Thai Courtesy Towards Foreign People And Mixed-Raced Couples

[CanadianInChina]

Hi everyone!

I am a Canadian living in Shanghai, China. I'm thinking about moving to Thailand in the coming years, but I am a little concerned about how the Thai people act towards foreign (Caucasian, in my case) people. To be honest, China has been a big disappointment for me as the people here are rarely polite towards foreign people and act even worse if they see mixed-race couples together. My wife is Chinese and we have unfortunately encountered prejudice views and actions on a day-to-day basis here (and it keeps getting worse as the Chinese economy grows). After three long years, we are ready for a change, but we want to make sure where we end up will be more welcoming of us.

So, to you expats, please give me an honest response to how you feel foreign people are treated in Thailand.

Thank you!

[culicine]

I'm Australian and my wife is Thai. We have a son together. In my experience, you would be more judged on how you present yourself and your actions towards other people rather than simply being foreigners. As a family we have never really had any problems with treatment by Thais in the 11 years I've been here. Mind you we don't live in a tourist area; how you will be treated in Puket or Pattaya will be different as their economies are driven by tourist income. So to get on with Thais well: smile, dress politely and be patient (you won;t get anywhere with Thais if you get angry with them).

[mmushr00m]

Fellow Canuck here with Thai spouse. No problems but like mentioned above, it does depend on the area. The ordinary people are quite nice and friendly. However there will be certain people, Thais, expats and tourist who will automatically assume that you met her in a bar, you are a sexpat/sex tourist, she is a bar girl, the relationship is money driven etc..... Have a browse through this forum, you will see what I mean.

[jdinasia]

I'm Australian and my wife is Thai. We have a son together. In my experience, you would be more judged on how you present yourself and your actions towards other people rather than simply being foreigners. As a family we have never really had any problems with treatment by Thais in the 11 years I've been here. Mind you we don't live in a tourist area; how you will be treated in Puket or Pattaya will be different as their economies are driven by tourist income. So to get on with Thais well: smile, dress politely and be patient (you won;t get anywhere with Thais if you get angry with them).

I agree.

How you are treated by MOST Thais will just be a reflection on how you :

1) Present yourself

2) Get along in a different culture

I work and live alongside Thai people on a daily basis and I feel that I am treated very well. The fact that I am gay doesn't seem to bother anyone. As a couple, me and my partner have only run into outright rudeness once. That was in HuaHin (a tourist town frequented by BKK Thais) and an older Thai couple were a tad rude to my partner. I broke Thai social custom by walking up to them (smiling) and handing them my partner's business card. I then wai'd and walked off. My partner just laughed and said to ignore older couples in the future.

In Phuket (in a less touristed area) where I lived for a year we encountered no problems, nor do we here in Chiang Mai.

In Pattaya or Patong (Phuket) you will be looked at as a source of income from the tourist economy. That means more issues. In BKK it is the same in some small areas but mostly you will be looked at as yourself and judged on your own merits. Should you happen to live upcountry and away from areas with other white people you will be seen as a bit of an oddity but the people adjust quickly if you adapt to local culture.

[Loz]

Have you thought of moving to Canada? I find the people very nice there and they speak the language too. Food is good, winter sports are plentiful and you can travel around safe in the knowledge that your social expectations are highly likely to be met.

Alternatively yeah you could come to Thailand, but best to leave your preconceptions at the immigration counter and just bring an open mind and willingness to adapt. You'll be fine.

Only two rules to remember:

Don't sweat the small stuff.

Its ALL small stuff.

:jap:

[Berkshire]

Firstly, I'm intrigued that it's that bad in China. As for Thailand, my honest opinion is that they treat interracial couples better here than in the US. But as some other posters have said, much of it has to do with how you present yourselves. If your wife dresses and acts like a bargirl, and you dress and act like a sexpat, then that's how you'll be treated.

[PattayaParent]

You're likely to have more problems with other Farangs here than with the Thais.

