Boss Did Not Pay Social Security

[Colabamumbai]

Have all the paperwork I think for extension of Non B with work permit, but boss did not pay social security. I started work in November this year. He is concerned that it may be a problem to get extension becase I am not listed on the document with the Thai employees to show that it was paid. Just spoke to my lawyer he says it may be ok based on the fact that you are under a three month trial basis at the job, but again he is not sure. He was sure that the boss cannot pay late, that payments must be made before the 15 of a month for the previous month, but cannot make up for back or missed payments. The question being if I am temporary for 3 months, will Immigration accept the documents without Social Security being paid for the last month November and this month, not over yet.? I was going to take the paperwork to immigration in Korat Monday December 27.

The initial 90 days I got in Laos expires February 1, 2011.

[TerryLH]

Are you confusing Soc Sec with taxes?

Not everyone is eligible or required to be in the SS system.

Immigration will want to see that you payed taxes, but I don't know why they'd be interested in SS.

[opalhort]

If you are a regular employee and not a director then your boss has to register you for SS but no problem to do so after probation period. He can pay all outstanding amounts for the first few months but will be "fined" at a rate of 1.5% interest per month.

Immigration should not be concerned about this if you are still under probation.

[Colabamumbai]

Are you confusing Soc Sec with taxes?

Not everyone is eligible or required to be in the SS system.

Immigration will want to see that you payed taxes, but I don't know why they'd be interested in SS.

No confusion. Because my earnings are so small for two months and there is a minimum earnings to pay taxes, my lawyer said not to worry about paying taxes this year as my earnings are below the required amount to pay tax, So Social Security is the question as far as I know?

Edited December 23, 2010 by Colabamumbai

[Colabamumbai]

If you are a regular employee and not a director then your boss has to register you for SS but no problem to do so after probation period. He can pay all outstanding amounts for the first few months but will be "fined" at a rate of 1.5% interest per month.

Immigration should not be concerned about this if you are still under probation.

Thanks for your positive reply. I post here because I know the lawyers don't always know it all. I am a regular employee.

[Colabamumbai]

If you are a regular employee and not a director then your boss has to register you for SS but no problem to do so after probation period. He can pay all outstanding amounts for the first few months but will be "fined" at a rate of 1.5% interest per month.

Immigration should not be concerned about this if you are still under probation.

Immigration does not really know when I started work correct??? Up to me to tell them.? Started a month after the WP was issued as the owner was away on business.

[opalhort]

Immigration does not really know when I started work correct??? Up to me to tell them.? Started a month after the WP was issued as the owner was away on business.

I can't answer that because I've never used income for extensions, but I guess that they want to see tax receipts. In your case, since you just started work, you won't have any yet. Just go to Immigration and see what they say.

[Colabamumbai]

Immigration does not really know when I started work correct??? Up to me to tell them.? Started a month after the WP was issued as the owner was away on business.

I can't answer that because I've never used income for extensions, but I guess that they want to see tax receipts. In your case, since you just started work, you won't have any yet. Just go to Immigration and see what they say.

Have one receipt for November....Appreciate your comments and will let you know the results.

[Tod Daniels]

Reading your previous post(s),

Man, if you didn't have bad luck, you'd have NO luck at all, huh?

[TerryLH]

I think you'll still need to file, even if you don't owe anything.

They'll give you a receipt showing '0' baht owed/paid.

For an extension, immigration will want to see that. The important thing for imm is not that you didn't pay anything, but that you filed.

No reason to not disclose your salary. It will keep you legit, and nobody will say anything about you not actually having to pay anything.

If you're talking about money earned this year, you don't have to file until the end of March 2011, but you might be asked for the monthly form that your employer files with the Revenue Dept.

It's an easy form (91?)to fill out. They have an English version online for you to print out. When you file, they'll probably want the Thai version of the form, but if you take the Eng one with you, the lines on both are the same.

It doesn't cost anything to file the form, unless you're paying a lawyer to file for you.

The Rev Off staff will help you fill it out.

[Colabamumbai]

Reading your previous post(s),

Man, if you didn't have bad luck, you'd have NO luck at all, huh?

Or as I say it Todd " I was at the airport when my ship came in"

[monty]

No reason to not disclose your salary. It will keep you legit, and nobody will say anything about you not actually having to pay anything.

Actuallt disclosing your salary s a requirement as you have to show you earn at least 50,000 Baht/month (for Europeans) to qualify fo the 1 year extension...

I don't think the social security payment for himself will be an issue, as long as he brings alng al the SS payments for the Thai employees, as that will be used to determine the Thai/foreigner ratio (minimum 4 to 1)

[moe666]

Reading your previous post(s),

Man, if you didn't have bad luck, you'd have NO luck at all, huh?

When I saw the headline and the poster, I thought what has he got himself into this time. Good luck on your extension.

