Thai Teenagers Struggle To Tell Partners About Having HIV

[webfact]

Teenagers struggle to tell partners about having HIV

By Pongphon Sarnsamak

The Nation

Joy is just 14 and at an age when many young girls think about falling in love. But she has lived knowing she has HIV for more than half her life.

"I am worried about whether a guy will accept me as I am," Joy admitted yesterday. Still, she was determined to tell her boyfriend - when she finds one - about her having the disease.

"It's okay if he rejects me," she said. "I will have to understand that".

The teenager contracted the disease at birth from her mother, who has already passed away.

Despite the deadly infection, Joy has the courage to live on because her father has always been there for her. "He has offered constant moral support. Thanks to him, my health condition is fine," she said.

Joy was first told she had the disease when she was 7, when she developed illnesses related to HIV and the doctor decided it was time to inform her.

"I was so nervous and afraid," Joy recounted, "The doctor told me I had to accept the truth about my life."

With the support of her loving father, Joy has learnt to be stronger and strictly take her anti-retroviral drugs - going to the hospital to see a doctor and get medication every two months.

She has also learnt that some 1,300 other teenagers around her age face the same fate.

Among them is Kay, who also started taking medication at the age of 7.

"Now, I can live a normal and healthy life," the 14-year-old said. Like Joy, Kay has lived in Chiang Rai and in a farming family.

Kay said when the doctor told her she was infected with HIV it was the hardest time of her life.

"I was very afraid to tell the truth to my friends," she said. But she did, and although the parents of some of her friends showed disgust, all her friends stood by her.

"It is good for me to have friends like them," she said.

Kay is never angry when someone asks her whether she is infected with HIV or not. When the question comes up, she takes the opportunity to explain the infection and about the disease.

"Although not everyone understands me, I am not discouraged. All I have to do is accept my life and stand tall to get by," she said.

Not all HIV-positive teenagers are willing to let others know about their infection, though. A teenage girl, who has had HIV for years, declined to give an interview out of fear details about her personal life may slip out and her boyfriend may learn she has the disease.

Bo, a hospital staffer who asked not to be named, said telling the truth to lovers was a major problem for teenagers living with HIV as most were afraid their love interest would not accept them.

"We will not tell them what they should do. We just let them think about the consequences after they tell the truth to their lovers that they are living with HIV. They also have to think how to prevent their lovers from getting infected," she said.

Apart from such problems, Bo said HIV-positive teenagers often found their condition worsens if they forget to strictly take anti-retroviral drugs.

Teenagers living with HIV turn to doctors for help and counselling occasionally. In addition to medical workers, they have also turned to those of their same age facing the same predicament.

The "Rim mekong River" group has many HIV-positive teenagers who often gather to discuss their problems and explore possible solutions.

-- The Nation 2010-12-02

[geriatrickid]

According to the adolescent behaviour specialists of TVF, these kids should just use a condom.

See the other thread for more revealing insight.

[COXYATCITY]

So sad for the girl in the post above,being born with H.I.V,she was totally innocent in catching this deadly disease,god willing she deserves to live a long time.as long as she keeps taking her medication.

[jayjay0]

Thailand like all countries has problems sexually related.

Amazing how many people can just brush them aside by saying wear a condom.

Yes that would solve some of the problems. How ever it would not help the emotional damage one would carry all there life's knowing that they had a fatal disease that could become active at any time and kill them.

Add that to the difficulties of growing up and a wear a condom becomes a joke. And a bad one in ill taste at that.

Time for people to grow up[ and face reality. Yes wearing a condom will solve some problems but how do we convince people to do that. That is a big problem no one want to face.

Personally I have no answer to that one. Hopefully some one wiser than me can come up with a answer.

[KhunAussie52]

What would be the prognosis for this girl?

[cup-O-coffee]

It is a felony in most countries to transmit HIV willfully to another person; punishable by fines and time in prison. Thailand?

"Joy is just 14 and at an age when many young girls think about falling in love", which leads me to think...

*91 per cent of the young respondents had experienced pornography, with the youngest reported at the primary level.

*19 per cent had received their first lesson on sex from pornographic media.

*42 per cent of pregnant women were not prepared

*each province had about 200 pregnant teenagers

*Of all the women who seek abortion, 30 per cent were under 20

*half of all women getting an abortion were teenagers with accidental pregnancies

*There are about 700 teenage girls getting pregnant each day

Article here

Yeah! This really tells me what's on Joy's mind when she dreams about love; Thai style! And until she finds prince charming, deceives him into a love relationship, and then drops a bomb on him (MAYBE!!!) about her affliction, in the mean time she will continue to pump mindless pap into her gourd until she can find what she is prowling - excuse me - looking for.

Hmmm. How does one look for love when they are carrying a disease that kills and impairs? It seems odd, yes? Shouldn't one inform anyone they intend to get close to that they have this disease BEFORE the other person bonds? After all, she is the one with the disease, and no amount of sympathy can remove the fact that she is a danger to people who do not have HIV, if they engage in sexual intercourse with her. She has a duty and a responsibility to inform her friends, employers, intimate friends, etc. Will she? The question, "How do Thai people feel about not telling the truth?" comes to mind.

Well; the article did not say if she is + or -, but that is your typical Thai reporter at it again with oversights and lack of detail.

So the article begins with a plea for me to sympathize with poor Joy, because she can not think about falling in love. How sad! It is not as if having the ability to fall in love would lead to anything to write a romance novel about. What? Is the reporter telling me that Thai kids should have the right to dream about shagging - excuse me - falling in love, and not taking the responsibility for that behavior; because that is what the statistics above point to. If poor Joy weren't infected with HIV, she would more than likely be listed in the next tier of behavior that is bringing down this country.

"Still, she was determined to tell her boyfriend - when she finds one - about her having the disease."

Bullshit! I do not believe she will tell her boyfriend. This information goes directly against a Thai woman's behavior. To openly disclose information that would place one's self in a negative light. Her determination, followed through with, would be unfair as well, because she is implying she would tell her boyfriend. A girlfriend / boyfriend relationship just doesn't happen overnight. This means she would be misleading this boy for several weeks into bonding with her, and then she would drop the bomb after he was familiar enough to be labeled as a "boyfriend". Why is that; to ensure that the odds of him staying with her would be increased if he thought it's "Love!"? How cunning that no one sees the behavioral hunting instinct in this young girl, as coached by episode 14 of "Thai Love Thai" on the Soap channel.

Additionally, the women are the flowers and the men are the bees. What about the boys. Again, we have an article that implies another sweet, innocent girl regaling us with her woes. I have yet to read an article about young Wirapat, the glue sniffing, iodine deficient, ADDH afflicted boy who has HIV, genital herpes, gonorrhea, and regularly has unprotected sex with teenage and preteen girls, and has impregnated over 200 on his own, when he's not busy attending gang meetings, playing video games, or being a juvenile delinquent in general. Sorry, Wiripat, I just made you up, because that is what the media seems to be aiming at when they describe the Thai male. Get used to it, because your kind are not doing anything to improve this image.

