end up liking Suthep.

It is a positive sign they are finally realizing what they bought when they made their deal with Sondhi.

Interesting how many expats have forgotten Sondhis gentle words and kind comments regarding international banks and the 97 melt down. I can throw him many times farther than I would ever trust him.

[TAWP]

Where have you been? Thaksin is tweeting and calling in to PTP meetings and red shirt rallies every other week.

Actually...he hasn't been tweeting much at all lately...

[eurasianthai]

If he keeps on like this, I might actually end up liking Suthep.

He sure got a few bonus points in my book.

But he is starting from a low base, so won't be the winner of the most likeable politician in Thailand anytime soon

Edited December 1, 2010 by eurasianthai

[Thai at Heart]

If he keeps on like this, I might actually end up liking Suthep.

He sure got a few bonus points in my book.

But he is starting from a low base, so won't be the winner of the most likeable politician in Thailand anytime soon

He isn't competing in the most likeable politician's stakes.

But on another thread apparently he got his hand severely slapped for what he said. As a politician he said absolutely the right thing, but apparently someone somewhere still has a liking for the PAD. I can't fathom why.

Maybe this whole saga and the future just took a big and very serious political right turn.

[aperturebkk]

No. 1 priority on all Thai and foreign business owners in Thailand should be to see Sondhi imprisoned for 20+ years for bringing the country to a standstill back in 2008 when HE orchestrated the airport closures. This was the key turning point that made Thailand the laughing stock of the planet. Many tour operators wiped Thailand for a year or so and in-turn caused billions of baht in lost revenue for so many, too many....

[Buchholz]

No. 1 priority on all Thai and foreign business owners in Thailand should be to see Sondhi imprisoned for 20+ years for bringing the country to a standstill back in 2008 when HE orchestrated the airport closures. This was the key turning point that made Thailand the laughing stock of the planet.

The key turning point was a year and half before the airport saga when the Red Shirts instigated the first major violence that injured hundreds.

If they had been "imprisoned for 20+ years", the airport saga might not have ever happened.

oh.... and welcome to Thaivisa.

[Thai at Heart]

No. 1 priority on all Thai and foreign business owners in Thailand should be to see Sondhi imprisoned for 20+ years for bringing the country to a standstill back in 2008 when HE orchestrated the airport closures. This was the key turning point that made Thailand the laughing stock of the planet.

The key turning point was a year and half before the airport saga when the Red Shirts instigated the first major violence that injured hundreds.

If they had been "imprisoned for 20+ years", the airport saga might not have ever happened.

oh.... and welcome to Thaivisa.

I am not being glib, but when you say the reds did something 18 months before, I would like to know where?

Was it against the PAD in Bangkok or somewhere else outside Bangkok?

Edited December 1, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[Buchholz]

In Bangkok,

Request for revocation of General Prem’s home siege trial rejected

BANGKOK, 9 July 2010 (NNT) - The Criminal Court has turned down the request for nullification of criminal charges lodged against 4 anti-government leaders for besieging the home of Privy Council President General Prem Tinsulanonda in 2007.

The court denied its approval for the petition submitted by Mr Peera Limcharoen, lawyer representing the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), reasoning that the charges previously filed by the prosecutor against the 4 UDD leaders were deemed justifiable.

Four Red Shirt leaders in court over 2007 protest at Privy Council president's residence

BANGKOK - Four Red Shirt leaders on Monday morning appeared at the Criminal Court to hear evidence against them in the case charging them besieging the residence of Privy Council President and former Prime Minister Prem Tinsulanonda in 2007.

The four anti-government United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) leaders are Veera Musikapong, Nuttawut Saikua, Weng Tojirakarn, and Wiphuthalaeng Phatthanaphumthai.

They are charged with assembling in a group of more than 10 people, causing disturbances at Gen Prem Tinsulanonda’s Sisao Thewes residence on July 22, 2007, and obstructing the operations of security officials.

