Pai Canadian Murder - The Dilatory Truth

[Colabamumbai]

The least we can all do is boycott Pai.

[geriatrickid]

The del Pinto murder investigation was going nowhere fast until Andrew Drummond (with whom I have no connection) at grave personal risk got the Human Rights Commission and the DSI involved. Otherwise it would have been successfully passed off as an open and shut case justifiable homicide by a policeman on duty and surely would have been, if the victim had not been a foreigner. In the TV thread at the time there was a somewhat despicable campaign to support the accused as a nice, conscientious guy who acted under provocation and to whitewash the Pai police in general. Carly Reisig was outrageously represented as a slut who asked for it due to her alleged lack of compliance with the mores of Thai culture. Since the otherwise charming and hard working Sgt Uthai was arrested for battering his pregnant young wife to death and the Pai police commander has apparently been uncooperative with the Mae Hong Song court, it has become noticeably harder to find apologists for them, even amongst those with vested interests in Pai tourism. Sorry to raise this spectre but it still makes my blood boil today.

Is Uthai still on bail? If there was real justice, the judges that approved his bail would be convicted of manslaughter.

I hope that the del Pinto family finally get the justice they deserve. RIP Leo.

The fact that the accused in the case is implicated in another crime means nothing. That's what the law says. He has not yet been convicted of the first crime and it could easily be argued that the stress of the first event drove him over the edge and exacerbated a pre-existing problem with alcohol. The fact of the matter is that there was reasonable doubt in the first case whether you agree or not. Carly Resig made several claims which were shown to be exaggerated. Yes, Sgt. Uthai's story was shakey, but the victim witness statements were not convincing either. Go back over the old threads.

That doesn't mean that Sgt. Uthai might not be culpable of manslaughter in the Del Pinto case, but that's up to the judge(s) to decide based upon the evidence. Sgt. Uthai should have shown restraint with the use of his firearm, on that there is no argument. However, one doesn't get into an argument with a Thai that is drunk and armed. Being right doesn't keep one from being shot. The true guilty parties are the police commanders who were aware of Sgt Uthai's drinking and who did nothing.

[neverdie]

The least we can all do is boycott Pai.

why stop there, boycott thailand, that'll work, that'll show em

[Colabamumbai]

The least we can all do is boycott Pai.

why stop there, boycott thailand, that'll work, that'll show em

I live here so It is a little harder for me to boycott Thailand. But I agree with you if foreigners are thinking of coming here. That is a very good reason that they shouldn't.

[neverdie]

The least we can all do is boycott Pai.

why stop there, boycott thailand, that'll work, that'll show em

I live here so It is a little harder for me to boycott Thailand. But I agree with you if foreigners are thinking of coming here. That is a very good reason that they shouldn't.

Nonesense. I live here too. Pack up and leave, I mean, if you feel that strongly about it, then you'd just pack up and go.

[andrewdrummond]

The del Pinto murder investigation was going nowhere fast until Andrew Drummond (with whom I have no connection) at grave personal risk got the Human Rights Commission and the DSI involved. Otherwise it would have been successfully passed off as an open and shut case justifiable homicide by a policeman on duty and surely would have been, if the victim had not been a foreigner. In the TV thread at the time there was a somewhat despicable campaign to support the accused as a nice, conscientious guy who acted under provocation and to whitewash the Pai police in general. Carly Reisig was outrageously represented as a slut who asked for it due to her alleged lack of compliance with the mores of Thai culture. Since the otherwise charming and hard working Sgt Uthai was arrested for battering his pregnant young wife to death and the Pai police commander has apparently been uncooperative with the Mae Hong Song court, it has become noticeably harder to find apologists for them, even amongst those with vested interests in Pai tourism. Sorry to raise this spectre but it still makes my blood boil today.

Is Uthai still on bail? If there was real justice, the judges that approved his bail would be convicted of manslaughter.

I hope that the del Pinto family finally get the justice they deserve. RIP Leo.

The fact that the accused in the case is implicated in another crime means nothing. That's what the law says. He has not yet been convicted of the first crime and it could easily be argued that the stress of the first event drove him over the edge and exacerbated a pre-existing problem with alcohol. The fact of the matter is that there was reasonable doubt in the first case whether you agree or not. Carly Resig made several claims which were shown to be exaggerated. Yes, Sgt. Uthai's story was shakey, but the victim witness statements were not convincing either. Go back over the old threads.