Sorry, Joy. I do not mean to single you out, but you are in a desperate struggle for a meaningless existence that people are telling you is meaningful. This is more true when I think about how much there is about life you do not understand, and will never understand, because this society is more determined than you, and will continue to melt your brain into a useless jelly.

Using just this one single individual as an example; how she got this way; and the fact (no one mentioned) that her mother probably got HIV from the father, is a classic example, on the molecular level, why any report about the goings on in this country secures a spot for the the word, "stupid" in the pages of the English dictionary for ages to come.

Sorry again, Joy. I can not be sympathetic to your cause. You already have more than enough bleeding hearts falling over themselves to whisper kind things in your ears (for a Baht of course); that is, if you can pull away from your MP3, and dreaming for a man (like young Wiripat) just long enough to listen.

[kutjebu]

According to the adolescent behaviour specialists of TVF, these kids should just use a condom.

See the other thread for more revealing insight.

The teenager contracted the disease at birth from her mother........

First read and then give your comments.

[cup-O-coffee]

According to the adolescent behaviour specialists of TVF, these kids should just use a condom.

See the other thread for more revealing insight.

The teenager contracted the disease at birth from her mother........

First read and then give your comments.

Respectfully, maybe the poster is targeting a point in the vicious cycle to make his point; the younger generation!

Maybe Joy will be the mother of the future that will give her child AIDS or HIV; that is unless she does not choose to have a fetus-ectomy.

Actually, his post makes more sense. Arresting the problem must begin somewhere. You can not deal with it by describing what the mother had, but rather by what the daughter has, and how she got it. One of her parents is still alive; the father. Clearly he performed unprotected sexual intercourse with the mother in order to conceive Joy. Either he was the carrier, or the mother had it before meeting with the father.

With that in mind, I think it would be an interesting statistic to know if the father has HIV, and why was this not mentioned in the report? Since he is more than likely still capable of engaging in sex with other women, and since statistics prove the promiscuity of the Thai male being at a high degree, it would be fair to inquire if Joy's father gave both Joy and her mother HIV, and - if he does have HIV - is he practicing safe sex, or still infecting other women?

Does daddy tell Joy this information, to set an example for when Joy tells her next partner?

[dasy]

So sad for the girl in the post above,being born with H.I.V,she was totally innocent in catching this deadly disease,god willing she deserves to live a long time.as long as she keeps taking her medication.

This organization managed by Mr. Faisal Malik sets the trend in treatment and care for kids with aids / HIV check out the website or find them on Face Book I visited two branches in Rayong and On Nut and it's very very impressive what they achieve there.

Camillian Home is a registered non-profit children's charity operating on behalf of the St. Camillus Foundation of Thailand in the area of Lat Krabang, Bangkok.

http://www.camillianhomelatkrabang.org/

[dasy]

So sad for the girl in the post above,being born with H.I.V,she was totally innocent in catching this deadly disease,god willing she deserves to live a long time.as long as she keeps taking her medication.

This organization managed by Mr. Faisal Malik sets the trend in treatment and care for kids with aids / HIV check out the website or find them on Face Book I visited two branches in Rayong and On Nut and it's very very impressive what they achieve there.

Camillian Home is a registered non-profit children's charity operating on behalf of the St. Camillus Foundation of Thailand in the area of Lat Krabang, Bangkok.

http://www.camillianhomelatkrabang.org/

[sirchai]

According to the adolescent behaviour specialists of TVF, these kids should just use a condom.

See the other thread for more revealing insight.

The teenager contracted the disease at birth from her mother........

First read and then give your comments.

Thanks!!!!

[sirchai]

According to the adolescent behaviour specialists of TVF, these kids should just use a condom.

See the other thread for more revealing insight.

The teenager contracted the disease at birth from her mother........

First read and then give your comments.

Respectfully, maybe the poster is targeting a point in the vicious cycle to make his point; the younger generation!

Maybe Joy will be the mother of the future that will give her child AIDS or HIV; that is unless she does not choose to have a fetus-ectomy.

Actually, his post makes more sense. Arresting the problem must begin somewhere. You can not deal with it by describing what the mother had, but rather by what the daughter has, and how she got it. One of her parents is still alive; the father. Clearly he performed unprotected sexual intercourse with the mother in order to conceive Joy. Either he was the carrier, or the mother had it before meeting with the father.

With that in mind, I think it would be an interesting statistic to know if the father has HIV, and why was this not mentioned in the report? Since he is more than likely still capable of engaging in sex with other women, and since statistics prove the promiscuity of the Thai male being at a high degree, it would be fair to inquire if Joy's father gave both Joy and her mother HIV, and - if he does have HIV - is he practicing safe sex, or still infecting other women?

Does daddy tell Joy this information, to set an example for when Joy tells her next partner?

It just doesn't matter if her dad is infected or not. fact is that AIDS's being a big problem worldwide.....:jap:

[Takeo]

'Bo, a hospital staffer who asked not to be named' - this line did make me smile

[Thaifever]

Aids medications? I've heard more damage coming from Aids medications than from the virus itself. There is a lot of hype built up around HIV and Aids, and also brainwashing campaigns about risk etc. There are some credible documentaries on the subject which question certain medical "gurus" on the subject, and the answers to some of the most fundamental questions and answers on the subject are quite shocking. Such as, does HIV cause Aids? Is it sexually transmittable? Has Aids ever been isolated in a test tube? Is there a test in existence which will tell you 100% if you are HIV positive? Research has found that the answers to all of these questions was "No". One such documentary is called, "House of Numbers". Watch it.

By the way, I'm not going to argue any points with you. I didn't make the documentary. Watch it yourself rather than try and get into a tiff about it. There are several docs made on this topic. The government knows about this and HIV is not going away because it's a cash cow.

[Amras]

Aids medications? I've heard more damage coming from Aids medications than from the virus itself. There is a lot of hype built up around HIV and Aids, and also brainwashing campaigns about risk etc. There are some credible documentaries on the subject which question certain medical "gurus" on the subject, and the answers to some of the most fundamental questions and answers on the subject are quite shocking. Such as, does HIV cause Aids? Is it sexually transmittable? Has Aids ever been isolated in a test tube? Is there a test in existence which will tell you 100% if you are HIV positive? Research has found that the answers to all of these questions was "No". One such documentary is called, "House of Numbers". Watch it.

By the way, I'm not going to argue any points with you. I didn't make the documentary. Watch it yourself rather than try and get into a tiff about it. There are several docs made on this topic. The government knows about this and HIV is not going away because it's a cash cow.

You're not serious are you? Sounds like watching these doco's you have been brainwashed.

