Why Painting House Cost High?

[tangcoral]

I have been quoted by 3 painting companies to paint my house at a cost of 40-50K baht.

I have even asked around what others have paid and this figure seems about typical?

Is it?

Job Includes patching, sanding, priming and 2 coats of paint of interior, exterior wall and walled in concrete fence.

House is your typical 3bdrm 3 bath house of roughly 200sqm.

Something like this would cost roughly 60K-70Kbaht in the US ($2000-2500 USD)

Here in thailand its costing me 40K-50Kbaht

Considering if I went out and hired 4 laborers at 250 baht a day. That would be 1000baht a day,taking about 5-7 days to complete.

Cost would be about 5k-7k for labor. I will take account companies fees are applied to the professionals but the 40K quote seems high.

Either 40K-50K is absurd price or something I'm not understanding.

Anyone care to let me understand, thanks

[MrRed]

"Considering if I went out and hired 4 laborers at 250 baht a day. That would be 1000baht a day,taking about 5-7 days to complete.

Cost would be about 5k-7k for labor"

this is all you need to pay IMO

[Khun Jean]

And make sure you buy the paint yourself, otherwise the house will need a paint job very soon again.

Hire people, buy the best paint. Maybe around 20k together.

[rijb]

Shop around and buy all the materials yourself. Also, be aware that some painters will water down the paint because they believe that thinner paint is easier to apply and less work for them.

[GarryP]

Many of those paints are intended to be watered down. Often 3 or 4 parts paint to 1 part water. They are not cheating you, they are doing what they are supposed to. The only problem is if the proportions are screwed up. From personal experience, the painting wasn't the real problem, it was the wall preparation and proper taping.

A few years ago I had my townhome rental done. It took two days and I spent about 4-5 k in labor for 5 people including a semi-pro painter. Arranged it through the local nosey neighbour network.

Edited December 21, 2010 by GarryP

[rijb]

Many of those paints are intended to be watered down. Often 3 or 4 parts paint to 1 part water. They are not cheating you, they are doing what they are supposed to. The only problem is if the proportions are screwed up. From personal experience, the painting wasn't the real problem, it was the wall preparation and proper taping.

A few years ago I had my townhome rental done. It took two days and I spent about 4-5 k in labor for 5 people including a semi-pro painter. Arranged it through the local nosey neighbour network.

Adding water to good quality new paint is ridiculous!

[tangcoral]

Many of those paints are intended to be watered down. Often 3 or 4 parts paint to 1 part water. They are not cheating you, they are doing what they are supposed to. The only problem is if the proportions are screwed up. From personal experience, the painting wasn't the real problem, it was the wall preparation and proper taping.

A few years ago I had my townhome rental done. It took two days and I spent about 4-5 k in labor for 5 people including a semi-pro painter. Arranged it through the local nosey neighbour network.

So it sounds like a consensus that 40K is much to expensive?

They say the 40K includes all patchwork, sanding and "smooth over" kinda like patch that's painted on.

Yes I have purchased all the paint myself, paint store says I'm buying premium stuff, ICI Dulux weathershield Ultima, hopefully its worth the cost. I have also heard good things about Nippon and TOA premium versions.

Anyhow I didnt plan on mixing any water to the paint, but are you sure some water should be mixed?

What would happen if I painted straight out of the bucket as is, would it be too thick or cause other problems?

EDIT I saw rijb mention its ridicules to mix water with paint.

Edited December 21, 2010 by tangcoral

[rijb]

Many of those paints are intended to be watered down. Often 3 or 4 parts paint to 1 part water. They are not cheating you, they are doing what they are supposed to. The only problem is if the proportions are screwed up. From personal experience, the painting wasn't the real problem, it was the wall preparation and proper taping.

A few years ago I had my townhome rental done. It took two days and I spent about 4-5 k in labor for 5 people including a semi-pro painter. Arranged it through the local nosey neighbour network.

So it sounds like a consensus that 40K is much to expensive?

They say the 40K includes all patchwork, sanding and "smooth over" kinda like patch that's painted on.

Yes I have purchased all the paint myself, paint store says I'm buying premium stuff, ICI Dulux weathershield Ultima, hopefully its worth the cost. I have also heard good things about Nippon and TOA premium versions.

Anyhow I didnt plan on mixing any water to the paint, but are you sure some water should be mixed?

What would happen if I painted straight out of the bucket as is, would it be too thick or cause other problems?

EDIT I saw rijb mention its ridicules to mix water with paint.

Don't take my word for it... http://www.ehow.com/how_4796704_thin-latex-paint.html

[GarryP]

Many of those paints are intended to be watered down. Often 3 or 4 parts paint to 1 part water. They are not cheating you, they are doing what they are supposed to. The only problem is if the proportions are screwed up. From personal experience, the painting wasn't the real problem, it was the wall preparation and proper taping.