That doesn't mean that Sgt. Uthai might not be culpable of manslaughter in the Del Pinto case, but that's up to the judge(s) to decide based upon the evidence. Sgt. Uthai should have shown restraint with the use of his firearm, on that there is no argument. However, one doesn't get into an argument with a Thai that is drunk and armed. Being right doesn't keep one from being shot. The true guilty parties are the police commanders who were aware of Sgt Uthai's drinking and who did nothing.

I rather think the evidence of the two independent witnesses and Dr.Pornthips evidence that Leo was shot while on the ground makes all the negative comments about Carly Reisig statements rather insignificant or did you not understand this point?

[kmj]

The least we can all do is boycott Pai.

why stop there, boycott thailand, that'll work, that'll show em

I live here so It is a little harder for me to boycott Thailand. But I agree with you if foreigners are thinking of coming here. That is a very good reason that they shouldn't.

Nonesense. I live here too. Pack up and leave, I mean, if you feel that strongly about it, then you'd just pack up and go.

Edited December 31, 2010 by kmj

[TAWP]

was caused by failure of the head of Pai Police to turn up for pre-trial hearings at Mae Hong Son Court.

Name and shame.

From Drummond's full story:

"A major obstacle to the progress of the proceedings has been the chief of Pai police himself, Police Colonel Sombat Panya, who immediately after the shootings, put out the story that Sergeant Uthai was acting in self-defence while being attacked by Del Pinto, and then proceeded to instruct witnesses as to what actually happened."

Yes, sorry, I wasn't clear enough:

As I advised earlier for a previous article, was that a full article with focus on a person in power that has failed to perform their actions is the best approach to gain traction here. I.e. a full article that names and shames the person, with a proper high-res profile picture and full outlining of their failings.

The individual is here named and shown, partially, but it is far below being a true name and shame posting. Which was what I sought. An article where the journalist call people around the individual and asks questions - no doubt raising a flag with the person in question as to something going on - and after publication other journalists and/or publications doing inquires too.

A minor naming in a blog far from Pai will not be enough to shame him...he will never know. And the shaming is with the intent that the person will understand that continued misbehavior or neglect will bring him unwanted attention, threatening his status and income, and therefor force him to adjust his actions. Much like a Sheriff in a small city in US is going to listen to his flock as he needs to be re-elected.

[Suradit]

The days of the untouchables as far as law is concerned was left behind in the 18^th Century. Discrimination against people now belongs to the third World

Not excusing what apparently has happened in Thailand (although since it was written up by Andrew Drummond I have some reservations), but if you really think that cases of corrupt police & politicians protecting others from prosecution for their obvious criminal behaviour is something that disappeared in the 18th century and now exists only in the third world, you are charmingly naive.

[rgs2001uk]

The days of the untouchables as far as law is concerned was left behind in the 18^th Century. Discrimination against people now belongs to the third World

Not excusing what apparently has happened in Thailand (although since it was written up by Andrew Drummond I have some reservations), but if you really think that cases of corrupt police & politicians protecting others from prosecution for their obvious criminal behaviour is something that disappeared in the 18th century and now exists only in the third world, you are charmingly naive.

Whatever happened to the policeman who chopped the girls arm off with a sword? Kanchanaburi if I remember.

Not much outrage amongst the locals, apparently she got what she deserved, she worked in a karaoke bar.

Amazing Thailand indeed.

[notime]

I have recently talked with a fairly prominent Thai who used to be in Police and Army some years ago. He candidly boasted to me that he killed 9 people. Apparently they were all "very bad people" so the police were instructed to "shoot them first before they shoot at you". They later covered these murders up by doing things like putting fired weapons in dead's men hands to be able to claim acting in self-defense. I didn't bother to ask if any of these was ever investigated or bothered my speaker as a Buddhist.

Thai Justice System :D HAHAHAHAHA

[brahmburgers]

I hadn't forgotten about this sad case, and some of the others:

Two Brits shot and killed by a cop in Kanchanaburi

The Thai lady had her arm lopped off with a machete on a hellish motorcycle ride, by a Thai cop.

Regarding those three cases and others, I wonder whether any of the cops were found guilty in a court, and if so, if they suffered the same penalties that you or I would suffer if we were caught doing such dastardly things. Some might say police (and others in position of authority) should suffer more dire consequences, as they're the ones paid and trained to protect us. It's a sick irony that Thaksin was trained as a policeman, yet he's a poster boy for causing untold harm and abuse to his fellow Thais.