The mechanisms of HIV infection and method of becoming AIDS (you do know that AID's is not a virus but a 'disease' or syndrome that results from the HIV virus' effect on the body) have been well established for many many years. There are complications to producing a vaccine against HIV which would take too long to go into. The problem with HIV medication is that it is not a specific targeted drug, they are anti-retro virals designed to reduce the replication of the virus it's self. Much similar to cancer treatment you need a shotgun approach to attempt treatment as there is no other way. Similar to cancer treatment, it does not always work and people can still become sick, or even worse due to the treatment itself. Its a pro vs con debate. As with MANY medical treatments.

The cost to produce any drug for any disease costs hundred's of millions of dollars before it can even be sold, add to that the millions spent on clinical research that goes no where.

To say it is just a cash cow attacks every single individual with this horrible disease. Yes the drugs are expensive, but the governement doesn't actually benefit (if anything it's the pharma companies) but there are honest pharma companies that do lots for third world countries to help curb the AIDS problem (ie offering free drugs).

Maybe you should watch more than a 'doco' produced to get ratings and actually read some scientific research and become informed on the coutnless research that shows how HIV works.

[Amras]

According to the adolescent behaviour specialists of TVF, these kids should just use a condom.

See the other thread for more revealing insight.

The teenager contracted the disease at birth from her mother........

First read and then give your comments.

Respectfully, maybe the poster is targeting a point in the vicious cycle to make his point; the younger generation!

Maybe Joy will be the mother of the future that will give her child AIDS or HIV; that is unless she does not choose to have a fetus-ectomy.

Actually, his post makes more sense. Arresting the problem must begin somewhere. You can not deal with it by describing what the mother had, but rather by what the daughter has, and how she got it. One of her parents is still alive; the father. Clearly he performed unprotected sexual intercourse with the mother in order to conceive Joy. Either he was the carrier, or the mother had it before meeting with the father.

With that in mind, I think it would be an interesting statistic to know if the father has HIV, and why was this not mentioned in the report? Since he is more than likely still capable of engaging in sex with other women, and since statistics prove the promiscuity of the Thai male being at a high degree, it would be fair to inquire if Joy's father gave both Joy and her mother HIV, and - if he does have HIV - is he practicing safe sex, or still infecting other women?

Does daddy tell Joy this information, to set an example for when Joy tells her next partner?

This post and your first post, really show what type of person you are. This girl did not choose to have this disease, nor did she get it from 'unwise' behaviour. To act so blatantly unsympathetic towards her, well words cannot describe how disgusted I feel.

Instead of blantantly labelling your assumptions on her, how do you know she ("Still, she was determined to tell her boyfriend - when she finds one - about her having the disease." Bullshit! I do not believe she will tell her boyfriend) actually won't. Do you know her, do you know her character?

"Sorry, Joy. I do not mean to single you out, but you are in a desperate struggle for a meaningless existence that people are telling you is meaningful. This is more true when I think about how much there is about life you do not understand, and will never understand, because this society is more determined than you, and will continue to melt your brain into a useless jelly."

So people with HIV are in a desperate struggle for a meaningless existance? Does she not deserve to attempt to live a normal life as much as anyone is entitled to? What is it she will exactly not understand about her life? That she is somehow now not worthy of being treated as a normal person, or that she should be shunned by everyone just like you are doing in your post.

"Sorry again, Joy. I can not be sympathetic to your cause. You already have more than enough bleeding hearts falling over themselves to whisper kind things in your ears (for a Baht of course); that is, if you can pull away from your MP3, and dreaming for a man (like young Wiripat) just long enough to listen."

How is she making money out of this? This disease is going to cost her a fortune throughout her life, which will more than likely end much shorter than you or I. Again, she can't dream....like everyone else? Why not....?

Honestly, I see people on here that I truly wonder if they are just miserable or have some beef in life and against people in general (especially Thais). Quite strange considering they chose to come live here and complain all the time.

Clearly there is an education gap in the Thai system. Attacking individuals is not the answer nor is it going to help the problem of HIV. Education is the key. You seem to froget HIV is a problem worldwide not JUST in Thailand.

[Thaifever]

You're not serious are you? Sounds like watching these doco's you have been brainwashed.

The mechanisms of HIV infection and method of becoming AIDS (you do know that AID's is not a virus but a 'disease' or syndrome that results from the HIV virus' effect on the body) have been well established for many many years. There are complications to producing a vaccine against HIV which would take too long to go into. The problem with HIV medication is that it is not a specific targeted drug, they are anti-retro virals designed to reduce the replication of the virus it's self. Much similar to cancer treatment you need a shotgun approach to attempt treatment as there is no other way. Similar to cancer treatment, it does not always work and people can still become sick, or even worse due to the treatment itself. Its a pro vs con debate. As with MANY medical treatments.

The cost to produce any drug for any disease costs hundred's of millions of dollars before it can even be sold, add to that the millions spent on clinical research that goes no where.

To say it is just a cash cow attacks every single individual with this horrible disease. Yes the drugs are expensive, but the governement doesn't actually benefit (if anything it's the pharma companies) but there are honest pharma companies that do lots for third world countries to help curb the AIDS problem (ie offering free drugs).

Maybe you should watch more than a 'doco' produced to get ratings and actually read some scientific research and become informed on the coutnless research that shows how HIV works.

Well thanks, I appreciate your candor. But, how do you know that it's not you who is brainwashed? Brainwashed by the media, drug companies, and the highest of authorities in the medical industries.

How would you know this documentary was made only to get ratings? Have you even watched it? This documentary isn't just some unemployed low life who took a handycam and went out to kill some time and boredom, it's a well researched documentary which interviews the highest scientific and medical minds on the matter, as well as the developers of the HIV tests, and the man who "discovered" HIV himself. You really should think about watching one of several documentaries made on the topic, rather than forming an opinion before even weighing an ounce of the evidence. I have looked at both sides of the picture, and made my own opinions. Portraying an opinion as fact, without looking at all of the facts would be a mistake.

Did you actually just put "honest" and "pharmaceutical company" in the same sentence together? I can assure you that any pharma companies doing "good" in third world countries have their own agendas. Do you believe everything your government tells you? If you believe the government is looking out for your best interest, then I've got some waterfront swampland in Florida to sell you.

[jayjay0]

Aids medications? I've heard more damage coming from Aids medications than from the virus itself. There is a lot of hype built up around HIV and Aids, and also brainwashing campaigns about risk etc. There are some credible documentaries on the subject which question certain medical "gurus" on the subject, and the answers to some of the most fundamental questions and answers on the subject are quite shocking. Such as, does HIV cause Aids? Is it sexually transmittable? Has Aids ever been isolated in a test tube? Is there a test in existence which will tell you 100% if you are HIV positive? Research has found that the answers to all of these questions was "No". One such documentary is called, "House of Numbers". Watch it.

By the way, I'm not going to argue any points with you. I didn't make the documentary. Watch it yourself rather than try and get into a tiff about it. There are several docs made on this topic. The government knows about this and HIV is not going away because it's a cash cow.