A few years ago I had my townhome rental done. It took two days and I spent about 4-5 k in labor for 5 people including a semi-pro painter. Arranged it through the local nosey neighbour network.

Adding water to good quality new paint is ridiculous!

Read the side of the containers, visit the paint manufacturers' websites, read the instructions. So Dulux is lying when it tells you to dilute their own paint? Perhaps they should hire you because they obviously don't know what they are doing.

Edited due to wickedly bad grammer. Now simply bad.

Edited December 21, 2010 by GarryP

[GarryP]

Obviously, I am not talking about oil based paints. Many good exterior emulsion type paints require dilution. Application without dilution is to be avoided in those cases. Simply follow the instructions. If no mention is made of dilution then don't, if it does say to do so then do.

Edited December 21, 2010 by GarryP

[tangcoral]

Obviously, I am not talking about oil based paints. Many good exterior emulsion type paints require dilution. Application without dilution is to be avoided in those cases. Simply follow the instructions. If no mention is made of dilution then don't, if it does say to do so then do.

Advice well taken.

[GarryP]

http://www.materialinfo.net/uploads/physical_pdf/aca4cb15dd9327cfd40eeee91ed6180a.pdf

Attached is the product info for Dulux Weathershield Ultima. On the second or third page the information is in English. Thinning if required is at the rate of 1 part water to 10 parts paint. Gives you all the required info.

Edited December 21, 2010 by GarryP

[rijb]

Many of those paints are intended to be watered down. Often 3 or 4 parts paint to 1 part water. They are not cheating you, they are doing what they are supposed to. The only problem is if the proportions are screwed up. From personal experience, the painting wasn't the real problem, it was the wall preparation and proper taping.

A few years ago I had my townhome rental done. It took two days and I spent about 4-5 k in labor for 5 people including a semi-pro painter. Arranged it through the local nosey neighbour network.

Adding water to good quality new paint is ridiculous!

Read the side of the containers, visit the paint manufacturers' websites, read the instructions. So Dulux is lying when it tells you to dilute their own paint? Perhaps they should hire you because they obviously don't know what they are doing.

Edited due to wickedly bad grammer. Now simply bad.

"Ready for use. Thinning is usually not required" http://www.icidulux.com.my/EN/products/maxilite_plus_interior_emulsion_paint_A919Line.html

[MrRed]

Many of those paints are intended to be watered down. Often 3 or 4 parts paint to 1 part water. They are not cheating you, they are doing what they are supposed to. The only problem is if the proportions are screwed up. From personal experience, the painting wasn't the real problem, it was the wall preparation and proper taping.

A few years ago I had my townhome rental done. It took two days and I spent about 4-5 k in labor for 5 people including a semi-pro painter. Arranged it through the local nosey neighbour network.

Adding water to good quality new paint is ridiculous!

Read the side of the containers, visit the paint manufacturers' websites, read the instructions. So Dulux is lying when it tells you to dilute their own paint? Perhaps they should hire you because they obviously don't know what they are doing.

Edited due to wickedly bad grammer. Now simply bad.

"Ready for use. Thinning is usually not required" http://www.icidulux....t_A919Line.html

A bit of advice if painting stone\block work i would seriously consider a primer first most of these higher end paints would also recommend that you do this, anti fungal and would make for a better application of the second coat\base coat then you could apply the top coat!

I would always give it two top coats which would be benefical and money saving in the long term as long as you keep on top of any weak spots.

1 Primer

2 Base coat

3 Top coat

4 finish coat

Do not cut corners and treat the workers to there end of the day beer.

Thinning is a difficult one depending on the type of paint used ie Acrylic based,oil based or water based and what surface you are painting,if you are painting a rough exterior than it would be wise to thin out the masonry paint so you can get it into every crevise i would say only do this on the base coat though 1 part water to 5 of paint stirring fully(normally white) then maybe a little water 1 part to 8 on the first top coat.

The finish coat should be neat.

Not forgetting if using oil based paint substitute water for white spirit or lao khao whichever is cheaper just kidding!

good luck and hope it turns out a good job,just to say i have never seen a thai painter hold a brush correctly painful to watch them paint sometimes.

[Pib]

Below is a partial quote from above link. I think it is representative/good example of how different paint manufacturers provide directions on how and when to thin/dilute paint...and how much you may be able to thin varies from product to product...some may say up to 10%...some may say up to 30%...some may say up to XX%...and I expect some may say do not thin, etc. It's OK-fine to thin/dilute paint "as long as you follow the dirctions on the container." The purpose of thinning is to ease the application and/or obtain a better soak-in to the material being painted. Now by thinning paint it will affect its longevity/color retention by a certain/small amount, but as long as not thinned beyond manufacturer directions, the affect will be minimal and really not noticeable over the life of the paint. Personally, I have found thinning paint by around 10% (if OK per directions) significantly eases the application in Thailand due to the sun/high temperature, it does not affect color to the naked eye, you get a little more square meters coverage, and save a few baht on the total paint required. But if the paint you buy goes on smoothly without any thinning, then by all means don't thin....it may give you a warm fuzzy that the paint will last a lot longer (but it won't just because you didn't thin). In closing, definitely don't over thin/dilute as you reach a point where it can significant degrade the paint. Read closely and follow the instructions on the paint container!

