90 Day Report In Nong Khai For Phuket-Based Ed Visa Extension

[saanya]

Hi,

I have an extension on an ED Visa. The extension lasts until mid-2011. I stay in Nong Khai most of the time and fly down to Phuket when it's time for my 90 day report, then return here. Most of the time I drop off the written class work that I scan each week for my teacher to review. Basically the process has been working great since my wife takes care of the other part of my course in terms of spoken word and vocabulary.

But now we wonder if I need to report to Phuket for the 90 day report or if Nong Khai Immigration is possible. (not through the now infamous "Mr. Happy" of course, we already know about him).

One thing I know is that when I report in Phuket is simply have no issues ever, I write everything in Thai and speak to them in Thai and we usually just chit chat about random things as they issue this or that stamp. I am usually out of there in less than 10 minutes.

Is it too far fetched to think Nong Khai Immigration will have an issue with me using the typical form and just reporting there?

My wife and I plan to get our marriage paperwork before my extension based on ED visa expires so in the mean time it's justabout saving money on the flight from Udon to Phuket & back.

If it's too risky or seems way out of line I'll just pre-book as usual on Air Asia and do the normal Phuket report.

saanya

[lopburi3]

As you seem to be attending a local Phuket school expect there would be heartburn if you tried using that for an extension of stay in Nong Khai (which appears to be where you should have been doing it if where you live). If the school is authorized mail study perhaps it would fly but if not suspect some problems. Best to talk with the facility you use I suspect.

[Thanyaburi Mac]

You might phone Immigration @ Phuket and ask if they accept mail-in 90-day reports, seems like that'd solve your present commuting situation.

Mac

[lopburi3]

I believe he is talking about 90 day extensions of stay.

Edit: but I appear to be wrong from what he says about having an extension until middle of next year. But suspect he may be wrong on that as it appears to be a normal study of Thai language so 90 day extensions would be normal.

[saanya]

I believe he is talking about 90 day extensions of stay.

Edit: but I appear to be wrong from what he says about having an extension until middle of next year. But suspect he may be wrong on that as it appears to be a normal study of Thai language so 90 day extensions would be normal.

Hi Lopburi,

I divided my response in two sections for future readers:

A. 90 Day reports/ TM-47 http://www.thaivisa.com/tm47-example.html

-in this case I am filling out Form TM-47 as per usual every 90 days. It's not an extension of stay and happens to say so in the stamp they apply.

"This is not an extension of stay, Please notify your address again on ____________, signed _______, Date _________."

It appears my best option is to now call Phuket Immigration and ask if they'll accept the mail-in Form TM-47 and on what basis, e.g. will they mail me back the bottom section or just keep it on file or maybe do nothing and wait for my next report and say I overstayed and they don't have any records of my mail-in even though it was registered mail. : ) Guess this all dpends on how much fun I want to have with two government institutions (Post Office *and* Immigration).

B. Extensions of Stay - TM-7: Education Visa

At the two schools I attended, we all get 1 year extensions using TM-7.

I am not sure what the "norm" is and being here a while I know there's no such thing as a "norm" and there never will be, -but my experience is that once a year I renew the ED Visa by way of completing a TM-7 Extension Of Stay http://www.thailandvisaguide.com/forms-downloads/tm7-form-for-extension-of-stay-in-thailand/ after my language school procures the necessary documents for/from the Thai Education Ministry.

I supply Immigration the documents from my school, the ED Ministry, and the TM-7. The TM-7 allows you to state the amount of days you wish to request. I normally request about 280-310 days but never the full 365.

[lopburi3]

Very irregular from all reports I have seen. Normal extension of stay for part time language study is only 90 days per application and new paperwork is required to obtain a new one every 90 days for most people.

[saanya]

Very irregular from all reports I have seen. Normal extension of stay for part time language study is only 90 days per application and new paperwork is required to obtain a new one every 90 days for most people.

