Cambodia To Charge Thai MP In Border Incident: PM

[webfact]

Cambodian court questions Thai lawmaker over border trespass case

Phnom Penh - A Thai parliamentarian and six other Thai nationals were questioned by a Cambodian court on Thursday after being arrested along the border for alleged trespassing.

Panich Vikitsreth of the ruling Democrat Party was arrested along with six others on Wednesday in Cambodia's Banteay Meanchey province, near the western part of the border with Thailand.

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen said late Wednesday that the case would proceed quickly, adding that he had rebuffed requests from Thai officials to intervene.

"I think Prime Minister Abhisit (Vejjajiva) will understand Cambodian legal procedure, which no one can abuse," Hun Sen said, adding that the group "will face legal punishment, because Thai lawmakers cannot use their parliamentary immunity in Cambodia."

A senior Cambodian official said the group was being held for "trespassing under immigration law."

"They intruded into Cambodia," the official said, requesting anonymity as he was not authorised to speak on the matter.

The court hearing on Thursday was closed to reporters, though it was attended by the Thai ambassador to Phnom Penh, Prasas Prasavinitchai.

-- The Nation 2010-12-30

[webfact]

Cambodia charges Thais over border incident: prosecutor

PHNOM PENH, December 30, 2010 (AFP) - A Cambodian court on Thursday charged seven Thais, including a politician, with illegally entering its territory, a prosecutor said, after they were detained near the countries' disputed border.

"The court has charged them with illegally crossing the border... and entering a military area with ill will," Sok Roeun, deputy prosecutor at Phnom Penh Municipal Court, told AFP by telephone.

The seven, including lawmaker Panich Vikitsreth of the ruling Democrat Party, appeared at a closed-door hearing at the court, a day after being detained by Cambodia.

The incident has rekindled diplomatic tensions between the neighbouring countries, which have a long-standing border dispute.

Thailand's Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday urged Cambodia to free the detainees.

"Cambodia must release all seven Thais immediately," he told reporters. "Cambodia should not take this case to court as it will further complicate the issue."

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen said Wednesday the Thais, who also include members of the royalist "Yellow Shirt" movement, would be charged and held in prison awaiting trial.

In an attempt to secure their release, the Thai foreign minister was due to travel to Cambodia to meet his counterpart Thursday.

The two countries have long been at odds over their border, which is not fully demarcated, partly because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-12-30

[dighambara]

HMMM

It seems obvious that Hun Sen wants his citizens to keep their eyes off of him.

This is such a strange issue, especially as the French took the disputed provinces from Siam, later guaranteed to return the disputed provinces to Thailand, then, in 1953, 'Officially' gave them to Cambodia...

Many of the countries of South East Asia are a botched up jub of western 'diplomacy'...

Only one country had any claim to much of the area, but the land was invaded by westerners and then arbitrarily divided into NEW countries; Malaya, Burma, Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia - Yunnan was given away to China...

What I see as strange is that Thailand is/was so calm about the theft and the results...

[SICHONSTEVE]

My guess is they were intentionally trying to force an incident. The Thai government now is in a tight spot. They wanted to simply ignore the border issue until after the election. Now they can't.

The Thai government can't simply accept Cambodia's right to arrest a Thai national in the disputed area. If they do, that would basically be an acknowledgment that Cambodia has sovereign rights to that region, and it isn't really disputed. So now Abhisit must respond in a way that says Thailand will not accept Cambodia's right to put these men on trial, as they committed no offense. Not sure what was really going on behind the scenes with Thailand and Cambodia, but it would seem this action was meant to derail something that was going the way some people didn't like.

My guess anyway. We'll see how it develops. I sure don't believe this was an accident, and I am quite certain the seven of them knew the consequences going in. They wanted this for whatever reason.

Spot on!!! I think your appraisal of the situation sums up the goings on and intentions of the MP and his side-kicks to create mischief, perfectly. I doubt that his boss will be too impressed with this provocative gesture though as it just 'muddies the water' a little when things were going so well for him!!!! No doubt they will come to some kind of agreement to settle this amicably without any side losing face but I bet Mr Vejjajiva is secretly hoping that he (the MP who had the bird-brained idea to attempt this little escapade) "enjoys" his time incarcerated (in the Phnom Penh Hilton)??? to concentrate his mind on other more important and pressing matters such as attending to the problems and concerns of his constituents who voted him into office in the belief that he was the person best placed to serve them, instead of attempting to pull off such futile and irrelevant stunts such as the one he has just carried out which has clearly served no purpose other than to make him look to he a bumbling "rebel without a cause"!!!