Reminds me of when I was taken Criminology. My instructor had us read a lot of Biographies of Famous Criminologists over the last few hundred years.

He maintained that if we were to look into the background of the Author we would know what was said in the book.

Same with a documentary. Was Micheal Moore doing the documentary?

[cup-O-coffee]

It just doesn't matter if her dad is infected or not. fact is that AIDS's being a big problem worldwide.....:jap:

????????????????????

Honestly, I see people on here that I truly wonder if they are just miserable or have some beef in life and against people in general (especially Thais). Quite strange considering they chose to come live here and complain all the time.

Clearly there is an education gap in the Thai system. Attacking individuals is not the answer nor is it going to help the problem of HIV. Education is the key. You seem to froget HIV is a problem worldwide not JUST in Thailand.

Get over it. Grow up. Smell the the odor of billions and billions of humans increasingly adding to the world population every day. If you want to hang on a cross for people; fine. But if you are going to attack me, at least remove that one clause from your post. It makes you sound stupid, and I do not think you are.

[metisdead]

One post removed from view.

[Berkshire]

Yeah! This really tells me what's on Joy's mind when she dreams about love; Thai style! And until she finds prince charming, deceives him into a love relationship, and then drops a bomb on him (MAYBE!!!) about her affliction, in the mean time she will continue to pump mindless pap into her gourd until she can find what she is prowling - excuse me - looking for.

Man, you are one insensitive pr*ck. There are ADULTS out there with HIV/AIDS who are afraid to bring up the issue with their new, potential partners. This is a 14-year old girl who doesn't appear to have ever even had a boyfriend and you're chastising her with your holier-than-thou nonsense? I'm glad she's never going to see your tasteless/classless drivel because it's incredibly cruel beyond words. Easy for you to criticize someone with a terminal disease who was born with it. And sure, jump on her father, when you have zero facts. Ever consider that her mother may have contracted HIV through other means besides sex? And what the heck does that matter anyways? Do you think people reading your crap are going to be impressed with your "courage?" Listen tough guy, you can hide behind a keyboard, but I'm sure in real life you're the classic basketcase. The sort of guy that has few friends because when you open your mouth, nothing substantive ever comes out. I'd ask you to show a little compassion, but honestly, I don't think you're capable.

[Amras]

You're not serious are you? Sounds like watching these doco's you have been brainwashed.

The mechanisms of HIV infection and method of becoming AIDS (you do know that AID's is not a virus but a 'disease' or syndrome that results from the HIV virus' effect on the body) have been well established for many many years. There are complications to producing a vaccine against HIV which would take too long to go into. The problem with HIV medication is that it is not a specific targeted drug, they are anti-retro virals designed to reduce the replication of the virus it's self. Much similar to cancer treatment you need a shotgun approach to attempt treatment as there is no other way. Similar to cancer treatment, it does not always work and people can still become sick, or even worse due to the treatment itself. Its a pro vs con debate. As with MANY medical treatments.

The cost to produce any drug for any disease costs hundred's of millions of dollars before it can even be sold, add to that the millions spent on clinical research that goes no where.

To say it is just a cash cow attacks every single individual with this horrible disease. Yes the drugs are expensive, but the governement doesn't actually benefit (if anything it's the pharma companies) but there are honest pharma companies that do lots for third world countries to help curb the AIDS problem (ie offering free drugs).

Maybe you should watch more than a 'doco' produced to get ratings and actually read some scientific research and become informed on the coutnless research that shows how HIV works.

Well thanks, I appreciate your candor. But, how do you know that it's not you who is brainwashed? Brainwashed by the media, drug companies, and the highest of authorities in the medical industries.

How would you know this documentary was made only to get ratings? Have you even watched it? This documentary isn't just some unemployed low life who took a handycam and went out to kill some time and boredom, it's a well researched documentary which interviews the highest scientific and medical minds on the matter, as well as the developers of the HIV tests, and the man who "discovered" HIV himself. You really should think about watching one of several documentaries made on the topic, rather than forming an opinion before even weighing an ounce of the evidence. I have looked at both sides of the picture, and made my own opinions. Portraying an opinion as fact, without looking at all of the facts would be a mistake.

Did you actually just put "honest" and "pharmaceutical company" in the same sentence together? I can assure you that any pharma companies doing "good" in third world countries have their own agendas. Do you believe everything your government tells you? If you believe the government is looking out for your best interest, then I've got some waterfront swampland in Florida to sell you.

my 'opinion' comes from years of studying science (which has been proven many times) and actually reading scientific literature on things like HIV research. I understand how the scientific process works and how a scientific 'fact' needs to be proven before it is accepted (multiple times).

If you believe for one second that any TV network would run a show that is guaranteed ratings........well then...clearly you do not understand how the networks operate. There have been many many factual documentries on a vaste range of topics that have never come to light because it doesn't guarantee ratings. Such controversial topics do (as above). What would be more interesting is the evidence behind the documentry. It's ok to take it at face value, but do they provide evidence, or are they just interviews with 'specialists' opinions. You said that in the doco HIV was questioned to be actually ever isolated, yet they intervied the man who identified/discovered it? So exactly how did they come up with the cause/mechanism of HIV then. How have people been isolating, researching and attempting to treat/cure HIV for decades since? Are you saying all these people don't know what they are doing, or actually making it up?

I would hardly think of myself as being brainwashed. In fact I take a very skeptical but open minded view on everything. Media doesn't have an effect on me as I understand what they do and how they do it, drug companies don't either and I am sure they do have their agenda's, they are a business after all and every big corporation has an agenda. They exist to make money after all. I do have personal experience directly with big Pharma though, so do get information from people actually working for these companies. Some companies are much worse than others. I know there have been big scandels with Pharma in the US. Saying that, not ALL operate in the same approach. But I do view Pharma companies more skeptically now then I have ever before.

As someone else said, it's much more important who made the documentary rather than the content. Facts can be spun anyway they like and there are many PR companies who are very good at convicing the masses of any agenda they have. Ie Hill and Knowlton as one who are associated with many public PR campaigns to convince the masses.

I may just check out this doco as it would be interesting to see how they are trying to spin something.

You do have to rememeber in Science you do occsaionally get someone who gets an 'interesting' result that contradicts established scientific theory. Ask them to repeat their findings though and they will make up every excuse under the sun. Read it before, seen it before, it does happen. They key to any scietific theory/fact is repeatability. And it is fact that much of HIV research can be repeated and shown to be true. There is no way getting around this.

[cup-O-coffee]

Yeah! This really tells me what's on Joy's mind when she dreams about love; Thai style! And until she finds prince charming, deceives him into a love relationship, and then drops a bomb on him (MAYBE!!!) about her affliction, in the mean time she will continue to pump mindless pap into her gourd until she can find what she is prowling - excuse me - looking for.