Based on the reports you have seen, -are you referring to Phuket though? It's not irregular at all, it's within the law and very very very very very very normal. : )

Is this information coming from the Thaivisa commercial advertising relationship with Walen language school on the site?, -the info you have provided, in the past, you noted you were referencing his post on the matter and furnished his link and stated it was likely the authoritative information on the matter. (which I disagreed with then and now). So Mac, if you are reading this, it's OK, I've read all your inputs and you can pass on this one. : )

-I can point you to about 400 people in the last 3 years that have attended the two schools I have, as well as all the students at the other major school. ALL of us on Phuket are doing it this way. We pay on average 35-45K baht in installments for year-round classes, minimum 4 hours per week. Some of us pay about 65-70K or more a year for one-on-one home classes with the same schedule frequency. We do our 90-day reports and we are fine.

It's not to say you are wrong or using bad information or your statements are in error. But how is it irregluar? Can you show me where it is within the current Thai legal definitions at both the Education Ministry and Thai Immigration?

- I hate to differ with you Lopburi, -you have been a moderator for quite some time and have quite a bit of information exposure, and I've had the benefit of your advice countless times.

But I can't help but to ask, -other than the 'reports you have seen' is there a difference in the Thai laws on this? I'd like us to resolve this difference of experience because if I hadn't known this many people on Phuket while being in school for so long, I would not bother to debate what you define as "irregular".

We've had once a year "school anniversaries" at Central Festival's bowling alley, countless birthdays and welcome/farewell parties, sometimes with entire families enrolling for the year, -we can't have learned this much about the Thai language, our visa procedures and the overall picture and be told that what we and the other two schools are experiencing is irregular.

I would rather settle on the fact that perhaps things are done differently on Phuket, and that the lucrative and highly competitive business of running language schools might be informing some of why things are different on Phuket.

In my conversations with the staff at the Ed Ministry (I had to change schools and the previous school had lost all it's records), that they are the ones who define how long you are to be accepted to be enrolled in a Thai language course.

Immigration simply concurs with their acceptance of your application, and do their own due diligence where relevant laws apply, e.g. checking their own computers for flags on your passport, information you submit on your forms, and if the paperwork from the ED Ministry and the language school is complete when presented at the time you present it, and they then electronically scan & file their copies and physically store them.

If they need to, they will call the ED Ministry and/or the language school if it's not too crowded. I've seen her get quite upset at some students who present paperwork that's not complete, -even demanding that "if the proper papers are not here in 30 minutes we will deny your extension".

My fellow students deal with staff at Phuket Immigration, sometimes the ranking chief has to be summoned for a decision on this or that issue -she really seems to know her stuff, and I highly doubt she'd be doing anything "irregular". Long stays based on education are the norm and outside the "packaged courses for x amount of baht per 90 days" I have seen in the marketing materials of some schools.

What would you recommend as far as finding out the logic here? Is there some other reference aside from Mac's post?

-saanya

[lopburi3]

I have not posted any information from any sponsor or made reference to such that I recall. What I have done is read posts on this and I have not seen one year extensions of stay reported for part time education at language schools - for University study yes. It may be another 'island' policy but have not noted others speaking about it if that is the case. I also find it interesting, to say the least, that you mention not requesting the normal 365 day extension of stay. That would make it seem there is some local policy in effect also.

[Mario2008]

Saanya, while the rules allow for up to 1 year extension of stay based on education and indeed it would not be against the rules to issue a 1 year extension based on studying at a language school, the daily practise is that only persons studying at a regular elementary or high school or university get a 1 year extension.

So far i have only seen a (recent) report of it being otherwise from a person studying in the area of Hua Hin (not sure if it was Hua Hin itself), the extension done through the school with not the correct payment of the extension fee, which should by 1,900 baht per extension. The norm is that one gets only an extension of 90 days when studying at a language school.

I do notice that your school fees are higher than would be the norm of around 30,000 baht per year and often even less.

Language schools don't set the duration of your permission to stay, that is up to immigration. They can give up to 1 year. I think that many language schools would prefer to have their students a 1 year extension of stay, that would simply be a good promotion of their course.

[Tod Daniels]

FWIW: This topic came up once before, so I called and talked to the foreign owners/directors (whatever) at two different private thai language schools based in Phuket. Mostly just to be nosy . ..

They both said, once their students have their first single entry 90 day ED visa, getting a one year extension of stay based on education and studying thai at a private thai language school thru the Phuket Immigration office was the 'norm', rather than the exception. I know strange huh?

Conversely it is just the opposite here in Bangkok and in Pattaya, 90 day extensions of stay are norm and usually all theyll hand out for continuing education for attending a private thai language school.

