Fattening A Local Thai Steer

[jaideeguy]

Hey cowboys.......

I've always wondered if the local Thai [brahma?] could be kept in a pen and fed a better diet than grass and get a decent and tender meat with some 'marble' that you get on a good imported steak??

Anyone know?? and what the economics would be for that project?? corn @ 10thb/kilo....how many bags and how long in pen to fatten??

[slapout]

Brahma for beef is like Grey hound for house dog. They are not a breed bred for today's taste of beef. Tender beef is more a result of handling/aging after slaughter rather than the breed. Beef (eating beef) breeds are a result of the desire for larger so called prime cuts, as well as rapid weight gain. You could fatten a Brahma but the prime cuts will be smaller than beef cattle and by their nature, marbling would be less.

The economics would need documented feed vs rate of gain for the subject breed. When you compare beef slaughter cattle can reaching slaughter weight in as short as 15 months and look at the normal age of kill here of 2 plus years it would appear to be a bad investment.

Just my thoughts and observations for what its worth.

[jaideeguy]

Brahma for beef is like Grey hound for house dog. They are not a breed bred for today's taste of beef. Tender beef is more a result of handling/aging after slaughter rather than the breed. Beef (eating beef) breeds are a result of the desire for larger so called prime cuts, as well as rapid weight gain. You could fatten a Brahma but the prime cuts will be smaller than beef cattle and by their nature, marbling would be less.

The economics would need documented feed vs rate of gain for the subject breed. When you compare beef slaughter cattle can reaching slaughter weight in as short as 15 months and look at the normal age of kill here of 2 plus years it would appear to be a bad investment.

Just my thoughts and observations for what its worth.

Appreciate your thoughts Slapout......

what if you were to buy a 1 yr old grass fed steer, then pen it and fatten it up for [a couple??] months before kill time?? Or can good western cattle be bought here and raised successfully??

[farmerjo]

Slapouts right they dont hang and cure here.

Corn is not good for protien.

A friend in aus who had a station said rule of thumb was feed 10 kilo a day of 14 percent protien to gain a kilo a day.

You can get different mixed breeds here for beef but even with breeding brahams i found it was a never ending battle fighting ticks everyday.

As well as the selling market system within its self.

[grimleybob]

Brahma for beef is like Grey hound for house dog. They are not a breed bred for today's taste of beef. Tender beef is more a result of handling/aging after slaughter rather than the breed. Beef (eating beef) breeds are a result of the desire for larger so called prime cuts, as well as rapid weight gain. You could fatten a Brahma but the prime cuts will be smaller than beef cattle and by their nature, marbling would be less.

The economics would need documented feed vs rate of gain for the subject breed. When you compare beef slaughter cattle can reaching slaughter weight in as short as 15 months and look at the normal age of kill here of 2 plus years it would appear to be a bad investment.

Just my thoughts and observations for what its worth.

Appreciate your thoughts Slapout......

what if you were to buy a 1 yr old grass fed steer, then pen it and fatten it up for [a couple??] months before kill time?? Or can good western cattle be bought here and raised successfully??

Find your nearest government Cattle Research Station (D.L.D). They will sell you BrahmanXSimmental stock. I don't know price or any other details but I have read about it. I know there is one near Ubon. You can find out more info from Uni in Ubon. I think there is a connection.

[TPI]

Brahma for beef is like Grey hound for house dog. They are not a breed bred for today's taste of beef. Tender beef is more a result of handling/aging after slaughter rather than the breed. Beef (eating beef) breeds are a result of the desire for larger so called prime cuts, as well as rapid weight gain. You could fatten a Brahma but the prime cuts will be smaller than beef cattle and by their nature, marbling would be less.

The economics would need documented feed vs rate of gain for the subject breed. When you compare beef slaughter cattle can reaching slaughter weight in as short as 15 months and look at the normal age of kill here of 2 plus years it would appear to be a bad investment.

Just my thoughts and observations for what its worth.

Maybe he would be better off breeding bufalo? A lot less trouble and very tick resistant...better meat as well!

