Dutch Tourist Hurls Objects at Udon Thani Café Staff Over Change Dispute

[moses]

These events took place in the month of november 2003, followed by questions some questions....

I was driving from Kata beach to Patong on Phuket Ireland, when a police officer stopped me with hand signals, he wanted me to pull over. I had hired a suzuki (small motorbike) from the guesthouse where I live. This morning as all other mornings during my 2 weeks vacation I was driving my thai girlfriend to he work in Patong beach.

The polite police officer asked me for my "international driving license" - I took up my swedish identification card and said to him, this is all I've got... He asked me if it was my drivers license and I explained to him that it was a swedish identification card. (I wonder what had happend if I said it was a license)

He confiscated my ID card and told me to meet up at Chalong police station the same day late afternoon, I had no idea about what was going on at the time but my girlfreind told me that I got finned and had to go to police station and pay the fine. The police officer wrote out a piece of paper in Thai which probably explained my traffic offences. I tried being polite to, and said krap krun krap with a big smile and praying hands :-)

I imagined that they would arrest me, and I would miss my flight home to Sweden the next day mind you this is the first time ever I visit a police station for an offence in my life... Once entering the police station two police officers sat behind a desk, one of them looked nice and smiling and the other one looked angry and grungy - I got the angry one off cause... He told me to sit down and I waited there in front of his desk for maybe 10 minutes while he was reading something.

Finnaly - he looked up - I gave him my papers, passport and etc and he told me to pay 300 bath in fine - was that it? YES it was it... I got back my Swedish ID card and took my motorbike and drove back to Kata beach!

1) Is it new that you need a license to a small motorbike?

I have hired motorbike every year under the impression that I didn't need a license for it... Thai's say that it is not nessecary - maybe it's a new law.

2) How come, if it is a traffic offence to drive with out license that the police officer let me drive to Patong beach after all, well knowing that I didn't have a valid license?

3) I drive to the police station in Challong on my motorbike pay my fine, get my ID drive back home from police station on the very same motorcycle.

The laws does not make sence, if they told me that I could not drive after getting fined of cause I would have stopped - but they just say drive carefull!

4) Can you get a license in Thailand for motorbike? Or is it only for thai residence... (I dont want to pay 1000's of dollers here in Sweden to get motorbike licence, when I use it one time abroad a year)

Moses

[KevinN]

You must have a motorcycle license to drive a motorbike,and a car license to drive a car or pickup. that is the law,altho if you would have told him it was a drivers license he maybe would have let you go,but most likely he wanted to count a fine to his tally so you would have been had anyway. They have a lot of set laws here but seem to enforce none of them at all times and only some when they want to.

What you should do is get an international license while at home and then next time you will be covered.

[Guest IT Manager]

Keep 200 baht with your licence. Attach with paper clip.

Hand the ossifer your licence/id card. Wear a bloody helmet. I assume you weren't.

Prefer give him nothing but the 200 baht. Say mai kaow jai and smile. The ride off. If he shoots you it was your kharma anyhow, so mai pen rai.

Sorry but fact of life outside Bangkok.

[sbk]

My (thai) husband got stopped once (i live in a rural area but also with lots of tourists) by the police, asked to see his drivers license. He had, of course, that day forgotten it at home. so he just handed him his California drivers license and told him it was an international drivers license. Policeman nodded ok, next time make sure you have your thailand one. Most police (according to him) cannot read english. pretty much only tourist police and higher ranking guys. your average traffic cop won't be able to. I too was stopped once, handed him my well-expired dl from home and he looked at it, nodded, ok you can go.

so, yes, the law is you need a drivers license. next time, wear a helmet, and tell him it is a drivers license, he will probably believe you!

[moses]

To SBK - I did wear a helmet, they fined me only because off a missing drivers license...

Thanks for all your replys on this subject - it's good to know how things "really" are working - next time I will ask the officer if I can buy a Thai drivers license at the police station

moses

[maerim]

You can't buy a license at the police station.

Get an international one from your home country, there are two types, make sure you get the one valid for Thailand and they are not expensive. I have one as well as an E.U.one plus a Thai license for a car and one for a motorbike.

