Obtaining Custody Of A Child Born Out Of Wedlock

[dgrimes77]

Hello everyone. Thank you in advance for any comments and advice about my situation. I have read through some similar topics posted and found a lot of good information. I would like to post my current situation and see if any of you have any experience and advice on the best course for me to take. So here's my situation: I am a US citizen and my ex-girlfriend (Thai citizen) is 5 months pregnant with our child. I have no reason to believe the child is not mine, as the mother and I were living in South Korea together when the child was conceived. However, since then, we have broken up and she is now living in Koh Samui and I am back home in the US. We have discussed how to handle our situation and have mutually agreed that it is best for me to take the child back to the US and raise it. I know that fathers have no parental rights in Thailand when children are born out of wedlock and I realize there is a legitmation process through the Thai courts. However, since I live on the opposite side of the world and do not have the means or time to frequently travel back and forth, I am trying to figure out the process and time involved in getting custody of the child. Is there anyway to avoid the Thai courts and have the child registered at the US Embassy, given a US passport, and then travel back to the US with me? I have read where the courts could take 6 months to process this. Does anyone have experience with this type of situation or advice on how best to proceed?

On another note, does anyone have any information on hospitals in Koh Samui and how much it may cost for delivery? She has told me 60-100k baht for a government hospital but I want to verify if that amount is accurate. Thanks!

[mkawish]

Oh dear.... you surely do not sound like you are ready to take upon your shoulder the awful responsibility of raising a baby regardless of gender, at this time.

I was hoping to read that the expectant mother is back with her parents in peace. To be a single Thai lady and lives in Samui, a Farang infested playground does not sound very comforting to me, even though I am not at all related to either of you.

I am a firm believer that during the conception, parental behaviors, way of life and dietary intakes do impact the developing child immensely. If you could do it, get her out of Samui and the tourist town environ to somewhere where she can somewhat rest and feed your baby each and everyday in peace. Well, do whatever suites you best and for the best interests of your yet unborn child.

To be eligible for a US passport, as your arrangements and living conditions are not ideal to meet all consulate requirements at this moment, irrespective if you can arrange for legal adoption successfully through Thai legal system or not, you might be asked to satisfy the DNA issue which would cost around 300 usd plus administrative fees at the consulate, plus consulate representative fees to gather DNA evidence at the assigned hospital, and plus Physician fee and other prep fee et cetera.... which might be additionally required in your case. The consulate staff will probably suggest some other alternatives for you to provide satisfactory evidences to prove beyond reasonable doubts whatever the consulate staff doubts.

Several previous posts in some other sections suggest that the cost of delivery a normal baby at a govt hospital ranges from a few hundred THB to a few thousand THB.

In other cases, where I have been a first hand observer, the cost at a private hospital ranges from a 1,000 to several thousand USD, depending on the complexity during delivery.

The amount your former partner suggested in my opinion is at the high end. But if you can afford it, why not my friend?

Almost all Thai ob-gyn are notoriously biased toward C-procedure which you and/or your partner do have your rights to protest and say NO C pls, we want a natural child birth. They just want a fast and clean operation which suites them perfectly but you have to ask if such is also best suited for your situation and condition as well.

A govt hospital would cost much less than 100,000 THB as far as I can recall. My dearest Mom, bless her, was an ob too. Love You Mom.

Wishing you, the baby and the mother the very best. Meanwhile, do ascertain that the mother is eating well including supplementary vitamins and minerals, and resting plenty. Perhaps you can beg some friends in Thailand to watch over this very serious matter.

[venturalaw]

To answer your question without the moralizing rhetoric, make certain that you are listed as the father on the Thai birth certificate. Have U.S. passport sized photos taken of your baby and take them with the Thai birth certificate to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok (or Consulate office in Chiang Mai if that is closer). Your baby and your ex-girlfriend must accompany you.

A Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240) will be issued for your child. You will also be able to apply for your child's passport. Once issued, take your child to the U.S.

Edited to add: It would be a good idea to also seek to have a Thai passport issued for your baby to enable him/her to return to Thailand and stay for as long as he/she desires without the necessity to seek the issuance of a visa.

Edited December 17, 2010 by venturalaw

[Mario2008]

A court procedure in Thailand to register the birth would not take 6 months if the mother agrees with you that you are the father. You might be able to do it through representation by your lawyer, without you being present.