[jaideeguy]

Brahma for beef is like Grey hound for house dog. They are not a breed bred for today's taste of beef. Tender beef is more a result of handling/aging after slaughter rather than the breed. Beef (eating beef) breeds are a result of the desire for larger so called prime cuts, as well as rapid weight gain. You could fatten a Brahma but the prime cuts will be smaller than beef cattle and by their nature, marbling would be less.

The economics would need documented feed vs rate of gain for the subject breed. When you compare beef slaughter cattle can reaching slaughter weight in as short as 15 months and look at the normal age of kill here of 2 plus years it would appear to be a bad investment.

Just my thoughts and observations for what its worth.

Maybe he would be better off breeding bufalo? A lot less trouble and very tick resistant...better meat as well!

Have eaten bufalo [assuming you mean 'water bufalo'] and found it just as tough and gamey as local grass fed beef.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I suspect Slapout has the main suspects.

They don't seem to hang and cure beef in Thailand and the breeds have less prime cuts so the selection tends to be tougher parts of the cow.

A lot of so called grass fed beef does finish with enhanced feeds. Grass alone just doesn't provide much fat content. Grains like corn have sugar and sugar adds body fat.

True grass fed beef will have the fat content of a deer, elk, antelope. Healthy as can be with more minerals and vitamins. The little fat that is there is healthier Omega 3 types.

Higher fat content beef cooks better because it doesn't dry out as easy.

I have had some of the best steak ever from places like Uruguay and Argentina which are 'supposed' to be all grass so they must be aging properly or something I am missing.

[ericthai]

hey guys. you were saying that the protein in the grass is too low. What if you fed the cow not grass but leaves from another plant that has 25-30% protein will this make a difference? Reason I ask is that I had some leaves tested from a plant the we process and the protein content is close to 30%. I gave some to one of the local farmers for his cows and they liked it. He actually came back to me looks for more. So I baled up some more and went over to his place and when I walked up to the one it started to move away and then it smelled the leaf and moved in to get it, then the others came around, they ate this up quick and looked like they were looking for more. I already spoke to a company that is interested in buying for the animal feed company, sorry back to the point. So if I used this would that help produce a better meat? If you think there is a chance I will buy a calf maybe 5-6 months old and try this out.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

other things cow like to eat

potatoes

beets

turnips

beet waste from sugar processing

soybean meal or soybean wastes

candy and bakery wastes

Alfalfa

hay

seeds

citrus pulp

[slapout]

If you are going to try a local calf to feed out for slaughter, try to find a 400+ pound heifer that has just recently been weened. Heifers will have more internal fat than a steer but rate of gain may be a tad slower. I mentioned in a earlier topic that cattle are a herd animal and do better when they have like company. Local grass is watery with little food value so supplement feeding can include about any veggies you can find. Sprinkle liquid molasses on nearly anything and they will eat it. Change in offered feed can result in a 3 to 4 days where they just sniff it and pick at it but when they get hungry they will start the new feed offered.

Look for a cold locker to hang the beef after it butchered (cut in half) for 14 to 28 day depending on your preference.

[jaideeguy]

hey guys. you were saying that the protein in the grass is too low. What if you fed the cow not grass but leaves from another plant that has 25-30% protein will this make a difference? Reason I ask is that I had some leaves tested from a plant the we process and the protein content is close to 30%. I gave some to one of the local farmers for his cows and they liked it. He actually came back to me looks for more. So I baled up some more and went over to his place and when I walked up to the one it started to move away and then it smelled the leaf and moved in to get it, then the others came around, they ate this up quick and looked like they were looking for more. I already spoke to a company that is interested in buying for the animal feed company, sorry back to the point. So if I used this would that help produce a better meat? If you think there is a chance I will buy a calf maybe 5-6 months old and try this out.

Interesting, but a bit discouraging replies except for ericthai's 'magical plant'.....want to share with us....what the plant is??

also, TPI never confirmed if he meant water bufalo or american bison.