What I suggest you do next time you get a tug is do what I do when I am stopped and expected to make a donation to the local police tea money fund.

Give him your international license he probably won't know what it is but it is a legal document, if you are in a motor wear your seatbelt or on a motorbike your crash helmet, don't make it too easy for them.

He will stare at the license and at you for a while, keep smiling,he will expect some money,don't give it to him,keep smiling,it is just a matter who will get fed up first as it's my money he wants and as I have done nothing wrong, except to be a Farang, I always wait for him to give me my license back.

He won't be happy, but then life's tough.

[Axel]

What happens if you don't pay?

Two examples:

1) You park you car and find a ticket upon return.

2) You are stopped, refuse to pay a bribe and leave your (oversaes issued) International licence, but never go to the station to pick it up

[kwiz117]

1. This happened in Bangkok. I was driving with my wife to Pantip from the World Trade Center around 5 months back. We took the turn and then the Police officer stop us. He walked to my car and then said my wife that we are not allowed to take that turn and they have fixed a board saying that the turn is possible between X time-Y time.

My wife has asked him, what we should do now? He has proposed her two options.

1. Pay the fine 200 Bht here, so he will return my Driving License

2. Pay the fine 500 Bht at Police Station.

Ofcourse we selected his first proposal. After handing over the license, he instructed us to put the hazard lights and drive forward.

2. Another day, on my way to Amari Watergates from Rajadhamri Rd, I was driving in the 2nd lane. I saw the green board indicating to turn and also saw the arrow marked on the road indicating that you are allowed to turn by driving in Lane 2. So I went forward and suddenly realized I am having a "Fountain" in front of me, blocking my way to turn allowing only the Lane 1. Thanking that they have done a mistake, I took a "Taxi Cut" to the Lane 1.

Police Officer ran towards me and wanted to stop the car.

So I braked and stopped the car blocking the lane, as no place to park the car in that junction.

He was an arrogant fellow and I tried to show him the arrow. then he is telling me, that is to go around the Fountain. Anyway, the discussion went on, I refused to pay any bribe, and the guy started writing the paper. I got a bill for 800 Bht.

These were the charges.

1. Blocking the Road by stopping the car.

2. Not agreeing to Police Orders

3. Changing the Lane from a place where it is not allowed to do so.

Read the Below part. Might helpful to you, if you drive from an International License and have a flight to catch up.

The very next day, went to the Police Station to Pay the Fine. Waited 15 minutes and then the officer attended to my matter.

Very friendly guy and asked many questions about the practice of Buddhism in Sri Lanka.

Then he charged me 600 Bht [Wonder how they discounted 200 Bht], but DID NOT RETURN ME THE LICENSE.

Instead gave me another Sheet of Paper written in Thai. It said that I have to come again in another 14 days time to collect the License. But within that period, I should not break any Traffic Laws. If I do, then I have to go on a Training Program to get it back.

I got the License Back after 14 days time and also noticed that they have pasted a sticker on it indicating the letter "A" and put a Mark in Black. No Idea what that is all about.

After that, I decided to pay bribes and already done it once without going through this process.

Having driven cars in India, Sri Lanka all I can tell is, driving in Thailand and talking with Police guys are 100 times better. So no complains.

[the gentleman]

This isnt the right way, but when I first arrived here and Police tried to book me with no helmut, I smiled and kept going, he laughed, so I did that for a few years until I got my car.

You can actually show any piece of paper and say it is your licence, they usually dont know.

I am not sure if the rules are the same in Bangkok, but last week in Phuket, they made a new law on turning on your headlight on your motorbike during the day - it is a goood law actually as we all know a few people killed on Bikes, I have had 6 people I know die here on bikes.

Back to the question, sorry I was dribbling - make a licence on you computer before you come............ I have a "United Nations" international licence that I purchased in Bangers for 1000 Baht - I use it for car and bike, I think I can "legally fly a helicopter" on this one as well - ah Thailand!

[kwiz117]

Back to the question, sorry I was dribbling - make a license on you computer before you come............ I have a "United Nations" international licence that I purchased in Bangers for 1000 Baht - I use it for car and bike, I think I can "legally fly a helicopter" on this one as well - ah Thailand!

