Bangkok Tollway Tragedy: What Went Wrong?

[webfact]

TOLLWAY TRAGEDY

What went wrong?

By Mayuree Sukyingchaorenwong

Wannapa Khaopa

The Nation

Investigation not conclusive as experts voice conflicting opinions about Monday

Things remained quite inconclusive as experts appeared to contradict one another yesterday over the Monday night smash-up on the elevated tollway section of Vibhavadi-Rangsit Highway, which killed eight people and injured six others.

The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre, Dr Tawatchai Laosirihongthong, who led the investigation, told the Nation Channel's morning news programme yesterday that he had some new information:

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

2. The sedan has red paint on its side, suggesting that a third vehicle was involved in the accident; and

3. The van's door remained closed because the latch was twisted, hence it could not have slid open, suggesting the passengers flew through the shattered windows.

Meanwhile Maj-General Panu Kerdlarppol, deputy Metropolitan Police chief responsible for traffic, said the catastrophe most likely stemmed from reckless driving, because security-camera footage showed the sedan tailing the van, and it obviously couldn't brake in time when it was in trouble.

He said the collision impact appeared to be small, but it forced the van to lose control and start spinning, which made the door slide open and fling some passengers out to their death. He said the sedan was travelling far too close to the van, despite vehicles being required by law to keep a distance from other vehicles so they can brake appropriately.

He said the sedan driver had no licence.

Sattrawut Ponboon of the Asian Institute of Technology's Thailand Accident Research Centre said it had not determined the cause of the accident and was collecting evidence. Initial security-camera footage shows that the accident took place when the sedan was behind the van, before it lost control and started spinning, hitting a concrete wall and an electricity pole, and with no seat belts or airbags, the passengers were flung out. Yet it cannot be concluded how the accident took place, he said.

Meanwhile, another road-accident researcher who investigated the scene as well as the vehicles, and asked not to be named, said there was no evidence suggesting that a third car had been involved. The researcher also said tyre traces showed that both vehicles started spinning and maybe hit each other, the wall or the pole several times before overturning. The van had seat belts on all its seats.

Also, the researcher said security footage showed the van travelling in the centre lane with the sedan tailing close behind before hitting it, causing both vehicles to start spinning and then overturning. The researcher said key evidence was in the camera footage and the testimony of the sedan driver - provided it was double-checked by the police. If the sedan driver's testimony is in line with security-camera footage and other evidence, then it will be known what really caused this horrific accident, the researcher said.

Wisarut Bholsithi, research assistant at the National Electronics and Computer Technology Centre, was one of the injured and is being treated at Vibhavadi Hospital. He suffered injuries on his head, forehead and legs and bad bruises and has trouble breathing.

The victim recounted that he was on his way home to Chaeng Wattana from his office in Pathum Thani's Rangsit district.

"I was asleep and then I heard a loud bang, before the van started spinning. I saw many of the seats empty as I struggled to get out of the wreckage. Then I saw some injured passengers on the road and realised why the seats were empty."

He said he borrowed a rescue worker's mobile phone to inform his mother of his whereabouts. "I will never be able to forget what happened."

Wisarut said he was feeling better and expected to spend New Year's Day at home. "After this near-death experience, I will make merit on January 1 and pray that the next year is a good one."

-- The Nation 2010-12-30

[selftaopath]

What went wrong is the question?

It's not the event that ought to be scrutinized, but "the way" of Thailand. Few if any laws are enforced, and practically no police departments in any district can be classified as protecting and serving the citizens - similar to politicians and other power brokers here. It's (not the loss of life or living under these conditions) - the way of Thailand- is a JOKE folks, that's why so many are constantly smiling in Lack of Sanctions/ Land of Scams (LOS).

[briannorthfield]

What went wrong is the question?

It's not the event that ought to be scrutinized, but "the way" of Thailand. Few if any laws are enforced, and practically no police departments in any district can be classified as protecting and serving the citizens - similar to politicians and other power brokers here. It's (not the loss of life or living under these conditions) - the way of Thailand- is a JOKE folks, that's why so many are constantly smiling in Lack of Sanctions/ Land of Scams (LOS).

it all boils down to terrible driving standards in THAILAND.. wherever you are in this country its downright dangerous to drive...

its a sad fact of life that these situations occur on a daily basis...

it will never change, as this is how they live... and unfortunately they think its the same in the world..

these poor people died because of this...

[BennyC]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

[OzMick]

A theory from an armchair expert:

Fact - someone gave the car keys to a 16-year-old, a criminal act.

Fact - the driver, with her adult sister as passenger decides to drive on the expressway

Fact - the car becomes very close to the rear of the van at expressway speed

Surmise - something distracts the driver (mobile phone rings?) as the van either ceases to accelerate or slows

Surmise - as the small gap between vehicles closes rapidly one or other sister attempts a radical steering manouver to avoid collision.

Fact - impact occurs and both vehicles begin to spin, with fatal consequences.