So the chalenges are the right breed of cow, feed and where to cure it.....then where to store it?? In the states, there are many cold storage companies that will freeze and store it by weight or volume. What might be available here??

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Definitely not American Bison. They are cold weather animals not remotely suited to these latitudes.

Might be interesting to study Brazils cattle industry. Similar climate and latitudes and they turn out great end products.

Slapout is right about molassas. Find a source of sugar processing waste and the mineral rich discard is great for mineral nutrition and making anything seem delicious to a cow.

I have been around cows and they will knock you over to get at some sugar beets.

That makes a lot of sense about the grass quality. Thailand's grass is perhaps not suited to compete with Argentina's or New Zealands green blades.

[jaideeguy]

here's something to 'chew' on.....copied from

http://www.naturalhub.com/grow_meat_breeds_cattle_small.htm

Those who are able to grow their own meat are in an enviable position. But when we come to kill a cattle beast for our own use, it would be useful to have a smaller animal so most of it can fit in the freezer. And the naturally smaller sized cuts fit in perfectly with todays smaller family size. If we are 'weekend farmers' on small holdings, we need to have easy care beasts. Small breeds of cattle have these traits, plus fast growth and naturally 'marbled' meat.

As cattle are selected for increased size and faster growth rate, their fertility rate drops, and the efficiency of conversion of grass into meat (kg meat per hectare) falls. It has been difficult to select for increased carcass yeild in catttle, as yeild is governed by many interacting traits. Small beef breeds have a reputation for efficient pasture conversion, better fertility, with more of the higher value meat cuts per hectare, as 'up to' two times the number small cattle as against normal breeds can be carried on the same area of land.

Miniature cattle breeds!!!......wonder if they could be found here in LOS??

[fruity]

here's something to 'chew' on.....copied from

http://www.naturalhub.com/grow_meat_breeds_cattle_small.htm

Those who are able to grow their own meat are in an enviable position. But when we come to kill a cattle beast for our own use, it would be useful to have a smaller animal so most of it can fit in the freezer. And the naturally smaller sized cuts fit in perfectly with todays smaller family size. If we are 'weekend farmers' on small holdings, we need to have easy care beasts. Small breeds of cattle have these traits, plus fast growth and naturally 'marbled' meat.

As cattle are selected for increased size and faster growth rate, their fertility rate drops, and the efficiency of conversion of grass into meat (kg meat per hectare) falls. It has been difficult to select for increased carcass yeild in catttle, as yeild is governed by many interacting traits. Small beef breeds have a reputation for efficient pasture conversion, better fertility, with more of the higher value meat cuts per hectare, as 'up to' two times the number small cattle as against normal breeds can be carried on the same area of land.

Miniature cattle breeds!!!......wonder if they could be found here in LOS??

Jaideeguy,

Beef 'marbling', like carcass quality varies from breed to breed. I very much doubt that irregardless of what you did either before or after slaughtering the beast there is anything that will put marbling in a local Brahman -bred type. Aberdeen Angus as an example are famous for the marbling.

In just about all species of livestock, smaller breeds will always grow faster & mature earlier than their larger cousins. A Chihuahua, for example is finished growing by 7 months of age, a StBernard isn't mature until around 2 years.

If you want to pile the weight on a newly weaned heifer, as said best to have at least two. Feed high protein 'creep' feed, designed for calves mix with 'white' ram & make sloppy by adding water; they'll love it & thrive on it. As much cut grass as they'll eat & even rice straw "fang" with watered down molasses on it is a good 'over-nighter. Simply, keep them eating! Make sure before you start that they are fully wormed!

Lots of the feedstuffs mentioned in this thread are simply unavailable in Thailand. If you can get access to corn stalks or cheap bananas, these are excellent too.

Fruity

Fruity

[teletiger]

First off, you'll be hard put to find a steer in Thailand. A steer being a de-nutted young bull.

