Non B Refused - Alternatives To Tourist Visa?

[trompelemonde82]

I was recently refused the chance to apply for my third Non B Visa after travelling all the way to Laos, as the language center I work for failed to include a letter from the Ministry of Education. Despite my protests, and calling my workplace to request a letter be obtained and sent by fax as soon as possible, it was a no-goer.

So I left Laos and have since been trying to get this letter and have the secretaries confirm all documentation with the local Immigration Office to ensure it is accurate and as required. It has just transpired today that my visa will be refused because I don't have an actual Bachelors Degree. I did include a letter explaining that I had a 'B' in Higher English and the equivalent of an Associates Degree (4 years at college studying two separate subjects) plus 16 months teaching experience in Thailand, and that this had been sufficient qualifications to ensure my Non B in two previous teaching positions.

According to the Manager at my workplace, Immigration told the secretary that they have 'denied' my application and that I must now obtain a tourist visa. I don't quite understand how this works - since when can local immigration refuse a Non B application when they surely cannot grant a new Non B, I must exit the country to do so, and it is up to the relevant Embassy in that country whether or not to refuse me?

[starcatcher]

It makes sense to me what they told you. I never was interested to work as a teacher, but even I know, when you're not a teacher you cant work as a teacher (officially and usually). If you would have gotten your Non B by then, I would have called it big luck. But it is always the decision of the immigration and they were right. Sorry.

Once I also applied for a B visa. But before doing so I called the consulate and also sent an email to them to ask what I need. I took the copy of the email answer, all documents asked in this answer and got my visa. Maybe you should have done the same. Next time just ask them, what they want, get it and give it to them. I'm sure, it wont be a problem to get your visa then

And alternative to an tourist visa: maybe an ED Visa (going to school, but as student and not as teacher )

Edited December 16, 2010 by starcatcher

[siam2007]

1-year-non-B-Visas with multiple entries are still very easy to obtain in Europe at several Consulates with virtually no paperwork involved / Documents required.

But this is probably too long a distance for you......

[trompelemonde82]

Thanks for your replies. Unfortunately, a trip to Europe to obtain a visa is out of the question. I know of a visa service in Thailand that can obtain a Non B with ease and not much paperwork, but their asking price is way too much.

I had a copy of the list of required documents that I had used for my previous visa but this letter from the Ministry of Education was not listed. I showed this to the Embassy but they insisted I must get the letter, My workplace said the contract they have just given me does not start until 1st January next year and the contract must be active to obtain the Ministry's letter. I asked them to draw up another contract that starts from the beginning of this month and then use this to obtain the letter.

They then went to the local (Thai) Immigration office to check all documents were as required. It was the local Immigration office that told the secretary from my workplace that I 'have been denied' because I don't have proof of a Bachelors Degree. I made this clear to my first employer in Thailand, but they told me I had the equivalent of an Associates Degree and that was adequate. Both of my former workplaces supplied a letter saying I had a Bachelors degree to obtain my Non B visas and everything was fine with that.

Assuming I can obtain this letter from the Ministry of Education and confirm with the consulate myself then I am not sure why it's a problem to go back to Laos and try again? Then again, the rules may have recently changed in regard to degree requirements for teaching - does anyone know anything about that?

[xbusman]

Recently went to the Los Angeles consulate and was informed that all Thai embassies have been instructed to stop issuing multi entry non imm B visas. They are to issue single entry and let immigrations in Bangkok issue permit to reenter.

[lopburi3]

A re-entry permit issued by immigration only allows entry for the 90 day period of the non immigrant B visa entry and provides no extra time. Suspect you may mean a one year extension of stay; which many jobs do not qualify for.

[tombkk]

Wait a second - you are saying you have to do visa runs and apply for new non-imm B visas all the time. This sounds like you don't have a work permit.

The class B allows you to apply for a work permit. Without the work permit, you are not allowed to work. If you have the work permit, you apply for an extension of stay and don't have to leave the country to apply for a new visa.

Something is wrong here. Are you trying to tell the Thai government that they should issue another non-imm B visa for you, because you have experience in working illegally, i.e. without a work permit?

As for the bachelor's degree, I believe it is a requirement now for any teaching position. It does not matter how much other teaching experience or other degrees you have. I don't think this mentality is different from Western countries in any way: If your paperwork doesn't say you are qualified, you are out of luck.

My suggestion: Get a degree that qualifies for the job and all the other docs according to Thai law, then apply for a non-imm class B which allows you to apply for the work permit. And only when you have the work permit, start teaching. You won't have to apply for a new visa any more as you will only do extensions of stay at Chaeng Wattana, and the problem will be gone.

[lopburi3]

You do not need any special visa to apply for a work permit. Only for the final issue is a non immigrant visa required.

There are many people here working legally with work permits that do not qualify for one year extensions of stay.

[tombkk]

Well, the point is that the WP will not be issued without a non-imm, and working requires a WP.

There is a widely-spread misconception that anon-imm B allows you to work, and I believe the OP fell victim to this.

[trompelemonde82]

Wait a second - you are saying you have to do visa runs and apply for new non-imm B visas all the time. This sounds like you don't have a work permit.

The class B allows you to apply for a work permit. Without the work permit, you are not allowed to work. If you have the work permit, you apply for an extension of stay and don't have to leave the country to apply for a new visa.

Something is wrong here. Are you trying to tell the Thai government that they should issue another non-imm B visa for you, because you have experience in working illegally, i.e. without a work permit?