[Prapoj]

"Cambodia must release all seven Thais immediately," Thailand's Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva told reporters. "Cambodia should not take this case to court as it will further complicate the issue."

I love his gut. He could be arrested for interfering with justice? I don't know. Maybe he has no faith in Cambodia court of a fair trial?

[webfact]

THAI-KHMER BORDER DISPUTE

Cambodia charges Panich, six others

By The Nation

Veera

Democrat Party MP Panich Vikitsreth and six yellow-shirt activists were yesterday charged by a Cambodian court for illegally entering its territory even as Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva demanded their immediate release without conditions.

Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya was sent to Phnom Penh yesterday to negotiate with his Cambodian counterpart, Hor Namhong, for the release of the detainees.

Kasit said he respected Cambodia's judiciary but urged authorities in Phnom Penh to speed up the process and hoped they would be freed soon.

Kasit told Hor Namhong that the group did not intend to cross into Cambodian territory but did not know exactly where the boundary line was.

Hor Namhong said the group crossed from eastern Thailand's Sa Kaew province and walked about 500 metres into Cambodian territory.

"They will not be released until the normal court procedure is completed," he said after his meeting with Kasit.

Panich and his group, including yellow-shirt activist Veera Somkwamkid, were arrested in the disputed area near Sa Kaew's Ban Nong Chan village on Wednesday while inspecting the boundary.

Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen expressed his dissatisfaction over the group's action and ordered local authorities to take them to Phnom Penh for prosecution. They are being held in Prey Sar prison on the outskirts of the capital.

For some in the group, notably Veera, it was their second arrest at the same location. Veera and his group were briefly held by a Cambodian official after entering the disputed area in August.

Panich told The Nation via a telephone conversation shortly after his release that he believed his group was in the area under Thai sovereignty when eight or nine Cambodian soldiers took them into custody.

However, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said after a meeting with Abhisit and security concern agencies that Panich and his group might have gone as far as 400 metres into the Cambodian side.

Illegal crossing of the Cambodian boundary could result in an 18-month imprisonment. Cambodia released three Thai nationals on the same charge last week after a royal pardon to celebrate the 60th anniversary of diplomatic relations. The court ordered 18-month jail terms for illegal entry as they had mistakenly crossed the boundary while seeking forestry items in August.

Abhisit said Panich and his group should not be prosecuted for unintentional entry as the two countries had agreed earlier that unarmed civilians should not be tried for crossing the border.

The yellow-shirt People's Alliance for Democracy yesterday put pressure on the government to secure the release of its members and Panich.

-- The Nation 2010-12-31

[Prapoj]

"For some in the group, notably Veera, it was their second arrest at the same location. Veera and his group were briefly held by a Cambodian official after entering the disputed area in August." A repeated offender. I hope the court will up-hold justice in accordance to the law. Thai people will respect court decision regardless. It is a culture here in Thailand.

[geovalin]

In the today article of the Phnom Penh Post about this issue:

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2010123045791/National-news/thai-mp-faces-charges.html

In Preah Vihear province, two Cambodian villagers were arrested yesterday along the border by Thai soldiers, said Dy Phen, director of the border relations office in Banteay Meanchey.

“I have sent my forces to negotiate with the Thai side and have those two villagers released, because they were just scavenging in the forest and did not know where the border line was,” he said.

Every day, Cambodians are caught by Thai soldiers in the gray area and are sent to jail in Thailand. This is the normal process. Why should it be different when the trespassers are Thai (of course the jails will be Cambodian in this case)?

[Buchholz]

In the today article of the Phnom Penh Post about this issue:

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2010123045791/National-news/thai-mp-faces-charges.html

In Preah Vihear province, two Cambodian villagers were arrested yesterday along the border by Thai soldiers, said Dy Phen, director of the border relations office in Banteay Meanchey.

“I have sent my forces to negotiate with the Thai side and have those two villagers released, because they were just scavenging in the forest and did not know where the border line was,” he said.

Every day, Cambodians are caught by Thai soldiers in the gray area and are sent to jail in Thailand. This is the normal process. Why should it be different when the trespassers are Thai (of course the jails will be Cambodian in this case)?