Unless I am mistaken (which I could be ), I believe 'forum sponsor' Mac Walen early on at his Pattaya location did have a few of his students receive extensions of stay for a year. However, from the recent reports Ive heard it seems they dialed that back to the 'usual' 90 day extensions now.

As Macs ad says Phuket coming soon it will be good to see what, if anything, his students in Phuket will say or receive as far as extensions of stay once he's up and running down there.

P/S: As far as the O/P dpoing his 90 day reporting in Nong Khai, more and more private thai language schools now offer online classes for people to study thai but who don't live near the location of their school. Perhaps saying you attend online would fly, dunno. It certainly wouldn't set you back to try, all they could possibly say to you would be; "Cannot!" . I also agree call Phuket and see if you can mail it in to them.

Edited December 2, 2010 by tod-daniels

[Tod Daniels]

Sorry I got timed out and couldn’t edit the previous post.

In perusing the T/V Thai Language Sub Forum I saw a post by none other than Mac Walen himself , which would seem to indicate his Phuket branch has just opened.

Maybe in a few months we’ll hear from some of the students about their experiences dealing with Phuket Immigrations.

BTW: Lest there be some confusion; other than being a former student at the Walen School ‘O Thai, I have abso-tively posi-lutely NO affiliation with Mac or his schools .

I’m just offering out info as I’ve come across it

FWIW: I tried to find the info on the two schools I phoned in Phuket, but I've got more private thai language school stuff squirreled away on this p/c and couldn't be bothered to sift thru it all

[phuketrichard]

We pay on average 35-45K baht in installments for year-round classes

MY god? plus u opay how much for the visa?

Its seems very expensive. Schools i talked to were asking 35,000/year for a class that would allow u to have the ed visa

[Tod Daniels]

We pay on average 35-45K baht in installments for year-round classes

MY god? plus u opay how much for the visa?

Its seems very expensive. <SNIP>

While I could be worng <sic> err wrong; I believe the O/P might have meant that they pay in TOTAL about 35-45K baht via an installment payment plan during the year; which at the end EQUALS out to be the figure he mentions.

When I called the two schools down there I mentioned in an earlier post, I seem to remember that 35-45K baht seemed to be close to the going tuition rate for a year long study program in Phuket at a private thai language school.

The cost of a students extension of stay would be the same whether the extension of stay was granted for the usual 90 days or if Phuket Immigrations gave them a year's extension; 1900baht

[saanya]

Basically what Tod-Daniels did in effect confirms what I have been saying all along.

"once their students have their first single entry 90 day ED visa, getting a one year extension of stay based on education and studying thai at a private thai language school thru the Phuket Immigration office was the 'norm', rather than the exception"

Please, on this one, take me at my word. It's not "irregular" on Phuket. No worries if you are slightly incorrect from time to time, you are basing it on a different format of experience, e.g. past posts, etc.

Normally most others interested in staying a while (the visa subject), are actually surprised to learn that if you just commit to studying, there's not much stopping you on Phuket from staying in excess of 3-5 years just on the ED Visa extensions.

Honestly, you are going to need that time to really get a grasp on this language, especially if you aren't already married to a Thai. Class is OK, but you really need the genuine exposure of daily immersion. Expect that in 2 years you have enough to go on, where someone worth taking seriously, takes you seriously.

My feeling is that throughout Thailand, private language study and it's relationship to visa extensions is not very limited. It's only a few high-profit business owners out there that might be attempting to control the market by way of curtailing the packages down to smaller sizes, for higher profits. It's against their interests to offer year-round language study because good teachers are hard to find, especially advanced teachers. It's more in their interest to have lots of "short timers" who will buy in to a "limited course", and then abandon it after a while and move on.

Most people don't have the cash to last very long here anyhow, so even if language school owners don't intentionally structure things to profit from their market/ niche position, human nature of students (missing home, partying, romance, driving on wild roads), financial circumstances do indeed make it wiser to just offer 3 month course packages to students, and focus on "group only, strictly-scheduled" packages. If you sell a year of courses for 35K baht, the legal requirement for the visa is 4 hours a week. That's 35,000 baht divided by 208 hours (52 weeks at 4 hours per week. That's 168 baht per hour @ 4 hours a week. It's not much profit for committing to teach someone every week for 4 hours. Just running the aircon in high season's gonna blow that away. Etc. Etc. So the school I go to is probably running on volume of students being high.