Note that you become the father if you marry the mother. Next you can divorce again at the amphur and enter an agreement that you will have sole custody over the child.

With the consular birth report your child will become a US-citizen, next to being a Thai citizen. It does establish your parenthood under US-law, not under Thai law. Also I suspect that other countries will not recognize your parenthood, as that must be established under Thai law as the child will be born in Thailand. (In practice this should not be a problem, only under exceptional circumstances could this play a role).

Edit:

A birth at a government hospital will cost nowhere near that. But for a complete package at a privage hospital this could be an accurate price.

[MikeyIdea]

Congratulations

Government hospital for (less than) 10 thousand baht will be fine, private for 30+ more comfortable of course. I agree with mkawish that a calm and quiet environment would be better for the mother. - keeping her away from the grand mother may be good in another way though. You should not be surprised if the mother changes her mind about letting you take care of the child after having given birth to her, please remember that it is her right to do so if she does. Also remember and respect that she is in her full right to deny you to bring the child abroad if she wants to. You need to negotiate if she changes her mind. You should be fair to the mother and pay child aliminy regardless of if she allows you to bring child to the US or not. It's peanuts at less than $150 a month anyway.

I am not American so I don't know about what you need but I am sure Ventualaw does. If you do get an American passport, also ask the mother to write a letter permitting you to take the child abroad and make sure you get at least a copy of the birth certificate. I would ask the mother to go to the amphur where the child was born and get a new original too actually (only the mother can do that before you legitimize the child), she'd have to state that the old one was lost probably. Or perhaps keep the original with you and give the mother the copy.

Beware of the grand mother... Make sure to teach the mother that if the mother doesn't take care of the child, then the father does, grand parents have NO rights whatsoever. Ask the mother to tell her mother so that expectations are set right already at the beginning

Proper legitimization can be started by a lawyer when you are abroad but from what I know, I think you will have to show yourself one or two times (if legitimization and shared custody is not contested), not sure how many times but a lawyer specialising in family law can tell you. Or maybe Mario2008 is correct and you can do it via representation but I doubt it, you probably have to show yourself once anyway

Good Luck, be a Good and Loving Father

Edited December 17, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[Ulysses G.]

To answer your question without the moralizing rhetoric, make certain that you are listed as the father on the Thai birth certificate. Have U.S. passport sized photos taken of your baby and take them with the Thai birth certificate to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok (or Consulate office in Chiang Mai if that is closer). Your baby and your ex-girlfriend must accompany you.

A Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240) will be issued for your child. You will also be able to apply for your child's passport. Once issued, take your child to the U.S.

Edited to add: It would be a good idea to also seek to have a Thai passport issued for your baby to enable him/her to return to Thailand and stay for as long as he/she desires without the necessity to seek the issuance of a visa.

Sounds like good, solid advice.

[slapout]

To answer your question without the moralizing rhetoric, make certain that you are listed as the father on the Thai birth certificate. Have U.S. passport sized photos taken of your baby and take them with the Thai birth certificate to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok (or Consulate office in Chiang Mai if that is closer). Your baby and your ex-girlfriend must accompany you.

A Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240) will be issued for your child. You will also be able to apply for your child's passport. Once issued, take your child to the U.S.

Edited to add: It would be a good idea to also seek to have a Thai passport issued for your baby to enable him/her to return to Thailand and stay for as long as he/she desires without the necessity to seek the issuance of a visa.

Just to add a little to above, which can enter into the documentation of the newborn. As you were not married when the child was conceived/born the Consultant/embassy will need verification that you and girl friend were together at time of conception, (passports, visas, etc), A doctors statement, concerning care, birth, etc, then the mentioned documents can be issued. Check the TV forum for child birth and costs. the figure that your girl friend quoted for government hospital, appears way high, is she using the so called 30 baht card? A couple friends have received sole custody of their children and both used a lawyer with the proper forms filled out and signed, only the girl friend or wife was involved. They did make a one time payment to the mother of child and the lawyer to ensure everything was legal and there would be no future comeback.

[venturalaw]

Understand that it is not required that a Thai court award custody to you. It appears, due to you not being married to the mother, that this would not be an option. However, if you were to marry and be awarded custody in a Thai court, it could later become problematic if you intend to remain in the U.S. with the child.