How long are they kept in Thai jails before being returned to Cambodia?

It's interesting that in both articles concerning the Cambodians crossing into Thailand and the Thais crossing into Cambodia, the exact same thing was said:

Cambodians: did not know where the border line was

Thais: the group did not intend to cross into Cambodian territory but did not know exactly where the boundary line was

[Credo]

I see no reason why some MP who wants to make a name for himself shouldn't pay the consequences. Seems like he is quite arrogant. If he wants to make an official visit, then there are plenty of military around to assist them. The military on the border have relations with their counterparts on the other side who can assist in making sure of everyones safety.

Either these characters are very arrogant or not all the synaptic junctions are firing. A bit of pavlovian behavior modification might help them, but it may cause damage to the nation. That's not a good legacy for an MP.

[webfact]

Thai FM fails to free Thais detained in Cambodia

BANGKOK, Dec 31 -- Thai Minister of Foreign Affairs Kasit Piromya failed to achieve the release of a Thai Democrat MP and six other people detained by Cambodian authorities for alleged trespass on the territory of the neighbouring country.

Mr Kasit made an urgent visit to Phnom Penh for talks with his counterpart, Hor Namhong, on securing the release of the seven on Thursday afternoon and returned empty-handed in the evening.

The Thai foreign Minister said upon returning from Phnom Penh that he tried to tell his Cambodian counterpart that the seven had strayed into the Cambodian territory during inspection of the border areas after receiving a petition from Thai villagers along the border.

Mr Kasit admitted to Hor Namhong that the seven Thai unintentionally crossed into the Cambodian area for 1,200 metres.

However, he failed to secure the release of the seven Thais who were charged by the Phnom Penn Municipal Court with illegal entry and illegally entering a military base along the border, crimes carrying penalties of up to six months and one year, respectively.

The Phnom Penh Municipal Court decided to press ahead with charges against the Thais, and Foreign Minister Hor Namhong reportedly said after his meeting with Mr Kasit that he had said there would be "no release" of the Thais just yet.

"Let the court continue with the legal procedure as normal, the government cannot do anything," he said.

"We respect the judiciary of Cambodia. We have asked the government to complete the case as soon as possible as the charges were not severed crime,'' said Mr Kasit.

Reportedly having visited the seven Thais detained at Prey Sar prison on the outskirts of the Khmer capital, Mr Kasit vowed to give full assistance to them. Initially, the ministry has retained a lawyer for them.

Panich Vikitsreth of the ruling Democrat Party was arrested along with six others on Wednesday in Cambodia's Banteay Meanchey province, along the western border with Thailand.

The seven detained Thais, including Democrat Party member of parliament Panich Vikitsreth and members of the so-called 'Yellow Shirt' Peoples Alliance for Democracy (PAD) protest movement, were apprehended by Cambodian troops on Wednesday while they inspected the border areas near Cambodian Banteay Meanchey province, not far from the western part of the border with Thailand. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2010-12-31

[Prapoj]

Mr Kasit admitted to Hor Namhong that the seven Thai unintentionally crossed into the Cambodian area for 1,200 metres. Case close.

[Prapoj]

I see no reason why some MP who wants to make a name for himself shouldn't pay the consequences. Seems like he is quite arrogant. If he wants to make an official visit, then there are plenty of military around to assist them. The military on the border have relations with their counterparts on the other side who can assist in making sure of everyones safety.

Either these characters are very arrogant or not all the synaptic junctions are firing. A bit of pavlovian behavior modification might help them, but it may cause damage to the nation. That's not a good legacy for an MP.

+1.

[hammered]

Bunch of high profile dudes seized by Cambodian troops in disputed territory. Now let the chilish political games begin and the usual sidetaking on here too.

[geovalin]

In the today article of the Phnom Penh Post about this issue:

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/index.php/2010123045791/National-news/thai-mp-faces-charges.html

In Preah Vihear province, two Cambodian villagers were arrested yesterday along the border by Thai soldiers, said Dy Phen, director of the border relations office in Banteay Meanchey.

“I have sent my forces to negotiate with the Thai side and have those two villagers released, because they were just scavenging in the forest and did not know where the border line was,” he said.

Every day, Cambodians are caught by Thai soldiers in the gray area and are sent to jail in Thailand. This is the normal process. Why should it be different when the trespassers are Thai (of course the jails will be Cambodian in this case)?

