Constitution Court Acquits Thai Democrat

[whybother]

Ha ha are they corrupt. If one party get banned over 3,000 Bht and the other survives on the misuse of 29,000,000 not to mention the gift that they received from TPI that is worth many millions of dollars but which does not seem to get to the court anyhow than you know who is the most corrupt. But than again: If you are a great conman you will be inline to become PM. Conmen are hot in Thailand. You can become politician or judge. So all parties are corrupted.

TPI by the way, screwed their creditors for billions of dollars with their NPL's so you see who is the most corrupted here.

Inventing more myths? Which party got banned over 3000 baht?

[Siripon]

<br />

<br />My understanding is that they survived on a technicality.<br /><br />Will we ever know if the offense was as suggested.<br /><br />What I wanted to know is did they or did they not commit the offense of not playing fairly.<br /><br />Are they as corrupt as the other parties that have been dissolved?<br />

<br />Are they corrupt? Every Thai party in existence is corrupt to some degree. The Democrats are no different.<br /><br />Are they *AS* corrupt? This court proceeding wouldn't have answered that question no matter what the result. This was simply one example of one possible case of corruption. What you wanted to know was never going to be answered.<br /><br />The only important thing from all of this is that the Thai people accept it and move on. There will be an election early next year if we accept Abhisit at his word. Hopefully, all the mudslinging will stop after that.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Ha ha are they corrupt. If one party get banned over 3,000 Bht and the other survives on the misuse of 29,000,000 not to mention the gift that they received from TPI that is worth many millions of dollars but which does not seem to get to the court anyhow than you know who is the most corrupt. But than again: If you are a great conman you will be inline to become PM. Conmen are hot in Thailand. You can become politician or judge. So all parties are corrupted.

TPI by the way, screwed their creditors for billions of dollars with their NPL's so you see who is the most corrupted here.

No party got banned over 3,000 baht, Samak had to resign as PM over payment for cooking shows, but he had the right to stand again for PM, which he did, but Thaksin betrayed him and ordered his MPs to vote for Somchai instead.

[whybother]

Ofcourse this was expected, other party viseversa. But not the Reds are the losers here, Thailand as a whole in my opinion. This is about independent justice and democracy. If you are on the PAD side in this case then you are nothing better then the TRT. And yes, let me make it clear PAD or TRT both have pros and cons. But what government the Thai people chooses, it is their choosen party and government, so we have to live with it.

My only hope is that this and future (whatever side) governments will be there for all Thai people and not just a selected group. Progress have to be made on all fronts, nobody left out.

I hope I may enjoy Thailand much much longer and wish a lot of wisdom for every Thai party.

"If you are on the PAD side in this case then you are nothing better then the TRT."

What if you're not on the PAD side or or TRT side?

[hammered]

Phew, what a relief. I dread to think of the ructions which might have ensued had Abhisit been forced to resign as PM and succeeded by an incompetent clown in the Samak/Somchai mould.

+1 A relief for now, but have we heard from the reds yet?

What of the goons who will be no doubt be out on the streets screaming scandal and corruption, trying to lull all the lackies into causing more mayhem in BK

One can only imagine the extreme responses and new wave of lies that will be spewed forth. Maybe if no, or very little response from Thakkies lackies it could be seen that the reds really are loosing ground support?

I think the reds have an agenda uncertain gathering organised for tomorrow at Democracy monument

[ChiangMaiFun]

surprise, surprise... so what's the point of an election commission? answer = none

[hammered]

Ofcourse this was expected, other party viseversa. But not the Reds are the losers here, Thailand as a whole in my opinion. This is about independent justice and democracy. If you are on the PAD side in this case then you are nothing better then the TRT. And yes, let me make it clear PAD or TRT both have pros and cons. But what government the Thai people chooses, it is their choosen party and government, so we have to live with it.

My only hope is that this and future (whatever side) governments will be there for all Thai people and not just a selected group. Progress have to be made on all fronts, nobody left out.

I hope I may enjoy Thailand much much longer and wish a lot of wisdom for every Thai party.

"If you are on the PAD side in this case then you are nothing better then the TRT."

What if you're not on the PAD side or or TRT side?

You are in the majority

[csolgosz]

My understanding is that they survived on a technicality.

