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Communication And Compromising


seonai

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Hi guys, especially to SBK whom I remember from ages ago. How much compromising is necessary for you to live with your Thai partner? And how about communication, I don't mean language, I mean understanding each other's needs?

My marriage is in trouble..... husband says i ask too mant questions, have too many ideas and that he wants me to leave him alone so he can "do his way"....

I love him and we've been together 2 years, I compromise a LOT. I wear Muslim clothing I curb my instincts to speak too much. Live and breath Thai culture........

Any ideas out there ? Not "leave him and get a life" answers please. I am trying to understand this.

S

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I think communication and compromise between partners from any background is very important. However, when you are both from different backgrounds it is very difficult and this can put an obvious strain on your relationship. Language barriers, cultural differences etc are all obstacles.

It seems to me that your husband can't understand why you are asking questions for whatever reason and maybe feels threatened that you are trying to change things. Maybe he's new to the fact that he's being challenged by you on some things. There could be several issues.

For it to work he has to give a little too. It can't continue if its just you who's making the effort. You'll only last a certain length of time before you'll ask yourself whether it's worth it or not.

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My questions are really simple, "What did you do at work today", "What did so and so say about....blah blah"

But I am not allowed to ask.......

I am not allowed to smile and laugh......

I must tip toe around all the time.....

Scared to speak if he's not in the mood.....

I think I have had enough of this world and it's horrible people. I try too hard to be natural and nice and all the time I meet people who are horrible and who want to hurt or don't care about others.....

I think I am weird

I CARE about other people

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Sorry, but you mentioned " I wear Muslim clothing ..." are you living a muslim life now? If you are, muslim have their own rules regarding husband and wife relationship and if i'm not mistaken, asking husband of where he is going or what he is doing outside the house is a no no.

Cross culture relationship is not easy especially if it got to do with a tight religion such as muslim.

(no pun intended here)

Explorer :o

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I hope that it is okay to stick in my thoughts here, being a man.

Leaving aside the Muslim thing as that is a cultural thing I am unable to comment on......

I have known women in a similar sort of situation as yours, Including my lady's experience with her ex husband. My sister as well.

It is my belief that your husband's treatment of you is intended to 'keep you in line'. The intention is to lower your feelings of self worth and for you to regard yourself as an extention of your husband, part of your husband's goods and chattels.

Be warned, violence against yourself is quite possibly going to follow. I'm not saying that it will,I hope for your sake that it doesn't. The problem is that you may well accept beatings because of your low self esteem and will not find the will to escape.

Think carefully about your relationship and especially the cultural differences, .

Above all, hang on to your sense of self identity. Remember that you are a special person, you care about a lot of other people and I'm sure that many people care about you.

I'm not an expert, nothing I have written is based on any type of research, only on what I have seen happen to women that I care about

Take care

Loong

Edited by loong
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My questions are really simple, "What did you do at work today", "What did so and so say about....blah blah"

But I am not allowed to ask.......

I am not allowed to smile and laugh......

I must tip toe around all the time.....

Scared to speak if he's not in the mood.....

I think I have had enough of this world and it's horrible people. I try too hard to be natural and nice and all the time I meet people who are horrible and who want to hurt or don't care about others.....

I think I am weird

I CARE about other people

Above all, hang on to your sense of self identity. Remember that you are a special person, you care about a lot of other people and I'm sure that many people care about you.

I'm not an expert, nothing I have written is based on any type of research, only on what I have seen happen to women that I care about

Take care

Loong

Loong, nice response :o - seems the gals aren't around tonight and that's the needed thing here but you and Ex did well imho and I'll try as well.

I'm no expert on relationships (far from it) but there's a few alarms going off reading the op post but the main one I hilighted.

Seonia, it sounds like you're very isolated where you are? That must be very difficult in these circumstances. Maybe try to make an excuse to get away for a few days- for sure call your family asap (in the UK was it?) OR, visit a gal pal you get on with or try to hook up with one here (maybe that's what your post intended?)

Sounds like a re-evaluation is in order and I agree with loong, any controlling partner spells serious underlying issues, the cultural one's are another matter (I have a few Muslim pals and they don't treat their wives like this). Tomorrow will come and def consider taking a break, even just to come up for some much needed air.

