WikiLeaks alleged Russia bribed Bout witnesses

[thaikahuna]

The latest Wikileaks release is the best thing to happen to government transparency in many years.

Let's hope there are more of them.

If the bloody morons are so "unbiased" as they want the world to believe. Let them release ALL the cable traffic from all the other countries in their possession. If they have this from the US, let's see what the rest of the world has to say....or is he afraid he may have his bluff called?

I heard rumor that Sweden has Interpol arrest warrants out for ASSange.

[LaoPo]

Why is Weaky leaks blocked in Thailand?

An access to such information has been temporarily ceased

due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)

under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).

A mistery to many...as it doesn't seem very "emergency decree" like to me.

..as a sidekick....nice name you have...

LaoPo

[asiawatcher]

" ... "tainted as a result of the efforts by Bout's associates to bribe Thai officials".

Nah - bribe Thai officials???? Never - couldn't happen

[whybother]

Why is Weaky leaks blocked in Thailand?

An access to such information has been temporarily ceased

due to the order of the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES)

under the authority of emergency decree B.E 2548 (A.D. 2005).

A mistery to many...as it doesn't seem very "emergency decree" like to me.

..as a sidekick....nice name you have...

LaoPo

Hasn't it been blocked for months? Something to do with stuff about the monarchy on there?

Edited December 2, 2010 by whybother

[surangw]

Bout cables

they still send cables ( telexes) ??

[animatic]

Not one 'revelation' surprises at all.

Bouts buddies bribes. Heads of State talk,

oh, wow I am so shocked... not at all actually.

Millenniums have passed with the same backroom dealings and decisions, between heads of state their spies and diplomats. It is how the international game is played, and the rules are hardly made on moralists catch phrases. But people starve and die and get attacked if the game isn't played well. We chose are leaders, in theory, for their abilities to deal with the real politics in the world, and not for our moralizers Utopian ideas. Real world, real politics, real decisions done well, or suffering for your corner in a real way.

The bad part about going public like this is, people who don't have to make tough decisions based on partial information and massive need to know, are now seconded guessed, but every moralist, armchair quarterback, who couldn't get in a position of power if he tired.

And the end effect is less information to make informed decisions that affect the lives of billions, and more risk for EVERYONE, including those who wring their hands over the leaked info.

I may not like everything I hear in these leaked cables, but I can easily imagine some of the end and byproducts of this 'Freedom Of Information exercise', is going to hurt me and my family in the medium and long term. Bad business, even of done for 'the right reasons'.

Edited December 2, 2010 by animatic

[OzMick]

The US tries to get hold of data from everyone. While the crowds are trapped with Face-book and Google already, some who are missing are directly spied on. - that is.

The US acts more like a beast that is unleashing now. I'm not saying all American are nuts. I'm still aware of many great people there, but they have to stand up and clean up the mess their politicians and elites have created.

I fully second that!

The name: Mrs. Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert doesn't mean a lot to many of the readers here, yet Mrs Hennis-Plasschaert from The Netherlands won the prestigious MEP Prize of Euro Parliament Member, yesterday!

She was the one who stopped American intervention in Europe whereby the US demanded access to ALL bankaccounts of all 300+ Million European citizens, because of their war on terrorists....

She managed to have a Law accepted that stopped that absurd demand.

Bravo Jeanine !

LaoPo

Isn't it a pity some euro politician didn't pass a law banning American intervention in WWI and WWII. But of course, reciprocity is a hard word to translate. Just be thankful you don't have to finish your post with "Seig Heil".

[khaowong1]

Adobe reader says the file is damaged and cannot be repaired, dam77it

same thing happened to me.. me thinks something is afoot.

[moskito]

I think the prosecution of Bout by the US is a terribly hypocritical exercise.

I don't think there are good and bad guys when it comes to international arms deals.

The US have armed rebellions, supported fascists with weapons and money, killed elected heads of state.

Did the US prosecute the US citizens behind these crimes?

Or did they rather receive "secret medals" they can't show anyboy?

US propagandists: please spare us with the "merchant of death" bullshit.

[moskito]

[America. Back the FARC, the Taliban, N. Korea., Mugabe...anybody but America....Idiots...

...so you just forgot that the USAmericans created the Taliban? btw, for the same reason they wanted Bout now.....but sure, you are right, its a big difference to kill Russians or Iraquis as Israeli or UScitizens.

Its not that most people hate USAmericans, they just hate the government there and what it stands for TRULY. Thats not humanity its just business!

The US armed the mujahadeen (?) to fight the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan. The mujahadeen, of course, became the basis of Al-Qaeda...

However, it wasn't the US that created the Taliban. That's almost certainly down to Pakistan.

And it's Al-Qaeda's mistake in underestimating the American reaction to 9/11 that's why they've been hiding in tribal areas in Pakistan now for 8 years.

And you belive that USAmerica if they really wanted Bin Laden they havent catched him already? BTW, Santa is on its way and will arrive evening 24th of december :jap:

SO before we are go off topic and start again the discussion of 9-11 and the inside job lets all pray for a nice sunny day tomorrow.....