[CanadianInChina]

Many thanks for the responses, guys. I have met Thai people in many countries before and have always been impressed with their well-mannered spirit and 'smiley' nature (but things can always be different when you see another culture first hand). I don't doubt my wife and I will love Thailand, but I just wanted to hear it from people who have lived there.

Regarding China, I'm sorry if I gave any of you the impression that EVERY Chinese person is rude. That is very, very far from the truth. But many Chinese have really started to get this nationalistic vibe about them and their growing international role in the 21st century (punctuated by the Olympics and the EXPO). When I first came, a lot of the rude comments went under my radar, but now that I can speak Chinese fairly fluently I unfortunately have to tune in to the misconceptions and blatant racism that you'll hear from time to time. I think it stems from two things: (1) many Chinese feel they've been hurt time and again historically by foreign people and (2) ignorance of mainland Chinese people towards cultures outside China’s borders (China’s only really been open to travelers for the past thirty years, and most traveler’s stick to the coastal cities).

It’s mainly day-to-day things that bother us. My wife gets sexually harassed on the subway constantly (very common, beware if you plan to come here and are an Asian woman). Whack shacks everywhere (massage parlours). Chinese men will try to hit on or taunt my wife when we are out (and no, she does not dress provocatively or look like a ‘bar girl’, my wife says they do this because they see her as a ‘traitor’). We get photographed from time to time. I’m told there is sort of an underground culture to photograph foreigners and make fun of them on the internet (but who knows). We have decided that this is not the environment we want to raise kids in, so we’re going to look for something better. Japan would be great, so we’re thinking of checking it out at some point, too.

Anyway, if you are planning on coming to China I would suggest you try living here for a month first. If you can afford to live in the expat compounds, you’ll have no problems. Also, Chinese cities vary in temperament. I think Shanghai is probably one of the worst for the way foreign people are viewed here. Cities like Beijing (I’ve heard) or Hang Zhou (I know) are much more open-minded and welcoming. China is also a much better place to live in if you can’t speak Chinese (weird).

[CanadianInChina]

What's a Farang?

[hawthorne]

100% agree with majority it depends on you and your wifes presentation and actions to how you are accepted. Don't come here and expect others to accept you on your terms. Customs are different and there is a uniqueness in all things here. Have an open mind Thais do not accept people based color and nationality or who your spouse is old, young, same sex or color of skin. There are bigots everywhere just like thieves. Part of life my friend.

[waza]

Hi I am an Aussie living in Zhongshan in southern China with a Thai wife of Chinese decent. We are well accepted here, in fact a bit of a novelty and the locals go out of their way to be friendly and helpfull. Our biggest problem would be the language barrier as we both dont speak Mandarin and as the wife looks Chinese they cant understand why she cant comprehend them.

But to the OP's question, we are also well accepted in Thailand. However, you will be treated differently by the Thai state and by individuals. Farrangs are charged more, for example, enterance fees for parks and exibitions to food in the street. Also as a farrang you are considered wealthy and you are expected to spread your wealth around. You will be considered a fair target for police and government corruption and will have inferior right to Thai nationals, for example if you involved in a motor accident you will be considered 100% in the wrong no matter whos fault the accident is. PS: White skinned foriegners are called farrangs in Thailand, a term you will get used to.

[Tonto21]

What's a Farang?

What is a Farang?A farang, I've been lead to believe is a white foreigners, a westerner. Farang is short for fa-rangseet, the Thai word for French. French explorers were the first westerners the Thais encountered. I also hear they opened the first 7/11 in 1862!!

But keep reading, I think you'll get a few more explanations regarding “Farang”

[thanew]

China is also a much better place to live in if you can't speak Chinese (weird).

Strangely enough, I agree.

I've ran into the exact same things that you've described, except not in Shanghai, but in Macau. Although I'm not married to a Chinese, but a Thai which I think may actually make things worse given the way that the locals here treat SE Asians.

[dominique355]

Prejudice against different races, cultures, looks exist everywhere and even in Thailand.