For instance, under California law, it would be advantageous that there is no prior court order from another jurisdiction regarding custody. That way, if custody is later challenged and you are a resident of California, said challenge would be unsuccessful. However, if there is already an order regarding custody in Thailand, then California may seek to impose the Thai order, and possibly apply Thai law, in determining custody. All of this would be avoided if California was the only jurisdiction involved.

Edited December 17, 2010 by venturalaw

[TAWP]

She has told me 60-100k baht for a government hospital but I want to verify if that amount is accurate. Thanks!

My son was born with c-section for 37k baht in a private hospital, including private (non-shared) room.

Government hospital might be around 1-2k baht...

When she quotes like this, make sure she isn't just taking you for a ride about everything. Getting deluxe-delivery, money on the side and then turn around and not sign any paper to give you custody...

[slapout]

Just a few questions for the op, how long since you have seen the ex girl friend? Were you aware she was pregnant when you separated? Has she been to a doctor since she returned to Koh Somui?

You note she is living on Koh Somui. who with? How is she supporting herself? These are some questions that may come up during the procedure to get the child US citizenship.

[Sheryl]

I suggest you go to the US Embassy and discuss this with a consular officer directly so as to be 100% certain of the regulations and requirement.

It might also be advisable to consult a Thai lawyer specializing in family law.

Lastly you need to prepare yourself for the possibility that your GF may change her mind about letting you have the baby once she delivers. How she feels 5 months into the pregnancy and how she will feel after the birth may be worlds apart.

[mkawish]

I suggest you go to the US Embassy and discuss this with a consular officer directly so as to be 100% certain of the regulations and requirement.

It might also be advisable to consult a Thai lawyer specializing in family law.

Lastly you need to prepare yourself for the possibility that your GF may change her mind about letting you have the baby once she delivers. How she feels 5 months into the pregnancy and how she will feel after the birth may be worlds apart.

Sheryl

You are so very right from every angles and perspectives.

A very wise woman whose counsel is weightier than gold and rubies.

Some very close friend offered one mil which delighted his girlfriend, the expectant mother, to no end.

However, as Sheryl perceived, after birth, the offer was upgraded to two for the sole custody and permanent agreement to have the boy raised overseas.

Eleven months after the boy arrived, the Farang father was only allowed occasional visitation.

The mother demanded two-year proof that the father shows genuine interests in his son, that only a woman, a mother intuition could perceive.

Not taking any side, she has every right to such demand of a man who wants to be the boy's father.

And the biological father? He privately agrees, she has proved to be a better parent than he.

And he is determined than ever before during the next thirteen months to behave better and to perform better as a responsible father.

A glass of Eggnog for the very wise Sheryl.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone.

Edited December 18, 2010 by mkawish

[mkawish]

She has told me 60-100k baht for a government hospital but I want to verify if that amount is accurate. Thanks!

My son was born with c-section for 37k baht in a private hospital, including private (non-shared) room.

Government hospital might be around 1-2k baht...

When she quotes like this, make sure she isn't just taking you for a ride about everything. Getting deluxe-delivery, money on the side and then turn around and not sign any paper to give you custody...

TAWP

So if she decides not to, then what do you suggest, pls?

Do you perceive that she might have some rights to say yae or nay even in Thailand?

Does biological father has equal or more rights than the biological mother in the court of laws even in Thailand?

Why would a good and decent mother agree to have also her own flesh and blood being taken overseas for however long?

imho, a mother has every right to also reject any thing that she personally perceives, that would be detrimental to her child, even the father himself, if he behaves in her opinion irresponsibly.

Women do have that God given rights too, even in the so-called third world society and economics, imho.

It is just that most women in the third world have not been accorded, afforded and allowed that rights to speak out like most westerners do.

Somehow it is a shame for the male dominated society to suppress and oppress and take unfair advantages of the weaker gender or whoever.

We ought to ask ourselves more frequently, if "she" were our own sister or close relatives, TAWP, would we accept such unfair treatment, Farang or otherwise, in Thailand or otherwise?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone.

[venturalaw]

She has told me 60-100k baht for a government hospital but I want to verify if that amount is accurate. Thanks!

My son was born with c-section for 37k baht in a private hospital, including private (non-shared) room.

Government hospital might be around 1-2k baht...

When she quotes like this, make sure she isn't just taking you for a ride about everything. Getting deluxe-delivery, money on the side and then turn around and not sign any paper to give you custody...

TAWP

So if she decides not to, then what do you suggest, pls?

Do you perceive that she might have some rights to say yae or nay even in Thailand?

