Briton Found Naked, Tied To The Bars Of A Cell In Pattaya Police Station

[gamini]

This topic should be "We deserve better treatment than others in spite of how we behave because we are British"

The fact is there are tens of thousands of decent good Burmese illegal immigrants imprisoned under terrible conditions in Thai Jails

with no medical help. I am much more concerned about helping them than I am about a fellow Briton just because he is British.

[tropo]

Yeah usually tied up with whingers.

Find a few abuses in the UK and post about them for something to do then I cant say "go home whinger"!

In the meantime if you really live here then do so. And remember if the grass is greener in the UK then it is still

there waiting for you.

You whinge about whingers...does that make you any less of a whinger?

Why would you assume that a person replying on this thread is from the UK?

I'm not a UK citizen by I still feel sorry for this badly treated UK citizen...isn't that weird? It left me wondering how an Australian would have fared in the same predicament.

You need to stop justifying every bad deed perpetrated by the Thai police.

[spidermike007]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

You are absolutely correct about that presumption. They would be screaming bloody murder! It is a fact of life that the Thai

people are scared to death of farengs. It manifests itself in many, many peculiar ways. But an outward disdain for foreigners,

and an omnipresent belief in our inferiority is something that all foreigners who live here have to contend with. Though I realize

it is an unpopular, and fabulously incorrect thing to say, the Thai people may have been better off, had they been colonized. I

am convinced they would be far more cosmopolitan, far more tolerant, less xenophobic, more open minded, and perhaps far

more progressive as a result. Just look at the neighboring countries that suffered that fate.

[saintofsilence]

Sad to see this happen why weren't his family advised

His family either disowned him years ago or are exactly like him. There are tens of thosands of people like this in the UK. They are mostly beyond help. When people like this have whole families just like them. Just visit one of the countless council housing estates in Britain. There's not much th consule can do. In the UK they are left to sleep rough. These people don't want help, they just want to take drugs and alcohol 24/7.

I don't understand why people are shocked. If you see someone like this lying in the street in the UK, or anywhere else, no-one stops to help.

If it's so shocking to you, then do something about helping these people. There are tens of thousand that you could help. In fact the UK has over 300,000 heroin addicts. That's a good place for you to start,

Pattaya - what do you expect?

Here here. I think there are more immediate replies to this article than most others ever see in weeks. If all the UK citizens reading this are so applaed they should contribute their time and money to such cases. Fat chance while their is a beer bar open.

It was my understanding that if a foreigner was put in jail in Thailand that his family would be advised.

[Melpomene]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

You are absolutely correct about that presumption. They would be screaming bloody murder! It is a fact of life that the Thai

people are scared to death of farengs. It manifests itself in many, many peculiar ways. But an outward disdain for foreigners,

and an omnipresent belief in our inferiority is something that all foreigners who live here have to contend with. Though I realize

it is an unpopular, and fabulously incorrect thing to say, the Thai people may have been better off, had they been colonized. I

am convinced they would be far more cosmopolitan, far more tolerant, less xenophobic, more open minded, and perhaps far

more progressive as a result. Just look at the neighboring countries that suffered that fate.

You mean open minded like you :lol:

Stunning insight - shouldn't you be on the Daily Mail board ??

Oh and just noticed your last statement - must have missed it due to the tears of laughter. Neighboring countries ?? Burma, Laos, Cambodia are shining examples of the good colonization can do......

Edited December 9, 2010 by Melpomene

[tropo]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

You are absolutely correct about that presumption. They would be screaming bloody murder! It is a fact of life that the Thai

people are scared to death of farengs. It manifests itself in many, many peculiar ways. But an outward disdain for foreigners,

and an omnipresent belief in our inferiority is something that all foreigners who live here have to contend with. Though I realize

it is an unpopular, and fabulously incorrect thing to say, the Thai people may have been better off, had they been colonized. I

am convinced they would be far more cosmopolitan, far more tolerant, less xenophobic, more open minded, and perhaps far

more progressive as a result. Just look at the neighboring countries that suffered that fate.

Yeah, just look at Laos, Cambodia, Burma and Vietnam. All models of democracy and fair play....and as for the Muslim state of Malaysia...isn't that a great place to live?

