Bangkok Tollway Tragedy: What Went Wrong?

[bulmercke]

According to one of the four passengers who survived: He was sitting in the second row of the van in the seat closest to the door (if you are familiar with the Thammasat vans, it is the seat that can be folded up so that the other passengers can move to their seats in the back). He said that the van driver was driving normal (not swerving and driving straight and even smiled to him when he entered the van). When the accident occured, he initially felt a crash into the back of the van. Then he remembers spinning and says that he thinks he fell out before the van crashed into the wall. He was lying on the tollway in pain and yelling for help and water. He remembers looking over and he saw a girl outside of a white car and using her cellphone (at the time, he didn't know that she was the girl that caused the accident) . She was on her phone while he was on the ground yelling in pain for water and help. She did not provide any assistance to the injured. He finally got help when rescue help came.

What you can't see from the camera is that the accident occurred approximately 100-150 meters from the Kasetsart exit.

Just about says it all. A shocking disregard for the welfare and plight of others.

[KhaoNiaw]

the problem for Thailand's ruling corrupt elite is the likes of Facebook. The yellows can control the media, but they can't control the internet .. although they do try.... so Thais are talking about this on Facebook and similar sites and questions are being asked. It would be nice if Aphisit was cornered right through the judicial process (same with the Mercedes bus stop moron).. but in this non functioning democracy, this seems unlikely.

I think you'll find that many of the people posting on that Facebook page are big 'yellows'. A lot of them were with the yellows at the beginning because they were demonstrating against Thaksin's corruption, and this situation potentially falls into the miscarriage of justice they were against then.

But you'll also find that some of the victims and those on the Facebook campaign are at least social equals of the girl driver.

It's rather bizarre how foreigners, who tend to see themselves as clued up and socially aware, cannot see beyond the utterly simplistic view of elite v poor / yellow v red / bad v good.

[MaxYakov]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

Or maybe it is an accurate statement.

Maybe or maybe not. Large portions of the van seem to be among the disintegrated or severely damaged so how would one tell?

Also, the question of 'Did the sedan show traces of hitting (or being hit by) the van?' seems to have gone begging.

[MaxYakov]

She will be charge for driving without a license. The penalty is 400 Baht fine. Case close. The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre, Dr Tawatchai Laosirihongthong, who led the investigation, told the Nation Channel's morning news programme yesterday that "The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan". Evident is FACT. Don't twit it. Plus, I DID NOT SAY IT, The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre DID.

And your point is ... ?

[MaxYakov]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

Or maybe it is an accurate statement.

Maybe or maybe not. Large portions of the van seem to be among the disintegrated or severely damaged so how would one tell?

Also, the question of 'Did the sedan show traces of hitting (or being hit by) the van?' seems to have gone begging.

You all seem to be quite thick. Let me explain it to you. The 16 year old girl is guilty as the camera shots show, as the survivers have explained, and as her own mother shows (she admitted she was speeding). And yes, she is 16 (that cant be hard to check by the police, eh?). No, it has nothing to do with red, green or yellow shirts. A rich stupid girl kills 8 people that are highly educated, and yes, she will possibly flee the country. No, possibly there will be no justice. In fact, her parents are responsible as they knew full well her daughter was driving without a license (for how long?, who knows). Her parents should be in jail, but hey! they are friends with the King! So may be not.

Yes, thickness seems to be rampant today. Let's just get a rope and hang her from the nearest pedestrian overpass since all the convicting speculation has been finalized with this post.

[groovyc]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

2 vehicles spinning out of control with no impact - black ice perhaps?

I think thi ssummarises all the anger at the incident and the perceived nature

of the course of justice. I didn't see any direct hang-them-high comments here,

even though many people have come to the rescue of the so called 16 year old driver.

It is not merely an outburst of public rage towards one high-so supposedly "Rama-1 dissendent"

driver that we see here. It is pure disgust at law enforcement (or more precisely, one's expectation of

its non-enforcement at the hands of the BIB and the elite etc etc, with money being involved.)

Our oxford boy is trying to portray a different picture....but how far would it go with too many

skeletons in his own closet, I wonder.