[Colabamumbai]

No reason to not disclose your salary. It will keep you legit, and nobody will say anything about you not actually having to pay anything.

Actuallt disclosing your salary s a requirement as you have to show you earn at least 50,000 Baht/month (for Europeans) to qualify fo the 1 year extension...

I don't think the social security payment for himself will be an issue, as long as he brings alng al the SS payments for the Thai employees, as that will be used to determine the Thai/foreigner ratio (minimum 4 to 1)

Thanks now yes have all the info for the Thai employees 15 of them and I am the only foreigner. I have the pay receipt showing the 50,000 bhat per month, signed by the owner with the company stamp.

[Colabamumbai]

Reading your previous post(s),

Man, if you didn't have bad luck, you'd have NO luck at all, huh?

When I saw the headline and the poster, I thought what has he got himself into this time. Good luck on your extension.

Maybe off topic but since you follow, the ex wife, who demands money to sign divorce papers we purchased nothing together, I paid everything, is threatening to have a lawyer sue me for support after having her ex Thai husband throw me out after I paid her bank 56,000 Bhat, in back payments. I'm laughing now. Only in Thailand. Merry Christmas.

[Pnow]

Your boss will need to pay for at least 3 months SS. When he paid 3 months than the department for SS will issue you the Card.

[Colabamumbai]

Your boss will need to pay for at least 3 months SS. When he paid 3 months than the department for SS will issue you the Card.

Thanks I go to Immigration tomorrow for Extension. I have not been working 3 months yet. Just hoping that there will be no problems. I was also told not to worry about him not deducting tax as I am under the minimum needed to pay tax for 2010.

[transam]

Reading your previous post(s),

Man, if you didn't have bad luck, you'd have NO luck at all, huh?

When I saw the headline and the poster, I thought what has he got himself into this time. Good luck on your extension.

Maybe off topic but since you follow, the ex wife, who demands money to sign divorce papers we purchased nothing together, I paid everything, is threatening to have a lawyer sue me for support after having her ex Thai husband throw me out after I paid her bank 56,000 Bhat, in back payments. I'm laughing now. Only in Thailand. Merry Christmas.

Must confess those who read a lot here do remember stuff and you are know exception in my/our thoughts.

Good luck.

Soon a new year, so l hope good for you. T/A

[tombkk]

Your boss will need to pay for at least 3 months SS. When he paid 3 months than the department for SS will issue you the Card.

Thanks I go to Immigration tomorrow for Extension. I have not been working 3 months yet. Just hoping that there will be no problems. I was also told not to worry about him not deducting tax as I am under the minimum needed to pay tax for 2010.

Looking forward to your report how it worked out. As far as I know:

1. Once your work permit is issued, you work there. Hence, you receive salary and your company pays your taxes and SS from that.

2. I am really not sure whether they check on the SS payments, hence looking forward to your report. If the contributions had to be paid and the boss didn't he will be fined, not you.

[tombkk]

Your boss will need to pay for at least 3 months SS. When he paid 3 months than the department for SS will issue you the Card.

Thanks I go to Immigration tomorrow for Extension. I have not been working 3 months yet. Just hoping that there will be no problems. I was also told not to worry about him not deducting tax as I am under the minimum needed to pay tax for 2010.

Looking forward to your report how it worked out. As far as I know:

1. Once your work permit is issued, you work there. Hence, you receive salary and your company pays your taxes and SS from that.

2. I am really not sure whether they check on the SS payments, hence looking forward to your report. If the contributions had to be paid and the boss didn't he will be fined, not you.

PS: I thought you'd worked in Thailand before. so you don't need a new card with a new number, but the company has to declare that you work for them now. There is a form for this, to which they have to attach your previous card.

If you never had a SS card before, they have to apply for a new one for you. This will be issued pretty quickly, I don't think I waited for three months - but of course, in my case it is already many years ago.

[Colabamumbai]

Your boss will need to pay for at least 3 months SS. When he paid 3 months than the department for SS will issue you the Card.

Thanks I go to Immigration tomorrow for Extension. I have not been working 3 months yet. Just hoping that there will be no problems. I was also told not to worry about him not deducting tax as I am under the minimum needed to pay tax for 2010.

Looking forward to your report how it worked out. As far as I know:

1. Once your work permit is issued, you work there. Hence, you receive salary and your company pays your taxes and SS from that.

2. I am really not sure whether they check on the SS payments, hence looking forward to your report. If the contributions had to be paid and the boss didn't he will be fined, not you.

PS: I thought you'd worked in Thailand before. so you don't need a new card with a new number, but the company has to declare that you work for them now. There is a form for this, to which they have to attach your previous card.

If you never had a SS card before, they have to apply for a new one for you. This will be issued pretty quickly, I don't think I waited for three months - but of course, in my case it is already many years ago.