Does biological father has equal or more rights than the biological mother in the court of laws even in Thailand?

Why would a good and decent mother agree to have also her own flesh and blood being taken overseas for however long?

imho, a mother has every right to also reject any thing that she personally perceives, that would be detrimental to her child, even the father himself, if he behaves in her opinion irresponsibly.

Women do have that God given rights too, even in the so-called third world society and economics, imho.

It is just that most women in the third world have not been accorded, afforded and allowed that rights to speak out like most westerners do.

Somehow it is a shame for the male dominated society to suppress and oppress and take unfair advantages of the weaker gender or whoever.

We ought to ask ourselves more frequently, if "she" were our own sister or close relatives, TAWP, would we accept such unfair treatment, Farang or otherwise, in Thailand or otherwise?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone.

K'mkawish, what is it about the statements by K'TAWP that you find untrue? The suggestion that a Thai woman could possibly attempt to take advantage of a western man? There are hundreds, if not thousands of examples of Thai women's duplicity posted here on ThaiVisa over the years.

As K'Mario2008 pointed out a father of a child in Thailand has no rights if he is not married to the mother. So why are you questioning a woman's rights??? In this case the mother pretty much holds all of the cards. If she is attempting to cheat him financially, as it so appears from the posts relating to the cost of child birth, why would you believe that she is trustworthy? Furthermore, except for her alleged dishonesty regarding the anticipated cost of childbirth, what is the "unfair treatment" to which you are referring? And where is there evidence of the OP attempting to "suppress and oppress and take unfair advantages of the weaker gender or whoever."?

To correct your sexist statement: A mother OR A FATHER has every right to also reject any thing that she OR HE personally perceives, that would be detrimental to her OR HIS child, even the father himself OR MOTHER HERSELF, if he OR SHE behaves in her OR HIS opinion irresponsibly. However, in Thailand, unfortunately, only the woman has this right if the parents of the child are not married.

[mkawish]

She has told me 60-100k baht for a government hospital but I want to verify if that amount is accurate. Thanks!

My son was born with c-section for 37k baht in a private hospital, including private (non-shared) room.

Government hospital might be around 1-2k baht...

When she quotes like this, make sure she isn't just taking you for a ride about everything. Getting deluxe-delivery, money on the side and then turn around and not sign any paper to give you custody...

TAWP

So if she decides not to, then what do you suggest, pls?

Do you perceive that she might have some rights to say yae or nay even in Thailand?

Does biological father has equal or more rights than the biological mother in the court of laws even in Thailand?

Why would a good and decent mother agree to have also her own flesh and blood being taken overseas for however long?

imho, a mother has every right to also reject any thing that she personally perceives, that would be detrimental to her child, even the father himself, if he behaves in her opinion irresponsibly.

Women do have that God given rights too, even in the so-called third world society and economics, imho.

It is just that most women in the third world have not been accorded, afforded and allowed that rights to speak out like most westerners do.

Somehow it is a shame for the male dominated society to suppress and oppress and take unfair advantages of the weaker gender or whoever.

We ought to ask ourselves more frequently, if "she" were our own sister or close relatives, TAWP, would we accept such unfair treatment, Farang or otherwise, in Thailand or otherwise?

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year everyone.

K'mkawish, what is it about the statements by K'TAWP that you find untrue? The suggestion that a Thai woman could possibly attempt to take advantage of a western man? There are hundreds, if not thousands of examples of Thai women's duplicity posted here on ThaiVisa over the years.

As K'Mario2008 pointed out a father of a child in Thailand has no rights if he is not married to the mother. So why are you questioning a woman's rights??? In this case the mother pretty much holds all of the cards. If she is attempting to cheat him financially, as it so appears from the posts relating to the cost of child birth, why would you believe that she is trustworthy? Furthermore, except for her alleged dishonesty regarding the anticipated cost of childbirth, what is the "unfair treatment" to which you are referring? And where is there evidence of the OP attempting to "suppress and oppress and take unfair advantages of the weaker gender or whoever."?

To correct your sexist statement: A mother OR A FATHER has every right to also reject any thing that she OR HE personally perceives, that would be detrimental to her OR HIS child, even the father himself OR MOTHER HERSELF, if he OR SHE behaves in her OR HIS opinion irresponsibly. However, in Thailand, unfortunately, only the woman has this right if the parents of the child are not married.

venturalaw

There are always two or even three sides to a coin. In the court of laws, even when you are innocent, you can be convicted.

