Plows

[old wanderer]

I know disc plows are less expensive than the moleboard plows, but why does nobody use a Chissle plow?

I did see one person near our property use a sub soiler before planting sugar cane, But see a lot of poor quality plowing jobs that only went 4" and then wonder why they have poor quality crops.

[slapout]

Moleboard plows were/are used primarily in the single crop/year areas (small grains), thus turning stubble back into the soil as well as noxious seeds. One would enhance the soil and the other would sprout (if it rained) and subsequently be killed via a chisel type implement. It has been determined that sub soiling did more harm than good in many areas and the moleboard has been replaced by sweep/chisel implements for low tillage, saving moisture for crop use, and greater acreage per hour of tractor use.

Plowed land is susceptible to erosion and packing with hard rain which we have a lot of here.

The root system of the crop to be planted, can determine the depth of the implement to prepare the seed bed, most of the crops here seem to be fairly shallow root systems. I have never seen a turning plow here but I have not looked either. Just some of my thoughts on the op's questions.

[IsaanAussie]

Well I have a turning plough and can get 8 inch depth if I get there before it dries too much. OK jump all over me, but my logic is simple, I want more than an inch of top soil and dont have twenty years to get that first inch. Our soil is lifeless with stacks of chemicals trapped in it. When I get some tilth in the "spoil" I will get rid of the plough, OK?

[WatersEdge]

Work the ground as the situation requires.

Does it need to be said that there are many variables

which make it impossible to offer simple blanket solutions?

All the same, there are blanket truths which apply.

There is good logic behind Low Till and No Till,

with the primary disadvantage being soil compaction.

The advantages are as slapout mentions,

the organic material left on the surface retains moisture and prevents erosion.

The other advantage is the eliminated cost of plowing.

The soil type has something to do with it.

At my parents' place in Nevada,

we don't mind a little sand compaction!

while on the tight alkali fields we'd like a ripper shank

Ripper shanks / Chisel plows require an enormous amount of power,

for little visible surface evidence...the work is hidden underground

They disturb, break and slightly lift the soil deeper than the plow can reach.

You only do it when it's needed,

because you will be a long time and a lot of money finishing the job.

A disk plow is used because it provides more action for less horsepower.

The rotating motion moves through the soil easier than a mold board,

and by the same reason, with less abrasion wear to the plow face.

Look around behind the big tractors....you will see no mold boards only disk plows

There is solid engineering behind that fact.

It is possible to flip the earth over with a disk plow.

My Dad has a five bottom 32 inch disk plow which turns 12 inches on its head

but it requires 150 hp pulling fast enough to launch the soil up and over.

When you hit that speed it's a beautiful sight to watch.

If a disk plow can't flip soil,

then it may be a design flaw in the angle of attack.

The angle needs to be low enough to get under the ground,

while a high angle design can only turn the material sideways.

Note the difference between a disk and a disk plow.

A disk is straight horizontal, with many blades rotating on the same axis,

meant to flip soil sideways.

A disk plow has individual disks at a less than horizontal angle

for a deeper cut with the weight of the soil actually pulling the blade deeper.

I should mention soil water profile with respect to deep plowing.

The plant can only grow with what it can reach,

and secondly what is there for it to reach.

If soil is not water saturated as soon as enough rain has fallen to make it possible,

then the farmer is stealing money from his own pocket.

With irrigation in dry season,

full yield potential is achieved only with the full root zone continually saturated.

Local practice is to wet the surface then wonder why dry season crop isn't as strong as rainy season.

Everything looks great but the plants continually look dry in the late afternoon.

That covers the first two points

1. Break the Soil so the root has an easy life

2. Get the Water down where the root wants to be

The directly related factor is the capacity of the soil body to store water.

Fine particle soils, the type that tend to be hard and compacted,

will hold more water than sand, so it pays to break them up.

But if they become tight again shortly after ripping, it gets expensive.

It is necessary then, to keep them permeable.

This is enhanced by the content of organic material in the soil.

Burn nothing, leave all plant matter to plow under,

even adding more from the outside as available.

We take a season break and grow green manure to plow entirely under.

Full water and fertilizer, then disk it under at its heaviest growth.

The following crop will more than make up for the "lost time"

It may be counterintuitive, but there is NO LOST TIME in enriching the soil.

It more than pays back, for multiple crops afterward

Farmers in the habit / custom of stripping the soil of what little it still has

are merely perpetuating their own poverty.