[MILT]

I could not imagine the anguish and frustration. Pathetic excuse for a human. Killing people is not a problem for this guy. I pray that the families of the victims find justice.

Having your son murdered by this moronic, sorry excuse of a Policeman is horrific enough - subsequently having your parental soul tortured by a corrupt & dysfunctional legal system, for years, is simply in-excusable ! !

I wish these Albertans much strength and courage.

We; here in Thailand, weep with you, make no mistake about that !

May your son rest in peace.

Cheers,

Jaap

(Ex-Canadian)

[Johpa]

The least we can all do is boycott Pai.

Oh please, it is the same police force that is paid off and looks the other way so as to allow the unfettered smoking of certain organic substances that is the hallmark of life in Pai. It is the drug money that allows this local small town police force to pay off their superiors and thus to avoid prosecution.

And I am glad to see that someone in the field of journalism still uses Roget's work.

[maimeepom]

I hadn't forgotten about this sad case, and some of the others:

Two Brits shot and killed by a cop in Kanchanaburi

The Thai lady had her arm lopped off with a machete on a hellish motorcycle ride, by a Thai cop.

Regarding those three cases and others, I wonder whether any of the cops were found guilty in a court, and if so, if they suffered the same penalties that you or I would suffer if we were caught doing such dastardly things. Some might say police (and others in position of authority) should suffer more dire consequences, as they're the ones paid and trained to protect us. It's a sick irony that Thaksin was trained as a policeman, yet he's a poster boy for causing untold harm and abuse to his fellow Thais.

When I passed through Kanchanaburi earlier this year.

I heard a rumour, that the policeman found guilty of murdering the young British couple was out of prison.

Can anybody verify this?

[housepainter]

The Lonely Planet Guides guy is based in Pai and distorted the facts to protect his own and Pai's interests. Then there's the corrupt Chief of Police.

The best advice is never to visit the place. Make this story known as widely as possible.

The Ban#gkok Post did run two very similar 'holiday' features on Pai decalring it to be unspoilt and remote. I took my mother there as a result. The place was Pattaya without sea, steroids or sand, quite as many bars and fewer girls.

It was totally commercial and a thoroughly unpleasant time was had by all before we left the same day.

Since this murder the Bangkok Post has dropped its Pai publicity features.

Thailand is a sick puppy. A sick man commits murder, atempted murder then goes home to beat the wife - to death with a wooden stake. He is then protected by his superior. Actions like this were last seen in the concentration camps run by the Nazis.

Welcome to the land of Smiles. Socio-pathic smiles.

[dighambara]

The Prime Minister should be asking for that police chiefs resignation. Unfortunately, the PM has no control over the police or army.

He should demand his resignation in any case, or he isn't looking out for the welfare of the people. Oh I forgot - the government doesn't care about the people...

PLUS

"Justice still seems a long way away after a series of delays which might be regarded as almost machiavellian to people unfamiliar with the workings of the Thai justice system."

THERE IS NO THAI JUSTICE SYSTEM

If there was a 'Thai Justice System' (HAHA), the police officer would not have had the opportunity to kill his wife

[jayjay0]

It happens all the time in Thailand the cops protect their own even Taksin.

All to true. Back in North America it is called the blue wall in many places.

they do such a good job of covering up that people don't realize it is there. Granted not in cases this severe.

The Average tourist is shocked to see it here because it is so well covered up back home he never even thinks about it. It would be well for a person traveling to be aware of the possibility no matter where they are.

This is clearly a case of a blatent in your face attempt to cover up. The police man and his superintendent should both be hung. Just to keep the mod's happy I will say by the neck while I have in mind a better idea. Three or four events like that and the police will start looking a little harder at what they are covering up.

For my money if the Canadian state department or what ever department did not stay in constant contact the case would disappear. Well done Canada.

[TheLaughingMan]

The del Pinto murder investigation was going nowhere fast until Andrew Drummond (with whom I have no connection) at grave personal risk got the Human Rights Commission and the DSI involved. Otherwise it would have been successfully passed off as an open and shut case justifiable homicide by a policeman on duty and surely would have been, if the victim had not been a foreigner. In the TV thread at the time there was a somewhat despicable campaign to support the accused as a nice, conscientious guy who acted under provocation and to whitewash the Pai police in general. Carly Reisig was outrageously represented as a slut who asked for it due to her alleged lack of compliance with the mores of Thai culture. Since the otherwise charming and hard working Sgt Uthai was arrested for battering his pregnant young wife to death and the Pai police commander has apparently been uncooperative with the Mae Hong Song court, it has become noticeably harder to find apologists for them, even amongst those with vested interests in Pai tourism. Sorry to raise this spectre but it still makes my blood boil today.

