Aussie 'Attacked' By Thai Elephant Guide

[surayu]

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Tourists in Bangkok are being warned not to buy food for street elephants or risk a 10,000 baht (310 dollars) fine in the latest clampdown on begging by owners of the animals.

It's not just that, a forced residence in one of these amazing rooms can be part of the deal, the law state up to 6 months, any takers?

[appropriate]

Foreigner sticking his nose into thailand's business and gets taught a lesson.

Amazing how many times you could write that sentence with reference to the sob stories.

[surayu]

Foreigner sticking his nose into thailand's business and gets taught a lesson.

Amazing how many times you could write that sentence with reference to the sob stories.

Yes i guess it can be written as many times as someone else would write "if it's done in thailand or by a thai then it must to be right" someone that use his own brain to understand if something it's either good or bad is too much to ask for and if it's something being done in the western world already then evil of the evils, no matter what

[Rumpole]

This is another thread but I also read somewhere that it was going to be extended across Thailand.

Tourists warned not to feed Bangkok's street elephants

BANGKOK (AFP) -- Tourists in Bangkok are being warned not to buy food for street elephants or risk a 10,000 baht (310 dollars) fine in the latest clampdown on begging by owners of the animals.

Another Thai rip-off and scam. Fine the tourists instead of taking action against the owners of the elephant to get these animals off the streets. Nice move, Somchai. I really am surprised that Thailand actually has any tourists left.

[clinique]

very unfortunate incident. seeing it was in Loi Kroh would suggest the sleezier part of town where the tourist was ???? perhaps a few drinks in him and had abig mouth as Aussies tend to do..

[mamborobert]

very unfortunate incident. seeing it was in Loi Kroh would suggest the sleezier part of town where the tourist was ???? perhaps a few drinks in him and had a big mouth as Aussies tend to do..

Nice one.....triple bonus points for irrelevance...slag off Loi Kroh, drinking and Aussies.

We do not know if he was drunk, nationality is irrelevant, if he did mouth of (and that's if) the response (and one may well have been required) was certainly not proportionate.

This thread seems to have developed into two areas, one whether there is a right to speak one's mind, and second the welfare of the elephants. When I posted the article I just thought that this is one more piece of international coverage that Chiang Mai does not need.

Having said that there are some things that are universally wrong, and drunk or not, Loi Kroh or not, Aussie or not, the guy spoke up.....and suffered wrongly

As you are fond of Edmund Burke quotes you might recall one of his more famous ones "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Edited December 16, 2010 by mamborobert

[clinique]

Agreed the elephants are the ones who suffer - wrongly.

In 20 years in Thailand I have fed or not fed elephants on the street as i feel at the time. Never has a mahout threatended me.

Yes the outcome for the tourist seems on the face of it unwaranted - but were you there ? Do you know if he did or did not provoke the mahout ??

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Agreed the elephants are the ones who suffer - wrongly.

In 20 years in Thailand I have fed or not fed elephants on the street as i feel at the time. Never has a mahout threatended me.

Yes the outcome for the tourist seems on the face of it unwaranted - but were you there ? Do you know if he did or did not provoke the mahout ??

Presumably there were witnesses but nobody here knows exactly what happened without seeing it. They did however take the Mahout to jail so what did the police conclude?

Outside of an physical threat or assault is there justifiable verbal provocation to hit someone in the head with one of those clubs with a spike on it? That's a serious weapon.

What verbal provocation is there where the police say.. Oh he said "such and such" and you clubbed him on the head with a spike? oh okay... On your way then.

If verbal provocation was a green light for assault and battery then everyone would claim the other party said something to them before lighting them up.

Maybe he looked at him funny also?

Edited December 16, 2010 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[meadish_sweetball]

Nobody has all the real facts, it seems. Each person speculates and bases their opinions on their moral compass (or lack of it) and what they believe happened. Perhaps it would be more constructive to leave the 'was the criticism right or wrong' track, and try to think about what actions would cause the overall best end effect? We probably agree that elephants do not belong on the streets in the cities. If we do then it follows we want to take the best course of action to prevent it. Anyone who has been around this country for a while will know that aggressive behaviour comes with a fairly high risk of escalating into violence. If we still keep our eyes on the ball - making sure that elephants are kept off the streets and in as good conditions as possible - then criticizing the mahout would not seem to be the best course of action. Did he have the right to state his opinion? Well, yes. Was it an intelligent course of action? Based on the results, it would seem not. Another point, none of us know the story of the mahout either. In many cases I'd suspect the welfare of the elephants is tied to the welfare of their mahouts. So if we care about the elephants and want them to be well off, perhaps it would be a good idea to figure out what exactly drives the mahout, and try to come up with an alternative for him as well. Apart from elephant camps, what other solutions are there for elephants (and their mahouts)?