Edited December 31, 2010 by groovyc

[groovyc]

Yes, thickness seems to be rampant today. Let's just get a rope and hang her from the nearest pedestrian overpass since all the convicting speculation has been finalized with this post.

A little bit more responsible posting would be in order! Nobody has agked for capital punishment, and even if it is practised in Thailand now (is it?),

I am sure it would not be at pedestrian overpasses.

Do think twice before you post please.

[whybother]

http://www.facebook....142609679128323

This is how it happen, reported by a well known Thai media.

it doesn't fit with the video from the camera.

So you are saying that TPBS is lying?

Possible, as it used to belong to Thaksin. Remember the old name? ITV?

No. They are telling the truth ... 100%.

There were no other vehicles on the expressway when the accident happened.

[MaxYakov]

Yes, thickness seems to be rampant today. Let's just get a rope and hang her from the nearest pedestrian overpass since all the convicting speculation has been finalized with this post.

A little bit more responsible posting would be in order! Nobody has agked for capital punishment, and even if it is practised in Thailand now (is it?),

I am sure it would not be at pedestrian overpasses.

Do think twice before you post please.

As I stated, thickness seems to be rampant today so I apologize for my misjudgment and the resulting unforgivable, irresponsible reply.

What is it about obvious sarcasm and arguing in reductio ad absurdum that you do not seem to recognize or understand?

[MaxYakov]

http://www.facebook....142609679128323

This is how it happen, reported by a well known Thai media.

it doesn't fit with the video from the camera.

So you are saying that TPBS is lying?

Possible, as it used to belong to Thaksin. Remember the old name? ITV?

No. They are telling the truth ... 100%.

There were no other vehicles on the expressway when the accident happened.

Good one! And having the last two letters: BS, the TPBS acronym adds even more credence to their position.

[Rimmer]

A number of inflammatory posts and quoted replies have been removed from view, please keep the discussion civil

[Tanaka]

The 16 year old girl should have been arrested or detained on the spot for driving with out a license, and the person who let her drive should also be held responsible.

But that would have made them lose face.

[Thongkorn]

The 16 year old girl should have been arrested or detained on the spot for driving with out a license, and the person who let her drive should also be held responsible.

But that would have made them lose face.

This losing face crap is just an excuse,

[SPIKECM]

I hope you are not intending that comment for me. Like in some way that I have an "utterly simplistic view of elite v poor / yellow v red / bad v good". I think you'll find that to the contrary, if you look at a short post and then make some conclusions to a person's political perspective or persuasion, then that is a rather arrogant stand point.

It matters not that yellows primarily populate Facebook users. The point is, matters such as this cannot so easily be hidden from the mass of people in Thailand. Because of the internet, the State finds it increasingly difficult to control the thoughts of their citizens or subjects. My point was that this was a good thing. Actually my politics are somewhere to the left of Attila the Hun. Margaret Thatcher is to me a great British hero. However, in Thailand the deliberate control of the disparity of wealth is to me, quite nauseating. This doesn't make me Thaksin loving red. It is just an inescapable observation in Thailand.

The candid way that the hoi polloi in Thailand are taught form an early age never to think outside the box is challenged by the easy availability of information on the internet and that can only be a good thing for social justice in Thailand; something which is very lacking and indeed a hindrance to Thailand's social and economic development. Some stories now just won't go away, and that is now something that the corrupt Thai State cannot control. The new information age, unlike educational opportunities in Thailand, is open to all. The connection between Facebook (and the possibilities of the internet) and the hope of due justice being seen to be done in this tragic accident, is more pertinent than you seem to appreciate. It is not a matter of any "utterly simplistic view of elite v poor / yellow v red / bad v good". It is a matter of justice and the hope of increasing transparence to a very corrupt justice system.

the problem for Thailand's ruling corrupt elite is the likes of Facebook. The yellows can control the media, but they can't control the internet .. although they do try.... so Thais are talking about this on Facebook and similar sites and questions are being asked. It would be nice if Aphisit was cornered right through the judicial process (same with the Mercedes bus stop moron).. but in this non functioning democracy, this seems unlikely.