The biggest school (the one in BKK and Pattaya) sees it better to charge 24K for 180 lessons. But that same school's owner has been the source of the information noting you probably can't get more than 3 months extension. It probably means that won't provide a latter asking for a year, or that Immigration in BKK and/or Pattaya won't accept one. They might have a deal with Immigration, they might not. These are big cities with their own expat dynamics, and what flies on Phuket, might not fly there. So essentially the picture is different depending on where you are.

In Phuket, Immigration's not going to hassle you if their manager is in regular contact with your school (e.g. she sees students coming in all the time from the school, all with well arranged papers and in full compliance). Ask your school outright, -do they work with the ED Ministry and Immigration regularly? They might lie, but it's a smart question to ask. You'll find out the truth when you go to extend, they usually call the school as they xerox *and* scan your paperwork into the database PC right next to the copier. When she calls, the school had better pick up the phone, and someone with a clue had better be on the phone with the school's ED Ministry credentials handy. The senior staff member doing these phone calls to the school is a pretty serious lady, your visa extension depends on what she thinks of your school and how it's staff behave, regardless of whatever the ED Ministry accepted/recommended to her in extending your stay. If there's a hassle, it's because the school isn't savvy on the ED Visa side.

It's a defining element of the long-stay principle behind this visa type, -so ask other students before you enroll. A good school should have students coming & going, and it'll be free & open for you to speak with them. Half the time the owner/teacher would rather you speak to existing students because it makes their job easy, the students will make the sale for them. That's how it is in my school, usually people all see someone new and have only excellent things to say, lots of advice, etc.

In reference to what I pay, it's 35-45K a year in installments of about 8-10K baht per every 3-4 months. I pay the higher amount of 45k a year because I get one-on-one study, which is a really good way to go, that's only 10-15k more baht, and I don't have to deal with a group. Every time there's a group, there's someone in the group who's going to interrupt progress, either by being late, hung over, justifiably mystified, unjustifiably rude, or just downright lame. It's usually offset by the teacher or someone else being amazing. But no matter what, it eats a lot of time you could be focused and really absorb something rather tedious. 45K is sort of the affordable version of one-on-one study. I expect the price will go up, but I also expect to be glad to pay it. Even if it was 60K baht, -that's a lot of knowledge for a pretty good price.

Often times throughout the year, another advanced student and I will decide on the same schedule during rainy season, high season, whatever, so that we can take a load off the teacher that day or somehow allow us to collaborate on a specific aspect of speaking, reading, writing or listening.

The reason I don't request the full 365 days extension is more to do with just matching what a college, university or even high school does. A normal school year doesn't run 365 days a year. Private language schools do in fact go year round, but i always try to keep things arranged in an academic logic for this extension type. I'm sure if I extend 365 they aren't going to reject it either. But sometimes your approach means something. On the first one the guy actually asked why I didn't ask for a year, and I just replied in Thai that "maybe I would need a break from school, all year is a bit much, 275 days is fine, we will be done with adjectives, etc. in Book #2 by then anyways". It's just being realistic. I keep my textbooks handy anyhow, they like to check them out, just being curious. When they see how good my teacher's books are, they sort of wave them around to one another saying "did you see this one, it's all on Thai, she doesn't give them a break at all".

On more than one occasion I hear them say stuff like "look at this, he writes better than I do" or "he speaks in the polite way", "so when are you going to get married?".

Anyhow, another thing to consider is the aspect of Permanent Residence. Not many people know much about it, but it's out there. It's not to say that you can or can't get it. But if you approach your long term presence in this country with an eye toward something like that, you can see how Phuket and it's habit of allowing long stays based on Education is well suited toward the goal of obtaining Permanent Residence.

As far as 90-day reporting in Nong Khai, that was a"no-go" when we called Bangkok about it, same as Phuket. They both maintained I'd better show up in person, so I flew down and spent a few weeks and checked out the advance version of the year #3 textbook before it went out to print. Cool stuff. Tedious, but cool.

[saanya]

Basically what Tod-Daniels did in effect confirms what I have been saying all along.