Man, you are one insensitive pr*ck. There are ADULTS out there with HIV/AIDS who are afraid to bring up the issue with their new, potential partners. This is a 14-year old girl who doesn't appear to have ever even had a boyfriend and you're chastising her with your holier-than-thou nonsense? I'm glad she's never going to see your tasteless/classless drivel because it's incredibly cruel beyond words. Easy for you to criticize someone with a terminal disease who was born with it. And sure, jump on her father, when you have zero facts. Ever consider that her mother may have contracted HIV through other means besides sex? And what the heck does that matter anyways? Do you think people reading your crap are going to be impressed with your "courage?" Listen tough guy, you can hide behind a keyboard, but I'm sure in real life you're the classic basketcase. The sort of guy that has few friends because when you open your mouth, nothing substantive ever comes out. I'd ask you to show a little compassion, but honestly, I don't think you're capable.

Heel boy; heel! Time for a rabies shot!

Using Joy as an example, I may seem like an insensitive prick, but actually I am a realistic prick, and you sound like a maudlin religious prick.

In case you forgot, death is not an option, and Joy does not have the corner on that market. She has HIV, and I do not, but we will both someday die. That is a certainty.

People celebrate life, and mourn death. Once the world's population reaches critical mass, religious pricks like Berkshire will have to step aside or be stampeded into a road pizza, The world will seriously begin considering mourning life and celebrating death. What I mean is, if allowing life to come in to this world were taken more seriously, then we would not have to hang our hearts out on our sleeves every time a new piece came up about "the poor children".

I know this sounds cruel and insensitive to your morally tuned and pre-programmed comprehension, but just because a baby is born, does not require me to sing in tune with the Berkshire Choir when a sad story about human tragedy comes up. Actually, I'll go one better and say that I am sick and tired of hearing about "the poor children" because I know that idiots like Berkshire are hovering near with their willow sticks to make sure the choir sings in key.

I am more sick of reading the predictable sympathetic comments than I am about reading someone who isn't afraid to take a swing at reality and tread on religious crap that has gotten this world into a mess in the first place.

You condemn me to a miserable sentence with your words because you can not see the fallacy of your own words. Therefore I condemn you to your own words, and ask that you be placed in the most overpopulated area of the world for a term of life. I believe that you would actually say that you wouldn't mind, just to spite me.

[Amras]

It just doesn't matter if her dad is infected or not. fact is that AIDS's being a big problem worldwide.....:jap:

????????????????????

Honestly, I see people on here that I truly wonder if they are just miserable or have some beef in life and against people in general (especially Thais). Quite strange considering they chose to come live here and complain all the time.

Clearly there is an education gap in the Thai system. Attacking individuals is not the answer nor is it going to help the problem of HIV. Education is the key. You seem to froget HIV is a problem worldwide not JUST in Thailand.

Get over it. Grow up. Smell the the odor of billions and billions of humans increasingly adding to the world population every day. If you want to hang on a cross for people; fine. But if you are going to attack me, at least remove that one clause from your post. It makes you sound stupid, and I do not think you are.

Get over what? Grow up about what? Actually its about 200-250,000 people per day, billions is exagerating it a little don't you think and makes you sound stupid. My point was your unsympathetic nature towards someone who had not chosen her current condition.

I don't see the connection between anything you just said...what does population growth have to do with HIV? Besides 'helping' curb it. Surely your not suggesting HIV is a good thing? Being sympathetic doesn't mean I'm going to give up my life for someone else, its called compassion and it's generally regarded as a universal human trait. I for one could not fathom being in her position. Imagine if you were, and people acted like you have (towards her) towards you.

[Amras]

Yeah! This really tells me what's on Joy's mind when she dreams about love; Thai style! And until she finds prince charming, deceives him into a love relationship, and then drops a bomb on him (MAYBE!!!) about her affliction, in the mean time she will continue to pump mindless pap into her gourd until she can find what she is prowling - excuse me - looking for.

Man, you are one insensitive pr*ck. There are ADULTS out there with HIV/AIDS who are afraid to bring up the issue with their new, potential partners. This is a 14-year old girl who doesn't appear to have ever even had a boyfriend and you're chastising her with your holier-than-thou nonsense? I'm glad she's never going to see your tasteless/classless drivel because it's incredibly cruel beyond words. Easy for you to criticize someone with a terminal disease who was born with it. And sure, jump on her father, when you have zero facts. Ever consider that her mother may have contracted HIV through other means besides sex? And what the heck does that matter anyways? Do you think people reading your crap are going to be impressed with your "courage?" Listen tough guy, you can hide behind a keyboard, but I'm sure in real life you're the classic basketcase. The sort of guy that has few friends because when you open your mouth, nothing substantive ever comes out. I'd ask you to show a little compassion, but honestly, I don't think you're capable.

Heel boy; heel! Time for a rabies shot!

Using Joy as an example, I may seem like an insensitive prick, but actually I am a realistic prick, and you sound like a maudlin religious prick.

In case you forgot, death is not an option, and Joy does not have the corner on that market. She has HIV, and I do not, but we will both someday die. That is a certainty.

People celebrate life, and mourn death. Once the world's population reaches critical mass, religious pricks like Berkshire will have to step aside or be stampeded into a road pizza, The world will seriously begin considering mourning life and celebrating death. What I mean is, if allowing life to come in to this world were taken more seriously, then we would not have to hang our hearts out on our sleeves every time a new piece came up about "the poor children".

I know this sounds cruel and insensitive to your morally tuned and pre-programmed comprehension, but just because a baby is born, does not require me to sing in tune with the Berkshire Choir when a sad story about human tragedy comes up. Actually, I'll go one better and say that I am sick and tired of hearing about "the poor children" because I know that idiots like Berkshire are hovering near with their willow sticks to make sure the choir sings in key.

I am more sick of reading the predictable sympathetic comments than I am about reading someone who isn't afraid to take a swing at reality and tread on religious crap that has gotten this world into a mess in the first place.

You condemn me to a miserable sentence with your words because you can not see the fallacy of your own words. Therefore I condemn you to your own words, and ask that you be placed in the most overpopulated area of the world for a term of life. I believe that you would actually say that you wouldn't mind, just to spite me.

Indeed she will die and so will you as will I. The difference is, you have had the chance to live a 'normal' life. She unfortunately more than likely will not and will die slowly and in pain one day not from HIV but from something else that takes an opportunity to overwhelm her reduced immune system, that you or I would normally be able to fight off.

Being compassionate does not have anything to do with being religious. I certaintly don't see the connection.

I agree, people should think more about brining life into this world. Especially if they are going to pass on their own sadistic, selfish and negative views onto their children, passing on such anger and contempt towards other human beings in plight. Imagine if the whole world was full of people like yourself and not the compassionate, sympathetic kind that are the general populace who feel for people in unfortunate situations. The world could then really be called hell and I for one, wouldn't want to live here.