_________________________________________________________________________________________

THINNING

Brush or Roller: For sealing new or bare surfaces thin with up to 1 part of clean water to 3 parts of paint (30%).

For normal use, thinning should not exceed 1 part of clean water to 4 parts of paint (25%).

Conventional Spray: Add up to 1 part clean water to 2.5 parts of paint (40%).

Airless Spray: Ready for use. Thinning is usually not required.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Edited December 21, 2010 by Pib

[rijb]

MrRed and Pib: Your posts are informative and without condescension. I hope a certain previous poster is taking notes.

[bankruatsteve]

I have hired painting done and DIY. I much prefer DIY here in Thailand. I'm not saying there isn't but I have yet to see a local painter that gives a shit: very little if any prep, thinning it to the max (if the paint is part of the "project"), and not giving a crap about the drips/smears that whatever isn't part of the project may incure. So my suggest is to DIY.

Regarding thinniing: unless you need to stretch it a little for the coverage, why? I just bought TOA Supershield for the primer and while it says OK to thin up to 10%, I found it went on very nice with no thinning and the 5 gallon is probably more than enough for my coverage. Yeah - it's expensive almost 4K baht I think but it did a very nice base coat and probably didn't really need the 2nd coat of color but did it anyway.

[lopburi3]

Painting is very expensive here, and always has been. And they do not do that good a job and there is little clean up done. Can only suspect that they are using expensive material so expect a corresponding wage regardless of ability. If you are not using a primer I would thin to the max recommended for first coat to get it into the cement (not an issue on wallboard). Most cement here will be a high concentration of sand rather than cement so the paint going in will help waterproof it and help the surface adhere. I had one area so full of sand it took six coats of paint before the surface was covered. But it did stop the leaks.

[sezze]

Indeed , best thing is do it yourself . It is by far the cheapest solution . Nr 2 , is hire somebody and provide all the materials yourself . You'll be sure of the paint used but you might end up with some paint on places you might not expect ( or want ) . Part 3 is hire a person who provides everything at a fixed rate . Part 4 and by far the latest choice is the company . Companies probably will do a good job , if that is their company rating , but it comes at a premium price .

Doing it yourself , it might take longer but you are sure of paint used , of no dripping on floors , on right prep of underground etc etc .

On the dilution subject . All standard available paints ( for non pros ) do not need dilution and are ready for use . the post of Pib says it all . Read what is there ...

THINNING

Brush or Roller: For sealing new or bare surfaces thin with up to 1 part of clean water to 3 parts of paint (30%).

For normal use, thinning should not exceed 1 part of clean water to 4 parts of paint (25%).

Conventional Spray: Add up to 1 part clean water to 2.5 parts of paint (40%).

Airless Spray: Ready for use. Thinning is usually not required.

___________________________________________________________

( sorry i copy pasted it ) On new walls , thin up . By making it thinner , it will float more easily and will fill up all the small cracks , cavities , holes , etc which are normal on a new surface . It is not necessary , but it is easier to do so . the 2th line is important ...

For normal use blablabla SHOULD NOT EXCEED ... meaning if you want , you can do .

Spraying , dilution is needed because of the paint being too thick to go to the small nozzle . Airless spray , thinning not needed even on new walls because of the bigger nozzle and even on new surfaces , the small paintdrops go everywhere .

[Beardog]

Most of the decent -top end paints suggest up to 10% dilution. anything over that your shooting yourself in the foot to save a few coins. Since painting is usually a labor intensive chore & a pain in the ass you got to ask yourself is it worth it to skimp on something you obviously are going to look at for a long time (hopefully)I don't want to have to repaint till I am tired of looking at the same color or at least till the intended time of the paint is. As stated use 2 coats of primer -Contact primer the best & the easiest. The primer gets more bite into the concrete. If you don't prime all the areas(including THE TOP & BOTTOM that Thai's dislike taking detail to do) your reward will be many coats & your price for the job goes up. And your chances of lift are 10 fold as the paint gets older.

I would imagine the paint portion being somewhat expensive & the same in most countries would be the possibility or probability of rework having to be done.