Never worked before Work Permit issued in October, Started work in November.

[digitalchromakey]

Never worked before Work Permit issued in October, Started work in November.

I see you are gopimg to immigration today, so this post is a little late.

Immigration will definitely want to see the PND 1 (ภ.ง.ด.1) Tax Return plus payment receipts for December showing your name plus the other Thai Employees' tax paid for November.

Normally immigration will want to see the Social Security Returns as well (ศ.ป.ศ.1-10).

Attached is my list for the paperwork required in Phuket:

[Colabamumbai]

Never worked before Work Permit issued in October, Started work in November.

I see you are gopimg to immigration today, so this post is a little late.

Immigration will definitely want to see the PND 1 (ภ.ง.ด.1) Tax Return plus payment receipts for December showing your name plus the other Thai Employees' tax paid for November.

Normally immigration will want to see the Social Security Returns as well (ศ.ป.ศ.1-10).

Attached is my list for the paperwork required in Phuket:

You are correct Immigration refused the extension and the woman would not tell me what papers were missing. I had her call the boss and she suggested that I have someone from the office come to Immigration. Not to helpful to say the least. When she saw that it was extension she first suggested that I talk to the lady beside her.

She said I saw you here before what was that all about, I told her a reentry permit. Not nice watching them take tea money from others.

[Colabamumbai]

Never worked before Work Permit issued in October, Started work in November.

I see you are gopimg to immigration today, so this post is a little late.

Immigration will definitely want to see the PND 1 (ภ.ง.ด.1) Tax Return plus payment receipts for December showing your name plus the other Thai Employees' tax paid for November.

Normally immigration will want to see the Social Security Returns as well (ศ.ป.ศ.1-10).

Attached is my list for the paperwork required in Phuket:

What I cannot understand is why Immigration does not tell you this when you get the Non B to start with, so that you can be prepared as opposed to just winging it. I should have got the original Non B in a country far from Thailand, others take note, this would save you a lot of hassle and you would receive the one year visa in one step.

[opalhort]

Since the officer aske you to bring somebody from the company along the next time it indicates that company documents were missing.

Example: if the company was established more than one year ago they should provide you with: ภ.ง.ด.50 and ภ.ง.ด.51 also ภ.ง.ด.1ก for the year 2552 may be needed as well as the VAT registration certificate if have. Not sure but they may also need the latest balance sheet showing the registered capital. The last three (Sep.-Nov.) ภ.ง.ด.1 would be required even if your name is only on the Nov. form but it should show your salary even if the tax amount entered is still zero. And of course all ภ.ง.ด. forms also have to have the relevant receipts.

Your rejection had nothing to do with the fact that you may have got your Non-Imm-B visa in a nearby country.

[Colabamumbai]

Since the officer aske you to bring somebody from the company along the next time it indicates that company documents were missing.

Example: if the company was established more than one year ago they should provide you with: ภ.ง.ด.50 and ภ.ง.ด.51 also ภ.ง.ด.1ก for the year 2552 may be needed as well as the VAT registration certificate if have. Not sure but they may also need the latest balance sheet showing the registered capital. The last three (Sep.-Nov.) ภ.ง.ด.1 would be required even if your name is only on the Nov. form but it should show your salary even if the tax amount entered is still zero. And of course all ภ.ง.ด. forms also have to have the relevant receipts.

Your rejection had nothing to do with the fact that you may have got your Non-Imm-B visa in a nearby country.

I understand that. The problem as stated before the missing documents were for Social Security registration and Tax registration and taxes not paid and Social Security not paid.

If I had obtained the initial visa lets say in KL, Canada, or almost anywhere else not neighboring Thailand, the visa would have been for the year, not 90 days. The immigration officer spoke to the boss on the phone, but I do not think that she even bothered to tell him what was missing. We know what is missing. There is infighting going on in his family. His wife and daughter in law do not want me there, this may be the real reason he did not register me.

[Colabamumbai]

Update here, Boss gives me pay envelope for November, on the 30th. He then asks me if I will accept 1,000 Bhat less off my salary?

Not wanting to be rude, I asked him, if he had asked his Thai employees if they would take a thousand Bhat less off their salary,? He said No. So I said NO and he took the thousand that was short from his wallet, after telling me he had no money.

I see that the Thai employees get all the holidays plus start holiday the day before and come back a day later when having 2 0r 3 days in a row off work.

With 5 employees and them all taking and extra 2 days off work, thats 10 days per month, in lost time, that the owner is paying staff in salaries. It is a private business. I try to teach him about business and saving money, he understands and does nothing.

But he won't hesitate to ask me to take 1,000. Bhat off my salary. I heard that his BMW costs him 40,000 bhat a month.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Colabamumbai