Gypsum CaSO4 is useful in retaining more water in the body of the soil

as it prevents clod compaction when dry

If you have seen sticky soaked sheet rock wall board waste,

then you know what happens in the soil.

Gypsum has a high affinity for water,

then will release it to the plant root as required.

Look for the cheapest local bulk source and apply liberally.

It will not effect soil pH, it actually serves as a pH buffer,

all the while a soil resource for both Calcium and Sulfur when the plant needs them.

The Gypsum does not need to be perfectly clean and pure.

In my area it is mixed with clay chips and even round stones,

but it's just as useful as the pretty stuff.

There's a simple and hopefully obvious important final point

Plow on the contour rather than aligned with the slope.

The plow direction can either prevent or enable erosion

When plowed on the contour, every little pocket / furrow is a small water catchment

When plowed the other direction, it becomes a tiny ravine.

It is possible extra equipment time and mental exertion for the tractor operator

to observe the contour, but he can either help you or hurt you all season,

for the way he drives for those few hours.

In general, if rainfall forms a tiny rivulet, it is lost

because that tiny rivulet will join with others, and soon you have a serious problem.

The key in soil moisture profile is to get the water deep into the soil,

at the place where it lands...straight down without delay.

[drtreelove]

Merry Christmas guys. Wow those are some great posts from generous and good hearted TV farming members and veteran farmers. Waters, we are blessed that you have time and the expertise to put together the great informational posts that you do, - above and beyond.

I don't have much to add to the spot-on observations and good points from the others. But when I arrived in India in 1970 to work in landscaping, erosion control and reforestation at the Auroville project, because of my early landscape and nursery tractor experience I was soon thrust into maintaining and operating agricultural tractors, plowing and cultivating for various farms and crops. I also was given the responsibility to train local village young men in tractor operations. So, knowing nothing I had to ecucate myself before I could train others. I started quizzing farmers and reading everything I could get my hands on about soils, tractors and ag engineering.

One of the first books I read was "Plowmans Folly" by Edward? Faulkner. It's a classic from the 1940's. Among other revelations, he explains how the mouldboard plow has some serious flaws in use and effects, including how this type of plow bottoms out at the same subsurface level every time and over the years creates a hardpan layer that impedes drainage and root penetration, etc., depending on the soil type. The dic plow is only slightly better. The chisel plow or scarifier can break that layer and allow drainage if done occasionally, but as pointed out it is an expensive operation in time and fuel costs, because it takes so much power to pull that deep dog. A disc harrow is much more economical and soil friendly for general incorporation of light crop residues, but also has it's drawbacks. Variety of operations is one way to approach it, use the implement that is needed for the job at hand and vary the operations so you don't plow at the same level every time. Use the least disruptive and cost effective method that is needed and I might add, watch your carbon footprint.

Masanobu Fukuoka in "One Straw Revolution" and other works has the complete alternative to plowing with no till natural farming. Check em out. don

[old wanderer]

Thank you all for your responces. It confirms what I learned 20 years ago farming a section in the Sierra Nevada area.

I am getting ready to return to Thailand, (with my wife). She has accumulated over 100 rai of land and wants to farm. So I guess I will be a farmer again. I do want to use what I know and I did have a 12' chissle plow that sucked almost 200 HP to pull it.

A lot of this land is heavy, and cracks wide when it drys out. I do have access to the government irrigation water, (but almost none of the locals use it), so plan on setting up a pump and water-reel irrigation system.

I think if I can put a cover crop of oats irrigat it and turn it back in he results will be very good. Th Ph is OK but it also needs some ntitorgen. Have not checked in Thailand if Urea is available? (70-0-0).

I am sure the 1st few years will loose money, but if we can get to where we break even, I'll be happy and the wife will think she is a genius because she will look at the gross.

Happy wife/happy husband.

[WatersEdge]

Urea is 46-0-0

Readily available for around B650-700 per 50 kg bag depending on seasonal fluctuation.

A respectable selection of fertilizers are available.

Limestone CaCO3 dust grit chips is readily available should you need to increase soil pH.

If you happen to farm Limestone soil, then use 21-0-0 Fertilizer Ammonium Sulfate.

The Sulfate will bring the pH down, as the Limestone pH 8.3 is too high for most crops.

I'd recommend solid set sprinkler irrigation with PVC pipe buried below the plow line.

The traveling gun system has

high friction loss in the long hose reel and

high pressure requirement for the long reach of the big gun.

