Obtaining Custody Of A Child Born Out Of Wedlock

[andrewbkk]

Some posters have pointed out it should be nearly free on the Gold card scheme ( once 30baht) and this is true however it must be at the hospital where she is registered and that it will almost certainly be at her mother's address. Charges at other hospitals would be her responsibility.

We should expect that the the total lowest cost for giving birth at a government hospital is around 10,000 bath. That is the lower end. A woman is pregnent for 9 months too, don't forget that. She will feel sick, she will feel horrible sometimes and 8 hours waiting at a government hospital is not always acceptable, left with private hospital/decent clinic being the only good option and it and should be the fathers responsibility to help the woman he has made pregnant. I still think that government hospitals are good enough, they're pretty good and knowledge of something as natural as a child birth is excellent, they are just not for every occasion. 10,000 bath minimum is the hospital costs only for the whole period and it is minimum really, it can easily go up to more.

I think you have the right to sign in anywhere, not only at the hospital where you are registered as living

My son was born six years ago at Phumiphon Hospital in Phahon Yothin Road, Bangkok. Including the (probably unnecessary) cesarian and a three day stay, the cost was 6,000 Baht. And service, btw, was very good!

If the OP's ex is claiming the cost will be 60,000 - 100,000, she's probably referring to a private hospital.

[Mario2008]

That gives the child his surname, it does not make him the legal father.

[venturalaw]

As said, that might stick in the US. I'm questioning if it will stick in the rest of the world. Other countries might be inclined to insist that Thai law be followed and not US law, as the child was born in Thailand and should be legitimized under Thai law.

Of course there is also the treaty on the rights of the child, and many countries will consider it to be in the interest of the child to be raised by the father if he already takes care of the child for a long time. Many countries the interest of the child gives a judge a lot of descretionary powers. The main concern will be that Thai law will not recognise the decision by a US-court.

The fact that Thai law will not recognize a judgement of paternity from a U.S. State court is only a problem if one is in Thailand. What circumstances would cause another country to challenge the U.S. judgement? If the child has a U.S. passport, and is traveling with the father, how would the country where they are traveling through or to know that the child is Thai by birth? If father and child decide to establish residence in a country other than the U.S., and mother decides to challenge the U.S. judgement in said country, then the case would be referred to the country that issued said judgement - in this case, the U.S.

[BuddhistDruid]

Some posters have pointed out it should be nearly free on the Gold card scheme ( once 30baht) and this is true however it must be at the hospital where she is registered and that it will almost certainly be at her mother's address. Charges at other hospitals would be her responsibility.

This is true, and at the same time, not necessarily true.

In an emergency, any hospital can treat you under the gold card scheme. So, while the prenatal/antenatal care would certainly be cash only, if the baby started coming while the girl was "visiting friends" in Samui, then simply popping into any government hospital would likely result in a free delivery. The key is whether or not it is an emergency. If there is time for her to safely return to her village, then she either does that or pays cash. If, on the other hand, in the doctor's opinion it would be unsafe to ship her home, then it will be free anywhere.

There are lots of babies born in Bangkok when the mother is registered in the provinces. They never pay cash.

[Mario2008]

As said, that might stick in the US. I'm questioning if it will stick in the rest of the world. Other countries might be inclined to insist that Thai law be followed and not US law, as the child was born in Thailand and should be legitimized under Thai law.

Of course there is also the treaty on the rights of the child, and many countries will consider it to be in the interest of the child to be raised by the father if he already takes care of the child for a long time. Many countries the interest of the child gives a judge a lot of descretionary powers. The main concern will be that Thai law will not recognise the decision by a US-court.

The fact that Thai law will not recognize a judgement of paternity from a U.S. State court is only a problem if one is in Thailand. What circumstances would cause another country to challenge the U.S. judgement? If the child has a U.S. passport, and is traveling with the father, how would the country where they are traveling through or to know that the child is Thai by birth? If father and child decide to establish residence in a country other than the U.S., and mother decides to challenge the U.S. judgement in said country, then the case would be referred to the country that issued said judgement - in this case, the U.S.

If the Thai mother demands her child back and it is not given to her kidnapping charges can be brought against the person holding her child and even an international arrest warrent can be issued. In that situation it would be the question which countries law will be accpted by a third country, incase the fahter travels internationally.