As for the bachelor's degree, I believe it is a requirement now for any teaching position. It does not matter how much other teaching experience or other degrees you have. I don't think this mentality is different from Western countries in any way: If your paperwork doesn't say you are qualified, you are out of luck.

My suggestion: Get a degree that qualifies for the job and all the other docs according to Thai law, then apply for a non-imm class B which allows you to apply for the work permit. And only when you have the work permit, start teaching. You won't have to apply for a new visa any more as you will only do extensions of stay at Chaeng Wattana, and the problem will be gone.

No I currently do not have a work permit and I realise that the Non B allows me to apply for one. Of course, I cannot get a WP until I have the Non B. I did not fall victim to the misconception that a Non-B allows you to work. Let's be realistic though - how many teachers out there in the land of smiles are actually working legally and with the all the correct documentation - at a guess, maybe 10%?

I, on the other hand am trying my best to do everything above board and by the book. However, what is written seems to be everchanging. I left my job with a previous language center in the same city where I am living now. I went to the Labour Department with a secretary and my work permit. I had assumed that they would just cancel this permit and then I'd get the new Non-B and apply for new WP for my new workplace. However, the officer at the Labour Department gave my WP back to the secretary with a bunch of paperwork and said something about a transfer ... it really wasn't clear and I'm in the process of chasing this up. At the time, the secretary said not to worry as they needed nothing further from me in regards to this.

So then I went to Laos to apply for the new Non B. The first time was a Friday and the Embassy was closed by 12 of course so I wouldn't have made it in time (various complications held me back for good reason and I didn't know I couldn't make it in time until I was back at the Laos border!). The second time I made it to the Embassy only to be turned back - only for not having a letter from the Ministry of Education.

It has long been a 'requirement' to have a Bachelors to obtain a Non B. However, many educational establishments accept teachers without a degree and especially in the provincial areas where I have been teaching. My point is, the lack of a Bachelors has not proved to be a problem before now - a letter from the workplace stating I have a Bachelors and my transcripts were enough. I can only assume the workplace issued this letter having realised my equivalent to an Associates Degree was adequately equivalent to a Bachelors, hence why they could say I had one in the letter.

The issue with local Immigration came about because the secretary went along without me and didn't know the full script to explain all of this. Immigration here seem to think the lack of degree will be my main problem. I'd say that it's up to the Thai Embassy in Laos and not the local Immigration Police.

I'm not 'trying to tell the Thai Government' anything Tombkk, I'm simply confused as to how problematic this situation has become when these problems have never presented themselves in this way before. I realise getting a degree would be the sure fire way of avoiding this rut again, but in the meantime that ain't immediately do-able.

[tombkk]

Trompelelmode82, you do not need to apply for a new visa when you change jobs.

Yes, you need to go to immi and declare that you quit the old one, and you need to present a letter from the old employer saying the same. In my case, they also asked for a PNG 1 (income tax document) from the old employer. Then you go straight to the other counter and apply for the new visa and work permit.

I have changed jobs a couple of times over the past 20 years and I never needed to leave the country because of that. However, I do business and am not a teacher, so maybe there is a difference.

[trompelemonde82]

Trompelelmode82, you do not need to apply for a new visa when you change jobs.

Yes, you need to go to immi and declare that you quit the old one, and you need to present a letter from the old employer saying the same. In my case, they also asked for a PNG 1 (income tax document) from the old employer. Then you go straight to the other counter and apply for the new visa and work permit.

I have changed jobs a couple of times over the past 20 years and I never needed to leave the country because of that. However, I do business and am not a teacher, so maybe there is a difference.

dam_n it! If only I'd known that earlier...it'd have saved so much hassle. The Non B from my previous employer was due a 90 day report for extension but at that time I had ceased to work with them and had my new job lined up. Because the visa expired before I could make it to Laos, (as my workplace hadn't provided all required documents before I could go to do a transfer / apply for new Non B ) I had to pay 2 day overstay fine. Then I only got a 15 day stamp when leaving again once the Embassy knocked me back for not having the letter from the Ministry of Education. The letter from employer sufficed in place of this in two previous Non B Applications so I'm hoping it will be again. If not, I'll just have to get a tourist visa then get the letter before re-applying.

[lopburi3]

The above would only be true if permitted to use the one stop service center (BOI promoted industries) as immigration has nothing to do with the issue of work permits.

[guavagirl]

Recently went to the Los Angeles consulate and was informed that all Thai embassies have been instructed to stop issuing multi entry non imm B visas. They are to issue single entry and let immigrations in Bangkok issue permit to reenter.

Actually this is not 100% true. If you hold a WP then you will get a multi entry Non-B. If you do not hold a WP then you will only get the single entry.

[tombkk]

The above would only be true if permitted to use the one stop service center (BOI promoted industries) as immigration has nothing to do with the issue of work permits.

We are talking about visas here, not work permits. Whether working for BOI companies entitled to use the one-stop, or other companies: You don't have to leave the country and get a new non-imm B if you change jobs.

That's a general truth. I changed jobs from non-BOI to non-Boi, from non-Boi to BOI, and from BOI to non-Boi (most recently) and never had to leave the country to get a new visa.

[lopburi3]

Actually we are not talking about visas but about extensions of stay and you posted:

Then you go straight to the other counter and apply for the new visa and work permit.

This could only be done at the One Stop Service Center; as I posted.

[tombkk]

Actually we are not talking about visas but about extensions of stay and you posted:

Then you go straight to the other counter and apply for the new visa and work permit.

This could only be done at the One Stop Service Center; as I posted.

You are right, of course.

Correct is: Apply for the new work permit and extension of stay the same morning.