For You Kwiz

[Gfunk]

Iam not saying i invented anything again i have to repeat myself, why is the west so far advanced? this is genarly speaking, this topic was ment to provoke ideas about mental and inttellectual evolution not is kwiz more clever than me i'm talking broad country trends and developmant over centuries the fact remains the west is in front, do you have any sensible ideas as to why this might be????????

[kwiz117]

I posted a reply to your previous thread, but would not discuss further about it coz admins think that it is not suitable to go ahead in that line. You can read it in your previous post.

If we are so undeveloped then why you guys came to our countries and keep us as your colonies for over 100 Yrs. West must be Mad isn't it?

The truth is, we were developed and also developing beyond your control and you stopped it be way of capturing our countries.

That is the hard truth to believe.

[Gfunk]

i didnt want to go down this raod i was hoping for some decent insight into all of our historys, of course we have all developed in different ways, i was just asking what factors from our past mouled the present we now live, but you got mad and now i can only say.....

Yeah the west is stupid for colonising half the world to do its monkey work for them, yes we're stupid for having factories in asia with people working for a doller a day so we can live and enoy life, and travel and be super powers

whatever kwiz, problem is all the westerner's on this forum know im right but to scared to post it

[kwiz117]

i didn't want to go down this road i was hoping for some decent insight into all of our historys, of course we have all developed in different ways, i was just asking what factors from our past mouled the present we now live, but you got mad and now i can only say.....

Yeah the west is stupid for colonising half the world to do its monkey work for them, yes we're stupid for having factories in asia with people working for a doller a day so we can live and enoy life, and travel and be super powers

whatever kwiz, problem is all the westerner's on this forum know im right but to scared to post it

Wonder why you traveled so far to capture our Countries? Hope you have heard about the “Silk Road”. It is going through all Asian, Middle East countries and ended up in your territory (west).

That is the road and the secret that made you develop before us. Otherwise, today I would have asked the same question from you.

All Gold from Africa, Silk from China and all sort our natural resources stolen from us by your people under the name of the King of England or King of France.

Then, you capture our countries, set your own standards, constitutions that created life time divisions among the people live in our countries.

Most of the countries that were under you still suffering from your dummy constitutions and the after effects of the “Roman Dutch Law”.

That is the difference between Developed and Non-Developed today.

For example, if OPEC want to stop all your Development, it can shut down the all Oil Pipelines and selling Oil to your countries. It is very simple. But you have done the trick by capturing the control of all resources directly or indirectly.

If you want to talk about the Development we had before your occupation in this region, better to open another topic.

I advice you not to talk about this much in Asia as all of us knows the truth and we have many evidence to prove.

Can you tell me a single thing that we have stolen from you guys? Can you tell me a single country that we have captured by force in the history?

So you better close this thread now.

[Gfunk]

Ever heard the saying,, to shoot your self in the foot? or, if your in hole stop digging?

thanks for making my point

[kwiz117]

My sympathies..

You better go and see a Doctor soon..coz you’r foot must be bleeding a lot after shooting by your self.

Remember, medical facilities in this undeveloped country might not fit up to your developed standards and the pillow may be too small to facilitate your big head.

I knew you are digging your own grave here..

[Butterfly]

Ever heard the saying,, to shoot your self in the foot? or, if your in hole stop digging?

thanks for making my point

and time for you to shoot yourself in the head.

Stick to Sport smart boy, your arguments make as much sense as a lady boy with rag.

[Membrane]

I think for once I agree with Butterfly.

Gfunk, you're a moron. It's people like you that help to give us westerners a bad rep.

In Pattaya right now and loving it!

Membrane

[Georgie-Porgie]

PSSSST!

I'm pretty sure that kwiz 117 is really Prime Minister Mahathir of Malaysia. Posting on Thai Visa. com is how he relaxes.

[Boo]

I don't want to get involved in the slanging match but I hope gfunk was talking about why the west was technologically more advanced that asian countries? One of the reasons for this is because we went through 2 world wars (plus the cold war, vietnam, Korea & the gulf crisis) & needed to invent technology faster than our enemy. That is why air travel, computors, electronics & weapons developed at the rapid pace they did & still do. This was mainly developed by western countries but is now, particually the technology field, moving to asia minor/india

Do I think western culture is more advanced than asian, no, personally I beleive they were light years ahead of us in culture & philosophy but that those things did not make them adapt at defending their land from the massive armadas & soldiers from the west & therefore that is why most of the eastern world was colonised (except Thailand of course ) What I do like is after all those years of colonial rule, the Europeans (main colonisers) are flocking to these places to spend their hard earned euros/pounds on the places & people they thought so little of a hundred or more years ago

[pantarei]

Gfunk Posted on Tue 2003-12-09, 07:13:37

problem is all the westerner's on this forum know im right but to scared to post it

Another profound statement. What are ALL westerners scared of? Your intellectual superiority??