I can unequivocally state that because I once was an innocent defendant but was convicted anyway. The other time, I was the plaintiff suing to recover fraudulent accounting practices, but lost out too. Yes, I can also tell you all that there are innocent persons in prison too, that I could also testify personally, cause I was assisting a prison hospital ward many years ago.

In this world of realities, particularly in Thailand, just ask yourself:

WHAT I AM DOING HERE TOWARD THE WEAKER GENDER or others,

WILL IT BE ACCEPTED IN MY OWN COUNTRY BY MY OWN PEOPLE AND

MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF OTHERS WERE TREATING ME LIKE THAT, WOULD I GLEEFULLY ACCEPT SUCH TREATMENT?

If your response is yes, it is acceptable in my country and by my people and by my very self;

then I would probably concede to your behaviors in Thailand, at your own moral standards.

If not, then perhaps you should ask yourself as well, whether or not, other humans should be subject to the same or different expectations and treatments?

If everyone of us would remember to operate from the principle of 'treating others as myself',

the questions of whether others are cheating us out of something or not, would probably not surface or matter much, as well.

I guess, everyone has different expectations in life, but the gold rule has never changed--

DO UNTO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULD EXPECT OTHERS TO DO UNTO YOU.

What is yours, venturalaw?

Another point for some of us Farang to ponder is--if this is such a disgusting place, there are many many other countries to consider, right?

Why bother to spend your money and time in some place that does not delight you, uplift you, nor meet your personal standards of living or philosophy of life?

No one confines us here, we are free to move to any place we like and where we would be happy every day of our life.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, venturalaw, TAWP and all.

[slapout]

Life is a crap shoot and snake eyes come up quite often when the ivories hit the backboard. Some people seem to miss out on the winning roll for what ever reason.

[venturalaw]

K'mkawish, I am very happy living here in the LOS. But no place is perfect. And as I stated that there have been stories posted on ThaiVisa of Thai women being less than forthcoming in dealings with foreigners, so have there been misfortunes experienced by Thai women at the hands of foreign men. And, of course, there are Thai men that are not innocent of committing sins against Thai women and westerners.

The reason why I brought up the issue was in response to your rather slanted view, as I read it, in favor of the woman (as you refer to as the "weaker gender"). Most of us, men and women, have had the misfortune of being victims of those who prefer to get through life by taking advantage of others. However, which scenario is more likely to occur in Thailand:

1. A foreigner comes to Thailand, marries a Thai lady, and uses his money to purchases a house, and/or business, and then loses one or both to his Thai bride before being forced to leave the country?

OR

2. A foreigner comes to Thailand, marries a Thai lady, and uses her money to purchases a house, and/or business, and then the Thai woman loses one or both to her foreign husband before being forced to leave the country?

In response to your questions - "WHAT I AM DOING HERE TOWARD THE WEAKER GENDER or others,

WILL IT BE ACCEPTED IN MY OWN COUNTRY BY MY OWN PEOPLE AND

MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF OTHERS WERE TREATING ME LIKE THAT, WOULD I GLEEFULLY ACCEPT SUCH TREATMENT?"

1. I am not doing anything here 'toward' (whatever that means)the weaker gender or others.

2. "Will it be accepted in my own country by my own people . . . " - Will WHAT be accepted?

3. "If others were treating me like that . . ." - Treating me like WHAT?

If you are truly seeking an answer to your questions, please be specific.

I wish you a Merry Christmas and happy New Year as well.

[mkawish]

K'mkawish, I am very happy living here in the LOS. But no place is perfect. And as I stated that there have been stories posted on ThaiVisa of Thai women being less than forthcoming in dealings with foreigners, so have there been misfortunes experienced by Thai women at the hands of foreign men. And, of course, there are Thai men that are not innocent of committing sins against Thai women and westerners.

The reason why I brought up the issue was in response to your rather slanted view, as I read it, in favor of the woman (as you refer to as the "weaker gender"). Most of us, men and women, have had the misfortune of being victims of those who prefer to get through life by taking advantage of others. However, which scenario is more likely to occur in Thailand:

1. A foreigner comes to Thailand, marries a Thai lady, and uses his money to purchases a house, and/or business, and then loses one or both to his Thai bride before being forced to leave the country?