I think you'll find that many of the people posting on that Facebook page are big 'yellows'. A lot of them were with the yellows at the beginning because they were demonstrating against Thaksin's corruption, and this situation potentially falls into the miscarriage of justice they were against then.

But you'll also find that some of the victims and those on the Facebook campaign are at least social equals of the girl driver.

It's rather bizarre how foreigners, who tend to see themselves as clued up and socially aware, cannot see beyond the utterly simplistic view of elite v poor / yellow v red / bad v good.

Edited December 31, 2010 by SPIKECM

[Orac]

According to one of the four passengers who survived: He was sitting in the second row of the van in the seat closest to the door (if you are familiar with the Thammasat vans, it is the seat that can be folded up so that the other passengers can move to their seats in the back). He said that the van driver was driving normal (not swerving and driving straight and even smiled to him when he entered the van). When the accident occured, he initially felt a crash into the back of the van. Then he remembers spinning and says that he thinks he fell out before the van crashed into the wall. He was lying on the tollway in pain and yelling for help and water. He remembers looking over and he saw a girl outside of a white car and using her cellphone (at the time, he didn't know that she was the girl that caused the accident) . She was on her phone while he was on the ground yelling in pain for water and help. She did not provide any assistance to the injured. He finally got help when rescue help came.

What you can't see from the camera is that the accident occurred approximately 100-150 meters from the Kasetsart exit.

This account seems to contradict the statement from her mother which says she was trapped in the car and freed by rescuers???

[TheyCallmeScooter]

This account seems to contradict the statement from her mother which says she was trapped in the car and freed by rescuers???

It sure does, Orac.

He said that the van driver was driving normal (not swerving and driving straight and even smiled to him when he entered the van).

But then again, perhaps the accident was caused by the 16 year old girl's failure to smile at him? Seems that would be been a key clue to whether she was capable of "driving normal"; at least for him...

My point being, this guy doesn't really impress me as someone who is reliable or someone who is not unreliable and even an avid coin collector in his spare time.

[Prapoj]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

2 vehicles spinning out of control with no impact - black ice perhaps?

Who say "The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan"? The girl's mother?

[selftaopath]

This account seems to contradict the statement from her mother which says she was trapped in the car and freed by rescuers???

It sure does, Orac.

He said that the van driver was driving normal (not swerving and driving straight and even smiled to him when he entered the van).

But then again, perhaps the accident was caused by the 16 year old girl's failure to smile at him? Seems that would be been a key clue to whether she was capable of "driving normal"; at least for him...

My point being, this guy doesn't really impress me as someone who is reliable or someone who is not unreliable and even an avid coin collector in his spare time.

Come on folks. Do you still believe what comes out of the mouths of most Thai people? Do you believe what the govt says/prints/decrees etc???? GEEZE. It' only talk. And with the idea of not wanting to "look bad" or "make someone else look bad" i.e. face (bs) they say all kinds of things. Shoot, before coming to Land of Scams/Lack of Sanctions, I took everyone at his/her word. I don't do that here.

[neverdie]

He said that the van driver was driving normal (not swerving and driving straight and even smiled to him when he entered the van).

But then again, perhaps the accident was caused by the 16 year old girl's failure to smile at him? Seems that would be been a key clue to whether she was capable of "driving normal"; at least for him...

My point being, this guy doesn't really impress me as someone who is reliable or someone who is not unreliable and even an avid coin collector in his spare time.

Don't you mean because this witnesses version of the incident doesnt go with the desired outcome for your hidden agenda that it can't be relaibe. I mean what has he said or done that so extreme other than account for what was going on inside the van in the moments before the incident.

Yet you would prefer to take the versions as supplied by the offending driver, who has absolutely no reason to lie about anything

[Prapoj]

He said that the van driver was driving normal (not swerving and driving straight and even smiled to him when he entered the van).

But then again, perhaps the accident was caused by the 16 year old girl's failure to smile at him? Seems that would be been a key clue to whether she was capable of "driving normal"; at least for him...