Will we ever know if the offense was as suggested.

What I wanted to know is did they or did they not commit the offense of not playing fairly.

Are they as corrupt as the other parties that have been dissolved?

Just do some research on Suthep and Newin and you will know. Stop any second Thai in the street anywhere and ask if they are honest men...

Let's do a little rearranging of the article.

"Thailand's Election Commission (EC) in April called for the Democrats -- the country's oldest party -- to be abolished over the accusations, as well as a separate case alleging an undeclared political donation." "The Democrats were accused of paying 23 million baht to advertising firms, despite having permission to spend only 19 million on billboard marketing." (Note that it is Thailand's Election Commission that is asking for this based on actual figures... In a Western country, their opinion would carry some weight.)

"Thefiling by the Electoral Commission is unconstitutional because the process wasnot done properly," said judge Udomsak Nitimontree, reading out the ruling at the court in Bangkok. Democrats' adviser Chuan Leekpai told the court in his closing statement on behalf of the party, "The decision was made when there was pressure, threats against the EC. Protesters carried coffins in front of the building,"

However, "prosecutor Kitinan Thuchpramook insisted the EC's complaint was made 'with legitimacy and care, with no bias against the party and not under any threat'." So they took the word of the Democrat's adviser (a former Democrat PM) over the EC's legal counsel.

&lt;deleted&gt; and more &lt;deleted&gt;. The whole political situation in the country stinks and that is the end of it. Who gives a rat's toss bag about what judges decide in this country? It ain't worth a pinch of soi dog poo...

Edited November 29, 2010 by csolgosz

[ozzieovaseas]

Phew, what a relief. I dread to think of the ructions which might have ensued had Abhisit been forced to resign as PM and succeeded by an incompetent clown in the Samak/Somchai mould.

+1 A relief for now, but have we heard from the reds yet?

What of the goons who will be no doubt be out on the streets screaming scandal and corruption, trying to lull all the lackies into causing more mayhem in BK

One can only imagine the extreme responses and new wave of lies that will be spewed forth. Maybe if no, or very little response from Thakkies lackies it could be seen that the reds really are loosing ground support?

I think the reds have an agenda uncertain gathering organised for tomorrow at Democracy monument

time to get outta dodge then?

[webfact]

Army Chief Denies Meddling in Democrat Dissolution Case

The army chief denies influencing the Constitution Court's review of the dissolution case against the ruling Democrat Party.

Army chief General Prayuth Chan ocha stated the military has never intervened in the Constitution Court's trial on the dissolution case against the ruling Democrat Party as related procedures are within the scope of the law and the country's judicial system.

As for the handling of possible protests after the ruling, Prayuth said the matter is under the responsibility of the police, but the army is ready to lend a hand when requested.

The general also stated security measures for Constitution Court judges are also the duty of the police and help has not been sought from the army on the issue.

Speculation is ripe that if Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, the Democrat leader, is disqualified from his post, his deputy in charge of national security Suthep Thaugsuban will be named his replacement.

The army chief said he is ready to work with Suthep. He affirmed a good relationship with the current administration, given its cooperation with the military during the recent political riots.

The army chief also insisted he has never had any thought about staging a military coup, saying his duty is only to oversee the people's security and prevent offenses on the Monarchy.

He then urged the public to stop speculating about a coup and affirmed the army has never taken up arms against the people.

He said the alleged killings of red-shirt protesters during the April and May riots by state officials must be proven through the legal process.

-- Tan Network 2010-11-29

[rubl]

surprise, surprise... so what's the point of an election commission? answer = none

Care to explain this surprising insight in the matter, or should I just accept it for what it's worth ( = nothing) ?

[tim armstrong]

I am glad the Democrats survived this case, but they still face the one regarding the 250M Baht from TPI. Could the current ruling have any impact on the pending one?

Also the Democrats were not acquitted (Note to mods re. topic title) but the case was dismissed. Is there any chance that somebody could come up with a way to re-file the charges at a later time?

If the case was dismissed, it cannot be reinstated later. A different case could, but by then there will have been an election. Good news for the PM. Hope he stays around.

[webfact]

Constitution Court president among two minority judges in Democrat's case

Constitution Court President Chat Chonlaworn was among the two judges who voted against the Democrat Party in the dissolution case.