The four earlier testified in court on July 8 after being indicted on charges of leading the Red Shirts besieging the Bangkok home of Gen Prem.

At that time they denied all charges.

They are now detained at the Bangkok Remand Prison on terrorism charges for their roles in the anti-government protest during April-May that turned violent with grenade attacks and arson in the capital and some provinces in the North and Northeast.

On July 22, 2007, the four allegedly led thousands of UDD activists to surround the home of Gen Prem at Si Sao Thewes, calling for him to resign as Privy Council president.

Apart from the four, three other UDD leaders were indicted on the same charges last year - Nopparut Vorachitwutthikul, Veerasak Hemthilin, and Wancha Naphuttha.

MCOT - August 23, 2010

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/93415.html

[SergeiY]

In Bangkok,

Request for revocation of General Prem’s home siege trial rejected

BANGKOK, 9 July 2010 (NNT) - The Criminal Court has turned down the request for nullification of criminal charges lodged against 4 anti-government leaders for besieging the home of Privy Council President General Prem Tinsulanonda in 2007.

The court denied its approval for the petition submitted by Mr Peera Limcharoen, lawyer representing the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD), reasoning that the charges previously filed by the prosecutor against the 4 UDD leaders were deemed justifiable.

Four Red Shirt leaders in court over 2007 protest at Privy Council president's residence

BANGKOK - Four Red Shirt leaders on Monday morning appeared at the Criminal Court to hear evidence against them in the case charging them besieging the residence of Privy Council President and former Prime Minister Prem Tinsulanonda in 2007.

The four anti-government United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) leaders are Veera Musikapong, Nuttawut Saikua, Weng Tojirakarn, and Wiphuthalaeng Phatthanaphumthai.

They are charged with assembling in a group of more than 10 people, causing disturbances at Gen Prem Tinsulanonda’s Sisao Thewes residence on July 22, 2007, and obstructing the operations of security officials.

The four earlier testified in court on July 8 after being indicted on charges of leading the Red Shirts besieging the Bangkok home of Gen Prem.

At that time they denied all charges.

They are now detained at the Bangkok Remand Prison on terrorism charges for their roles in the anti-government protest during April-May that turned violent with grenade attacks and arson in the capital and some provinces in the North and Northeast.

On July 22, 2007, the four allegedly led thousands of UDD activists to surround the home of Gen Prem at Si Sao Thewes, calling for him to resign as Privy Council president.

Apart from the four, three other UDD leaders were indicted on the same charges last year - Nopparut Vorachitwutthikul, Veerasak Hemthilin, and Wancha Naphuttha.

MCOT - August 23, 2010

http://www.mcot.net/cfcustom/cache_page/93415.html

Well, there was the coup and no legit government, democracy wise, in power during that time. They should get some citizen award, they did nothing wrong. the putschist broke the law and violated the constitution

[Buchholz]

They should get some citizen award, they did nothing wrong. the putschist broke the law and violated the constitution

They don't give awards for injuring hundreds of people... unless it's awarding jail time.

[whybother]

Well, there was the coup and no legit government, democracy wise, in power during that time. They should get some citizen award, they did nothing wrong. the putschist broke the law and violated the constitution

The red supporters often use the "they did it first" argument to make their crimes "OK".

The April/May excuse was very much like "They blocked our driveway, so we burnt down their house".

[Buchholz]

Well, there was the coup and no legit government, democracy wise, in power during that time. They should get some citizen award, they did nothing wrong. the putschist broke the law and violated the constitution

The red supporters often use the "they did it first" argument to make their crimes "OK".

The April/May excuse was very much like "They blocked our driveway, so we burnt down their house".

Very good analogy.

To add to the absurdity of their empty claim, it was the Reds that "did it first" with the first violence on a large scale a year and half before the airport.

[TAWP]

Since there was no legit government in place when the coup happened, I suppose SergeiY really meant that the coup-makers should be given a medal for their actions...