Meantime, as the REM song says, Hold On... ! :D

Edited by baht&sold
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actually does sound a moslem man problem: man's business is his own.... yours is home and, if u have one, your job (teaching, childcare etc).... u are excpected to know what he wants and thinks without really asking.......i work with muslem arab workers also (not just thai workers) from nearby village but well educated, israeli-ized, etc but i know what the girls tell me and i know what the guys (mostly 20+) tell me...... the men still expect their wives to have the house in order and know what the guy wants when HE gets home from work, etc w/o words.....girls talk to girls, guys to guys.....if u do go visiting, make sure he knows the house and that it is female company or jealousy matters may arrise also... not saying this is always the case, but if u are in muslim dress, then he is maybe more traditionally oriented also?....

cross cultural is always difficult but mix a structured traditional male oriented religioun in to the thai part and u get double cultural mix and mix ups.... u might want to ask some of the women (in a roundabout way) about 'men' (without going in to details or husband might think u are mixing other people in HIS business which is a no-no, an other cultural thing i had with my ex --- not thai but not american like me)... if u get along with his sisters/aunts/mother, then watch and listen to what they say when talking about him (if u speak the language that is), ask delicately about things that are about him and see if u can use your 'telepathy' to 'intuitively' know what is going thru his mind.....

love is not always enough since it takes a lot of energy to anticipate what someone wants when he doesnt say it but expects u to know automatically

and thai men dont like to talk much about themselves, although someone here mentioned that her husband learned to express what he feels in words (i am angry because......) cant remember who though we did discuss it once

on the other hand, you might not want to put up with this type/style of living for the rest of your life unless you are very good at doing behavior remodelling in a very subtle fashion....

good luck

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How much compromising is necessary for you to live with your Thai partner? And how about communication, I don't mean language, I mean understanding each other's needs?

Are you asking this question of your husband as well or are you thinking you are the one who should compromise even more in order to change and become who you are not for the relationship to be to his liking.

Then you must ask yourself if this is what you really want in a partner.

I have seen it many times with friends who did not want to abandon a sinking ship, but suffered trying to salvage a relationship, their partners perfectly happy not recognizing the despair their wives were experiencing.

If your needs aren't met or understood now, what will it be later.

You should be happy.

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It was me, Bina.

Seonai, I don't know where you live but if you live in the deep south they are far more traditional than the Muslims where I live so I can't give you an answer about culture. The Muslims here are very laid back, one of our staff has married a Muslim man (which, as you know, means she must convert) and he is lovely, very sweet, even helps her wash the dishes. Cooks for her when she doesn't feel well. Of course, they are newly married.

I can say that if you feel things have changed in your relationship then they probably have. If he was ok with your behavior before and is suddenly not then something has happened to start that attitude. Have you had issues with a family member? Could he be getting criticism about marrying a farang? If you live in the deep south things are getting very weird down there and the extremists seem to be delving into people's lives quite a bit (ie not allowed to work on the fridays now), could it be something like that?

Have you tried talking to him about your feelings but in a non-confrontive, non-argumentive mode? Nothing stops a discussion with my husband like me getting combative. If I tell him calmly and with my thoughts clearly laid out we can usually talk things through. I have found this is the best way to handle anyone, actually, farang or thai. Yelling and getting angry just makes everyone angry and doesn't solve a thing.

If this doesn't work is it possible for you to go home for a bit? That might help, believe it or not, it would also give you the space you need to think things through.

And lastly, are you afraid of your husband now? is he aggressive or violent in any way? If so then your best bet would be to just escape as fast as you can, this is a country where noone will get involved in a abusive situation between a husband and wife.

Please keep me informed, now you have me worried!!!

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Hi guys, especially to SBK whom I remember from ages ago. How much compromising is necessary for you to live with your Thai partner? And how about communication, I don't mean language, I mean understanding each other's needs?

My marriage is in trouble..... husband says i ask too mant questions, have too many ideas and that he wants me to leave him alone so he can "do his way"....

I love him and we've been together 2 years, I compromise a LOT. I wear Muslim clothing I curb my instincts to speak too much. Live and breath Thai culture........