My point being, this guy doesn't really impress me as someone who is reliable or someone who is not unreliable and even an avid coin collector in his spare time.

Don't you mean because this witnesses version of the incident doesnt go with the desired outcome for your hidden agenda that it can't be relaibe. I mean what has he said or done that so extreme other than account for what was going on inside the van in the moments before the incident.

Yet you would prefer to take the versions as supplied by the offending driver, who has absolutely no reason to lie about anything

The van driver is dead. Unless there is a video footage, no one can proof if she did smile or not. Let by gone be by gone. We cannot bring back the dead by uncovering the truth.

[neverdie]

The van driver is dead. Unless there is a video footage, no one can proof if she did smile or not. Let by gone be by gone. We cannot bring back the dead by uncovering the truth.

Sorry, <deleted> are you talking about?

I am talking about the version of the witness, who just happened to be a paying passenger inside the van at the time of the incident. I would say he rates fairly highly as a witness based on the fact he has nothing to gain or lose by distorting anything.

This has nothing to do with a smile & nothing about bringing back the dead.

The truth needs to be uncovered due to the severity of the situation, nothing more, nothing less.

I would like to see your attitude if one of your loved ones had been killed in this fashion.

Edited January 3, 2011 by neverdie

[Nisa]

To my knowledge there was no witness "in" the van "at the time' who said she was not swerving or anything about her smiling.

I thought this came from a poster here who claims to have taken this bus on other occasions. The only person in the van I have heard from to this point said he/she was asleep and awoke to an impact towards the rear of the van before it lost control.

But please correct me if I am wrong.

Edited January 3, 2011 by Nisa

[Prapoj]

The van driver is dead. Unless there is a video footage, no one can proof if she did smile or not. Let by gone be by gone. We cannot bring back the dead by uncovering the truth.

Sorry, <deleted> are you talking about?

I am talking about the version of the witness, who just happened to be a paying passenger inside the van at the time of the incident. I would say he rates fairly highly as a witness based on the fact he has nothing to gain or lose by distorting anything.

This has nothing to do with a smile & nothing about bringing back the dead.

The truth needs to be uncovered due to the severity of the situation, nothing more, nothing less.

I would like to see your attitude if one of your loved ones had been killed in this fashion.

The witness, who just happened to be a paying passenger inside the van at the time of the incident. He/she is expecting compensation in one form or another. Hence there IS a conflict of interest. He/she knew that he/she cannot squeeze any compensation of of a dead van driver, hence, quite possible, he/she will have to indicate that the other party (happen to be rich) is wrong, to mile as much compensation as possible. This is just my view, and may not be the view of majority. Please respect my view.

[thaibeachlovers]

What went wrong is the question?

It's not the event that ought to be scrutinized, but "the way" of Thailand. Few if any laws are enforced, and practically no police departments in any district can be classified as protecting and serving the citizens - similar to politicians and other power brokers here. It's (not the loss of life or living under these conditions) - the way of Thailand- is a JOKE folks, that's why so many are constantly smiling in Lack of Sanctions/ Land of Scams (LOS).

it all boils down to terrible driving standards in THAILAND.. wherever you are in this country its downright dangerous to drive...

its a sad fact of life that these situations occur on a daily basis...

it will never change, as this is how they live... and unfortunately they think its the same in the world..

these poor people died because of this...

It's also dangerous to be a pedestrian.

Nil or obstructed pavements forcing people to walk in the road with maniac speedfreaks barely missing one, plus nil or non functioning crossing lights forcing one to risk the traffic to cross the road.

I've also noticed that locals do not exercise commonsense when walking on the road, as few walk on the correct side.