The other judge is Udomsak Nitimontree.

The four other judges, who voted in favour of the Democrat, are Boonsong Kulbuppha, Jaral Phakdeethanakul, Supoj Khaimuk and Nurak Praneet.

-- The Nation 2010-11-29

[ChiangMaiFun]

Constitution Court president among two minority judges in Democrat's case

Constitution Court President Chat Chonlaworn was among the two judges who voted against the Democrat Party in the dissolution case.

The other judge is Udomsak Nitimontree.

The four other judges, who voted in favour of the Democrat, are Boonsong Kulbuppha, Jaral Phakdeethanakul, Supoj Khaimuk and Nurak Praneet.

-- The Nation 2010-11-29

4-2? not exactly a resounding endorsement is it? at least 2 had the balls to support the EC which is there to ensure 'fair play'.

[Piengrudee]

LOL the corrupted Thai courts do not even hide their incompetence and double standards. Although double standards??? No standards. A law retroactively applied on a TRT case. A PM (Samak) sent home for a mere 3,000 baht in ingredients. But when it comes to the party that the army put in power and who refuses to held an election they would not win, Not the new law made by the coup makers applies but the old law. How convenient, If it comes to their own ultra low standards the court judges have no trouble banning Youtube movies that reveal the truth about the standards that the Thai elites adhere too. Instead of locking all the judges up and throwing away the key, judges are taken serious and are rewarded for criminal behaviour. Thailand is on par with North Korea, Zimbabwe, Egypt or Iraq. There is no democracy the courts are corrupted and the army leaders crooks.

Be careful with your words. You can go to jail with such comments about the court.

[Arkady]

I am glad the Democrats survived this case, but they still face the one regarding the 250M Baht from TPI. Could the current ruling have any impact on the pending one?

Also the Democrats were not acquitted (Note to mods re. topic title) but the case was dismissed. Is there any chance that somebody could come up with a way to re-file the charges at a later time?

No chance that the same charges can be re-filed later. The EC got its bite at the apple and failed to do it properly. The TPI case is a different type of issue but it has no clean money trail (to my understanding) and is thus "he says, she says".

The other end of the case, the misappropriation of shareholders' funds at TPI was dropped by the DSI and the SEC declared there was no corporate governance case to answer after its own investigation. Prachai, who was responsible at TPI at time, has refused to give any evidence at all which doesn't help a not very convincing case. Intuitively it seems more probable that the Dems were indeed involved in some monkey business over the TPI cash but the evidence trail looks even thinner than in the very small beer Messiah case that was dismissed by the Constitutional Court today which seemed entirely frivolous. It is also quite possible that there is a similar procedural problem in the TPI case that could also lead to it being throw out of court. Nice try by Pheua Thai to derail the court proceedings with all the ohmigod videos but it backfired just like the measly B2 million cake box bribe to the Supreme Court.

[rubl]

Constitution Court president among two minority judges in Democrat's case

Constitution Court President Chat Chonlaworn was among the two judges who voted against the Democrat Party in the dissolution case.

The other judge is Udomsak Nitimontree.

The four other judges, who voted in favour of the Democrat, are Boonsong Kulbuppha, Jaral Phakdeethanakul, Supoj Khaimuk and Nurak Praneet.

-- The Nation 2010-11-29

4-2? not exactly a resounding endorsement is it? at least 2 had the balls to support the EC which is there to ensure 'fair play'.

At least six voted as they saw fit taking laws and E.C. rules, and proceeding regulations into account. The fact that we have a 4 - 2 vote simply means that some of those may need further refinement. Case dismissed.

[whybother]

4-2? not exactly a resounding endorsement is it? at least 2 had the balls to support the EC which is there to ensure 'fair play'.

Or, alternatively, 4 judges had the balls to stand up to the red shirt threats.

[hammered]

Constitution Court president among two minority judges in Democrat's case

Constitution Court President Chat Chonlaworn was among the two judges who voted against the Democrat Party in the dissolution case.

The other judge is Udomsak Nitimontree.

The four other judges, who voted in favour of the Democrat, are Boonsong Kulbuppha, Jaral Phakdeethanakul, Supoj Khaimuk and Nurak Praneet.