The rest is history, except of course the 3rd party red (car) herring, not seen on video. Where did the red paint come from? With a 16-year-old driving, its quite possible this is not her 1st accident.

[OzMick]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

2 vehicles spinning out of control with no impact - black ice perhaps?

[arkom]

The 16 year old girl should have been arrested or detained on the spot for driving with out a license, and the person who let her drive should also be held responsible.

[asiawatcher]

A vehicle in the wrong hands is a weapon thus culpable driving. Criminal act in my opinion and also the adults who allowed her to drive accessory to the fact. No - the 16 year old caused the accident by hitting the van, the van driver was probably going hell for leather as they do and like all Thai's they all know how to go fast - the big pedal on the right - but have no idea what to do in an emergency situation (turn in the direction of the slide). Thais are never taught 'how' to drive - they are 'told' how to use the road and the result is there for scrutiny. At what cost?

[webfact]

Don Mueang tollway tragedy: One more death tallied, ninth victim another Thammasat student /MCOT

[Payboy]

The sedan has red paint on its side, suggesting that a third vehicle was involved in the accident.

The mystery car in the Paris tunnel spin?

What went wrong?

How about bad parenting?

[Daewoo]

Asiawatcher -

On the other thread, a Thai student who often catches this minibus, and who is a friend of one of the victims stated that (I am paraphrasing), "the woman driver is a good, careful and courteous driver... not the type to drive eratically...

As I posted in the other thread, I have no problem with Pear and her family being held accountable to the extreme for unlicenced driving... but saying that her underage driving is the reason for the crash misses the point...

She was probably driving just like most every other driver in Thailand... too close, too fast, without due care... That is what she should be held accountable for, not simply being unlicenced... I dare say if she was a year older and had passed her test, everything else being the same, the crash would still have happened...

Making her lack of licence the reason for the crash just helps perpetuate the poor driving habits in Thailand... Drive as fast, as close, and carelessly as you like... just make sure you have a piece of paper in your wallet...

Cheers,

Daewoo

[tomyummer]

Lack of true policing of roads and highways by authorities have created a culture of mad max driving in this Thailand. Accountability and consequences are such a joke that it creates loopholes and escapes so much so that no one is intimidated by laws. A police daughter allowed to drive while under age? In Thailand it always takes a huge grizzly accident or event to make Thais open their eyes............for a minute.

[canuckamuck]

Asiawatcher -

On the other thread, a Thai student who often catches this minibus, and who is a friend of one of the victims stated that (I am paraphrasing), "the woman driver is a good, careful and courteous driver... not the type to drive eratically...

As I posted in the other thread, I have no problem with Pear and her family being held accountable to the extreme for unlicenced driving... but saying that her underage driving is the reason for the crash misses the point...

She was probably driving just like most every other driver in Thailand... too close, too fast, without due care... That is what she should be held accountable for, not simply being unlicenced... I dare say if she was a year older and had passed her test, everything else being the same, the crash would still have happened...

Making her lack of licence the reason for the crash just helps perpetuate the poor driving habits in Thailand... Drive as fast, as close, and carelessly as you like... just make sure you have a piece of paper in your wallet...

Cheers,

Daewoo

+1

[Thai at Heart]

Having read the article, apparently the only offence they know of so far is that the driver had no license.

I wonder who actually owned the car. Of course, no license, no insurance so I hope the family has to pay ALL of the bills and compensation privately. This is before they throw the book at this stupid teenager and give her whatever punishment it takes to knock some bloody responsibility into her.

To be perfectly honest, to see the authorities tying themselves in knots to save this girl from disgrace and punishment is pitiful. They have CCTV footage, they have witness testament. Now all of a sudden another car supposedly got involved?

As for what went wrong? Mummy and Daddy let me drive the car without a license. Proof if ever, that having money is no sign of intelligence what so ever.

[SamritT]

She will be charge for driving without a license. The penalty is 400 Baht fine. Case close. The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre, Dr Tawatchai Laosirihongthong, who led the investigation, told the Nation Channel's morning news programme yesterday that "The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan". Evident is FACT. Don't twit it. Plus, I DID NOT SAY IT, The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre DID.

[geriatrickid]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

Or maybe it is an accurate statement.

[OzMick]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

Or maybe it is an accurate statement.

I have previously given my thoughts on the scenario - pray tell what you think made two vehicles suddenly spin out of control? Magic evaporating oil perhaps?

[MikeyIdea]

What went wrong?

How about bad parenting?

+1

[Morch]

Asiawatcher -

On the other thread, a Thai student who often catches this minibus, and who is a friend of one of the victims stated that (I am paraphrasing), "the woman driver is a good, careful and courteous driver... not the type to drive eratically...

As I posted in the other thread, I have no problem with Pear and her family being held accountable to the extreme for unlicenced driving... but saying that her underage driving is the reason for the crash misses the point...

She was probably driving just like most every other driver in Thailand... too close, too fast, without due care... That is what she should be held accountable for, not simply being unlicenced... I dare say if she was a year older and had passed her test, everything else being the same, the crash would still have happened...