[cup-O-coffee]

Yeah! This really tells me what's on Joy's mind when she dreams about love; Thai style! And until she finds prince charming, deceives him into a love relationship, and then drops a bomb on him (MAYBE!!!) about her affliction, in the mean time she will continue to pump mindless pap into her gourd until she can find what she is prowling - excuse me - looking for.

Man, you are one insensitive pr*ck. There are ADULTS out there with HIV/AIDS who are afraid to bring up the issue with their new, potential partners. This is a 14-year old girl who doesn't appear to have ever even had a boyfriend and you're chastising her with your holier-than-thou nonsense? I'm glad she's never going to see your tasteless/classless drivel because it's incredibly cruel beyond words. Easy for you to criticize someone with a terminal disease who was born with it. And sure, jump on her father, when you have zero facts. Ever consider that her mother may have contracted HIV through other means besides sex? And what the heck does that matter anyways? Do you think people reading your crap are going to be impressed with your "courage?" Listen tough guy, you can hide behind a keyboard, but I'm sure in real life you're the classic basketcase. The sort of guy that has few friends because when you open your mouth, nothing substantive ever comes out. I'd ask you to show a little compassion, but honestly, I don't think you're capable.

Heel boy; heel! Time for a rabies shot!

Using Joy as an example, I may seem like an insensitive prick, but actually I am a realistic prick, and you sound like a maudlin religious prick.

In case you forgot, death is not an option, and Joy does not have the corner on that market. She has HIV, and I do not, but we will both someday die. That is a certainty.

People celebrate life, and mourn death. Once the world's population reaches critical mass, religious pricks like Berkshire will have to step aside or be stampeded into a road pizza, The world will seriously begin considering mourning life and celebrating death. What I mean is, if allowing life to come in to this world were taken more seriously, then we would not have to hang our hearts out on our sleeves every time a new piece came up about "the poor children".

I know this sounds cruel and insensitive to your morally tuned and pre-programmed comprehension, but just because a baby is born, does not require me to sing in tune with the Berkshire Choir when a sad story about human tragedy comes up. Actually, I'll go one better and say that I am sick and tired of hearing about "the poor children" because I know that idiots like Berkshire are hovering near with their willow sticks to make sure the choir sings in key.

I am more sick of reading the predictable sympathetic comments than I am about reading someone who isn't afraid to take a swing at reality and tread on religious crap that has gotten this world into a mess in the first place.

You condemn me to a miserable sentence with your words because you can not see the fallacy of your own words. Therefore I condemn you to your own words, and ask that you be placed in the most overpopulated area of the world for a term of life. I believe that you would actually say that you wouldn't mind, just to spite me.

Indeed she will die and so will you as will I. The difference is, you have had the chance to live a 'normal' life. She unfortunately more than likely will not and will die slowly and in pain one day not from HIV but from something else that takes an opportunity to overwhelm her reduced immune system, that you or I would normally be able to fight off.

Being compassionate does not have anything to do with being religious. I certaintly don't see the connection.

I agree, people should think more about brining life into this world. Especially if they are going to pass on their own sadistic, selfish and negative views onto their children, passing on such anger and contempt towards other human beings in plight. Imagine if the whole world was full of people like yourself and not the compassionate, sympathetic kind that are the general populace who feel for people in unfortunate situations. The world could then really be called hell and I for one, wouldn't want to live here.

That is a noble response, and I applaud you for saying what any decent sort of human being would say. There is no denying that. I do, however, take exception with your assumptions about what I am, what I believe, or what I will teach my child.

Are you describing humanity, or are you describing survival of the species?

Joy is only one of over 6.3 billion people on this planet, and that number is rising to a point where, in only a few generation - in your lifetime and mine - there will not be enough food to feed the world's population. Disease will be pandemic. Water will be rationed.

The way you describe me places even God under judgment, for all the things that this "loving" being allows and apparently does not do anything about.

Are you religious? If not, then where to you draw the line at how much you actually do to comfort a situation is out of control? How much will you divert from your path in life to lend comfort to the overpopulating masses that come into this world?

Do you choose to live in the worst place on earth, where population creates hunger, thirst, disease, and death? Why are you not living there? Is it because you choose not to? Why do you choose not to? Is it because those places disgust you, and you fear your morals would be tried to their limits and you would become like those around you? Or is it because you fear the people around you would not care for your comforting words, and instead kill you for a drink of septic water, or a piece of maggot-riddled bread?

How convenient for you to stand at the podium and degrade my sense of survival, and "feel" for poor Joy, but not raise a finger for her. "Sure, I will say nice things about Joy, even though that will not change a thing".

The point of my posts is to illustrate a reality that brings great discomfort to people who do not want to face it, because this reality places "humanness" on a very low priority level. The scathing posts directed at me for bringing this up illustrates man's inability to deal with his future; compassion at a very generous level of "humanness", or survival; at a level that ensures that we can continue to exist as a species on this planet for millennia to come.

My comments about Joy go a lot deeper than your shallow interpretations describe, and your knee jerk reactions suggest. This is only one in 6.3 billion people we are describing here. I would rather be honest than say what I think people want to read or hear.If you feel you can be honest about me, as a human being, then I should be allowed the same right to speak what I feel honestly about, and we should weigh them on a balance of truth.

[Berkshire]

I am more sick of reading the predictable sympathetic comments than I am about reading someone who isn't afraid to take a swing at reality and tread on religious crap that has gotten this world into a mess in the first place.

You condemn me to a miserable sentence with your words because you can not see the fallacy of your own words. Therefore I condemn you to your own words, and ask that you be placed in the most overpopulated area of the world for a term of life. I believe that you would actually say that you wouldn't mind, just to spite me.

You ever consider channeling your anger towards something more constructive? Firstly, you're attacking this girl who's done nothing to you. And she wants nothing from you...except maybe a little compassion and understanding. You can provide neither. Then you come up with all kinds of ridiculous explanations for your vile hatred, from religion to overpopulation. My first post to you has nothing to do with religion. I'm probably less devout than you are. Religion has nothing to do with goodness. It's common decency, man. As for overpopulation, I actually do believe that it's one of mankind's most pressing problems. But you seem to say that we shouldn't help those in need because it will...what, exacerbate the problem? Shut down all the hospitals and let the sick die! War, famine, murder, disease....all good things because they will each alleviate the overpopulation problem! Do you see what you're getting at? You're right about one thing. This is one girl. One amongst billions. And this fact doesn't make her any less important than you or me.

[cup-O-coffee]

1] You ever consider channeling your anger towards something more constructive?

You are mistaken to judge my posts as being motivated by anger. This is your first error.

2] Firstly, you're attacking this girl who's done nothing to you.

Stupid logic. There are a lot of people in this world being attacked, who have done nothing to the people attacking them. Do you take this same approach to each case, or do you select the ones that make you feel "decent" and toss the rest?