Edited December 9, 2010 by tropo

[ChiangMaiThai]

I agree with you completely. The diplomats are all too busy attending functions at 5 star hotels and the like (and in some cases, it is seems spying for their home countries) to deal with something as trivial as this. Disgusting. Shame on you British Embassy.

You know this for a fact do you?

I know for a fact that they knew a fellow citizen with mental health problems was naked and chained to bars in a police cell in Pattaya.

I know for a fact that they were either too incompetent or too uncaring to bother to use their influence to at least get him showered, clothed, fed, medical check up etc.

I know for a fact that if this naked person was a British citizen of power and prestige that the embassy would have whisked him out of that cell long, long ago.

Wake up.

[geriatrickid]

arghhhhhhhh, the embassy had to be advised in a timely fashion and it had to be allowed access.Can anyone show that was the case? If not, why accuse blindly?

This is all about mental health care in Thailand and nothing more. It sucks, it's at the same level as it was when there was a Bedlam.

This is 1950's era USA, Canada, Australia, UK, Netherlands etc. The Thai approach to mental health is to drug, to restrain and to deny there is mental illness. Part of the problem is the culture. The same culture many of you all love. Deal with it.

[raylo]

This topic should be "We deserve better treatment than others in spite of how we behave because we are British"

The fact is there are tens of thousands of decent good Burmese illegal immigrants imprisoned under terrible conditions in Thai Jails

with no medical help. I am much more concerned about helping them than I am about a fellow Briton just because he is British.

Well said on all counts

[morejunk]

Wavefloater

BTW, this is a really aggressive forum. Not much fun that way. I guess posting with anonymity make a lot of people act that way.

Aggressive forum? ThaiVisa is a heavily moderated and controlled environment. Just curious Wavefloater, were you sitting in a big stuffed chair, on a fluffy pillow, wearing silk jammies, sipping tea and eating little cookies, when you made that comment about aggressive? Welcome to the real world.

Edited December 9, 2010 by morejunk

[wolf5370]

as a Brit this is a disgusting story, i thought consul had been replaced by well kown Pattaya resident, note the omission of hounary, one before same catergory. only decent one was D Covey in Samui. this should cost somebody in Bangkok there job. time they all read the mission statement again.

Wait wait, so the Thai police creates a problem and the UK Embassy/Consul has to solve it?

As far as I know, Embassies do have a strict policy on those cases, and if a UK citizen is "impounded" in a police cell, he may have not been registered.

All the blame goes to the Royal Thai Police and the Pattaya Police in specific; did the victim has aids? was this tested? why was the prisoner naked? did he do that himself? all questions.........and of course no answers.

It clearly staes in the article that the UK embassy was aware of this man and consular assistance was underway. What also is self evident is that this man was shown no empathy or compassion by any of the authorities, be they Thai or foreign. I agree its a disgusting event and one all parties invoved should be ashamed of, there is no justification for this. What is also depressing is the cold black hearted comment by some posters. It was great to see that some cared enough to get involved and resolved the issue.

But no-one cares enough to help before these people end up in a police cell. What have you done recently to help smackheads, crackheads, alcoholics or others? They are sleeping rough around all cities. I don't see anyone helping. How about you start volunteering instead of slating the comments on here. These people choose this way of life.

So who's giving out the work permits for volunteering then? The answer to this question is - its illegal to do so. Also, I gather most people are not so shocked that there is a mentally challenged/drug addled/alcoholic/etc in the streets of Thailand, more the way he has been treated (or not treated!) since the authorities took him in (arrested him) and thereby took the responsibility of care until released - this is basic human rights expected when any human (regardless of crime, race, or any other factor) is incarcerated by the state. I am also fairly sure he didn't choose to be arrested either - so he did not choose this way of life - more so if he has mental issues, then it was a choice fostered on him both by nature and by state.

I hope this does make it into the international press (British in particluar) - then with the world pointing at them, maybe Thailand may look more seriously at mental health issues here as well as learning to adhere to the human rights they have signed up to. Also it may cause news UK tabloids, like the Sun/Mirron etc, to push for publuc sympathy and he may get some money for treatment and repatriation. Here's hoping.