I am not scared; unlike you I am busy. I will take some time to address your posts this weekend.

In the meantine, a few random thoughts.

Your other post -

“In conclusion the west is more intelligential because it had to be.”

Based on the profundity of your messages, I assume that you are a recent recipient of at least one Nobel Prize in Physics/Chemistry. If so, you should be familiar with the achievements of some of your professional colleagues:

Physics

2002 – Masatoshi Koshiba

1998 –Daniel C. Tsi

1997 – Steven Chu

Chemistry

2002 – Koichi Tanaka

2001 – Ryoji Noyori

2000- Hideki Shirakawa

1999- Ahmed Zewail

Perhaps you should spend some time pondering the following Buddhist proveb: "A fool who knows he is a fool is in a way not the real fool". Source: Buddhist Proverbs, published by the Buddhism Promotion Centre of Thailand, B.E. 2532

You, Sir, appear to be THE REAL fool.

[Guest IT Manager]

A couple of weeks ago, I was beaten black and blue for saying that some posters, gfunkt among them, were morons.

I was told to let adults discuss issues in the ways they wished to or were capable of. Gfukt proves the truth of my view that some people come across this forum by misspelling something and the result of including the word "intelligence" in their search form comes up here, and then they blindly and/or drunkenly stagger off after the nagging mouse and end up here.

So my quandary is to listen to the masses who say "that is a moron" or listen to the 5 who say "let adults move forward in the discussion".

All it does is provide flames then I get hassled for not controlling it.

So. Stop it Gfukt or you are out of here. Now.

[KevinN]

I would just like to say,that to the best of my knowledge,Thailand has never been colonized,the Brits did come and rape the country of all her timber but never colonized it.

[Guest IT Manager]

Far be it from me to point out that a picture of the government may put the lie to that in some ways Kevin.

[Butterfly]

I don't want to get involved in the slanging match but I hope gfunk was talking about why the west was technologically more advanced that asian countries? One of the reasons for this is because we went through 2 world wars (plus the cold war, vietnam, Korea & the gulf crisis) & needed to invent technology faster than our enemy. That is why air travel, computors, electronics & weapons developed at the rapid pace they did & still do. This was mainly developed by western countries but is now, particually the technology field, moving to asia minor/india

Do I think western culture is more advanced than asian, no, personally I beleive they were light years ahead of us in culture & philosophy but that those things did not make them adapt at defending their land from the massive armadas & soldiers from the west & therefore that is why most of the eastern world was colonised (except Thailand of course ) What I do like is after all those years of colonial rule, the Europeans (main colonisers) are flocking to these places to spend their hard earned euros/pounds on the places & people they thought so little of a hundred or more years ago

Now that's an interesting question.

Have Wars made the West more advanced in terms of technology ?

Asians countries (even that shithole of NK) have far more advanced culture than the West (above all the US, which is pure trash, but that's another debate).

But that's does not matter in a war as the Barbarians (the west) usually win at the end by destroying the more advanced "peaceful weak" because we are so ruthless. Kind of sad.

[taxexile]

boo said

the Europeans (main colonisers) are flocking to these places to spend their hard earned euros/pounds on the places & people they thought so little of a hundred or more years ago 

the people travelling and spending here now were not alive one hundred or more years ago.

i feel it is wrong to heap blame and anger on todays generations for the sins committed by our fathers.

to question as to whether asians are more advanced or clever than europeans or vice versa is not a very worthwhile exercise.

who really cares, except those with egos to stuff or a racist drum to beat.

clever at what? technology? the easy part is discovering new technology,the hard part is putting it to worthwhile use. neither asians or europeans and certainly not the americans have mastered that one yet.

as for philosophy,the easy part is theorising,but it takes self control to put any worthwhile philosophy into practice, and in my humble opinion self control is just as much lacking these days in the east as in the west.(i wont even mention america)

as humans i dont think any of us are too clever at the things that really matter.

i will consider myself clever,advanced,successful whatever when i can sleep easy at night on a full stomach and provide the same contentment for my loved ones. whether i sleep in a bamboo hut or a mansion really is immaterial. the feeling of contentment with my life is the only measure of my success and cleverness.it is a work in progress.

the more you want,the less happy you will become, as the efforts required to obtain those things become unsustainable, and the resultant failure to achieve will bring dissatisfaction. it's all down to your moral philosophy, and that has nothing to do with where you were born.

the trick, i suppose is to find a happy balance.

but realistically speaking....we are doomed,all dooomed.

