pjclark1 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Surely the only insurance any foreigner would ever need is enough money for a plane ticket back to their home country. Being asked to pay anything else to anyone is just another form of extortion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I'm afraid you are mistaken. The official regulation taken from the Immgration Bureau web site: Quote: The alien: (1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM). (2) Must be 50 years of age or over. (3) Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month; or (4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no less than 60 days prior to the filing date; or (5) Must have an annual earning and funds deposited with a bank totalling no less than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date. Unquote Some immigration officers in Phuket may find it easier to calculate it on a monthly basis using the Baht 65,000 amount as the target, and in most cases it won't make much difference. But 65,000 times twelve is only 780,000, so if your "monthly amount" comes in at less than Baht 66,667 then you don't qualify for the extension and you are likely to be refused. That's why it's important to know what the rules actually say, which is "deposit plus yearly income totalling no less than Baht 800,000". Sophon Does it have to be in a Thai bank account, or can it be in a foreign bank account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 For retirement extensions done in Thailand, the banked money must be in a Thai bank account. For O-A visas obtained in your home country, typically the money shown is in your home country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophon Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Surely the only insurance any foreigner would ever need is enough money for a plane ticket back to their home country. Being asked to pay anything else to anyone is just another form of extortion. Money for a ticket back home is of little use when you are lying in a coma in the hospital after being in a traffic accident or having suffered a stroke. I understand the reasoning behind requiring health insurance, the problem is (as have already been pointed out) that many people are unable to get insurance, or if they have insurance there are things that are not covered. Sophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizen33 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Surely the only insurance any foreigner would ever need is enough money for a plane ticket back to their home country. Being asked to pay anything else to anyone is just another form of extortion. Money for a ticket back home is of little use when you are lying in a coma in the hospital after being in a traffic accident or having suffered a stroke. I understand the reasoning behind requiring health insurance, the problem is (as have already been pointed out) that many people are unable to get insurance, or if they have insurance there are things that are not covered. Sophon Agree with this last point, and to me it is the biggest obstacle to staying in Thailand into one's late 70s and beyond (assuming that one gets there). Private insurance based on assessments of individual risk is always going to be tricky. This may even affect longstanding BUPA members, whose coverage is guaranteed but whose premiums are not. A government scheme that offered expats risk pooling and basic coverage at an affordable price would be very good news, as would reciprocal agreements to use say the Social Security Scheme for nationals from countries willing to do the same for Thais abroad. I can't see either happening though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F1fanatic Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 The CEO is just pointing out that those of us who live here are not actually welcomed in Thailand. Yes, there are a few Westerners that have no money, visa etc., and shouldn't be here. There are a few more that are easily able to support themselves and put money into the Thai community but have no (incredibly expensive) health insurance. Probably ought to point out at this point that I have BUPA cover. But, he's making it clear that we are v unwelcome to actually live here. We should come on holiday, give lots of money and f...k off! Doesn't bode well.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjclark1 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) The CEO is just pointing out that those of us who live here are not actually welcomed in Thailand. Yes, there are a few Westerners that have no money, visa etc., and shouldn't be here. There are a few more that are easily able to support themselves and put money into the Thai community but have no (incredibly expensive) health insurance. Probably ought to point out at this point that I have BUPA cover. But, he's making it clear that we are v unwelcome to actually live here. We should come on holiday, give lots of money and f...k off! Doesn't bode well.... I have no health cover, nor do I require any. If I get that sick ship me back to my home country, or let me die. How hard is that to do? Edited January 20, 2011 by pjclark1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I have no health cover, nor do I require any. If I get that sick ship me back to my home country, or let me die. How hard is that to do? If you are too sick to be allowed to fly then you are correct about your option, especially if you can't pay for hospitals bills in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) The CEO is just pointing out that those of us who live here are not actually welcomed in Thailand. Yes, there are a few Westerners that have no money, visa etc., and shouldn't be here. There are a few more that are easily able to support themselves and put money into the Thai community but have no (incredibly expensive) health insurance. Probably ought to point out at this point that I have BUPA cover. But, he's making it clear that we are v unwelcome to actually live here. We should come on holiday, give lots of money and f...k off! Doesn't bode well.... I have no health cover, nor do I require