[theoldgit]

I know for a fact that they knew a fellow citizen with mental health problems was naked and chained to bars in a police cell in Pattaya. Yes according to the reports that is the case, with the authority responsible for detaining this hapless individual failing to treat him to him with dignity and to internationally accepted standards.

I know for a fact that they were either too incompetent or too uncaring to bother to use their influence to at least get him showered, clothed, fed, medical check up etc. You know that for a fact do you, well I bow to your superior knowledge.

I know for a fact that if this naked person was a British citizen of power and prestige that the embassy would have whisked him out of that cell long, long ago. Again, you know that for a fact do you, well again i bow to your superior knowledge.

Wake up. I'm very awake thank you, but I am clearly not as expert or as knowledgeable as you.

[creck]

First, it is most certainly wrong for any organisation in a position like a foreign delegation to Assume that local authorities are adhering to international standards when dealing with their own countries citizens. It seems to me that an important part of their duty is to ensure that this happens. OK, fair point. Whilst they should be able to assume that the Thai authorities are adhering to international standards, they cannot take this assumption for granted. However they cannot just barge into every prison and police cell area to check conditions, not sure they would be allowed to do so. I suspect this though of thing would have to be taken up at a fairly high level.

Second, I do not believe that British delegations are in any way responsible for Hong Kong nationals. Even twenty years ago, I discovered that a Hong Kong national working with me in China could get no assistance or recognition from the British staff because he was travelling on Chinese papers. I am sure that now (Hong Kong is part of China) any Hong Kong resident would be treated the same as any Chinese citizen – unless he had a British Passport. I do know for a fact that the prison team have responsibility for Hong Kong Nationals, I have visited some, I'm not sure of the status of these people, maybe they hold British National Overseas passports that some Hong Kong nationals were entitled to after the hand over, I'm not sure.

This is going away from the point of this thread but it seems that far more Hong Kong residents obtained British National passports than I ever thought would be possible. I know they are not British citizens, but nearly half of them did obtain this specially introduced passport. I don’t know what proportion that is now, presumably less.

Thank you for pointing out, as I said, they must hold a British passport. This is not the same as any Hong Kong national getting assistance. Though what assitance that is seems to be in debate.

[caf]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

You are absolutely correct about that presumption. They would be screaming bloody murder! It is a fact of life that the Thai

people are scared to death of farengs. It manifests itself in many, many peculiar ways. But an outward disdain for foreigners,

and an omnipresent belief in our inferiority is something that all foreigners who live here have to contend with. Though I realize

it is an unpopular, and fabulously incorrect thing to say, the Thai people may have been better off, had they been colonized. I

am convinced they would be far more cosmopolitan, far more tolerant, less xenophobic, more open minded, and perhaps far

more progressive as a result. Just look at the neighboring countries that suffered that fate.

You mean open minded like you :lol:

Stunning insight - shouldn't you be on the Daily Mail board ??

Oh and just noticed your last statement - must have missed it due to the tears of laughter. Neighboring countries ?? Burma, Laos, Cambodia are shining examples of the good colonization can do......

Spidermonkey was referring to the thai fear of farangs and their xenophobia.

On his closing point he did not mention any country. And you did not mention Singapore. A better examople

[raylo]

Yeah usually tied up with whingers.

Find a few abuses in the UK and post about them for something to do then I cant say "go home whinger"!

In the meantime if you really live here then do so. And remember if the grass is greener in the UK then it is still

there waiting for you.

You whinge about whingers...does that make you any less of a whinger?

Why would you assume that a person replying on this thread is from the UK?

I'm not a UK citizen by I still feel sorry for this badly treated UK citizen...isn't that weird? It left me wondering how an Australian would have fared in the same predicament.

You need to stop justifying every bad deed perpetrated by the Thai police.

You are correct in that I must be a bit of acomplainer. I stand corrected. Thank you for enlightening me.

You still have no evidence to blame the police or the consul. When the facts come out, if they do, and if either are at

fault I will stand along side them.

My point all along is there was an original post and that is what the subject pertains to then everybody (including me) has gone off

on a tangent blaming Thailand (police) and the B Consul.