Is Uthai still on bail? If there was real justice, the judges that approved his bail would be convicted of manslaughter.

I hope that the del Pinto family finally get the justice they deserve. RIP Leo.

The fact that the accused in the case is implicated in another crime means nothing. That's what the law says. He has not yet been convicted of the first crime and it could easily be argued that the stress of the first event drove him over the edge and exacerbated a pre-existing problem with alcohol. The fact of the matter is that there was reasonable doubt in the first case whether you agree or not. Carly Resig made several claims which were shown to be exaggerated. Yes, Sgt. Uthai's story was shakey, but the victim witness statements were not convincing either. Go back over the old threads.

That doesn't mean that Sgt. Uthai might not be culpable of manslaughter in the Del Pinto case, but that's up to the judge(s) to decide based upon the evidence. Sgt. Uthai should have shown restraint with the use of his firearm, on that there is no argument. However, one doesn't get into an argument with a Thai that is drunk and armed. Being right doesn't keep one from being shot. The true guilty parties are the police commanders who were aware of Sgt Uthai's drinking and who did nothing.

I rather think the evidence of the two independent witnesses and Dr.Pornthips evidence that Leo was shot while on the ground makes all the negative comments about Carly Reisig statements rather insignificant or did you not understand this point?

Oh my god Geriatric Kid is still supporting this bullshit?! Besides the fact that your knowledge of the case is completely lacking, where on earth do you think you are that you make outrageous statements like "but that's up to the judge(s) to decide based upon the evidence"..... you honestly believe that judges make decisions here based on righteous philosophies like truth and evidence? TIT! I dated a lawyer who was getting prepped for the judges seat, in the end she could not continue on her career path as her scruples wouldn't allow her to take a position where she would be forced to break the law and take corruption money, if she didn't follow the game plan her life would be at risk! this is common knowledge to Thais, but we still have foreigners bleating ridiculous ideology like it actually means something here.

Unfortunately good law abiding upstanding honest Thais like my ex girlfriend are NOT taking these positions of power in Thailand because it is impossible to live righteously in those positions, the country will not allow you to. So who takes all the positions of power in the country? Thats right.......

[diehard60]

It happens all the time in Thailand the cops protect their own even Taksin.

YES!!!!! You are right ----- even the YELLOW SHIRTS. Did I spell shirts right this time? or is it shi_s?

Oh well what ever. You belong in the same class as them anyway.

[c64]

The least we can all do is boycott Pai.

why stop there, boycott thailand, that'll work, that'll show em

Yessir

Already done that. LOS is rotten to the core.

I expect it to blow up in the near future.

[Ulysses G.]

The Lonely Planet Guides guy is based in Pai and distorted the facts to protect his own and Pai's interests.

The "Lonely Planet Guy" has not lived in Pai or written any guidebooks for LP for many years. He has a pretty successful band and writes articles for magazines. I really doubt if he has purposely distorted the truth in print for any reason.

By the way, comparing Pai to Pattaya is ridiculous. They have nothing at all in common and play-for-pay is almost unknown in Pai. Are you sure that you have even been there?

Edited January 1, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[siamjimi]

Thai Justice System = Oxymoron

DITTO !!!!!!!!!!!

[geriatrickid]

I rather think the evidence of the two independent witnesses and Dr.Pornthips evidence that Leo was shot while on the ground makes all the negative comments about Carly Reisig statements rather insignificant or did you not understand this point?

Mr. Drummond, you can think what you want, but the law is the law. The chorus in TVF is that the law must prevail and that if this was in the west there would have been swift justice. Wrong. Dr. Pornthip cannot be considered a reliable expert. Her conduct in the bomb detector fiasco is responsible for that. If one wanted to apply western rules, then every case that Dr. Pornthip opined upon could now be contested and questioned. (I have been consistent in that opinion ever since the bomb detector crisis arose and made the statement at the time that every opinion Dr. Pornthip ever gave could be invalidated. That's how it works in pathology and the law.) One need look no further than Mr. Del Pinto's home country of Canada to see what happens when a pathologist bungles. Look up the pathologist Dr. Charles Smith and see what impact it had on the court system. One can therefore not rely on evidence that comes from a source that can be considered flawed.