[yellow1red1]

Suthep would be doing just fine down South still

Seems that hands and biting is something that Sondhi is more than au fait with already.

http://en.wikipedia....dhi_Limthongkul

Originally a strong supporter of former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra

His banker, Viroj Nualkhair, became president of state-owned Krung Thai Bank and gave more than a billion baht in "debt forgiveness" to Sondhi, allowing him to emerge from bankruptcy. Sondhi became a vocal supporter of Thaksin, calling him "the best prime minister our country has ever had

He reminds me a bit like Fredo from the Godfather Part II.

Whether Sondhi's a moral paragon or has leprous ethics is not central to the argument, unless we want to get bogged down in ad hominem arguments and their rejoinders. He may come across as arrogant and supercilious. which would probably repel many; he may also be politically dead in the water for one or more reasons. I don't know; however, I suggest turning coat would hardly be one of them. When we look at all the coat-turning and party-changing that takes place among Thai politicians, Sondhi's volte-face against Thaksin is hardly novel. The difference is that S. went on the road with an intense and well-publicised campaign to unseat his former pal and patron. Not that Sondhi brought about T's downfall by himself. Thaksin managed to do that quite efficiently on his own behalf with some very unwise moves.

The thing is not whether you'd like S. to marry your daughter or manage your business affairs, but whether his analysis of Thai politics and economics (and he spends a lot of air time talking about the latter) is insightful or not. Expats may take offence at Sondhi's renegadery, but I don't know that Thai politicians do or other Thais in the political discourse community for that matter. They object either to his analysis, which is perfectly OK in political discourse, or to his role in destroying Thaksin's credibility. He is quite open about his past relationship with T. and the reasons for the falling-out. He's never tied to hide it, so why do we wheel it out now?

xAN "He is quite open about his past relationship with T. and the reasons for the falling-out. He's never tied to hide it, so why do we wheel it out now?"

Yes'....he brags about bank rolling Thaksin into power, However, please?, show, in writing, where A., Sondhi has bragged the billions of debt Thaksin forgave, FORGAVE?, Sondhi [i've got a bit on a credit card that would be nice to have 'forgiben']

B. plz show where Sondhi stated "the reasons for the falling-out"!!!???

It wasn't even Thaksin, it was Pridiyathorn Devakula who held his esteemed ground on the millions of dollars in bad loans that Sondhi's man, Viroj, had slipped off to 'who knows where?' ,,;a certain yacht club, i bet.;;;Sondhi has a pack of idiots believing he 'learned' how corrupt Thaksin was. The truth is, he and his buddies had millions of there own corrupt money at stake, so throwin his pard in corruption under the bus was nothin.

Ask why there never has been an investigation of those millions of dollars? well Thailand has been a bit too busy, to look into it, eh?

If it was not for Khun Pridi's stand, Thaksin and Sondhi would still be pulling the strings together, instead of whipping each other.

>>> My signature? it would be nearly impossible to come up with a dozen words that better paints the real picture in TiTzup>>>

[animatic]

Y1R1

I'll note that at that time he stood his ground, Kuhn Devakula was Thaksin's man.

He is one of the more astute minds around Thailand, and no doubt at that time as reading the cards going Thaksin's way... for awhile. But he didn't stay long He has since gone back to being a thoughtful man in general as a pundit. Waiting for things to shake out, and talking on issues, not sides mostly.

But at the time Sondhi was reamed out, Thaksin was in full power, and few saw benefit to cross him. So 'the bankers' move at that time would have been coming from above, even as it might have been his own suggestion, especially when a logical and moral right was also in play, as suspect Kuhn Devakula read it at the time.

His decision stands the test of time, but had to also have been signed off on by control freak, Thaksin back then, too big a deal not to have been. And I bet Thaksin now rues the day he raked Sondhi across the coals.

Edited December 4, 2010 by animatic