[pantarei]

Gfunk,

There is a difference between technology and civilization. The best example I know of to illustrate the difference is Nazi Germany. Among the many technological breakthroughs achieved in Nazi Germany were the King Tiger tank, the V2 ballistic missiles, and the modern jet engine. As you know, the V-2 rocket was the immediate antecedent of rockets used in space exploration programs in the United States and the Soviet Union. What you may not know is that rocketry was first developed in China (around 1200 AD). Gunpowder (and firework displays) were also invented in China.

source: http://inventors.about.com/library/bl/bl12.htm

My point – an affluent technological powerhouse can exist in a barbarian (uncivilized) society. Given a choice, would you prefer to live in a technologically-advanced Nazi state or in a “Third-World” country?

There is no doubt that the standard of living in the “west” is the highest (for most of the population), as indicated by the following statistics:

http://www.undp.org/hdr2003/pdf/hdr03_HDI.pdf

The “Human Development Index”, used in this study, is more comprehensive than the per-capita-income number. The west’s affluence (for some) is the resultant of a number of factors, including technological progress, plunder, socio-economic conditions (less emphasis on the caste system and more opportunities for upward mobility), etc.

My personal experiences and published statistical data on the proportion of Asian students in elite western universities strongly suggest that technological progress and the standard of living of a country does not correlate with intelligence of its population. In short, your statement “In conclusion the west is more intelligential because it had to be” is un-substantiated. What is the evidence for your statement?

As indicated in my previous post, I have worked in R&D with many Asians born and reared in their old country, and they were at least as intelligent as their western co-workers. I say “at least” because, on the average, the Asians were more math- and physics-savvy. I am sure you are aware of the fact that many Asian-born and Asian-American scientists have been awarded Nobel Prizes in science. Source: http://almaz.com/nobel/physics/physics.html

“In 1999, the National Academy of Sciences released a study noting that over half of U.S. engineering doctorates are awarded to foreign students. Where are Smith and Jones? Why are members of these very small groups doing so much of the important research for the United States? That's easy. They're smart, they go into the sciences, and they work hard…..It's not affirmative action. They produce. The qualifications of these students can easily be checked. They have them.” Source: http://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm

If the difference in technological progress is not caused by differences in intelligence, what are the factors responsible for the (TEMPORARY and narrowing) technological gap between the west and the east?

I will try, in my simplistic way, to use an analogy. One of the definitions of “luck” is: “luck is where opportunity meets preparation”. Well, “technological progress is where intelligence meets opportunity”. It is a very simplistic definition, but it is a fact that a brilliant person will not make much progress without being given the opportunity to put his/her brilliance to use. IMHO, based on conversation with many Asian scientists working in the US, the opportunities in Asia are limited.

Many of the Asian values are much more humane than western ones, e.g., strong family values, respect for the elders. Part of the “value package” is excessive (by western standards) respect for authority. This happens to be a Major impediment to progress. The inability of students and “junior” professors to challenge “senior” (senile?) professors severely limits scientific and technological advances. I was told of an instance where a student challenged her professor because she believed (correctly) that his conclusions were bull. He “won” the argument by concluding: “it is so because I say it is so”.

Here is some limited circumstantial evidence illustrating the importance of academic freedom (I do not have time to go through the lists of all Nobel Prize winners, faculty at MIT, Caltech, etc.) :

Daniel C. Tsui, 1998 Nobel Prize in Physics

Place of birth: Henan, China

Education: Ph.D. in Physics 1967 at University of Chicago (U.S.A.)

Residence: New Jersey, U.S.A.

Steven Chu, 1997 Nobel Prize in Physics

Place of birth: St. Louis, Missouri, U.S.A.

Education: Ph.D.'76 from the University of California, Berkeley

Residence: California, U.S.A.

Now, would Dr. Tsui possess less “natural intelligence” (your term) if he stayed in Henan? NO. Would he have won the Nobel Prize had he stayed in Henan? Highly Unlikely. Would Dr. Chu be less intelligent if his ancestors stayed in China? Would he have won the Nobel if he lived in China? = “technological (and scientific) progress is where intelligence meets opportunity”.

It is likely that one of the results of globalization will be (partial?) westernization of the East. Old folks will be discarded to “nursing(?) homes”, more divorces, more single parents, more crime, a bonanza for weight-reduction shysters, less wai’ing, no respect for authority, superior technology. China will become a superpower. Kwiz’s children will post inane messages bashing China, rather than the USA. ######’s children will wonder why the president of China needs so many spooks to protect him.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The reinvention of the closed topic serves no purpose whatsoever, other than to provide gfunkt with another opportunity to ramble on aimlessly. TOPIC CLOSED and funkt I wouldn't want to see you start it again