[moskito]

Regardless of who founded the Taliban, we need to kill every last one of them. Their whole idealogy is sick, demented and brutal in the extreme. I would have thought that even the most virulent America bashers would understand that much... but maybe not. Anti-Americanism is a kind of mindless fashion trend. You wear the clothes in fashion, even if you look ridiculous in them

The problem here is, what most people know about the Taliban is just what the massmedia told them about. I personally dont know any Taliban by myself and have never talked with one as far as I know. So if you have other sources then the massmedia, let me know about, I am always willing to learn something new, I just dont belive everything what they want us to belive....and Wiki Leaks is a good example for it. Have a nice day :jap: ....hopefully without FOX

Btw, when the USAmericans have the wiki guy, will they put him in the same jail as Bout? Should be intresting

[phiphidon]

Not one 'revelation' surprises at all.

Bouts buddies bribes. Heads of State talk,

oh, wow I am so shocked... not at all actually.

Millenniums have passed with the same backroom dealings and decisions, between heads of state their spies and diplomats. It is how the international game is played, and the rules are hardly made on moralists catch phrases. But people starve and die and get attacked if the game isn't played well. We chose are leaders, in theory, for their abilities to deal with the real politics in the world, and not for our moralizers Utopian ideas. Real world, real politics, real decisions done well, or suffering for your corner in a real way.

The bad part about going public like this is, people who don't have to make tough decisions based on partial information and massive need to know, are now seconded guessed, but every moralist, armchair quarterback, who couldn't get in a position of power if he tired.

And the end effect is less information to make informed decisions that affect the lives of billions, and more risk for EVERYONE, including those who wring their hands over the leaked info.

I may not like everything I hear in these leaked cables, but I can easily imagine some of the end and byproducts of this 'Freedom Of Information exercise', is going to hurt me and my family in the medium and long term. Bad business, even of done for 'the right reasons'.

Not many people will be shocked by the some of the revelations. However it is one thing surmising that behaviour is happening and another having it confirmed. Confirmed you may argue with but judging by the reaction of some of the countries involved they must have something to hide or why are they reacting in such a way?

Wrt to spies and diplomats, again we all know that is how the game is played, but aren't you at all interested into how that "game" is played. Your phrase that people starve and die and get attacked if the "game" isn't played well - it's hardly a game is it for these people? Do you not think it would be worthwhile if you were better informed as how your representatives were going to play that "game". Surely that information, if available, would influence your choice of representatative? Failing that, if you knew your government would be acting with a secretive agenda that you disagreed with would you not support any initiative to identify that agenda?

Wikileaks is not going to mean the end of information gathering by any government or other agency. With regard to the end products of the information leaked so far - I cannot comment for you and your nearest and dearest and nor would I, or the billions that you say it will affect, but I appreciate the efforts of people who truly know the meaning of open and responsible government.

[KeyserSoze01]

To quote a rather infamous Colombian, who now sleeps with the fishes. "Plato o Plomo", which translates to Silver or Lead... If you won't take a bribe and be on my side, the I give you lead and you won't get to pick a side in the future.

Is anyone really surprised that someone would pay off witnesses in this case?

[LaoPo]

Isn't it a pity some euro politician didn't pass a law banning American intervention in WWI and WWII. But of course, reciprocity is a hard word to translate. Just be thankful you don't have to finish your post with "Seig Heil".

How silly to bring up 2 wars which were 95/100 and 65/70 years ago.

Would you like to give me your bank account details ? Would you accept any foreign nation diving into ALL bank details from all citizens ? Give me a break.

And, no need to insult other members with your below-the-belt attack and getting personal with a Nazi-style remark ; it's against forum rules.

LaoPo

[manarak]

Godwin's law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

[sydneyjed]

Why have another 1800 sites been blocked in Thailand also ??Apparently in the interests of 'national security'..Protecting who??

[whybother]

Why have another 1800 sites been blocked in Thailand also ??Apparently in the interests of 'national security'..Protecting who??

Where did you get that number?

[Deeral]

Wikileaks hasn't "alleged" anything - they are simply publishing documents made by others.The "mess" is not of Wikileak's making, it is those who have made these docos in the first place who have made the mess.

[LaoPo]

Why have another 1800 sites been blocked in Thailand also ??Apparently in the interests of 'national security'..Protecting who??

Where did you get that number?

By the mid of last June the number was already over 113,000 blacklisted websites in Thailand, being the first country in the world surpassing the 100,000 goal.

Google is your friend.

LaoPo

[whybother]

Why have another 1800 sites been blocked in Thailand also ??Apparently in the interests of 'national security'..Protecting who??

Where did you get that number?

By the mid of last June the number was already over 113,000 blacklisted websites in Thailand, being the first country in the world surpassing the 100,000 goal.

Google is your friend.

LaoPo

Yes. So where did 1800 come from?

[Deeral]

Debating sources and citations is a sure sign of a poor argument.