Careful when you do above, if you have a Life Insurance or an Accident Insurance cover. Your beneficiaries will not get the benefits in most cases if you Drive by using a forged License.

Specially this is important to think when driving in Asia. Insure yourself for Accidents and Death before you drive here.

[the gentleman]

good point Kwiz - hadnt thought about that!

[maerim]

Perhaps why Thailand has such a terrible record of road accidents is just because of this, people driving without a proper license that they aquired by taking a driving test.

In the U.K. you have to be 17 (I think) to ride a motorbike and take a very stiff two part test , here you have to be big enough.

Now I am not being snotty but something must be done to stop this carnage everyday here.

In the U.K there are about 3,000 fatalities a year through R.T.As, here just add a few noughts.

[huski]

He confiscated my ID card and told me to meet up at Chalong police station the same day late afternoon, I had no idea about what was going on at the time but my girlfreind told me that I got finned and had to go to police station and pay the fine.

The officer didn't pull you over for not having a license unless he has sixth sense. so what you gave him, he thought was your license or didn't care. it is standard for the police to take your license to the police station or no one would show up to pay fines.

The police officer wrote out a piece of paper in Thai which probably explained my traffic offences

why didn't the girl you had on the back tell you what you were pulled over for?

you should have a copy of your license, international or something valid looking with a few hundred baht folded up just in case you are pulled over. wai and ask the officer "can you pay this fine for me". you are giving him your ticket money with the intention of him paying it for you.

[sbk]

Actually maerim the reason thailand has such a high fatality rate is because a person can bribe the guy at the transportation department to give him a license after he has failed the test. I know many thai people who have done so. Out in the country (don't know about bangkok) there is no driver training at schools and I see children of 8 and up driving their motorbikes around. Often with mom and baby sister on the back. I asked my husband why the police don't stop the little kids from driving and he said, "small children don't have any money". Parents think nothing of letting their kids drive and as they don't know the proper rules of the road, neither will their kids ever learn. Also, drunk driving is prevalent and unchecked outside of major cities. So, no, thailand doesn't have a high fatality rate because of unlicensed drivers (farang or thai), it has a high fatality rate because most people don't know or understand the basic safety laws of the road.

[maerim]

Could not agree more.

I didn't say unlicensed drivers and yes i do know that you can buy a license here.

What I said was driving without any training or at least someone who has a bit of experience teaching you the basic rules of the road.

I love being here one of the reasons is that the state does not have such a tight grip on people here as they do in my home country and it is fun here.

For the life of me I can't see the fun in being in intensive care with tubes stuck in victims of an R.T.A. and plugged into the machine that goes beep.

That still does not address my point of innocent people and drunks getting killed and maimed everday through bad driving.

I don't really mind about the drunks wasting themselves but I would appreciate it if they would do it when me and my family are nowhere near them.

[gangstar]

I was onced stopped down in pattaya for no helmet as they we're outside the police station pulling over plenty of people, he wrote a ticket and sent me in to pay after waiting my turn i handed the ticket,the officer behind the desk paid 200 baht, job done,

When i went to get back on my bike i put on the helmet which was in the basket the officer who had first stopped me said " oh no not have to wear if you have problem show ticet tell them pay already" taking his advice drove off without the helmet about 2 hours later i was stopped in town, i pulled out the paper told them i had paid already and they said " o.k no problem but after 12 tonight you must wear o.k"

Do they even understand why it should be law to wear saftey gear?????

[moses]

why didn't the girl you had on the back tell you what you were pulled over for

She did talk in Thai to the officer, and she was in a hurry to get to work... but it was a bit unclear at first why I was pulled over because in my own opinion, I was driving carefully, had headlights and helmet on - She did explain everything to me afterwoods though.

One other thing comes to my mind regarding wearing helmet... I remember a couple of years ago - I was driving a Thai friend and one of his younger children from A to B also on Phuket Ireland.