Any ideas out there ? Not "leave him and get a life" answers please. I am trying to understand this.

S

[/quo

Just leave him alone and find another new thai man.

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I also doubt this is a "Muslim" issue. Agree with most of the posts above that this is more a tradition/culture mis-match really. These guys treat their women because "that's how it's done there" and any different to that and it makes him angry. He can change from that but maybe he's not open to change and that's why he wants to leave you. Seonai, some people just cannot change regardless of how much you try, it's a sad fact. I know from experience. You seem to be a nice, self-sacrificial person but you need to be a bit selfish sometimes and do whats' in your own interest too.

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I also doubt this is a "Muslim" issue.  Agree with most of the posts above that this is more a tradition/culture mis-match really.  These guys treat their women because "that's how it's done there" and any different to that and it makes him angry.  He can change from that but maybe he's not open to change and that's why he wants to leave you.  Seonai, some people just cannot change regardless of how much you try, it's a sad fact.  I know from experience.  You seem to be a nice, self-sacrificial person but you need to be a bit selfish sometimes and do whats' in your own interest too.

AGREED..... Seonai, hugs to you!!!!! There are many people on your side. Time to look for rainbows again.

XOXOXOXO

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Seonai - You seem like such a nice person. First of all I want to say never change yourself, change only works on the hit movie "Grease". And never settle for something that makes you unhappy, you deserve so much more than that. I carn't really think of much more to say. My knowledge is limited on relationships because of my age and all. But I hope to hear that you are smiling again very soon.

:o

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Hi SBK how are you? Thanks for your post. You and I talked a year or so ago about the "island boys" issue.

Well, I'm on an island too. 99.9% Muslim. Very quiet.

Violence - yes there has been several times. But I have to paint a better picture. My husband can be really sweet and loving albeit in HIS way. I have talked to him a lot about compromise and he has compromised a lot too. It's just his temper, I know, as you do, that shouting or being aggressive in my actions doesn't get me anywhere so I really try to be calm, but sometimes, usually when we are in company, something happens and maybe I say something a bit sarcastic to him. Then when we get home he goes nuts. Instead of 'banging' me - his words, he now smashes up stuff in our home. He can't seem to control it. If he feels he's lost face at all, even if it's imagined, he just goes mad.

Recently he's been going to the mosque more often and trying to be more of a family man. But he used to run a bar and be 'guy about town' so to speak..... so when he argues he always brings that up as if his male friends are egging him on. A lot of the men here get married and it's a family thing.... but they secretly resent it and group together to have drinking sessions etc. and get away from their wives and wives families. My husband doesn't drink luckily but he does like to hang out with the mates sometimes. I totally respect that, I don't mind.

The worst thing is, because it's a small place, I like to say "Hi honey, I'm home..... what did you do today...." and he just thinks there is no need to tell me about his day.

What do you think SBK?

Seonai

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This could be more complicated with the Muslim factor but maybe not.

Most violence stems from a failing in that persons life or a perceived failing from their point of view. You need to pinpoint where that comes from. It could be economic, or from comparing himself to friends or many things. If you can pinpoint something you then need to try and develop something positive around that problem and make improvement and perceived improvement. It could be something seemingly insignificant to you.

At the moment, the only release of tension is to break things.

If there are no obvious causes the other possibility is from outside pressure to do something. Often Thais will feel enormous pressure to help out friends and family and even though they know its demanding too much they will hate saying no and will bottle up a lot of frustration over it.

My husband hates saying no to even the most ridiculous requests and has an interesting tactic - they are told to ask me. So far very few have dared and it keeps him happy, he never has to say no.

Although I haven't been involved in many Thai arguments, I've mediated in quite a few. Thais on the whole are very open to reason, if you remember the problem is always in the third person. It's never you or you, are the problem. It should be there is a problem (not a person) and we are going to solve it; you disconnect the person from the problem.

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It's admirable of you to want to make your relationship work. My personal opinion, being a man, is that you should never have to put up with your partner telling you off for wanting to know about your life or how you feel.