If you disagree with the point that someone is trying to make - in this case that of excessive censorship by the Thai govt - say so! and put forward your counter argument. Quibbling over minutiae makes a facile argument.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Deeral

[whybother]

Debating sources and citations is a sure sign of a poor argument.

If you disagree with the point that someone is trying to make - in this case that of excessive censorship by the Thai govt - say so! and put forward your counter argument. Quibbling over minutiae makes a facile argument.

I'm just wondering why 1800?

There are thousands of sites blocked. Wikileaks has been blocked for a long time, because of an article relatinging to the monarchy. Most of the sites are blocked for this reason.

1800 is small considering the number of sites supposedly blocked. Why use any number if it's just pulled out of your ........?

[Deeral]

Debating sources and citations is a sure sign of a poor argument.

If you disagree with the point that someone is trying to make - in this case that of excessive censorship by the Thai govt - say so! and put forward your counter argument. Quibbling over minutiae makes a facile argument.

I'm just wondering why 1800?

There are thousands of sites blocked. Wikileaks has been blocked for a long time, because of an article relatinging to the monarchy. Most of the sites are blocked for this reason.

1800 is small considering the number of sites supposedly blocked. Why use any number if it's just pulled out of your ........?

You still don't seem to grasp that it is a best tangential to the argument - give it a rest!

[brahmburgers]

Assange is a smart guy. He has a slick & quick answer for everything. He got a lot more than 15 minutes of fame out this. However, I tend to agree with the likes of Animatic. If diplomats, world leaders and operatives feel they can't speak frankly about things, then they're going to be more guarded. Because the leaks stemmed from US sources, then all those operatives will be particularly guarded with their communications with the US. One Saudi official joked to Hillary recently (paraphrased from memory) something like, "don't worry about what we heard via Wikilinks, we say worse things about you."

Ironically, Wikileaks and their fans think this will bring more transparency, but the reality is it will bring more hiding and non-communication.

Think about it: if you had a friend who, every few weeks blabbed in the marketplace the most intimate and embarrassing secrets you confided with her, then you'd likely not confide in her any more.

Mr. Berringer became famous, decades ago, for leaking what became known as the 'Pentagon Papers' which showed the insider deception surrounding US's role in the Vietnam War. To me, that was somewhat justified, as it exposed the lies which kept the war going, and may have led to a quicker end to the war. The Wikileaks revelations are different, in that they largely reveal embarrassing info, but nothing which will improve relations between countries.

[Deeral]

In most cases these are people who are appointed to represent US - the diplomats know what to disregard etc - they also should know how to look after "private" statements they have made.

These are REAL statement made by REAL people and part of a process that we should have access to.Good on Wikileaks!

Don't forget - he is notthe leaker - he is merely the vehicle through which they are published.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Deeral

[LaoPo]

Assange is a smart guy. He has a slick & quick answer for everything. He got a lot more than 15 minutes of fame out this. However, I tend to agree with the likes of Animatic. If diplomats, world leaders and operatives feel they can't speak frankly about things, then they're going to be more guarded. Because the leaks stemmed from US sources, then all those operatives will be particularly guarded with their communications with the US. One Saudi official joked to Hillary recently (paraphrased from memory) something like, "don't worry about what we heard via Wikilinks, we say worse things about you."

Ironically, Wikileaks and their fans think this will bring more transparency, but the reality is it will bring more hiding and non-communication.

I have the impression you didn't read what Mr. Assange had to say about this. You will be surprised that you and him are quite close actually...:

http://www.time.com/...2034040,00.html

Apart from that: the naughty comments, made by diplomats about other world leaders and diplomats are not so "touchy" and will be forgotten before we realize.

After all, all those diplomats and world leaders gossip about each other all the time. Nothing new and there are many examples of "errors" spoken by leaders/diplomats and even royalty.

However, there are much more important issues in the WikiLeak documents and the stream of 250,000 is just beginning.

There's a lot more serious fire to come

LaoPo

Edited December 3, 2010 by LaoPo

[Bagwan]

Isn't it a pity some euro politician didn't pass a law banning American intervention in WWI and WWII. But of course, reciprocity is a hard word to translate. Just be thankful you don't have to finish your post with "Seig Heil".

Isn't it a pity that a law has not been enacted that prevents ignoramuses perpetuating the myth that the US saved Europe from subjugation by Hitler and his bullies. Those in touch with reality would give much of the credit to the Russians - and a handful of British, Commonwealth and European fighter pilots - for that.    

You obviously get your version of history from Hollywood aka a dreamworld. 

[LomSak27]

Is this news?

I mean why did Thailand keep him so long and then deny the 1st ext hearing?

There was money to be made. Viktor was a cash cow. End of story. You do not need wiki leaks to tell you that unless you have your head stuck deep in the sand. If that is the case I worry about such gentle souls living in Thailand.

[Ulysses G.]

You obviously get your version of history from Hollywood aka a dreamworld.

He is not alone in that. Despite the valiant efforts of both Russia and Britain, WW2 would have been lost if not for the USA.

[Thai at Heart]

More worryingly, someone, in apparently quite a senior position, gave statement that has been proven to be completely false, and yet there is no response from the system.