[PlanetX]

This is one the sickest forms of blatant animal cruelty

Hopefully tourists are starting to understand this and continue to refuse to support and also speak out against this practice

The only way they "tame" these elephants is by torturing them horrifically when they are babies

The fact that this "practice" is rewared by being allowed to parade them down the street speaks VOLUMES

Is it really worth a few baht in pay-off money to allow elephants to be brutally tortured like this?

I guess as long as there are beautiful statues of elephants in front of important buildings then its all right

I don't think they torture them to tame them. I know they do when they teach them to do tricks but that is different than eating.

It is easy to say they should not be made to do what they do. And I agree.

My problem is what happens to them if every one refuses to feed them.

Please do not respond if you do not have a answer.

If every one refuses to feed them how many days before they starve to death. Or is there a immediate solution. Immediate as in today.

Not one of those people should do solutions ( agreed they should but this is reality and they aren't). No time for that. Remember they are starving to death.

they do torture them to tame them - FACT - do 3 minutes of research

The elephants you see in the street arent coming from elephant camps open to the public

If you dont pay the "handlers" money - capturing wild elephants no longer becomes profitable and they find something else

They are only starving to death because it is profitable to capture them and parade them in the streets

By "providing them food" you are sponsoring their capture and captivity

Three minutes of research will give me any answer I want same goes for you.

You responded when I asked you not to if you didn't have a answer.

Where did you get the idea they came from elephant camps? I specifically said in the city.

Grow up. They are on the street today NOW what do you do with them if you don't feed them today, tomorrow the day after get the idea.

The answer is they will die. That is not acceptable t me.

Is it acceptable to you?

Is it really that hard of concept to grasp - they are on the street NOW because of people like you that support the practice

if people had stopped feeding them before they wouldnt be on the street now - if people stop feeding them now they wont be on the street tomorrow - get the idea?

Edited December 16, 2010 by PlanetX

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

My question is if they took the handlers into custody then did they impound the Elephant?

Good question about eliminating the demand for the elephants on the street. I notice hanging out on Loh Kroh sometimes that the Thai employees often feed the elephants and sometimes it seems more eagerly than the tourists.

The tourists could stop paying but not sure if would eliminate the demand. Would certainly reduce the incentive but they might be just taking the elephants somewhere to top them up with food.

It's an interesting conflict of needs.

[clinique]

My question is if they took the handlers into custody then did they impound the Elephant?

Good question about eliminating the demand for the elephants on the street. I notice hanging out on Loh Kroh sometimes that the Thai employees often feed the elephants and sometimes it seems more eagerly than the tourists.

The tourists could stop paying but not sure if would eliminate the demand. Would certainly reduce the incentive but they might be just taking the elephants somewhere to top them up with food.

It's an interesting conflict of needs.

I agree with the Mod's comments above.

And it certainly is a conflict. And one that certainly will not be addressed correctly or appropriately by the media.

They will,as with every story, sensationalise the attack, without addressing the root problem.

if the elephants dont eat (and hence the mahouts dont eat also) what happens to them!! That is the question.

If they were being looked after in the wild (outisde the city) there would be no need for them to come begging in the city !

[Ta22]

The solution is not that hard really but is just too much a commitment that most would not want to Solve it .

First those who debate so hard about animal Cruelty maybe if you really want ot help . you could help fund and Buy the elephant .

and the maybe donate it to a Zoo or camp . and if you feel the zoo or the camp is not taking good enough care . the solution is simple again . just open your own welfare center for the animal .

but of cos like most thread i see and read people are only keen in winning a debate then solving the problem itself .

the problem does not end alone at buying the elephant , you also have ot teach those Men how to make a living . doing something else or hire them . since those guys can walk the street for long hour . i am assuming ther ehave good physis so maybe you can starta tour comapny that bring people up the mountian to trek and hire those guys at trekker .

then we are talking about solving problem .

some may feel that we turn a blind eyes to problem . and just behave like a thai and not see the problem .

what i can say is . sometime we know the answer , BUT is just not within our commitment to Solve it .

you guys can carry on the circus debate . This is not going to change or improve the problem you are seeing now .

most problem in thailand is multi layer . mix together to give a cocktail that will knock your off your chair if you want to solve it .

my advice is . Tourist need to be more Street wise .

to those who feel the sence of justice by spending your long hour waiting for what others said and reply .

maybe you can us ethat time to visit the elephants camp . and maybe spend some time learning thai culture or learn to speak thai which i am sure will help you more in your crusade of saving the poor animal .

i always ask myself a few simple question . when i see problem .