any. If I get that sick ship me back to my home country, or let me die. How hard is that to do? You are missing the point. They may bring in a law that if you want to live in Thailand, in order to get your visa, you will have to show proof of medical insurance. Just like you have to show 800,000 baht in the bank. That means, you will be forced to pay into an insurance scheme, or you don't get a visa, which means, whether you require insurance, or not, you will have to have it. Just another thing the Thai's will eventually do to make it even harder to live here and in the process, I'm sure they will turn it into a money spinner for themselves. Edited January 20, 2011 by NamKangMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 You are missing the point. They may bring in a law that if you want to live in Thailand, in order to get your visa, you will have to show proof of medical insurance. Just like you have to show 800,000 baht in the bank. That means, you will be forced to pay into an insurance scheme, or you don't get a visa, which means, whether you require insurance, or not, you will have to have it. Just another thing the Thai's will eventually do to make it even harder to live here and in the process, I'm sure they will turn it into a money spinner for themselves. You can't really blame the Thai authorities or any other country authority for this sort of health cover being required for tourists or retirees. Different for anyone here with a Work Permit, then they have to pay Social Security contributions which covers health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Just read another topic on this subject .. Worth a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felt 35 Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Different for anyone here with a Work Permit, then they have to pay Social Security contributions which covers health care. What does the Social security actually cover? My wife, Thai and working have naturally this, but I get the impression that it cover only the cheapest options either there is a necessary visit to the doctor or dentist! Does it cover a serious and expensive surgery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Different for anyone here with a Work Permit, then they have to pay Social Security contributions which covers health care. Does it cover a serious and expensive surgery? Yes, provided the treatment is given at the one of the accepted hospitals, like Vachira on phuket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 (edited) You are missing the point. They may bring in a law that if you want to live in Thailand, in order to get your visa, you will have to show proof of medical insurance. Just like you have to show 800,000 baht in the bank. That means, you will be forced to pay into an insurance scheme, or you don't get a visa, which means, whether you require insurance, or not, you will have to have it. Just another thing the Thai's will eventually do to make it even harder to live here and in the process, I'm sure they will turn it into a money spinner for themselves. You can't really blame the Thai authorities or any other country authority for this sort of health cover being required for tourists or retirees. Different for anyone here with a Work Permit, then they have to pay Social Security contributions which covers health care. Why can't they bring in a scheme where by farang who are on a retirement visa can pay the same Social Security contribution as those here on a work permit? This would be the "base cover" for not so wealthy farang and for the farang that are more well off, they can pay cash for the hospital and doctor of their choice. This should see no financial burden on the Thai medical system whislt still allowing everyone to reside here. Edited January 20, 2011 by NamKangMan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Why can't they bring in a scheme where by farang who are on a retirement visa can pay the same Social Security contribution as those here on a work permit? This would be the "base cover" for not so wealthy farang and for the farang that are more well off, they can pay cash for the hospital and doctor of their choice. This should see no financial burden on the Thai medical system. Not really practical, the contributions are based on a % of salary, and paid by the employee, and the employer, and matched by government. Social security payments also cover sickness pay, unemployment benefit, pension. Quite honestly it would cheaper (and much easier) for an individual to take out a Thai health insurance plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Plus the social security health cover is costing the government money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjclark1 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 You are missing the point. They may bring in a law that if you want to live in Thailand, in order to get your visa, you will have to show proof of medical insurance. Just like you have to show 800,000 baht in the bank. That means, you will be forced to pay into an insurance scheme, or you don't get a visa, which means, whether you require insurance, or not, you will have to have it. Just another thing the Thai's will eventually do to make it even harder to live here and in the process, I'm sure they will turn it into a money spinner for themselves. And you are also missing the point, I provide for my Thai lady, and pay for her kids education and university fees. If the Thai government want me to leave, what will happen to her, if her own government don't care, then neither will I. I will just move to Vietnam, etc. (on my own) and find a new family in a new country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why can't they bring in a scheme where by farang who are on a retirement visa can pay the same Social Security contribution as those here on a work permit? This would be the "base cover" for not so wealthy farang and for the farang that are more well off, they can pay cash for the hospital and doctor of their choice. This should see no financial burden on the Thai medical system. Not really practical, the contributions are