The child was only 4-5 years old, sitting in front and my friend was sitting in the back on the motorbike. I put the helmet on the child, and my friend said: NO - you must wear helmet yourself or the police stops you... I said I didn't care if I was going to drive the two of them to destination B then the child wears the helmet period.

I was not stopped by the police, everything went well but what had happend if I was stopped? Fined again for not wearing helmet? If I have an accident, the child would be the most fragile wouldn't it? That's how I thought anyway!

Moses

[gangstar]

The police are only in it for the money, if they cared about safety all persons on the bike should wear a halmet, i know to this day that in pattaya its only law for the driver to wear one and not the whole family!

work that one out

[the gentleman]

just to clarify my earlier post, I had a licence when I first came to Thailand and it had run out, so I opted for the easy way out and acquired one!

I could of went for a Thai licence, but never found time. Next time I am back home I will get a new one.

[tuky]

I haven't been anywhere long enough in the last 5/6 years to get a license, so I am without...

But my wife insists that I drive our car everywhere, she keeps 100baht on the dash just in case we get stopped. So far no problems.

I have constantly asked her about this and she is adamant that if we get stopped that we will only pay the cop 100baht and be gone, but she says mai pen lai, it will never happen.

I hope it never does but it sure will be interesting to see what happens.

[KevinN]

There are a few people on here that do observe what is going on around them afterall..

The reason that there are so many accidents and deaths is not because of people with no license,,the reason is because even if they did pass the test,they do not pay any attn. to traffic laws or obey any of them,they think a motorbike has no business being on the road and try to kill anyone on a bike at every chance,,

The Thai does not use any reason while driving and does the damdest things,never what you would expect an experienced driver to do,but just the opposite.

The Thai can not drive because no one has ever taught them to,and they have no law enforcement on the roads or streets,except for a few cops that need a few baht,so they will stop a few people and get their personal finances in order then give it up for the week.

[maerim]

One of the first things I was taught when learing to drive was M.S.N. mirror,signal, manoeuvre.

From what I can see they have M.S.N. here but ever so slightly different, here it's maoeuvre, signal then a quick glimpse in the mirror to what they have just missed or hit.

[maerim]

I did mean M.S.M. my lysdexia is getting wirse

[syd barrett]

I was on a motorbike as a passenger and got stopped for no helmet. I refused to pay 200 baht, so they took me off the bike and asked me which hotel I was staying, I gave a false hotel and said I would bring the 200 baht tomorrow, they said no way, so I said I would go to an A.T.M. but I wanted a receipt. They let me go. They (The Police) always keep the money it is a perk of the job, but if you have time you can piss them off and get away without paying. Most times, it is too much hassle and easier to pay up.

[maerim]

I have a question for Moses.

If you are not licensed to drive a motorbike in your home country what right do you have to ride one here?

Don't you think there are enough people here riding around here without the first clue to any road sense.

If you can manage it could you possibly bring with you the next time you come here some large dogs that you could let lose on the streets, preferably with sarcoptic mange as we are a bit short of them as well.

[ray23]

I thought this was a very interesting subject I had heard horror stories of being stopped by the Police here, many times. But, have only been topped once myself. However I always wear a helmet and so does my passenger, really has nothing to do with laws, there is something about being hit headon by a truck and surviving that makes you tend to believe in them. I don't cheat the lights and always assume that someone else is going to, I don't care how green it is until the intersection is clear of cross traffic me and the bike wait. I have logged over a year here on a bike with no accidents. But, I'm not only careful of what I do but what the other guy is doing as well. Riding a bike here the first thing you have to understand is weigth ratio, the bigger guy is always right, there is a pecking order starting at the bottom the pedestrian, the bike rider, the motorcyclist, the car driver, the truck driver and at the top the bus driver. Then somewhere in the mix is the elephant, the buffalo, the cows, the dogs and the chickens, the later of the two are fair game, the frist we we are back to weight ratio.

I have now learned that, a car truck or bus will pull into you while looking you straight in the eye knowing that you have no where to go, so you always have to keep the weight ratio law in your mind.