I have been married to a Thai wife for over 12 years and I have experienced prejudiced people everywhere. Here in Thailand, surprising as it may seem, the most prejudiced people are in the hotel / restaurant business and are Thai, where it happened more than once that my wife was totally ignored, bordering rudeness, while I was treated like a king.

But (forgive me the expression) "normal" people are mostly very friendly to both of us, especially when they learn that me and our kids do speak (a little, in my case) Thai.

I have never experienced prejudices against my wife from expats here, but that might be because of the kind of people I associate with.

A constant cause for making me upset is the dual pricing in many places, including government places (eg. Kao Yai, Kho Samet, temples etc), but since I have a Thai driver's license this is much better.

[JurgenG]

I'm surprised by your bad experience in China, but every experience is personal.

Thailand, compared to China, is like a big holiday resort.

People are nice but are working for tips.

Management don't mix with guests.

If you're comfortable with that, you can have a good life here

[CanadianInChina]

Hi I am an Aussie living in Zhongshan in southern China with a Thai wife of Chinese decent. We are well accepted here, in fact a bit of a novelty and the locals go out of their way to be friendly and helpfull. Our biggest problem would be the language barrier as we both dont speak Mandarin and as the wife looks Chinese they cant understand why she cant comprehend them.

But to the OP's question, we are also well accepted in Thailand. However, you will be treated differently by the Thai state and by individuals. Farrangs are charged more, for example, enterance fees for parks and exibitions to food in the street. Also as a farrang you are considered wealthy and you are expected to spread your wealth around. You will be considered a fair target for police and government corruption and will have inferior right to Thai nationals, for example if you involved in a motor accident you will be considered 100% in the wrong no matter whos fault the accident is. PS: White skinned foriegners are called farrangs in Thailand, a term you will get used to.

Wow, I am so happy that you have encountered this during your time in China. I have heard others say that some areas of China are not like Shanghai and that people are judged based on the quality of their character rather than their ethnic heritage. Maybe we (my wife and I) should travel to southern China more. I've been to maybe 20+ cities in central China and most are something similar to Shanghai (but Shanghai is the worst for blatant racism towards foreign people, in my opinion). I've been to some Guang Dong cities, which seem alright apart from the crime and rampant sex trade.

Anyways, can I ask you which you prefer: living in China or living in Thailand? And why? (Sorry if this sounds like a question from a high school homework assignment)

Thanks.

[JurgenG]

I have heard others say that some areas of China are not like Shanghai and that people are judged based on the quality of their character rather than their ethnic heritage. Maybe we (my wife and I) should travel to southern China more. I've been to maybe 20+ cities in central China and most are something similar to Shanghai (but Shanghai is the worst for blatant racism towards foreign people, in my opinion). I've been to some Guang Dong cities, which seem alright apart from the crime and rampant sex trade.

Honestly, have you ever set foot in China ?

[TAWP]

You will be judged based on your perceived income-level and so will your wife. Together you will be judged based on what background-story they can slap onto you - if you both are of similar age, dress proper etc you will not have any overly obvious issue. But you will of course never be fully accepted, they are a closed group.

[thaicbr]

"for example if you involved in a motor accident you will be considered 100% in the wrong no matter whos fault the accident is"

This is actually NOT TRUE. Having been involved in an accident and it was the truck driver who was blamed by the witnesses and police. His insurance repaired my bike.

[GuestHouse]

I think you'll find attitudes in Thailand a lot more welcoming than in China - but I'll give you a caution.

Do not introduce your wife here on TV - you already have done to an extent, I'd advise you don't give any more information or discuss her any further on TV.

There's a nasty streak running through too many TV members who jump on any and every opportunity to attack other people's choice of partner - I'd advise not feeding it.

[CanadianInChina]

Lived here over 3 years. You?

[CanadianInChina]

Thanks for the warning, but isn't the forum pretty anonymous?

[CanadianInChina]

Prejudice against different races, cultures, looks exist everywhere and even in Thailand.