based on a % of salary, and paid by the employee, and the employer, and matched by government. Social security payments also cover sickness pay, unemployment benefit, pension. Quite honestly it would cheaper (and much easier) for an individual to take out a Thai health insurance plan. Maybe, the contributions could be based on the 800,000 baht you have to have in your bank in order to get your annual retirement visa. If they make it law that a farang has to show "proof of medical insurance" upon renewing a retirement visa, many will be effected. Those over 70 years of age and those with pre-existing conditions will not be able to secure a policy. They only way to cover these people is some sort of Governemnt scheme that you can pay into. My guess is it will be attached to your retirement visa, as a payment. What they will charge is anyones guess. If they insist on farang being covered through a private company, I can see a lot of farang going back to tourist visas. Then, when they see they have a lot of older, or sick, farang in hospital, on tourist visas, and unable to pay, they will probably bring in a law that if you are over 50 and applying for a tourist visa, you have to show proof of medical insurance when applying for the visa. I have posted a similar comment on another forum. Whatever they decide, it will have to be some form of "base payment" and compulsory for all farang expats so the healthy subsidise the medical costs of those farang who can not afford to pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 You are missing the point. They may bring in a law that if you want to live in Thailand, in order to get your visa, you will have to show proof of medical insurance. Just like you have to show 800,000 baht in the bank. That means, you will be forced to pay into an insurance scheme, or you don't get a visa, which means, whether you require insurance, or not, you will have to have it. Just another thing the Thai's will eventually do to make it even harder to live here and in the process, I'm sure they will turn it into a money spinner for themselves. You can't really blame the Thai authorities or any other country authority for this sort of health cover being required for tourists or retirees. Different for anyone here with a Work Permit, then they have to pay Social Security contributions which covers health care. The retiree could also be given an option of keeping an extra million baht in a bankaccount during permit to stay, to cover medical if needed. As it is now, it is unfair for Thai society to cover medical care for expats unable to pay their medical bills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 What has 'farang' to do with this? We are talking about foreigners here, many Asian expats would be effected as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 What has 'farang' to do with this? We are talking about foreigners here, many Asian expats would be effected as well. Where did you find "farang"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 5 times in the post of another forum member, who is obviously thinking 'us versus them'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NamKangMan Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 5 times in the post of another forum member, who is obviously thinking 'us versus them'. There you go again, jumping to conclusions. Ok, I'll re-phrase. Change "farang" to "all foreign expats." Are you happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 5 times in the post of another forum member, who is obviously thinking 'us versus them'. There you go again, jumping to conclusions. Ok, I'll re-phrase. Change "farang" to "all foreign expats." Are you happy now? Yes, that makes a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riley76 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Above post has been edited as the forum rules do not allow to quote certain news sources. to all posters please note the rules for a retiree or married forgner, yes 800,000 but also 400,000 and income of 400,000 this was done by the goverment many years ago and yes one can buy a visa, anywhere 30,000 too many people are prepared to jump on a scare wagon for publicity dont belive !! check the rules, the 'politician' who is on about this should have done so. also the media source who must not be named and yes there is an overload on the govermant hospitals, and i personally have paid for Thai's who were refused treatment untill the rules were changed . and befor there is a post about insurance as well, read the thai imigration rules from bangkok, not some local succesfull politician or an unnameable media source and as a person who has over the years spent a lot of money to help the goverment hospital and the goverment HIV section as well as life and home I am a lot annoyed by this thread I dont take 20% as is the custom for politiceans, or donations. Remember the hippocratic oath riley 76 and legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felt 35 Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why can't they bring in a scheme where by farang who are on a retirement visa can pay the same Social Security contribution as those here on a work permit? This would be the "base cover" for not so wealthy farang and for the farang that are more well off, they can pay cash for the hospital and doctor of their choice. This should see no financial burden on the Thai medical system whislt still allowing everyone to reside here. I’m a bit on something like the above. Anyone on retirement visa contribute to the Social Security with 5,5 % of your monthly pension (income) starting at the minimum income requirement for retirement 65 K. Yes they will have to change some of the visa options included the multiple, marriage visa, etc, IMO an application for retirement visas should be done in the applicant’s home country where you have to prove that you have the pension or the savings to live off annually include the contribution to the Social security. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 Why can't they bring in a scheme where by farang who are on a retirement visa can pay the same Social Security contribution as those here on a work permit? This would be the "base cover" for not so wealthy farang and for the farang that are more well off, they can pay cash for the hospital and doctor of their choice. This should see no financial burden on the Thai medical system whislt still allowing everyone to reside here. I’m a bit on something like the above. Anyone on retirement visa contribute to the Social Security with 5,5 % of your monthly pension (income) starting at the minimum income requirement for retirement 65 K. Yes they will have to change some of the visa options included the multiple, marriage visa, etc, IMO an application for retirement visas should be done in the applicant’s home country where you have to prove that you have the pension or the savings to live off annually include the contribution to the Social security. The problem with things like this is that the premium will be very, very high. There is a reason Thai insurance companies don't insure, with some exceptions, people over 65 years: too bad a risk, just as foreigners on a retirement visa would be a very bad risk. Either uninsurable, or at extremely high premiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citizen33 Posted January 24, 2011 Share Posted January 24, 2011 (edited) Why can't they bring in a scheme where by farang who are on a retirement visa can pay the same Social Security contribution as those here on a work permit? This would be the "base cover" for not so wealthy farang and for the farang that are more well off, they can pay cash for the hospital and doctor of their choice. This should see no financial burden on the Thai medical system whislt still allowing everyone to reside here. Im a bit on something like the above. Anyone on retirement visa contribute to the Social Security with 5,5 % of your monthly pension (income) starting at the minimum income requirement for retirement 65 K. Yes they will have to change some of the visa options included the multiple, marriage visa, etc, IMO an application for retirement visas should be done in the applicants home country where you have to prove that you have the pension or the savings to live off annually include the contribution to the Social security. The problem with things like this is that the premium will be very, very high. There is a reason Thai insurance companies don't insure, with some exceptions, people over 65 years: too bad a risk, just as foreigners on a retirement visa would be a very bad risk. Either uninsurable, or at extremely high premiums. There is some truth in this. However, the public scheme would have the advantage that risk is pooled and the premiums could be based on what it costs to cover the core package for the insured population. With private insurance. there is an actuarial calculation of risk on an individual basis, and unfortunately a big percentage of people over 65 are not good risks. The private scheme also takes quite a lot out for profits/administration. The so-called loss ratio - the percentage of private insurance premiums actually spent on treatments - is lower in Thailand than in most other nations. Actually if you look at countries around the world that rely principally on private insurance, most have a separate public scheme for older people. In the United States it is Medicare. Without that, retirees are in a precarious position because of exclusions, refused claims and rising premiums. Edited January 24, 2011 by citizen33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barka Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 There is some truth in this. However, the public scheme would have the advantage that risk is pooled and the premiums could be based on what it costs to cover the core package for the insured population. With private insurance. there is an actuarial calculation of risk on an individual basis, and unfortunately a big percentage of people over 65 are not good risks. The private scheme also takes quite a lot out for profits/administration. The so-called loss ratio - the percentage of private insurance premiums actually spent on treatments - is lower in Thailand than in most other nations. Actually if you look at countries around the world that rely principally on private insurance, most have a separate public scheme for older people. In the United States it is Medicare. Without that, retirees are in a precarious position because of exclusions, refused claims and rising premiums. Lets not forget where we are....we are in THAILAND...WE HAVE NO.NATIONAL HEALTH SEVICES..Like UK or EUROPE..WE HAVE TO ABIDE BY THAI LAW....your insurance is your Problem and how you deal with it is your choice...blaming POLITICIANS and MEDIA is not the answer. there are plenty of booklets and websites providing information on all these subjects by the THAI GOVERNMENT..LOOK AT THEM... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felt 35 Posted January 25, 2011 Share Posted January 25, 2011 I believe the root problem is the hocus-pocus Visa system. Of course there is a way to a health scheme for retirees if there are will? But it would first be necessary with an overhaul of the visa system. Today you need basically only a flight ticket to come here. That has to change unless they want Thailand to be the crime hub (another hub) of the world. 800K or if they set it up to 1m as they soon will and then probably call it extra Health Insurance cover, the easiest for them, but no guaranty for that there are any money at all. Most people are living of that money and some even borrow them. How can that be a cover for Health issues? No, I believe in a specific obligatory set up Social Security cover for foreign retirees with a monthly contribution. 7 - 10% of minimum income requirement for retirement visa should be acceptable. Or obligatory health insurance for the young and healthy enough to get that, paid upfront when applying for the retirement visa. Retirees which want to spend 3 months here a year have to show proof of travel insurance for the whole period when applying for their tourist visa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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