His violent behaviour sounds very unhealthy and scary. The way you describe it, it looks like he uses it as a scare tactic against you, to show what he COULD do to you if he wasn't so nice. This is not acceptable. A person losing his/her temper once and hitting somebody is one thing, but violence repetetively is never ok. If you have children, will he be able to control himself from hitting them?

I know you want solutions for the problem at hand and not an advice to get out, but I also think you should consider that option if your attempts to solve the situation comes to nothing. People (you OR him) can only change so much.

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It's admirable of you to want to make your relationship work. My personal opinion, being a man, is that you should never have to put up with your partner telling you off for wanting to know about your life or how you feel.

His violent behaviour sounds very unhealthy and scary. The way you describe it, it looks like he uses it as a scare tactic against you, to show what he COULD do to you if he wasn't so nice. This is not acceptable. A person losing his/her temper once and hitting somebody is one thing, but violence repetetively is never ok. If you have children, will he be able to control himself from hitting them?

I know you want solutions for the problem at hand and not an advice to get out, but I also think you should consider that option if your attempts to solve the situation comes to nothing. People (you OR him) can only change so much.

I could not agree more (I am also a man, BTW). What happened to mutual respect and caring for each other? Throwing tantrums and smashing things is something kids may do, but it is not acceptable behavious for a grown up man (or woman, for that matter). Your husband sounds immature, and quite frankly a bit manipulative. If you can live with this kind of behaviour, go ahead, but if I were you, I would at prepare an exit strategy.

Sh1t, when I grew up it was considered cowardly to hit a girl, even if she was bigger than yourself.

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Hi!

I am a man, so please forgive the slight intrusion.

I have been with my Thai wife for over 3 years. Not perfect, but we talk a lot. And that heals and corrects our marriage.

What worries me is that you "compromise a lot", your words. After a while, it is only you doing the compromising and it gets old real fast!

You have not answered any of the questions about where you are and what kind of Muslim he is, nor if you are in his village, in a city, etc.

But the others advising you to go home for a while and think things through, is very wise and you should do it. Recharging your batteries works wonders for all of us who live outside our own culture. :o

Good luck!

Sniper (Ted)

I love him and we've been together 2 years, I compromise a LOT. I wear Muslim clothing I curb my instincts to speak too much. Live and breath Thai culture........

Any ideas out there ? Not "leave him and get a life" answers please. I am trying to understand this.

S

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Seonai

From experience, I think it is easier for farang to adapt to an Asian lifestyle than the other way around. But this does NOT mean that you have to do ALL the compromising.

Your husband has to understand also that you are from different cultures and that you have different needs. You have, in your words, compromised a lot, and now it's his turn to give a little.

Violent behaviour is not acceptable in any form. Of course you have your good moments. You would not have married him otherwise. But these violent outbursts are not a sign of anyone I would like to be spending the rest of my life with.

Thailand is not the place to seek psychiatric help, and I assume that he would not consider this even if it were available. But his anger issue is something that needs to be dealt with professionally. Believe me, anger management is not something that can be treated by an amateur.

The last time I saw my ex (Thai) was the first time he punched me in the face. He can rot in he// as far as I am concerned. One time is one time too many. That was what made me realise (after a difficult relationship and enduring his cheating ways) that I was MUCH better off without him.

Pilfer a bit of money and hide it away so that you have an escape route. Enough for you, and your childs, airfare back home is enough. Once home, your family will take you in, guaranteed. Blood is thicker than water.

If you decide to stay, I doubt whether you can change him. He sounds like a violent man (of course, butter wouldn't melt in his mouth in public) who does not deserve your love. If you are happy to live a life in silence, not having any decent conversation with the person closest to you, then do it. But if you want a life partner who you are going to share triumphs and tragedies with, then I think a big change is needed.

I apologise if this email sounds harsh. It is not meant to come across in that way at all.

I wish you luck.

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CMsally has some very valid points. My husband is a loving sweet guy and has, over the years, learned to deal with the pressures of his family. However, when we first married, the constant nagging and criticism of his mother would literally send him around the bend. He felt he couldn't talk back, probably hated his mother and then felt terrible guilt because he did. He has finally learned that his mother is just a critical person, that it isn't his problem it is hers.