"once their students have their first single entry 90 day ED visa, getting a one year extension of stay based on education and studying thai at a private thai language school thru the Phuket Immigration office was the 'norm', rather than the exception"

Please, on this one, take me at my word. It's not "irregular" on Phuket. No worries if you are slightly incorrect from time to time, you are basing it on a different format of experience, e.g. past posts, etc.

Normally most others interested in staying a while (the visa subject), are actually surprised to learn that if you just commit to studying, there's not much stopping you on Phuket from staying in excess of 3-5 years just on the ED Visa extensions.

Honestly, you are going to need that time to really get a grasp on this language, especially if you aren't already married to a Thai. Class is OK, but you really need the genuine exposure of daily immersion. Expect that in 2 years you have enough to go on, where someone worth taking seriously, takes you seriously.

My feeling is that throughout Thailand, private language study and it's relationship to visa extensions is not very limited. It's only a few high-profit business owners out there that might be attempting to control the market by way of curtailing the packages down to smaller sizes, for higher profits. It's against their interests to offer year-round language study because good teachers are hard to find, especially advanced teachers. It's more in their interest to have lots of "short timers" who will buy in to a "limited course", and then abandon it after a while and move on.

Most people don't have the cash to last very long here anyhow, so even if language school owners don't intentionally structure things to profit from their market/ niche position, human nature of students (missing home, partying, romance, driving on wild roads), financial circumstances do indeed make it wiser to just offer 3 month course packages to students, and focus on "group only, strictly-scheduled" packages. If you sell a year of courses for 35K baht, the legal requirement for the visa is 4 hours a week. That's 35,000 baht divided by 208 hours (52 weeks at 4 hours per week. That's 168 baht per hour @ 4 hours a week. It's not much profit for committing to teach someone every week for 4 hours. Just running the aircon in high season's gonna blow that away. Etc. Etc. So the school I go to is probably running on volume of students being high.

The biggest school (the one in BKK and Pattaya) sees it better to charge 24K for 180 lessons. But that same school's owner has been the source of the information noting you probably can't get more than 3 months extension. It probably means that won't provide a latter asking for a year, or that Immigration in BKK and/or Pattaya won't accept one. They might have a deal with Immigration, they might not. These are big cities with their own expat dynamics, and what flies on Phuket, might not fly there. So essentially the picture is different depending on where you are.

In Phuket, Immigration's not going to hassle you if their manager is in regular contact with your school (e.g. she sees students coming in all the time from the school, all with well arranged papers and in full compliance). Ask your school outright, -do they work with the ED Ministry and Immigration regularly? They might lie, but it's a smart question to ask. You'll find out the truth when you go to extend, they usually call the school as they xerox *and* scan your paperwork into the database PC right next to the copier. When she calls, the school had better pick up the phone, and someone with a clue had better be on the phone with the school's ED Ministry credentials handy. The senior staff member doing these phone calls to the school is a pretty serious lady, your visa extension depends on what she thinks of your school and how it's staff behave, regardless of whatever the ED Ministry accepted/recommended to her in extending your stay. If there's a hassle, it's because the school isn't savvy on the ED Visa side.

It's a defining element of the long-stay principle behind this visa type, -so ask other students before you enroll. A good school should have students coming & going, and it'll be free & open for you to speak with them. Half the time the owner/teacher would rather you speak to existing students because it makes their job easy, the students will make the sale for them. That's how it is in my school, usually people all see someone new and have only excellent things to say, lots of advice, etc.

In reference to what I pay, it's 35-45K a year in installments of about 8-10K baht per every 3-4 months. I pay the higher amount of 45k a year because I get one-on-one study, which is a really good way to go, that's only 10-15k more baht, and I don't have to deal with a group. Every time there's a group, there's someone in the group who's going to interrupt progress, either by being late, hung over, justifiably mystified, unjustifiably rude, or just downright lame. It's usually offset by the teacher or someone else being amazing. But no matter what, it eats a lot of time you could be focused and really absorb something rather tedious. 45K is sort of the affordable version of one-on-one study. I expect the price will go up, but I also expect to be glad to pay it. Even if it was 60K baht, -that's a lot of knowledge for a pretty good price.

Often times throughout the year, another advanced student and I will decide on the same schedule during rainy season, high season, whatever, so that we can take a load off the teacher that day or somehow allow us to collaborate on a specific aspect of speaking, reading, writing or listening.