I say that as the child was born in Thailand, Thai law is applicable as the child should have been legitimized according to Thai law and not US law and a third country might extradite the faher and return the child to the mother.

[venturalaw]

As said, that might stick in the US. I'm questioning if it will stick in the rest of the world. Other countries might be inclined to insist that Thai law be followed and not US law, as the child was born in Thailand and should be legitimized under Thai law.

Of course there is also the treaty on the rights of the child, and many countries will consider it to be in the interest of the child to be raised by the father if he already takes care of the child for a long time. Many countries the interest of the child gives a judge a lot of descretionary powers. The main concern will be that Thai law will not recognise the decision by a US-court.

The fact that Thai law will not recognize a judgement of paternity from a U.S. State court is only a problem if one is in Thailand. What circumstances would cause another country to challenge the U.S. judgement? If the child has a U.S. passport, and is traveling with the father, how would the country where they are traveling through or to know that the child is Thai by birth? If father and child decide to establish residence in a country other than the U.S., and mother decides to challenge the U.S. judgement in said country, then the case would be referred to the country that issued said judgement - in this case, the U.S.

If the Thai mother demands her child back and it is not given to her kidnapping charges can be brought against the person holding her child and even an international arrest warrent can be issued. In that situation it would be the question which countries law will be accpted by a third country, incase the fahter travels internationally.

I say that as the child was born in Thailand, Thai law is applicable as the child should have been legitimized according to Thai law and not US law and a third country might extradite the faher and return the child to the mother.

According to the OP, the parents "have mutually agreed that it is best for me" (the OP) "to take the child back to the US and raise it." As I stated, with said agreement in writing, and with father acquiring a U.S. State judgement of paternity, it is unlikely that mother would be successful in having the father extradited to Thailand. Now, assuming that father, a U.S. citizen, decides to move to a foreign country, other than Thailand, with the minor child, as you said, mother would have to successfully bring an action for kidnapping in Thailand. This of course would be contrary to the written agreement that father have custody, not to mention the U.S. State judgement. Furthermore, if a significant period of time has lapsed prior to her bringing said action (which is likely since after leaving Thailand with the minor, father would have settled in his home state, secured a judgement, decided to relocate to another country, and then actually make the move), I would hazard a guess that it is questionable whether mother could be victorious. But, if you have a case citation consistent with these facts that resulted in a Thai court vacating a U.S. State judgement of paternity, which was consisted with the parents written agreement, resulting in a custodial parent residing in another country being extradited, I'd be very interested in hearing about it.

Edited December 25, 2010 by venturalaw

[Mario2008]

The problem is that the father doesn't have parental rights, he only has the permission to take care of the child. This permission can be revoked by the mother at any time.

I already said that most countries will in the end rule on the base of what is in the interest of the child, and the longer the OP takes care of the child the likelier it is that it will be in the interest of the child to stay with the OP.

[MikeyIdea]

I like the discussion and I don't.

I think that it is obvoius that the child should have all the right to explore his Thai background, but if the father is NOT legally legitimized, then that is never going to be happening. It may be the fathers intention to let the child do that too, but as the mother legally can force him to hand over the child to her the next time he comes back with "his" child unless he is legitimized, if she wants to of course, then going to holiday in Thailand won't be a first choice probably. The mother can change her mind about who takes care of her child at any time, that is her right as sole guardian, the mother can accept 5,000 bath per month in a written child alimony agreement and she can change her mind and double the amount whenever she wants because if the father doesn't agree, then she can just use her right as sole guardian and change who is to take care of her child. I would never bring my daughter to a country where my legal standing was as shaky as that. Juvenile court will take a decision in the best interest of the child so if the child has been staying with the father abroad for several years and the child wants to continue to stay with the father, then it's very likely that the court will grant the childs wish, but it will mean 3 or more appearances in a Thai court and lot's of time and money spent unnecessarily. I'd rather pay USD 2,000 to 3,000 when the child is born and clear legitimization, shared custody, child alimony and with who and where the child should stay while mother and father agree.

But this is probably not a realistic discussion anyway

Because I still think that the mother is going to change her mind about giving the child to the father after she has given birth to her and nursed her for a few months