Am i able to help ?

If i do help will people around me get in trouble ?

do the people want me to help ?

if i am seriously to comment i would said that Tourist who got into a Fight with Local . just have really poor people skill . there is many way to solve a problem and trying to solve it resulting in a fight is just Poor judgment and poor communication skill .

and all we seen is one sided story . that why i said from the first post . i will take this as a tall tale of urban myth till i heard both side of the story .

i am not saying it right to injury anyone . any user can go ahead and cherry pick what i said and make your rightous point . i care less. about what you think really .

since i said this . i did talk to my wife a few time that i am keen in buying some of the elephants from the street traniner , my wife told me that the elephants can cost between 200,000b - even as high as 1,000,000 .

and also what she said the elephants eat alot and one days it might be able to eat few hundred Kg of food or more .

Note .

Thai have huge respect for Elephants . that is why there will always feed it when there see it .

is in their culture.

hope the tourist get well soon . and the elephants trainer get home soon so he can take care of his elephants .

.

from what i know .

not all elephants is train to beg some of the mahouts do Own the elephants that is pass down from their father or grandfather . and is their right to own the elephants and Thai do have Law that allow elephants to use the street . but do correct mne if i am wrong about the right to use the roads parts cos as far as i know form a few mahouts i know there told me so .

anyway like i always do i enough a good finger work out with bad spelling .

the best way to solve problem is understand and sharing info .

is good to have debate when there is different point of view .

those who love to debate or just exchange point of view .. tell you what .

so much words online . Give me a Date . i would love to meet up with anyone of you .

over coffee or Moo kata

share your view and see how we can improve everyone life along the way .

[jayjay0]

planet x you posted

"Is it really that hard of concept to grasp - they are on the street NOW because of people like you that support the practice

if people had stopped feeding them before they wouldnt be on the street now - if people stop feeding them now they wont be on the street tomorrow - get the idea?"

My response

Are you brain dead of course if people hadn't fed them they would not be on the street now. They would be dead.

Maybe on planet x they don't have to eat here on earth they have to eat.

A I said before don't reply if you have no answers. And from your posts you don't.

An imbecile can say what to do to keep them off the street. But it takes a few more smarts than that to figure out a way to take the ones on the street off with out starving them to death.

[Nawtier]

There is not a lot of alternatives for these elephants...would you lot prefer to se them starve than fork out your hard earned 20 baht ?

[scorecard]

[

Edited December 17, 2010 by scorecard

[IanForbes]

In 15 years of coming to Thailand I've never had a problem with a mahout, or anyone else for that matter. I'm a guest in Thailand and understand that. I can't change the country so I stay out of the politics. No, I don't condone the elephants coming into the city as a form of begging, but it's not my country or my problem. I can't change what is. If I saw someone actually beating a person or abusing an animal then I MIGHT step in to help, but thankfully that has never happened. I've never seen anyone beating an elephant but many times I've been asked to feed one. A simple wave of the hand in a negative fashion and a simple " My ow Krap" (sounds more like My-ow-cup) is all it takes. No need to get into an un-winable argument.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

So has anyone been down on Loh Kroh and heard the gossip? I haven't been lately but I am sure they are dishing like crazy about what happened. It's impossible to keep a secret on that street.

Would be interesting to hear what the regulars are saying. Rumblings from the rumor mill anyway.

With no info other than the article I would lean toward a YaBa paranoia hypothesis but just a wild guess.

There had to be some witnesses.

Edited December 17, 2010 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[ChiangMai2]

So has anyone been down on Loh Kroh and heard the gossip? I haven't been lately but I am sure they are dishing like crazy about what happened. It's impossible to keep a secret on that street.

Would be interesting to hear what the regulars are saying. Rumblings from the rumor mill anyway.

With no info other than the article I would lean toward a YaBa paranoia hypothesis but just a wild guess.

There had to be some witnesses.

banana skins can send a man crazy !