OR

2. A foreigner comes to Thailand, marries a Thai lady, and uses her money to purchases a house, and/or business, and then the Thai woman loses one or both to her foreign husband before being forced to leave the country?

In response to your questions - "WHAT I AM DOING HERE TOWARD THE WEAKER GENDER or others,

WILL IT BE ACCEPTED IN MY OWN COUNTRY BY MY OWN PEOPLE AND

MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF OTHERS WERE TREATING ME LIKE THAT, WOULD I GLEEFULLY ACCEPT SUCH TREATMENT?"

1. I am not doing anything here 'toward' (whatever that means)the weaker gender or others.

2. "Will it be accepted in my own country by my own people . . . " - Will WHAT be accepted?

3. "If others were treating me like that . . ." - Treating me like WHAT?

If you are truly seeking an answer to your questions, please be specific.

I wish you a Merry Christmas and happy New Year as well.

venturalaw

I really never intended to question you or others regarding the ulterior motives K?

I truly wish you would think of the feminine gender in more than one dimension, plse.

It truly does not make any different to me as a person whatever other fellows think or do to the feminine gender or otherwise.

There are too many good reasons for a man or woman to do something and try to explain it in their own terms and

justify their actions in their own acceptable rationalization--which do not really bother me a bit in reality.

In terms of relationship, it is always wise to examine minutely our own motive rather than others'.

What I like to humbly leave with you and others on Thaivisa is--

If we can not love the other person as we love ourselves, then perhaps, we should not enter into that relationship which

more probably than not, would turn sour; particularly in Thailand where cultural differences are huge and could quickly become insurmountable for many to cope with.

Once more, there is no intention on my part trying to question or examine others' ulterior motives.

We only have to live with our own good selves, right?

If one can live peacefully with oneself, then who is to say--the person is not happy.

And if a person is happy in whatever he/she indulges in, regardless if we are in agreement or not, we are not taking any responsibility for that person, either.

Have a safe holidays, everyone.

[venturalaw]

K'mkawish, I am very happy living here in the LOS. But no place is perfect. And as I stated that there have been stories posted on ThaiVisa of Thai women being less than forthcoming in dealings with foreigners, so have there been misfortunes experienced by Thai women at the hands of foreign men. And, of course, there are Thai men that are not innocent of committing sins against Thai women and westerners.

The reason why I brought up the issue was in response to your rather slanted view, as I read it, in favor of the woman (as you refer to as the "weaker gender"). Most of us, men and women, have had the misfortune of being victims of those who prefer to get through life by taking advantage of others. However, which scenario is more likely to occur in Thailand:

1. A foreigner comes to Thailand, marries a Thai lady, and uses his money to purchases a house, and/or business, and then loses one or both to his Thai bride before being forced to leave the country?

OR

2. A foreigner comes to Thailand, marries a Thai lady, and uses her money to purchases a house, and/or business, and then the Thai woman loses one or both to her foreign husband before being forced to leave the country?

In response to your questions - "WHAT I AM DOING HERE TOWARD THE WEAKER GENDER or others,

WILL IT BE ACCEPTED IN MY OWN COUNTRY BY MY OWN PEOPLE AND

MOST IMPORTANTLY, IF OTHERS WERE TREATING ME LIKE THAT, WOULD I GLEEFULLY ACCEPT SUCH TREATMENT?"

1. I am not doing anything here 'toward' (whatever that means)the weaker gender or others.

2. "Will it be accepted in my own country by my own people . . . " - Will WHAT be accepted?

3. "If others were treating me like that . . ." - Treating me like WHAT?

If you are truly seeking an answer to your questions, please be specific.

I wish you a Merry Christmas and happy New Year as well.

venturalaw

I really never intended to question you or others regarding the ulterior motives K?

I truly wish you would think of the feminine gender in more than one dimension, plse.

It truly does not make any different to me as a person whatever other fellows think or do to the feminine gender or otherwise.

There are too many good reasons for a man or woman to do something and try to explain it in their own terms and

justify their actions in their own acceptable rationalization--which do not really bother me a bit in reality.

In terms of relationship, it is always wise to examine minutely our own motive rather than others'.

What I like to humbly leave with you and others on Thaivisa is--

If we can not love the other person as we love ourselves, then perhaps, we should not enter into that relationship which

more probably than not, would turn sour; particularly in Thailand where cultural differences are huge and could quickly become insurmountable for many to cope with.