Buy yourself a pair of weaned dairy calves. (Cattle won't prosper on their own) De-nut them, if you must. If you don't de-nut them, then don't keep them past 18 months as they can get aggressive. Most Provincal towns have a feed mill. 6 years ago the price was 6/7 Baht per kilo. The usual fattening rate is 6 kilos feed per kilo gained. Maybe the Aussie guy was talking Lbs.

For tender meat you will need the fat in the meat as well as the minimum 21 day hanging. The feed mill will tell you where to get the animals slaughtered. The slaughter-house will keep the head, hooves, hide and insides and charge you 200 Baht on top. (2004)

There is a refrigerated warehouse in Wang Noi, N. Rangsit, who rent out space. (Where Highway 1 meets the motorway into Bangkok) Good luck.

Happy Christmas/Xmas all round.

Regards

[oldsailor35]

I suspect Slapout has the main suspects.

They don't seem to hang and cure beef in Thailand and the breeds have less prime cuts so the selection tends to be tougher parts of the cow.

A lot of so called grass fed beef does finish with enhanced feeds. Grass alone just doesn't provide much fat content. Grains like corn have sugar and sugar adds body fat.

True grass fed beef will have the fat content of a deer, elk, antelope. Healthy as can be with more minerals and vitamins. The little fat that is there is healthier Omega 3 types.

Higher fat content beef cooks better because it doesn't dry out as easy.

I have had some of the best steak ever from places like Uruguay and Argentina which are 'supposed' to be all grass so they must be aging properly or something I am missing.

Except for the specially bred beef cattle,which are usually 'lot fed' in large pens, a large percentage of Australian cattle such as Braford are raised on hugh cattle stations eating only grass. These beasts produce some of the best meat in the world.

[oldsailor35]

hey guys. you were saying that the protein in the grass is too low. What if you fed the cow not grass but leaves from another plant that has 25-30% protein will this make a difference? Reason I ask is that I had some leaves tested from a plant the we process and the protein content is close to 30%. I gave some to one of the local farmers for his cows and they liked it. He actually came back to me looks for more. So I baled up some more and went over to his place and when I walked up to the one it started to move away and then it smelled the leaf and moved in to get it, then the others came around, they ate this up quick and looked like they were looking for more. I already spoke to a company that is interested in buying for the animal feed company, sorry back to the point. So if I used this would that help produce a better meat? If you think there is a chance I will buy a calf maybe 5-6 months old and try this out.

DREAMING methinks ! Have you never heard of Agricultural Scientists.

[WatersEdge]

EricThai,

Entering the discussion a little delayed.

Have alternate variety of feed available when you feed a calf on Kenaf leaf.

Two potential problems which I predict will be readily overcome.

A. 30% Protein is too high for cattle.

They need more fiber.

Judging Kenaf from it's next of kin Roselle and cousin Okra,

they both have fabulous forage, good for pigs and for ruminants,

but the leaf has marvelously low fiber.

An entire diet of Kenaf leaf then would not work.

Mind you, too much Protein is the problem to have...it's always easy to throw in some ground corn cob or rice straw.

B. I think I recall reading that there is a mild toxin in Kenaf leaf.

Something about a gossypol... gossypium....something or other,

because all these plants are also related to Cotton their other cousin

Note that cottonseed meal is a major feed commodity,

so that if the compound in question was a cow killer someone would have noticed.

Neither one is a show stopper

There are also minor toxins in other common tropical feeds.

Leucaena leucephala can't be fed as more than 30% of a cow's diet.

Cassava has HCN HydroCyanic Acid / Prussic Acid

Pigweed has Calcium Oxalate

Castor is supposedly outright toxic, and yet goats delight in it.

Key point here is....everything in moderation.

Keep in mind that 30% Protein feed with low fiber qualifies as fish food,

so think about a couple thousand catfish along with your half dozen calves.

One calf isn't worth much,

as cattle are social creatures who benefit from the vigor of friendly competition.

They aren't as socially dependent as goats or hogs,

one cow will live adequately,

but more than one animal together will gain much faster,

as they try to beat each other to the feed.

Edited December 26, 2010 by WatersEdge