-- The Nation 2010-11-29

4-2? not exactly a resounding endorsement is it? at least 2 had the balls to support the EC which is there to ensure 'fair play'.

It is more of a majority than old Bushy got in the to count or not count case;)

By the way no judge ruled on the veracity of the case. A majority found it incorrectly filed of which we await further details which likely wont make it into English press until tomorrow or even later. Resorting to Thai language sources will be more useful

[Siripon]

What hot air is produced by the Pheua Thai MPs! They really should desist and stop adding to global warming. A few days ago one MP claimed Apisit had contacted foreign universities for a job after being banned,another said after the dissolution of the Democrats a new party consisting of MPs across the spectrum would form a national party for reconciliation and another MP said Thaksin was sure the party would be banned -implying they are naturally guilty.

Nonsense all round.

[Thai at Heart]

Is there an extended verdict, or is it simply a case of case dismissed? Fascinating system.

Would love to understand how on a black and white issue of the case being submitted correctly under law, 2 judges managed to disagree. As a suggestion, verdicts like this should probably be kept as state secrets for 30 years just to stop the controversy. Letting the people know that 2 out of 6 voted against simply shows how apparently divided the judiciary is. All we need to know is that the result is guilty, not guilty or case dismissed.

If this was politics, 2 out of 6 voted against the Dems. Probably about representative of the country

[ChiangMaiFun]

4-2? not exactly a resounding endorsement is it? at least 2 had the balls to support the EC which is there to ensure 'fair play'.

Or, alternatively, 4 judges had the balls to stand up to the red shirt threats.

anyway bring on an election and stop all this nonsense - case dimissed on a technicallity not aquitted - this does not help national unity

[hammered]

What hot air is produced by the Pheua Thai MPs! They really should desist and stop adding to global warming. A few days ago one MP claimed Apisit had contacted foreign universities for a job after being banned,another said after the dissolution of the Democrats a new party consisting of MPs across the spectrum would form a national party for reconciliation and another MP said Thaksin was sure the party would be banned -implying they are naturally guilty.

Nonsense all round.

There are an increasingly worried group of MPs in PTP who think Thaksin is fighting a losing game and who dont want to be out of power for much longer. PTP really needs to win Aytuhaya, Korat, Surin and Khon Kaen in the by-elections. Luckliy for them all four by-election fall in Isaan strongholds or Ayuthaya where they have baronial control. If one were in say the north right now it could be a lot more interesting. Still they need to hold win all four to reverse a disastrous few months or at least counterbalance it to some extent.

[virtualtraveller]

I bet that if the establishment weren't desperately trying to keep Thaksin at bay, and the EC weren't so zealously trying to clean up Thai elections, or if the coup hadn't happened, or the Red Shirts hadn't rubbished the courts and pressured them, then the verdicts may well have been different.

The courts have several options to deal with this, and given that the Red Shirts pressure resulted in the EC raising this in the first place, plus their attempts to discredit the courts with the lunchbox-gate or video-gate I'm not surprised with today's verdict.

The judges are quite correct in dismissing the case, given that the EC initially felt that there was no case, and therefore it absolves them of the trickier job of considering the other charges.

Some instigators (possibly red shirts) caught the judges with their pants down in the video-scandal, and it's certainly changed the public perception of the courts, but ultimately it backfired. The judges choose a verdict that is technically sound, and though it doesn't bring closure it does pass the hot potato. If there hadn't been an attempt to discredit the judges ahead of the trial, they may well have accept it was a lawful case and ruled on the other charges.

Remember, Thaksin got off on a 'technicality' in 2001, so did Sanoh recently. You can't fault the verdict, though you know it wasn't entirely a full job.

[animatic]

LOL the corrupted Thai courts do not even hide their incompetence and double standards. Although double standards??? No standards.

A law retroactively applied on a TRT case. A PM (Samak) sent home for a mere 3,000 baht in ingredients. But when it comes to the party that the army put in power and who refuses to held an election they would not win, Not the new law made by the coup makers applies but the old law.

How convenient, If it comes to their own ultra low standards the court judges have no trouble banning Youtube movies that reveal the truth about the standards that the Thai elites adhere too. Instead of locking all the judges up and throwing away the key, judges are taken serious and are rewarded for criminal behaviour.