Seonai, I have to ask, is this behavior recent? Did he show this before or has it been since he gave up the bar? Could he be feeling like a failure? I hate to say this as well, but if you can't get him to open up about what is really bothering him (and it must be something, I doubt it has anything to do with what you have done,it is just easier to take our anger out on the ones we love is all) then this will just escalate.

I suspect that he is getting alot of outside flak and doesn't know how to deal with it. Is there anyway possible for you to find out?

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Absulutely, SBK. This behaviour could easily be caused from an outside source. Parents, friends, other family members and employees. Not to mention members of the local community who this has nothing to do with.

Since giving up the bar, does he have another form of employment? Is there something else to keep him occupied? Are there any things that you can do together? I know island blokes all like to fish. Do you do stuff like that together? Fishing doesn't need lots of conversation, but when you come home, all you need to do is say 'That was a really great day. I enjoyed spending time with you'. Needs no more words than that.

There are many theories to his kind of behaviour, but I ask you to PLEASE, PLEASE be careful. A man who smashes 'things' up may just turn on YOU next.

I agree also with someones advice about going to a friends place for a few days at least. I am sure you have friends close by who will put you up for a while. Tell your husband why you are going:

Because you need to think about whether you want to be married to him any more.

Because you do not like the way he deals with his anger.

Because you feel that you give 100% to your marriage and it's about time he pulled his weight on the emotional side.

Tell him in a non emotional kind of way. No tears. No anger. Just calm and cool. If you drink, don't bring any of this up after having a few. It only makes the situation much worse than it is.

CMsally has some very valid points. My husband is a loving sweet guy and has, over the years, learned to deal with the pressures of his family. However, when we first married, the constant nagging and criticism of his mother would literally send him around the bend. He felt he couldn't talk back, probably hated his mother and then felt terrible guilt because he did. He has finally learned that his  mother is just a critical person, that it isn't his problem it is hers.

Seonai, I have to ask, is this behavior recent? Did he show this before or has it been since he gave up the bar? Could he be feeling like a failure? I hate to say this as well, but if you can't get him to open up about what is really bothering him (and it must be something, I doubt it has anything to do with what you have done,it is just easier to take our anger out on the ones we love is all) then this will just escalate.

I suspect that he is getting alot of outside flak and doesn't know how to deal with it. Is there anyway possible for you to find out?

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Wise words sbk. Seonai, it sounds like his behaviour may be down to a few things. Firstly it's probably learned as a way of (not) coping. Often people who have anger issues use their temper because it's the only way they know to communicate and get what they want - or at least that's what they think it does. That's why it can be hard sometimes for popele to let go of this learned behaviour; they think it actually serves them well. What they need to learn instead is how to be assertive, rather than agressive. People with anger issues are rarely assertive. They feel powerless, and anger is the only way they know how to wield power. Of course, we know that it's not really power at all. Okay, maybe sometimes you can terrify or blackmail someone into getting what you want, but you're not really winning, are you?

Also, we all have needs in life. To feel secure, the need for intimacy, the need to have status and control etc. If what sbk suggests is true - your husband's behaviour escalated when he stopped running his business, then he may feel a loss of status and goals, and even control over his life. Not excusing his behaviour, but if he has never learned how to cope with life's ups and downs in a healthy way, then he will fall back on a negative learned behaviour. With some it may be drinking. Others may withdraw and become depressed. Your husband sounds like he falls back on anger, and takes his pent up frustrations out on you. If he feels he cannot have status in the community, he'll d&mn well have it in his own home. Hence controlling you.

The good news is that people CAN change. But they have to want to. There will be times that your husband's 'attention gates' are open. Times when you can talk rationally and he will be open to listening. Then you can explain how you are feeling. Given his temperament and seeming over-sensitivity I would avoid any accusational or emotive language. Talk generally like 'Right now I am feeling like...'. Also, ask his how he is feeling 'Are you happy right now? Because it seems that since the bar you don't seem too happy with the way your life is going? Would you like to feel better? Is it something we can work on together?'. You say that your husband has his tender moments, these are the time to broach things - when his defences are down. If you do it at the wrong time he will simply clam up, deny everything and become angry. Get him to talk about how he woud like his life and relationship with you to be. All too often we ruminate negatively. It can make a big difference just to get someone to start thinking how they would like things to be, rather than imagining how they fear they will turn out.