How long are they kept in Thai jails before being returned to Cambodia?

It's interesting that in both articles concerning the Cambodians crossing into Thailand and the Thais crossing into Cambodia, the exact same thing was said:

Cambodians: did not know where the border line was

Thais: the group did not intend to cross into Cambodian territory but did not know exactly where the boundary line was

To reply to your first question:

Here is an article (one amongst dozens of similar stories), it's in French but I made a translation by Google. Not sure it's correct.

Arrêtés pour avoir passé illégalement la frontière, des villageois ont vu leur peine allégée par la cour d’appel.

La cour d’appel thaïlandaise s’est montrée clémente lundi 2 août en reconnaissant des circonstances atténuantes à seize Cambodgiens qui avaient passé clandestinement la frontière et coupé du bois sur le territoire du royaume voisin.

Quinze d’entre eux avaient été condamnés en première instance à neuf ans et trois mois de prison et un jeune homme de 18 ans avait écopé de six ans et deux mois de prison.

La Cour d’appel a décidé de réduire ces peines à respectivement six ans et deux mois et trois ans et deux mois d’emprisonnement, faute de preuves suffisantes.

Les villageois, originaires de Preah Vihear et d’Oddar Meanchey, avaient été arrêtés le 23 juillet 2009 par la police thaïlandaise.

Les diplomates et les représentants de la société civile qui sont intervenus dans cette affaire ont applaudi le verdict de la Cour d’appel, même s’ils estiment qu’il reste lourd pour des villageois qui cherchaient simplement à se nourrir.

Arrested for having illegally crossed the border, villagers have had their sentences lightened by the appellate court. The appellate court in Thailand has shown mild Monday, August 2 recognizing mitigating circumstances to sixteen Cambodians who had secretly crossed the border and cut wood in the territory of the kingdom neighbor.15 of them had been convicted at trial in nine years and three months in prison and a young man of 18 was sentenced to six years and two months prison.The Court Appeal decided to reduce these sentences respectively six years and two months and three years and two months in jail for lack of evidence sufficient.The villagers from Preah Vihear and Oddar Meanchey, were arrested July 23 2009 by the police Thai.The diplomats and representatives of civil society that have occurred in this case have applauded the verdict of the Court of Appeal, even if they feel there is much for the villagers who were merely trying to feed.

As Cambodian courts are more understanding than Thai ones, Veera would not stay 6 years in Cambodian jails.

To reply to your 2nd question.

You and me and all the Thais and all the Cambodians know that Veera knew exactly where he was (1200 m inside Cambodia as Kasit told), Thai police cars was after him because he was trespassing and he knew what he was doing, he hoped to be caught to make the new friendship between Th and Cam collapse.

The Hun Sen's mistake is to play Veera's game.

Since 5 years Cambodia is hostage of the yellow shirts (as Thailand as well).

Edited December 31, 2010 by geovalin

[Buchholz]

Suthep told reporters that Panich and his team appeared to enter about 200-300 metres into Cambodia.

Hor Namhong said the group crossed from eastern Thailand's Sa Kaew province and walked about 500 metres into Cambodian territory.

To reply to your 2nd question.

You and me and all the Thais and all the Cambodians know that Veera knew exactly where he was (1200 m inside Cambodia as Kasit told)

As you can see from the various news reports above, it sounds like no one knows exactly where they were, which is the point I was inferring in my post in that it seems there's not much in the way of a clearly defined boundary. If people on both sides are making the same mistake, then perhaps focusing on establishing an easily recognizable border might be a good priority.

Since 5 years Cambodia is hostage of the yellow shirts (as Thailand as well).

If one looks at Cambodia's own paper, there are issues that not only involve yellow, but Red as well.

The Red Shirt Bombers were the lead photo for its year in review:

2010: The year in pictures

Thai Red Shirt activist Varisareeya Boonsom awaits deportation to Thailand after her arrest in Siem Reap province in July. She and fellow activist Kobchai Boonplod fled to Cambodia following the bloody clashes between Red Shirts and Thai security forces in Bangkok in May.

The Phnom Penh Post - December 30, 2010

.

Edited December 31, 2010 by Buchholz

[Siam Simon]

Oh, give it a rest, John. The Thai politicians were there to stir things up and they succeeded.