Once more, there is no intention on my part trying to question or examine others' ulterior motives.

We only have to live with our own good selves, right?

If one can live peacefully with oneself, then who is to say--the person is not happy.

And if a person is happy in whatever he/she indulges in, regardless if we are in agreement or not, we are not taking any responsibility for that person, either.

Have a safe holidays, everyone.

I completely agree with the above that I have put into bold. Very well said.

[Ulysses G.]

What I like to humbly leave with you and others on Thaivisa is--

If we can not love the other person as we love ourselves, then perhaps, we should not enter into that relationship

Very idealistic, but not very practical. There would be about 10 relationships on the whole planet if people tried to stick to that rule.

[harrry]

Some posters have pointed out it should be nearly free on the Gold card scheme ( once 30baht) and this is true however it must be at the hospital where she is registered and that it will almost certainly be at her mother's address. Charges at other hospitals would be her responsibility.

Edited December 19, 2010 by harrry

[mkawish]

What I like to humbly leave with you and others on Thaivisa is--

If we can not love the other person as we love ourselves, then perhaps, we should not enter into that relationship

Very idealistic, but not very practical. There would be about 10 relationships on the whole planet if people tried to stick to that rule.

Agree with you wholeheartedly, Ulysses.

It hurts deeply when you love others as yourself when your loved persons fail to demonstrate the depth of love in return.

It hurts even more if and when your loved person betrays you.

But then I also discover joy deep down in my heart to see the loved person also danced in joy and happiness on their own.

The question I often ponder is, how much does it cost me to enable another human to be happy for a day, a week, a month, a year or a few years?

This is a season to be jolly, let's do something to allow someone to be happy that won't cost us an arm and a leg, shall we?

Abundant blessings for everyone. If we can, let's remember and do something for persons who used to make us happy when we were much younger, if they are still around, particularly those who love us and do things for us out of the kindness of their hearts. :jap:

[MikeyIdea]

Some posters have pointed out it should be nearly free on the Gold card scheme ( once 30baht) and this is true however it must be at the hospital where she is registered and that it will almost certainly be at her mother's address. Charges at other hospitals would be her responsibility.

We should expect that the the total lowest cost for giving birth at a government hospital is around 10,000 bath. That is the lower end. A woman is pregnent for 9 months too, don't forget that. She will feel sick, she will feel horrible sometimes and 8 hours waiting at a government hospital is not always acceptable, left with private hospital/decent clinic being the only good option and it and should be the fathers responsibility to help the woman he has made pregnant. I still think that government hospitals are good enough, they're pretty good and knowledge of something as natural as a child birth is excellent, they are just not for every occasion. 10,000 bath minimum is the hospital costs only for the whole period and it is minimum really, it can easily go up to more.

I think you have the right to sign in anywhere, not only at the hospital where you are registered as living

Edited December 20, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[dgrimes77]

To answer your question without the moralizing rhetoric, make certain that you are listed as the father on the Thai birth certificate. Have U.S. passport sized photos taken of your baby and take them with the Thai birth certificate to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok (or Consulate office in Chiang Mai if that is closer). Your baby and your ex-girlfriend must accompany you.

A Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240) will be issued for your child. You will also be able to apply for your child's passport. Once issued, take your child to the U.S.

Edited to add: It would be a good idea to also seek to have a Thai passport issued for your baby to enable him/her to return to Thailand and stay for as long as he/she desires without the necessity to seek the issuance of a visa.

Thanks for the info venturalaw. Do you know anyone who has actually done this? I have read this on other posts before, but wasn't sure if it was 100% that this could be done or just made sense to the poster. From what I've read, it seems that it takes about 2 weeks for the passport and CRBA to be issued. Do you think I would have any problems getting through immigration? Also, are there any potential future reprecussions of not going through the Thai courts for custody?

[Mario2008]

If you don't have custody over the child you will be guilty of kidnaping the minute the mothers wants her child back and you don't give it to her, as you are not the legal parent of the child. The mother only allows you to take care of the child and can revoke her permission.

A Thai court will say that the custody must be arranged according to Thai law, as the child was born in Thailand and will not recognise any US-court decision. Other countries might either follow a Thai court decision or the US court decision. It could make your international traveling complicated.

[MikeyIdea]

If you don't have custody over the child you will be guilty of kidnaping the minute the mothers wants her child back and you don't give it to her, as you are not the legal parent of the child. The mother only allows you to take care of the child and can revoke her permission.