Thailand is on par with North Korea, Zimbabwe, Egypt or Iraq. There is no democracy the courts are corrupted and the army leaders crooks.

You are entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. Not one single credible statement in the whole first paragraph.

Agreed it seems a bit more like perpetual myth propagation.

TRT was tried under a law not on the books at time of infraction.

In this Dem case they never got to decide on the law at the time or a new one to try the case under,

and that was PART of the reason for the technical failure of the prosecutions case.

The conflicting possible laws also caused a mistake by EC and prosecuters.

Just a couple of points it was never about "3,000 baht of ingredients",

but 5,000 baht PER episode that Samak got and said he paid his driver.

But again it is not about the sum, but the conflict of interest and his LYING in court.

The rest is just boiler plate bashing.

[jayboy]

You're right of course... be careful though otherwise you will have JDinasia trying to get you banned for 'impuning judges'

[/quote

That's his aim though most are on to it now.Why some members don't focus on give and take discussion, rather than trying to get other members banned I have no idea.There was a member, now banned, following similar tactics re lese majeste.

In this case however the language used was very extreme, and personally I wouldn't want to be associated with it.However temperate and discrete criticism of the courts is reasonable.There have been a number of good articles to this effect in The Nation and elsewhere recently.

The problem in my view is when the judiciary becomes mixed up in matters which aren't really its province.Interesting in this context to read UK editorials following a court decision to re-run an election because the successful candidate had made various allegations (the details don't matter) deemed to be untrue.The editorials (I summarise) basically thought it was a very retrograde step when courts started sticking their noses in to matters which were essentially the province of the British electorate.The feeling was that the courts involvement in these matters should be very limited and specific, really just matters of fraud.

[hammered]

Is there an extended verdict, or is it simply a case of case dismissed? Fascinating system.

Would love to understand how on a black and white issue of the case being submitted correctly under law, 2 judges managed to disagree. As a suggestion, verdicts like this should probably be kept as state secrets for 30 years just to stop the controversy. Letting the people know that 2 out of 6 voted against simply shows how apparently divided the judiciary is. All we need to know is that the result is guilty, not guilty or case dismissed.

If this was politics, 2 out of 6 voted against the Dems. Probably about representative of the country

There will be a full written explanation of the verdict. There always is. However when it reaches English who knows. However, remember which law to use was moot and it is likely here the disagreement occurred.

[Insight]

/edit - removed: quoted wrong post.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Insight

[webfact]

PM Pleads Public to Accept Court's Verdict

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has talked to the press for the first time after hearing the Constitution Court verdict on the Democrat dissolution case. He pleads with the public to accept the court's decision and denies any double standard in the verdict.

-- Tan Network 2010-11-29

[Siripon]

What hot air is produced by the Pheua Thai MPs! They really should desist and stop adding to global warming. A few days ago one MP claimed Apisit had contacted foreign universities for a job after being banned,another said after the dissolution of the Democrats a new party consisting of MPs across the spectrum would form a national party for reconciliation and another MP said Thaksin was sure the party would be banned -implying they are naturally guilty.

Nonsense all round.

There are an increasingly worried group of MPs in PTP who think Thaksin is fighting a losing game and who dont want to be out of power for much longer. PTP really needs to win Aytuhaya, Korat, Surin and Khon Kaen in the by-elections. Luckliy for them all four by-election fall in Isaan strongholds or Ayuthaya where they have baronial control. If one were in say the north right now it could be a lot more interesting. Still they need to hold win all four to reverse a disastrous few months or at least counterbalance it to some extent.

Just the other day a Pheua Thai MP was agonizing how hard it was to be in the Opposition, the Democrats are the only party prepared to play the role of an opposition party in a democracy, acting as a checks and balances, the rest just want their snouts in the trough full time.

[whybother]

4-2? not exactly a resounding endorsement is it? at least 2 had the balls to support the EC which is there to ensure 'fair play'.

Or, alternatively, 4 judges had the balls to stand up to the red shirt threats.

anyway bring on an election and stop all this nonsense - case dimissed on a technicallity not aquitted - this does not help national unity

Yes, I would have preferred a definite verdict, but there'll be elections next year. And there's by-elections in a couple of weeks to throw some more light on the views out there.