You are no different except you have expressed your sorry for the plight of someone who was found in such a manner.

I haven't because I aint got the facts Ma'am. For all I know the jail cell was subcontracted out from one of the local S&M dens

An Australian would have fared the same in the same circumstances - all things being equal - all so called fisrt worlders would have.

[caf]

BTW, this is a really aggressive forum. Not much fun that way. I guess posting with anonymity make a lot of people act that way.

Aggressive forum? ThaiVisa is a heavily moderated and controlled environment. Just curious Wavefloater, were you sitting in a big stuffed chair, on a fluffy pillow, wearing silk jammies, sipping tea and eating little cookies, when you made that comment about aggressive? Welcome to the real world.

Your post itself is a bit "aggressive" Morejunk.

[Max4243]

Whether the British Embassy is doing their job or not is another issue. The Thai police should take the blame for not taking any action like referring him to a medical facility instead of the Mai Pen Lai attitude and let him rot there in jail and cuffed in that horrified living condition. The police should at least contact the British Embassy for assistance if they don't know what to do. If they have done so and the British Embassy has not done anything, then the British Embassy should bear the bashing.

[smedly]

This is something totally unacceptable; he looks like someone from the Auschwitz. Death camp. And appears he has been beaten and starved.

It`s obvious the guy has extreme physical and mental problems and that no one wants to take any responsibility so why not simply let him die and sweep the matter under the carpet. If this were a dog people would be up in arms about in.

When I was a young child an Aunt told me that a human life is the most precious thing on Earth. Later I came to realise that this is all <deleted>. Looking at the photos has ruined the start of my day, heartbreaking for sure.

I in no way blame the Thai police, because there is no infrastructure in Thailand for dealing with situations like this. But there is no excuse for the lack of concern by the British foreign office. He should be taken back to the UK and put into care. I am sure that if this guy were some wanted drug dealer or high profile criminal the British authorities would be bending over backwards to have him brought back to blighty.

This is an absolutely disgusting affair and as for holding a British passport, they can shove it where the sun don't shine, it`s worthless and means nothing.

This proves that the cesspit Pattaya requires sanitizing. Restore it back to the resort it used to be 15 years ago instead of being a magnet for the world's undesirables.

i think part of the problem here is that this poor man is not fit for travel, how do you get him to the UK or anywhere else for that matter, sad affair indeed with no easy answers

[wolf5370]

This topic should be "We deserve better treatment than others in spite of how we behave because we are British"

The fact is there are tens of thousands of decent good Burmese illegal immigrants imprisoned under terrible conditions in Thai Jails

with no medical help. I am much more concerned about helping them than I am about a fellow Briton just because he is British.

Well said on all counts

Well Said? To me its pure garbage - perhaps it should read "Mentally ill person Found Naked, Tied To The Bars Of A Cell In Pattaya Police Station" - would it be acceptable for people to comment then? Why does it have to be about nationality? Why do some idiots here ignore the fact that this is a human being treated inhumainly - it may well be that he is a Brit - it may well be that it is only reported because he is a Brit, but is that a bad thing? Just because the Thai press ignores it, should the English language papers or international press? The fact that Expat paper's report on mistreatment of Expats is strange to you? Its a problem? Is it not really more of an issue that: 1> A human is treated this way; 2> When other nationals (Burmese etc as the post quoted) are treated this way that their own governments/press/etc do not pick up o it; 3> Thais apparantly think this is acceptable due to his apparant mental health issues. ??? By what logic does it follow that just because no one shouts about Burmese mis treatment (ignoring the fact that many groups actually do), that no opne shouls comment on other nationalities - that they should specifical;ly ignore their own countrymen simply becuase of that fact? Sheesh some people!

[jesters]

Isn't Howard Miller the new rep for the British Embassy? Wonder why he isn't doing his job? How weird!

Maybe busy with Foreign Police Volunteers Christmas party after they had been in the bars to crack down short time rooms.

[taff33]

Fly him back to the UK, first class,second class or cattle class who would like to sit next to him,some one would have to.

[DoctorG]

This has certainly been one of the longest threads that I have read, but does not seem to have produced anything meaningful.