I set my sprinklers on

20 meter sprinkler sets

10 meter sprinkler spacings

5 meter sprinkler offset on the adjacent set

Then run line pressure adequate for 12 meter water radius,

all of which provides consistent coverage.

There is a plastic body sprinkler made by Super Products,

RC-160 which you can buy for B95 at Global House.

It's not the finest sprinkler in the world,

but it's a fair value for the comparative cost of the imported brass body sprinklers.

Of course I could highly recommend going for the expensive ones,

can't possibly go wrong there if the money is abundant.

I use the cheapest grade of PVC pipe labeled 5.0 which is rated at 5 bar => 73 psi.

Above that there are grades 8.5 and 13.5 indicating their prospective bar rating.

This sprinkler system design for solid permanent set will cost B8,000 / rai

which converts to B50,000 / hectare.

If you want USD / acre => $675 / acre

It may cost a bit more if you buy an electric motor rather than a Kubota 14 hp diesel.

But you will soon recover the initial cost with electricity cost lower than diesel.

[old wanderer]

Very good information. Thanks.

I have not investigated what 3 phase power is available from the regular companies. If I was only running 25 HP then the 240v is fine. I have talked with some people in my area, and they have had problems with the local electricity loosing a phase, which causes the motor to burn out. If I cannot buy a simple protective circuit, I can design one to guard against this.

While I am used to and partial to the brass sprinkler nozzles, having the plastic one, gets rid of the midnight thieves scrounging scrap to sell.

[fredge45]

Rather than trying to find oat seed perhaps a far better green manure crop will be sunn hemp (paw teung)... legume well adapted for tropical growth... check some of the other postings here. I've been growing it for 3+ years now and it works wonders.

[Khonwan]

Hi old wanderer

Did you really mean 25hp on 240V? That’s nearly 200kW or 833A. Three-phase would obviously be much better.

You can buy a basic phase protector, magnetic contactor and overload thermal relay that would meet your needs in the case of three-phase “single-phasing” (dropping a phase) inexpensively from Global House. The most expensive item would be the phase protector, which costs only 1,600 baht if my poor memory serves me well – I bought one very recently.

[WatersEdge]

Hi Khonwan,

Your numbers are off,

If I may respectfully correct them.

25 hp is 18.66 kW

Which at 240 Volts draws 78 Amps

There may be occasion to calculate other applications,

so threw on an Excel sheet

No motor is perfect...

so the Efficiency Loss will increase the Amperage Line Draw

At 0.90 Efficiency it comes to 86 Amps

Electric Motor Calculator 20101227.xls

Edited December 27, 2010 by WatersEdge

[slapout]

25 hp electric motor which draws 85 +_ amps would overload the 3 phase meter which Egat set for normal use. If memory serves the normal meter is 50 amp rating. Just had one short out and it had to be replaced. That was a exercise in diplomacy when it came to getting it replaced.

[slapout]

25 hp electric motor which draws 85 +_ amps would overload the 3 phase meter which Egat set for normal use. If memory serves the normal meter is 50 amp rating. Just had one short out and it had to be replaced. That was a exercise in diplomacy when it came to getting it replaced.

[Khonwan]

Hi Khonwan,

Your numbers are off,

If I may respectfully correct them.

25 hp is 18.66 kW

Which at 240 Volts draws 78 Amps

There may be occasion to calculate other applications,

so threw on an Excel sheet

No motor is perfect...

so the Efficiency Loss will increase the Amperage Line Draw

At 0.90 Efficiency it comes to 86 Amps

Thanks for the correction - I mixed up my Watts and kilo-Watts!

[old wanderer]

Thanks for the input guys.

One of the things I used to use (until I got my center pivot) was hand lines. Are these available in Thailand?

I was looking at just trenching a 6" supply line down the center of my 40 rai field. If I went to hand lines, I could cut back on the motor size and still manage to keep everything well irrigated. (Saw a local add for 52 pieces of 4" X 20' and 3 pieces of 4' X 30' with sprinklers, for $1500 locally in the USA)

Talked to my sister-in-law tonight, seems like somebody spraying their sugar cane managed to kill about 60% of 5 rai of chili we had planted. I know some people do not play nice, but when I get over there, will make a point to talk with all the neighbors so we can cover things for a few day if necessary. If that does not work, then I will just buy the adjacent fields.

[WatersEdge]

Have not seen hand lines here,

would have used them myself if they were available.

They'd be a great improvement over what is common.

Even the thieves would love them.

Wade Rain appears to still be in business

http://www.waderain.com/sprinkler/handmove/default.htm