I have been married to a Thai wife for over 12 years and I have experienced prejudiced people everywhere. Here in Thailand, surprising as it may seem, the most prejudiced people are in the hotel / restaurant business and are Thai, where it happened more than once that my wife was totally ignored, bordering rudeness, while I was treated like a king.

But (forgive me the expression) "normal" people are mostly very friendly to both of us, especially when they learn that me and our kids do speak (a little, in my case) Thai.

I have never experienced prejudices against my wife from expats here, but that might be because of the kind of people I associate with.

A constant cause for making me upset is the dual pricing in many places, including government places (eg. Kao Yai, Kho Samet, temples etc), but since I have a Thai driver's license this is much better.

What dual pricing are you talking about?

[GuestHouse]

Thanks for the warning, but isn't the forum pretty anonymous?

Yes, it's the anonymity that gives some guys enough balls to make the personal attacks they do.

[JurgenG]

Lived here over 3 years. You?

Including internship, 5 years between Guangszhou, Dongguan and Shenzhen

True, there is a "crime and sex" underworld, like everywhere in the world. If you want to mix with them, it's a personal choice, but you can have a very active social life and never have any contact with them, as I say, it's a personal choice.

[Pacificperson]

My advice is to thicken up your skin a bit. You need to be a bit like a duck and let it roll of of your back. There is an overtone of racial superiority in most cultures, and you can not run away from it. Your children will learn to cope with it. It may be easiest for them in a place where there are larger numbers of mixed race kids around.

From your posts, it sounds as if you and your wife are younger. Some of the abuse that your wife is getting may simply be due to her age.

I have been married to a Chinese woman almost 20 years now. When we were younger, the first question that many Chinese would ask us was "Where did you meet?" Implicit in the question seemed to be questioning of my wife's virtue. I often wanted to answer "in a piano bar", but I let it go.

Finally, going from China to Thailand to escape the commercial sex trade does not make sense. It is much more in the open (in your face) in Thailand.

[DP25]

What dual pricing are you talking about?

At some government run things, like national parks, zoos, museums, ancient ruins, etc foreigners are charged more than Thais. Still not expensive, if you become a resident or have a work permit you will get the Thai price though. Overcharging sometimes in tourist zones for other private run businesses but almost never outside of them, it's not something to worry about and I've never had a problem.

And yeah the Thai attitude is a lot less hostile towards mixed race than many other Asian countries. As you said some Chinese are experiencing nationalism and anger over past wrongs. Thais generally don't have this, they weren't colonized by the west and they didn't suffer horrible atrocities during WWII and don't have the same complex a lot of others sometimes get over this. No one is going to ever harass your wife on the subway, randomly take pictures of the two of you, or really comment on you at all.

[Xircal]

What's a Farang?

Definition of the word Farang

[GuestHouse]

Thanks for the warning, but isn't the forum pretty anonymous?

Yes, it's the anonymity that gives some guys enough balls to make the personal attacks they do.

Agreed,

In fact if you were in my neck of the woods l would invite you for a beer.

I'd decline the offer, I'm choosy who I drink with.

[CanadianInChina]

What dual pricing are you talking about?

At some government run things, like national parks, zoos, museums, ancient ruins, etc foreigners are charged more than Thais. Still not expensive, if you become a resident or have a work permit you will get the Thai price though. Overcharging sometimes in tourist zones for other private run businesses but almost never outside of them, it's not something to worry about and I've never had a problem.

And yeah the Thai attitude is a lot less hostile towards mixed race than many other Asian countries. As you said some Chinese are experiencing nationalism and anger over past wrongs. Thais generally don't have this, they weren't colonized by the west and they didn't suffer horrible atrocities during WWII and don't have the same complex a lot of others sometimes get over this. No one is going to ever harass your wife on the subway, randomly take pictures of the two of you, or really comment on you at all.

That's what we're hoping: to find a place where people are just indifferent to us. I'm thinking Thailand would be a great choice. Anyone have any experience with the international schools there? How's the education system for kids?