- UK Consul/Embassy at fault

- police fault

- Thai society fault

- stop whinging, and, I am not whinging, you are

- go home if you don't like it here (the usual comment)

I have neither the full facts, nor the solution, but for any person to be treated this way, regardless of nationality, is a disgrace, but it happens in many countries, not just LOS.

I guess it was not all that long ago that Western nations considered this sort of treatment to be normal too, so let's not blame the host country too much. They are still better than China.

Just be glad that this sort of event can be reported upon in a (relatively) free society.

[jayjay0]

My emotion, what the <deleted> am I doing here living in this Cesspit of a country, disgusting Thailand. The police are also the biggest problem here, they are a disgrace they are!

Good question why are you here? Tell us we don't know only you do.

Are you taking advantage of what you perceive Thailand to be like?

[meom]

Fly him back to the UK, first class,second class or cattle class who would like to sit next to him,some one would have to.

A couple of shots of Haldol would sort that out.

[MrJohnson]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

You are absolutely correct about that presumption. They would be screaming bloody murder! It is a fact of life that the Thai

people are scared to death of farengs. It manifests itself in many, many peculiar ways. But an outward disdain for foreigners,

and an omnipresent belief in our inferiority is something that all foreigners who live here have to contend with. Though I realize

it is an unpopular, and fabulously incorrect thing to say, the Thai people may have been better off, had they been colonized. I

am convinced they would be far more cosmopolitan, far more tolerant, less xenophobic, more open minded, and perhaps far

more progressive as a result. Just look at the neighboring countries that suffered that fate.

You mean open minded like you :lol:

Stunning insight - shouldn't you be on the Daily Mail board ??

Oh and just noticed your last statement - must have missed it due to the tears of laughter. Neighboring countries ?? Burma, Laos, Cambodia are shining examples of the good colonization can do......

Spidermonkey was referring to the thai fear of farangs and their xenophobia.

On his closing point he did not mention any country. And you did not mention Singapore. A better examople

Singapore is a one-party state with no press freedom. Hardly a beacon of democracy. Great economy and a water supply dosed with Prozac by the look of it. And xenophobia ain't a national character trait exclusive to Thailand

[theoldgit]

I guess it was not all that long ago that Western nations considered this sort of treatment to be normal too, so let's not blame the host country too much. They are still better than China.

OK time to lighten this up now, some years ago I hosted a visit of Chinese Government Officials in London, they were touring an Immigration Detention Centre that had been contracted out. At the wash up session at the end of the tour one of the Chinese Officials asked me how did we ensure that the human rights of those in custody was maintained in contracted out establishments, seeing the expression on my face, the FCO guy accompanying the visitors kicked me under the table, I then gave a stock answer.

[caf]

Fly him back to the UK, first class,second class or cattle class who would like to sit next to him,some one would have to.

And if you fell on hard times ????

[MrJohnson]

This has certainly been one of the longest threads that I have read, but does not seem to have produced anything meaningful.

- UK Consul/Embassy at fault

- police fault

- Thai society fault

- stop whinging, and, I am not whinging, you are

- go home if you don't like it here (the usual comment)

I have neither the full facts, nor the solution, but for any person to be treated this way, regardless of nationality, is a disgrace, but it happens in many countries, not just LOS.

I guess it was not all that long ago that Western nations considered this sort of treatment to be normal too, so let's not blame the host country too much. They are still better than China.

Just be glad that this sort of event can be reported upon in a (relatively) free society.

Indeed. Good point.

[jesters]

Howard Miller Appointed New British Honorary Consul For Pattaya

http://www.thaivisa....age__hl__miller

They are to bust in walking street

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbFAqKpGV8M

[Wavefloater]

Posted by caf

"Aggressive forum? ThaiVisa is a heavily moderated and controlled environment. Just curious Wavefloater, were you sitting in a big stuffed chair, on a fluffy pillow, wearing silk jammies, sipping tea and eating little cookies, when you made that comment about aggressive? Welcome to the real world"

LMAO

Thanks for proving my point so beautify. I couldn't have hoped for a better replay as an example.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Wavefloater