And in reality if you really want a good job & you are a good DYI person if you do it yourself or at least do some to set the guidelines of what is acceptable & what is not....your better off. The contractor we used was as pro as anyone in the states. I helped & after a while I could see he was doing an ace job & got out of his way.The only portion we needed to redo was the molding around the window was very porous & the paint needed to be re sanded -resealed & repainted. We helped not only to set the standard but to

make it easier for thee contractor & show some tricks on how to save time & get it right.

I still can't believe how little paint he wasted & most of the paint was not diluted so we never needed to use the up to 10% clause & it looks spectacular & is holding up well!

[NewLookIPD]

"Buy the paint yourself" is good advice if you know how to plow through the myriad of qualities even within the same brand! TOA has at least 4, Jotun 3 - and so on. One of the reasons folks are happy to pay a premium is for the knowledge not only of technique (prep included) but also of local materials. Caveat Emptor!!!

[johnson36]

How much does ICI Dulux weathershield Ultima cost ?

Does it come in 5 litre and 10 litre tubs or can it be bought in larger 5 Gallon (25 litre containers) ?

Is this the best masonry paint or is there something else to consider ?

Can you buy sandtex masonry paint in Thailand ?

Edited December 26, 2010 by johnson36

[bankruatsteve]

How much does ICI Dulux weathershield Ultima cost ?

Does it come in 5 litre and 10 litre tubs or can it be bought in larger 5 Gallon (25 litre containers) ?

Is this the best masonry paint or is there something else to consider ?

Can you buy sandtex masonry paint in Thailand ?

From my experience (which is a lot lately), paint sold here in LOS at most places is in US gallons: 5, 2.5, and 1 being the "normal". Can't comment on the brand you ask about but I also think price=quality no matter what brand you buy.

[Benjie]

I don't really see why it should cost considerably less here than in the USA. In the US they will be able to complete the work 10 times as fast using the proper tools and methods for the job.

[johnson36]

How much does ICI Dulux weathershield Ultima cost ?

Does it come in 5 litre and 10 litre tubs or can it be bought in larger 5 Gallon (25 litre containers) ?

Is this the best masonry paint or is there something else to consider ?

Can you buy sandtex masonry paint in Thailand ?

From my experience (which is a lot lately), paint sold here in LOS at most places is in US gallons: 5, 2.5, and 1 being the "normal". Can't comment on the brand you ask about but I also think price=quality no matter what brand you buy.

What is the brand and cost of the paint you have been buying ?

[aussiebebe]

I don't really see why it should cost considerably less here than in the USA. In the US they will be able to complete the work 10 times as fast using the proper tools and methods for the job.

I agree, and think the quotes for 40-50k for 200m2 are reasonable as the labor time and therefore cost is higher than estimated by the OP. As the quotes were for sanding down and preparing the walls correctly using rudamentary tools and probably bamboo 'scaffolding' I'd estimate 15-20k for labor and say 40k would be good value.

[pipo1000]

^ For 20K you can hire 5 people for 2 weeks.Bit over the top for a 200 sqm painting I guess.

[Benjie]

5 Thais for 2 weeks sounds about right to paint a house that is 200 sqm in size.

[bankruatsteve]

How much does ICI Dulux weathershield Ultima cost ?

Does it come in 5 litre and 10 litre tubs or can it be bought in larger 5 Gallon (25 litre containers) ?

Is this the best masonry paint or is there something else to consider ?

Can you buy sandtex masonry paint in Thailand ?

From my experience (which is a lot lately), paint sold here in LOS at most places is in US gallons: 5, 2.5, and 1 being the "normal". Can't comment on the brand you ask about but I also think price=quality no matter what brand you buy.

What is the brand and cost of the paint you have been buying ?

The receipts always seem to dissappear - but, to wit: I used the TOA Supershield for primer - 5 gal for just under 4000 baht. At first I didn't cut it but then started adding 2 cups of water/gal and that seemed to make a better base coat on the cement plaster. For the color, we've been going with the TOA ExtraShield at about 900 baht / gal. So, the primer + 2 coats of the color is what I did and looks great. I will say that we put a LOT of elbow grease into the prep (scraping, brushing, and cleaning the plaster) b/c (and I think the pros would agree) no matter what quality the paint, if its applied to a dirty surface, it will start lifting almost immediately. Cheers.

[bankruatsteve]

Hi. I tried to edit my previous post earlier but then my internet crapped out...

Just wanted to add that I also use the TOA Acrylic Sealer for patching holes, cracks, etc. I really like that stuff: it's easy to apply and does a great job as a filler. The caveate is that, if you only do one coat of the primer (like I did) the filler can show through like with a smooth texture vs the normal plaster texter when the light is at a certain angle. Probably not a big deal but there it is. BTW: I'm not promoting TOA, I just find their high end products cost effective for the quality. Our ceiling guy used the TOA low end paint and well it's just not the same and just hoping I don't have to re-do any time soon although it's already starting to lift around the edges.