No! I am using this example of one person's life (in this instance, Joy) to illustrate a point that we all have to take responsibility for the cards that have been dealt us. She is no different than anyone else alive, who will all one day go to the great beyond. In the mean time, being "decent" to each other is the candy coating that makes reality a bit easier to swallow. it still does not prevent the truth from being realized.

3] And she wants nothing from you...except maybe a little compassion and understanding.

Now just how would you know that, Berkshire? Really? Am I supposed to "feel" really really hard, and maybe she will pick up on that, wherever she is at this moment? No, I just think it irks you that I am not conforming to your value system, and the value system of a majority of people who don't know the difference from a moving freight train and one sitting still.

4] You can provide neither.

I don't care! And that is the honest truth. I do not want to go out of my way to get the attention of everyone who is suffering and give a little compassion and understanding. It has been tried before, and it is being tried even now, and nothing but further suffering results from it. Incidentally, cut the crap with your little charade about "sounding" decent. She is not reading this post or this thread, so your grandstanding is without any effect except to you. If you were to get out and go find her and sit down with her and hold her hand and tell her how sad you feel, she would probably wonder what in hell you were doing, unless you offered some money or something. Otherwise, "feeling decent" towards her is silly and makes you look like a puppet dancing on a string to me.

5] Then you come up with all kinds of ridiculous explanations for your vile hatred, from religion to overpopulation.

Vile? No, not vile. Focused! That is more appropriate. Religion creates barriers from mankind joining together to make this a better world. Overpopulation dilutes the best of mankind and consumes mankind from within and without. Without the gear to survive, then survival becomes a fight to the finish. it works on all levels. Do the math. This is a first in our history, so you and I are in for the ride of our lives. If you want to be decent about it, then go ahead, but I predict that decency will be tossed out with a lot of other candy-coated semantics before this is through.

6] My first post to you has nothing to do with religion.

Maybe not, but a lot of reactions seem similar to what people are brought up to believe in, in their Christian and Muslim-based countries. I am a bit of a realist when it comes to dealing with people, and dealing with beings I have never seen nor heard from. It seems most religions come from the mouths and writings of men and do not aim at abandoning a religion if it means ending the life of another. When a religion exalts itself above a human life, I draw the line. However, life is becoming exceedingly plentiful on a planet that is losing its resources daily, and religion might yet again be used as an excuse to do what people fear to say outright; decrease the population to buy some more time.

7] I'm probably less devout than you are.

Possibly. Performance-based acceptance is the religion of man. A lot of people devote their lives jumping through hoops in order to make the bell ring for points. I am more of a faith-based acceptance kind of guy. Getting along is essential, but no one is going to go with me when its time, so I had better be at peace with myself.

8] Religion has nothing to do with goodness.

A lot of people might disagree with that notion, although I would point to my view that there are a lot of good, religious people who would be better off doing good in the name of mankind, rather than a god. But that is my own view.

9] It's common decency, man.

Ahhh! Common conformity. I see what you mean. You want me to conform to the common, recognized standard of propriety, modesty, etc. So that is what makes you so angry at me! I am not conforming. Sorry to disappoint you, but I see the word decency (i.e. conformity) going obsolete when reality hits us hard. I believe that a new conformity will rear its ugly head purely out of a matter of survival. Right now, as this article states, people are not doing a very good job of being decent to each other while we kill each other off (in the name of decency), and condemn our future generations to making decisions we don't have the balls to make for them.

10] As for overpopulation, I actually do believe that it's one of mankind's most pressing problems.

Didn't you say in item 5 that overpopulation is a ridiculous explanation for a vile hatred? Or, are you only pinning that wild card on me? I do not understand.

11] But you seem to say that we shouldn't help those in need because it will...what, exacerbate the problem?

No. You perceive me wrong. I am not against others helping, and I will help when and if I can, but not to the extent that I will overreach my limitation and my responsibilities that I have arranged for my life. Unfortunately, a time is approaching that will envelops each individual's ability to help others in need, because all the good people will be inundated and worn to bits, or drop dead from exhaustion. And the needy will present a problem as much as tribbles did for the crew of the Enterprise; from cute and cuddly to using up every resource essential to human survival.

12] Shut down all the hospitals and let the sick die!

This is an overreaction and I do not need your push in this direction, because it is not the direction I wish to go. Hospitals are already overcrowded and ineffective in the areas of the world where population is out of control. They are reduced to buildings with beds and nothing more. The waiting rooms are filled to overflowing and the people are spilling out onto the dirt in front of them. Decency can reach a point where it is pitiful to watch unfold. Do you care to go and help out? I don't. What's your excuse?

13] War, famine, murder, disease....all good things because they will each alleviate the overpopulation problem!

You are probably going to regret saying these things the next time you watch a program, or read a book that describes these events as scientific and very plausible views for reduced populations coming out on top after such an event passes. After war, prosperity reigns, and no one complains, and the idealists crawl out from under their rocks and start us on another course for a future war. I am merely repeating what I have seen and read about, and it is interesting because it proposes a reality of life that exists for all species on this planet. Man, however, is the only animal that wages war and murders simply for the pleasure and profit of it.

14] Do you see what you're getting at?

Yes. Do you? I see you under water, struggling to get to the surface to let air into your lungs, and when the lifeguard swims out to you, you panic and try to drag him down. I see you getting angry because traffic is slow and it is keeping you from getting your dinner. I see you waking up in the night in a cold sweat because you had one of those dreams where you have fallen from a great height. I see you buying up as much water as you can when a water shortage hits, and not giving a dam_n about the people who will get there after you leave. The struggle to live, and man's desire for it; it is a more potent force of our nature than the secondary, conceived notion of decency, when the rubber hits the road.

15] You're right about one thing. This is one girl. One amongst billions. And this fact doesn't make her any less important than you or me.

I am not saying that she is any less important. Nor are you. It is about life; its realities, and man's ability to overcome, improvise and adapt to change. Overpopulation is the mother of everything we fight against; disease, famine, thirst, warmth.

You have the luxury of brandishing your whip and holding the standard of decency; but I fear your time will come to an end, and there are already very powerful people out there that do not give a dam_n about decency, because they already see an end coming if something is not done to avert a totally depleted planet. It makes me sad too, but decency is not going to be the answer, and I do not know what that answer will be.

Joy and the others will have to do the best they can, in whatever manner they perceive their lives to be. Anyone who is decent to them will make things better, or draw a contrast to a bleak situation of how much better things could be, and that makes it worse for them when the decent people move on and return to their townhouses and condominiums.

Decent in thought for an OP, or decent until martyrdom. Only one makes a difference, and I am not going to lie about it or deceive myself into feeling good so I can sleep at night.