A Thai court will say that the custody must be arranged according to Thai law, as the child was born in Thailand and will not recognise any US-court decision. Other countries might either follow a Thai court decision or the US court decision. It could make your international traveling complicated.

Yes, and the option to simply write a custody agreement according to paragraph 1566-6 without father first being legitimized does not hold if it is challenged. There has been one case in the supreme court where the court simply dis-regarded the custody agreement written because father was not legitimised. Father must be formally legitimised before a custody agreement can done. According to article in your sticky thread

[MikeyIdea]

To answer your question without the moralizing rhetoric, make certain that you are listed as the father on the Thai birth certificate. Have U.S. passport sized photos taken of your baby and take them with the Thai birth certificate to the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok (or Consulate office in Chiang Mai if that is closer). Your baby and your ex-girlfriend must accompany you.

A Consular Report of Birth Abroad (FS-240) will be issued for your child. You will also be able to apply for your child's passport. Once issued, take your child to the U.S.

Edited to add: It would be a good idea to also seek to have a Thai passport issued for your baby to enable him/her to return to Thailand and stay for as long as he/she desires without the necessity to seek the issuance of a visa.

Thanks for the info venturalaw. Do you know anyone who has actually done this? I have read this on other posts before, but wasn't sure if it was 100% that this could be done or just made sense to the poster. From what I've read, it seems that it takes about 2 weeks for the passport and CRBA to be issued. Do you think I would have any problems getting through immigration? Also, are there any potential future reprecussions of not going through the Thai courts for custody?

Yes, I was first denied this when I took my daughter born in Thailand dual nationality abroad the first time. I got through in the end but I may not have been able to had I not been able to discuss with the immigration supervisor in quick Thai. You need minimum birth certificate the first time, it should become easier when passport has stamps in it already

[venturalaw]

If you don't have custody over the child you will be guilty of kidnaping the minute the mothers wants her child back and you don't give it to her, as you are not the legal parent of the child. The mother only allows you to take care of the child and can revoke her permission.

A Thai court will say that the custody must be arranged according to Thai law, as the child was born in Thailand and will not recognise any US-court decision. Other countries might either follow a Thai court decision or the US court decision. It could make your international traveling complicated.

As long as he is in Thailand there could be a problem. However, if he is to settle in the States with mother's permission (written of coarse) as he indicated, the process would be simple. In California, file a Complaint To Establish Parental Relationship and seek to have himself adjudicated as father with sole legal and physical custody. He would have the Thai birth certificate, and the CRBA as evidence of his parentage for the court.

[Mario2008]

As said, that might stick in the US. I'm questioning if it will stick in the rest of the world. Other countries might be inclined to insist that Thai law be followed and not US law, as the child was born in Thailand and should be legitimized under Thai law.

Of course there is also the treaty on the rights of the child, and many countries will consider it to be in the interest of the child to be raised by the father if he already takes care of the child for a long time. Many countries the interest of the child gives a judge a lot of descretionary powers. The main concern will be that Thai law will not recognise the decision by a US-court.

[satangman]

here is my story from another post........

On september 2nd of this year. my girlfriend had a baby in kk... i was not there for the birth..

as my son come early, to clear up something for you....i did get there inside the time given to register my son at the local amphur...( after 14days of the birth a fine is issued if still not registed.)

the thing i want to make clear is...... you can give your son your surname.....

i went to register my sons birth with my gf... and the boss at amphur said cannot give farangs surname if not married.....

i thought about this........hmmmm

so i decided to call my embassy (aus) just to check......if the local amphur is right.....

so is what happen was the thai lady at my embassy said 'yes' can give farang name on the birth paper...

i told her what the amphur said... she said they follow old school rules.... because they not follow or maybe not know the new laws...??

she then spoke to the boss at amphur..although he was not happy about it... my son was given my surname.. not my girlfriends..

after more paper work and my thumb print we where give the birth paper....

the point i am trying to get across.... always check with your embassy about the rules when your girl is having a baby in thailand...

as once the birth paper is issued its very hard to change back...

i hope this might help anyone... cheers

so is what i am say from this other post... make your son or daughter have your surname...... then dual citizenship... then take the baby there to the us....

if you need help ask your embassy....

no one here can help you unless either they have been through the same thing...... just ask your embassy... and they will help you...

best of luck......