Making her lack of licence the reason for the crash just helps perpetuate the poor driving habits in Thailand... Drive as fast, as close, and carelessly as you like... just make sure you have a piece of paper in your wallet...

Cheers,

Daewoo

Wife used to go with these very same minibuses, says she would actually wait for that woman as she was "a more cautious driver". This of course could be a relative statement, but still...

[Nisa]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

Or maybe it is an accurate statement.

I have previously given my thoughts on the scenario - pray tell what you think made two vehicles suddenly spin out of control? Magic evaporating oil perhaps?

A van doesn't have the same center of gravity as a car and can easily flip over if the driver swerved hard at high speeds or braked hard while swerving. Swerving is usually done to avoid hitting a vehicle. It is not uncommon for the driver at fault in accidents not have actually hit another vehicle that also crashed.

[TAWP]

There was a recall some years ago with a minivan that was *very* prone to flipping over, including during the standard break-and-swerve test all cars must do to get their safety-rating in Europe.

[neverdie]

She will be charge for driving without a license. The penalty is 400 Baht fine. Case close. The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre, Dr Tawatchai Laosirihongthong, who led the investigation, told the Nation Channel's morning news programme yesterday that "The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan". Evident is FACT. Don't twit it. Plus, I DID NOT SAY IT, The director of the Traffic and Transport Development and Research Centre DID.

You keep posting the same information, over and over again. Have you read a full certified copy of what the Professor said? Or are you going off the snip bits in the papers/media?

Also, have you expanded your thoughts on the issue to take in other possibilities? What about if there was NO IMPACT between the vehicle, but the driver of the minivan was taking evasive action to try and avoid another vehicle which was being driven in a dangerous manner? AND in the process of taking that evasive action, actually loses control of her vehicle? This type of thing happens all around the world Samrit & IF THIS IS FACTUAL that the vehicles didnt collide in many places in the world the driver of the vehicle being driven dangerously or perhaps in breach of the regulations/laws may still have a case to answer (according to the law).

[chuang]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

In today Bangkok Post..it was said " my fater is a soldier "......i wonder is he a general..

[Nisa]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

In today Bangkok Post..it was said " my fater is a soldier "......i wonder is he a general..

He is a retired. I believe he was a lieutenant .. definitely not a general.

[OzMick]

1. The van showed no trace of being hit by the sedan;

Wonder how much money it took?

Or maybe it is an accurate statement.

I have previously given my thoughts on the scenario - pray tell what you think made two vehicles suddenly spin out of control? Magic evaporating oil perhaps?

A van doesn't have the same center of gravity as a car and can easily flip over if the driver swerved hard at high speeds or braked hard while swerving. Swerving is usually done to avoid hitting a vehicle. It is not uncommon for the driver at fault in accidents not have actually hit another vehicle that also crashed.

The problem is that the other vehicle was behind the van. No need for the van to swerve unless the Honda somehow managed to overtake the van, then do something to cause the van driver to try and avoid collision - but then why does the Honda spin out if there was no collision? And in that scenario, the law would place the blame on the overtaking vehicle.

[Nisa]

The problem is that the other vehicle was behind the van. No need for the van to swerve unless the Honda somehow managed to overtake the van, then do something to cause the van driver to try and avoid collision - but then why does the Honda spin out if there was no collision? And in that scenario, the law would place the blame on the overtaking vehicle.

I don't think it has been determined yet she was behind the van or over taking it. Looking at stills from the camera it appears the opposite "may" be true.

[Murf]

No License.

Underage driving.

At the scene of an accident. (probable cause)

Not arrested.

Something doesn't add up.

[Nisa]

No License.

Underage driving.

At the scene of an accident. (probable cause)

Not arrested.

Something doesn't add up.

Not the way the law works here or for that matter even in a place like the US where the minor would simply be turned over to the parents until the investigation was completed and even if charges were levied against her she would likely not be incarcerated at that point either. Even if it was an adult in the same situation here in Thailand I don't believe the driver would be in jail at this point.

[WaagaardSrTorkild]

The Thai made carframe is noting only tinn metal compare to export cars, Thailans should implement driving light in day time as a safety measure rest of modern the world drivers do

[gtm2k]

What went wrong is the question?

Drivers in bangkok have this habit of tailgating... i frequent the bangkok-chonburi highway and every time come across 5-6 drivers (at least), who tailgate for getting a pass. Pass / no pass, its a dangerous habit, leading to serious consequences, sadly 9 lives lost !

What went wrong is the question?

It's not the event that ought to be scrutinized, but "the way" of Thailand. Few if any laws are enforced, and practically no police departments in any district can be classified as protecting and serving the citizens - similar to politicians and other power brokers here. It's (not the loss of life or living under these conditions) - the way of Thailand- is a JOKE folks, that's why so many are constantly smiling in Lack of Sanctions/ Land of Scams (LOS).