[TheJalapenoKid]

She will be charge for driving without a license. The penalty is 400 Baht fine. Case close. The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre, Dr Tawatchai Laosirihongthong, who led the investigation, told the Nation Channel's morning news programme yesterday that "The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan". Evident is FACT. Don't twit it. Plus, I DID NOT SAY IT, The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre DID.

welcome back SamriT ... nice to see you still wear your blinkers

[Nisa]

According to one of the four passengers who survived: He was sitting in the second row of the van in the seat closest to the door (if you are familiar with the Thammasat vans, it is the seat that can be folded up so that the other passengers can move to their seats in the back). He said that the van driver was driving normal (not swerving and driving straight and even smiled to him when he entered the van). When the accident occured, he initially felt a crash into the back of the van. Then he remembers spinning and says that he thinks he fell out before the van crashed into the wall. He was lying on the tollway in pain and yelling for help and water. He remembers looking over and he saw a girl outside of a white car and using her cellphone (at the time, he didn't know that she was the girl that caused the accident) . She was on her phone while he was on the ground yelling in pain for water and help. She did not provide any assistance to the injured. He finally got help when rescue help came.

What you can't see from the camera is that the accident occurred approximately 100-150 meters from the Kasetsart exit.

Any link or source to this news report? The reports I have read (statements from girl herself) stated the girl was trapped in her car until rescue workers freed her.

I also read the report of the witness in the van who said he was sleeping prior to the incident and made no comment what-so-ever about the driver smiling and not swerving prior to the accident. I only read about the smiling and her driving from a poster here who claims to have used this same bus on a number of occasions.

If I missed these reports, please provide a link or source. Thanks!

[neverdie]

Please respect my view.

Ohhh don't worry, I respect its your view, but perhaps if you don't want people to make comments about what you are saying you should refrain from saying silly things such as, "We cannot bring back the dead by uncovering the truth".

Nobody is trying to bring back dead, but I would say for everyone involved in this matter, including the young girl in the civic, its utterly important that the truth is determined, wouldnt you agree?

Perhaps Nisa is right about this so called 'witness', I havent seen if he is one of the surviving injured or was he in fact someone else that had used the van on another occassion'??

[neverdie]

If I missed these reports, please provide a link or source. Thanks!

Perhaps you havent missed anything. I havent seen it either, except what was earlier suggested here.

Theres 5 survivors from the van, I recall also hearing one of them was asleep prior to the 'impact' however Im uncertain about what the others were saying. Surely they wernt all asleep?

[Nisa]

Am just curious about the logic, despite what the law states, that because the girl is automatically at fault in the accident because she didn't have a license. The logic as stated here is that she should not have been driving in violation of traffic laws (it would not be the case if farang driving on an expired visa since it is not traffic related.. as stated here) and if she wasn't driving the accident would not have happened.

If this were to be the case then shouldn't the van driver be equally responsible since she was not wearing a seatbelt and she should not have been driving without wearing one? And I have yet to hear it come out or being investigated to if she and/or the company and had the proper licenses to be legally transporting passengers.

Bottom line is at this point I tend to believe the girls statements that the accident wouldn't have happened or not have been as sever had she not have been speeding. I also put stock into the initial charges that supposedly will be levied against her are driving in reckless manner resulting in death and NOT driving unlicened resulting in death (is there such a thing .. I don't think so)

Another related point would be that I highly doubt it is two separate offences in terms of "driving underage" and driving without a valid license" There is a law that says you cannot get a license until a specific age and a separate law that covers driving without a license. It appears she is guilt of one and not the other and this is why we haven't heard her being charged with both..

[TheyCallmeScooter]

The van driver is dead. Unless there is a video footage, no one can proof if she did smile or not. Let by gone be by gone. We cannot bring back the dead by uncovering the truth.

If clearly intended, and I can't see how it couldn't be, this is a fantastic post. It's the humour I was vaguely wondering how to attempt to shoot for, but as you can see for yourself, something went horribly awry with my attempt.

Bravo Sir!

I cannot speak for the brilliant author of course neverdie, but I think there are some layers (note the plural) of excellence in the above.

The witness, who just happened to be a paying passenger inside the van at the time of the incident. He/she is expecting compensation in one form or another. Hence there IS a conflict of interest. He/she knew that he/she cannot squeeze any compensation of of a dead van driver, hence, quite possible, he/she will have to indicate that the other party (happen to be rich) is wrong, to mile as much compensation as possible. This is just my view, and may not be the view of majority. Please respect my view.

Those who command respect need not deign to request it Sir.