Anyway getting back to the topic a friend and I rode up to Nong Kia, on our choppers with our girlfriends on the back and were stopped in a check point, must have been border Police, because they asked for our passports, which we didn't have with us. My friend produced his Thia drivers license, I didn't have mine yet a as I was still on a tourist visa. So I smiled and handed the guy my California drivers license, smiled and didn't say a word. I started to get a bit worried when I realized it had expired the month before. he smiled back and just kept looking it over. he didn't speak english and I didn't speak Thai. He handed it back and began questioning my girlfriend in Thai, I think they were trying to figure out if she was from Laos, since we were only about ten minuetes from the border.

There was no indication of any bribe being solicitated, which if this was an activity that they did get involved in, the Gods were smiling on them, you see my friends girlfriend is a Captian on The border Police stationed in Udon. She insists on paying her own way and is an honest cop. I happen to be a retired cop as well, when it was all over I introduced myself as a Police officer from America. They really relaxed with me then and it was not a bad experience.

The only reason that I can think of that they stopped us was that they might have thought we were partying with Illegal Aliens from Laos which does happen in this neck of the woods. I've been through the check points many times and this was the only time I was ever stopped.

By the way I have the Thai licences now and that was an easy experince as well, they looked at my drivers license and said it is not easy to get a drivers license in California, so you must be a good driver, that was the test

[moses]

I have a question for Moses.

If you are not licensed to drive a motorbike in your home country what right do you have to ride one here?

Don't you think there are enough people here riding around here without the first clue to any road sense.

If you can manage it could you possibly bring with you the next time you come here some large dogs that you could let lose on the streets, preferably with sarcoptic mange as we are a bit short of them as well.

A brief answer to your sarcasm!

When I lived in the UK in the 90's I learned to drive a small motorcycle 125cc

I dont know how the law is today, but back then you could drive a motorcycle with out a license as a "learner" and a Car with out license with an L plate on and a person beside you who had a license.

When you drive a motorbike this way - you get a certificate which allows you to drive in the UK with out a prober license. I did that for about 12 months! (I was 18)

I passed my driving test for car and motorcycle and got a valid license for the UK.

I moved back to Denmark not long after, unfortunatly my UK license was not valid in my home country. Havent been back to the UK since then, and havent taken another license eighter...

What right do I have? None, I agree

But, I justify my actions by my previos UK license

DO YOU HAVE A VALID LICENSE FOR MOTORCYCLE YOUR SELF? maerim

[HEXtaB]

Interesting stuff,

As an expat, what are the options regarding obtaining a legal Thai driving license or even an international one whilst in Thailand? That is, without already having either an international one or "full" one from your own country? I have driven here in the past, and used my UK provisional and a couple of 200 Baht licenses whenever I was pulled over.

[taxexile]

the gentleman

Police tried to book me with no helmut,

nothing to worry about pal, because this rule, rarely broken, only applies to pattaya bargirls.

[maerim]

Do I have a motorbike license ( I assume you mean a real one and not a forged one) ? Yes I do and a car license,one for a truck, etc. I also passed tests to get these without the aid of any "tea money" changing hands ( not here by the way)and would you believe I even have a certificate for using a chain saw. So if you ever want a chain saw driver i'm your man.

As Denmark is in the E.U. why is your license that you aquired in the U.K. not valid there? My license allows me to drive anywhere in the E.U. but not here, thats why I have my E.U. license, two Thai driving license's also an international one and fully comprehensive insurance so if I run you over you can sue me.

If you do not have a valid license from your own country you can't get an international driving license and that makes sense to me.

At the risk of sounding to much like Mr. Trink (I have been driving here for years)since I bought my new toy six months ago we have covered over 21,000 km and thats not just nipping down to the shops once a week. I have seen more accidents here in Thailand than in any of the countries I have been, terrible ones,see for yourself, just pop into your local police station and look at the wrecks there.

This is the result of people driving who I personally would not let loose on a bicycle.

I have another question for you, how far do you think I would get in your country or most other countries come to that, driving a car or riding a motorbike without a valid i.e. not forged driving license?

Good luck with your application and a worthwhile tip is to regard all other drivers on the roads here as potential murderers out to bump you off and you will be in with a chance.

Except expats of course with bona fide licenses