Hope this helps. I have known people like your husband before. And they HAVE changed. It's been a long learning process for them and their partners (one was an Asian guy who did go to see a psychotherapist). Not always an easy one, but a journey moving in the right direction, nonetheless. If you want any more info on any of the above feel free to pm me... (I'm training to be a therapist).

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Violence - yes there has been several times.

there is only one course of action ........... and that is to leave that sorry apology for a man , that wimp , that bully.

leave him and let him be the laughing stock of his community for having his woman walk out on him. he deserves to lose a lot more than face.

it might give other women down there some sensible ideas too.

(unless of course you are one of those women who would rather remain forever in a violent relationship , putting up with the violence , and accepting his apologies time after time after time , hoping it will get better , but knowing deep down inside that it never will.)

i doubt if you would get any sympathy from any of his family or friends down where you live for the violence you suffer.

and i make no apologies for being so blunt.

but you should see the warnings and ask yourself just why you are staying and putting up with such abuse.

there are plenty of decent man around , of all faiths.

good luck.

Edited by taxexile
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There are a lot of posts here, seemingly looking for reasons why your husband is the way he is.

I would like to know more about your and his situation.

How old are you both?

Has he changed since you were married, or has he always been uncommunicative?

He goes out with his friends, are they mostly married or single?

Do you have money worries?

Who inputs the most financially, you or him?

Does he work?

Do you work?

Have you ever had a relationship with another man in the same area prior to meeting your husband?

Does your son from previous marriage live with you or just visit?

Has your husband lost interest in your womanly attributes? (can't think of a better way to phrase it)

Has he ever actually hit you?

Do you live in fear of him?

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Hi all you great folks out there, too many to reply to individually. Thanks and double thanks for your valuable comments. It's kind of making me feel really silly now that we're talking about it in such detail but I'll try to answer some of the questions. Firstly, I am an educated writer and editor and can hold my own in the world but have always wanted a sort of cosy family home and a guy that I could chat to etc about anything. So, don't laugh, I guess I just fell into this situation when he asked me to marry him. I'm very sensitive but I also speak up for myself when I feel thwarted I think. I have a long relationship with Thailand and feel somehow part of the culture here.

And so to your questions:

We are both between 35-41 years old.

Yes he has hit me - about six times, one serious.

He hasn't changed much since we were married but I sense that the bar was his way of feeling like the Lord of the Manner - and I did try to change that because I wanted us to have a family life. But there are double messages in there where he has started contacting his parents a lot since he met me and going to the mosque a lot and being more 'family' like - all this done by him, not me. But when he argues he seems to feel I've cramped his style.

He goes out with friends to chat - most are married but would never take their wives out for a drink. Wives stay at home.

I input most financially and I never bring this up. I know it is a BIG one for a man.

He works a little with small wood projects and is most happy when he's working, feels useless otherwise.

I work as a freelance writer.

No I have never had a relationship with anyone near here.

My son came to live with us four months ago and my husband wanted him to come.

No he hasn't lost interest in my 'womanly attributes'

I live in fear because I can't get angry about anything..... you know, have a bad day and bang a door...... if I did that I'd set him off and I'm too scared.

He just seems really angry about something..... once he had a knife at my throat and I was screaming to the neighbours and no one came. I thought I was a gonner. But it sounds so silly now, I know you'll all get mad at me, but I thought/think I love the guy...... he's part of my life.

If it's any consolation, I know of several Farang men who this has happened to with Thai women !!!!!

I genuinely appreciate your comments. It might help someone else out there too one day.

Seonai

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Yes he has hit me - about six times, one serious.

Just my 2 pennies worth, get RID...once violent always the same a leopard can never change his spots. Sounds to me like you are a little stuck. Life is what you make it and nobody needs aggro.

Me and the missus sometimes fall out, but how hard would I be if I ever struck her.... nobody needs that stuff......nevr lay your hand on a female, no matter how much angry you may be.

I take it you are a farang, have you spoke about this to your family? If so I bet they are not happy.

Stay safe and I hope it works out for the best for you.

TAF

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