Edit: Berkshire, I just wanted to come back and say that I think you are a decent sort. I am serious. Your zeal against my views shows that. I truly wish there were enough people like you that would outnumber the afflicted, so that every suffering soul could have someone like you beside them. The sad thing is that decent sorts like you will be all used up before we find a solution that makes life bearable. My greatest fear is that the solutions are not always where the little guy wins out, and only the wealthy and powerful get to edit the history books. Still, they have to go where the less fortunate go, and so I look forward to the welcoming committee when these bastards get there, and get theirs.

Edited December 3, 2010 by cup-O-coffee

[Berkshire]

Edit: Berkshire, I just wanted to come back and say that I think you are a decent sort. I am serious. Your zeal against my views shows that. I truly wish there were enough people like you that would outnumber the afflicted, so that every suffering soul could have someone like you beside them. The sad thing is that decent sorts like you will be all used up before we find a solution that makes life bearable. My greatest fear is that the solutions are not always where the little guy wins out, and only the wealthy and powerful get to edit the history books. Still, they have to go where the less fortunate go, and so I look forward to the welcoming committee when these bastards get there, and get theirs.

Wow, quite a change in atttitude. I applaud your courage. Rare to see people change their tone after a heated debate. You'd be surprised to know that I share many of your views on the world at large, but the topic of this thread didn't seem appropriate to discuss them. Anyways, see you around....

[Amras]

Indeed she will die and so will you as will I. The difference is, you have had the chance to live a 'normal' life. She unfortunately more than likely will not and will die slowly and in pain one day not from HIV but from something else that takes an opportunity to overwhelm her reduced immune system, that you or I would normally be able to fight off.

Being compassionate does not have anything to do with being religious. I certaintly don't see the connection.

I agree, people should think more about brining life into this world. Especially if they are going to pass on their own sadistic, selfish and negative views onto their children, passing on such anger and contempt towards other human beings in plight. Imagine if the whole world was full of people like yourself and not the compassionate, sympathetic kind that are the general populace who feel for people in unfortunate situations. The world could then really be called hell and I for one, wouldn't want to live here.

That is a noble response, and I applaud you for saying what any decent sort of human being would say. There is no denying that. I do, however, take exception with your assumptions about what I am, what I believe, or what I will teach my child.

Are you describing humanity, or are you describing survival of the species?

I have often read and seen protrayed that our humanity is what defines us as having such great potential and also shows what we are capable of. If all we were to each consider is (Our own) survival of the species then we would be no better than the cave men from where we once came, nor the animals that live in the wild concerned only with themself. Our compassion, willingness to work together to over come struggle and hardship is why our species has become the most dominant on this planet. Yes there are also other factors that add to this, but without co-operation and attempted co-existance we would not be as developed as we are today. An oversimplified example is the east vs western world (and I'm generalising a lot here and talking about the poorer regions in the east). There are big differences in exploitation of the many for the benefit of few on a much bigger scale. Isn't it a strange coincidence that many of these 3rd world contries act in that way and are so far socially and industrially behind the western world, where we more of less take a much better stance on looking after each other? Strange coincidence isn't it?

Joy is only one of over 6.3 billion people on this planet, and that number is rising to a point where, in only a few generation - in your lifetime and mine - there will not be enough food to feed the world's population. Disease will be pandemic. Water will be rationed.

There already is not enough food to feed the worlds population. There are many other mitigating factors contributing to food shortage besides just the number of people, including drought, weather etc which plays a much bigger role. In Australia we have had water restrictions for at least the last 5 years. Something most of the other developed countries are yet to experience.

The way you describe me places even God under judgment, for all the things that this "loving" being allows and apparently does not do anything about.

I've never attested to religious beliefs, for personal reasons I find that they also benefit the few in place of the good of the many. But thats another discussion.

Are you religious? If not, then where to you draw the line at how much you actually do to comfort a situation is out of control? How much will you divert from your path in life to lend comfort to the overpopulating masses that come into this world?

Why do I need to draw the line? Offering sympathy to a situation that I would myself not want to be in, costs me nothing. But refusing to be sympathetic, well I just feel like that would cost me 'my soul', so to speak. But then, I'm just that type of person. Many are not. One of the most inspirational quotes I have ever heared was "What man is a man, who does not make the world a better place" Somewhat idealistic, but you don't have to do something grande to believe this. Even by affecting a single persons life (be it in any positive way), clearly has to be better than the alternative?

Do you choose to live in the worst place on earth, where population creates hunger, thirst, disease, and death? Why are you not living there? Is it because you choose not to? Why do you choose not to? Is it because those places disgust you, and you fear your morals would be tried to their limits and you would become like those around you? Or is it because you fear the people around you would not care for your comforting words, and instead kill you for a drink of septic water, or a piece of maggot-riddled bread?

I don't live there, becuase I was not born there. No choice was involved. I was lucky enough to be born in a better situation. Others a not. Many people consider my decision to move to Thailand a mild form of the above (however unjustified). If it did happen, I would hope that I would not feel anger towards them. They know no other way, how can I judge when I have had the luxury to live in a situation that wasn't so dependant on my daily survival. What would I do....I have honestly no idea. But neither you or I are in that situation are we?

How convenient for you to stand at the podium and degrade my sense of survival, and "feel" for poor Joy, but not raise a finger for her. "Sure, I will say nice things about Joy, even though that will not change a thing".

You right, it probably won't change anything. But what makes you feel such a need of survival from your home with internet, while you eat your suplus of food and drink your alcohol (in general terms)? How does offering even a word of sympathy (not pity) threaten your survival? I would say it doesn't in the least.

The point of my posts is to illustrate a reality that brings great discomfort to people who do not want to face it, because this reality places "humanness" on a very low priority level. The scathing posts directed at me for bringing this up illustrates man's inability to deal with his future; compassion at a very generous level of "humanness", or survival; at a level that ensures that we can continue to exist as a species on this planet for millennia to come.

I don't believe that at all. I think it just shows that most people believe that the trait we associate with humanity gives us great ideals which allow us to hopefully advance our species beyond where we are today. Losing what is great about our humanity, won't benefit our species at all, it will cause us to go backwards. All you have to do is look at history and see how human ideals have changed and the effect that has had on the world.

My comments about Joy go a lot deeper than your shallow interpretations describe, and your knee jerk reactions suggest. This is only one in 6.3 billion people we are describing here. I would rather be honest than say what I think people want to read or hear.If you feel you can be honest about me, as a human being, then I should be allowed the same right to speak what I feel honestly about, and we should weigh them on a balance of truth.

Agreed, I never said your weren't entitled to speak how you feel. My reactions are far from knee jerk. I beleive that if we are going to get through the problems our world is facing now, it's going to take a lot more than just willingness to survive at the expense of others.

All I ask is, what if Joy was someone close to you. How would you want (sorry hope) people to respond? Sympathetically or the way you originally did? What would you really feel if someone implied 'tough luck' and it was someone you cared about.

That is how I decide on my decisions and how I chose to act towards someone. You say I stand on a podium and degrade your sense of survival, yet your standing on your podium (with your health and your food etc) and degrading her wish for a normal life.