The reason I don't request the full 365 days extension is more to do with just matching what a college, university or even high school does. A normal school year doesn't run 365 days a year. Private language schools do in fact go year round, but i always try to keep things arranged in an academic logic for this extension type. I'm sure if I extend 365 they aren't going to reject it either. But sometimes your approach means something. On the first one the guy actually asked why I didn't ask for a year, and I just replied in Thai that "maybe I would need a break from school, all year is a bit much, 275 days is fine, we will be done with adjectives, etc. in Book #2 by then anyways". It's just being realistic. I keep my textbooks handy anyhow, they like to check them out, just being curious. When they see how good my teacher's books are, they sort of wave them around to one another saying "did you see this one, it's all on Thai, she doesn't give them a break at all".

On more than one occasion I hear them say stuff like "look at this, he writes better than I do" or "he speaks in the polite way", "so when are you going to get married?".

Anyhow, another thing to consider is the aspect of Permanent Residence. Not many people know much about it, but it's out there. It's not to say that you can or can't get it. But if you approach your long term presence in this country with an eye toward something like that, you can see how Phuket and it's habit of allowing long stays based on Education is well suited toward the goal of obtaining Permanent Residence.

As far as 90-day reporting in Nong Khai, that was a"no-go" when we called Bangkok about it, same as Phuket. They both maintained I'd better show up in person, so I flew down and spent a few weeks and checked out the advance version of the year #3 textbook before it went out to print. Cool stuff. Tedious, but cool.

I see that even on his site, Mac's both specifically offering *and* guaranteeing that the student will get the 1 year visa. http://www.thaiwalen.com/student_visa.php

1 Year ED (student) Visa

• Students who enroll at our school in a one year course are eligible to apply for a one year non-immigrant ED visa. With this visa you do not have to leave Thailand every now and then but can stay here continually for one year. On arrival you will be permitted to stay for 90 days and then with a paperwork provided by our school you will be able to extend your stay every 90 days at the local immigration office for the duration of the course. At present extensions cost 1,900 Baht. You can enjoy studying Thai and at the same time not worrying about making any visa runs.

Do you guarantee that I'll receive a 1 year non-immigrant ED visa?

• Yes, we do. We are applying for this kind of visa for our students on a regular basis, thus we have a lot of experience. Our school is recognized by the Thai Ministry of Education as providing education to international students and promoting Thai language and culture. We can also help with obtaining this visa for people who are not in Thailand at present but who wish to come to Thailand in order to learn Thai, we can send all the paperwork to your country. Contact us for more information.

He's clear about the current practice of renewing this every 90 days via "local immigration", but this doesn't mean it's specifically the policy of Immigration in BKK or Pattaya where his schools are at. The laws are clear on it, so in a way, even if Immigration is acting in practice in a contrary way, it's not that tough to get them to accept the actual law. To do so, one simply can visit the 2nd floor. That's the secret to living in Thailand forever. 2nd floor is everything. Letter from that guy for anything + Letter from your Embassy for anything = easy times.

(Just don't find yourself in the basement, that means you somehow skipped a few legal steps during your stay in Thailand, bwahaha, LOL :lol::lol::jap::jap::jap::whistling:

[monty]

1 Year ED (student) Visa

* Students who enroll at our school in a one year course are eligible to apply for a one year non-immigrant ED visa. With this visa you do not have to leave Thailand every now and then but can stay here continually for one year. On arrival you will be permitted to stay for 90 days and then with a paperwork provided by our school you will be able to extend your stay every 90 days at the local immigration office for the duration of the course. At present extensions cost 1,900 Baht. You can enjoy studying Thai and at the same time not worrying about making any visa runs.

They clearly write that you do not have to leave Thailand during the year, but that you have to go to immigration every 90 days for a new 90 day extension at a cost of 1900 Baht.

As it is done in Bkk and Pattaya.

As opposed to what apparently what they are doing in Phuket, where you seem to get one 365 day extension (1,900 Baht) followed by 90 day (address) repoting, which is free.

It is not a 1 year exension (as you yourself point out) and has a lot less security then a 365 day extension. In Pattaya at a time they were kind of "testing" applicants of ED extensions, if the particular immigration officer was not happy with your language skills he did have the option of refusing your extension (which results in a 7 day stamp). Don't think it happened, but they do have the option.