Describing Carly Reisig's statements as insignificant, is a cute and convenient way of dismissing the fact that much of the information she provided was inaccurate and misleading. When a witness provides evidence like that, the witness testimony is dismissed in its whole, even if there are some valid aspects. Thailand allows for alot more wiggle room though, so the Reisig tale might be considered. Your overlook the fact that the Del Pinto case was neither heard nor adjudicated upon. The accused had legal rights, even if people disagree. The Del Pinto case had and still has reasonable doubt. Fortunately, the courts do not convict on the speculation of ThaiVisa experts or on Andrew Drummond's opinions. There are a great many people who love Thailand because of its laissez faire attitude on some issues. Well, hand in hand with that comes people like Sgt. Uthai.

I do not dispute that Sgt. Uthai may have had a questionable history. That then speaks to the big question: Why was he on the street with a badge and a gun? why didn't his commanding officer(s) address the allegations of drinking while on duty? Why didn't Dr. Pornthip raise these questions? Maybe Sgt. Uthai is guilty of the crime, but you and the other let's hang Sgt. Uthai are no better than the locals that seek to blame one person for a serious event that involves many.

[blablablabla]

While it is true that what has happened smells like corruption and abuse of power from a mile away, I think it is also true that this kind of nonsense is NOT just applicable to Thailand! I am sure that all foreigners could cite stories where their own police in their own country faired as badly in similar events! In Canada, the Pickton story is one prime example of how police can protect each other (because the rich and powerful count on them to protecft them): how the rich and powerful can protect the police and vice versa. The Robert Dziekanski story (and the Wikipedia article) reveal similar abuse and shenanigans from the police force and the justice system. In other words, corruption is not just a Thai word! It does not make it right, though! I hear many stories of foreigners being treated unjustly! I would like to know if in reality Thais (of lower status) suffer also from a justice system permeable to corruption from the ones who have power and money! I just saw (by sheer luck) a story of this Thai who had been wrongfully accused (so it would seem) of drug offenses (I am not sure of the details). I am not sure if she was of lower status. She was released and the media reported on the case though! What was very apparent was the lack of an interview by any official in the matter though! It does show that independent bodies must be set up, but how can you make them truly independent! That is the question! If reform in Western cultures is hard, one can only imagine how much harder this would be in Asian cultures, where saving face is an art form (where reform is an admission that things are not perfect,... an admission of error, which is frowned upon)! In other words, one better be VERY careful in the Land of the (happy, nervous, intimidated,...) Smiles!

[denishuahin]

Leo Del Pinto, he looks happy in the photo I hope that he rest in peace, but I think his family will have to wait a very long time to see any action from the courts and hopefully they don't expect a western type of conclusion. Farangs are expendable in Thailand the same as "unimportant" Thai's, this was a phrase my wife use after a hotel receptionist was killed in a hotel we were at on Rama 2 Bangkok 18 months ago. I was driving away 15 min's after the murder, as the police arrived and they pulled over and let me past. When I asked why the police did not stop people leaving the hotel until all names were taken, she said he's not important! My friend Steve was shot in the back by his wife's brother, he stayed one night in jail, and the the verdict was self defence, "work it out ". They got his farm, house, hotel and car / motorbikes and then said to my son when he asked why they did it. If he did not leave the area the same would happen to him! He left Phon.

Don't expect any protection or justice in Thailand.

Edited January 1, 2011 by denishuahin

[geriatrickid]

[

Oh my god Geriatric Kid is still supporting this bullshit?! Besides the fact that your knowledge of the case is completely lacking, where on earth do you think you are that you make outrageous statements like "but that's up to the judge(s) to decide based upon the evidence"..... you honestly believe that judges make decisions here based on righteous philosophies like truth and evidence? TIT! I dated a lawyer who was getting prepped for the judges seat, in the end she could not continue on her career path as her scruples wouldn't allow her to take a position where she would be forced to break the law and take corruption money, if she didn't follow the game plan her life would be at risk! this is common knowledge to Thais, but we still have foreigners bleating ridiculous ideology like it actually means something here.

Unfortunately good law abiding upstanding honest Thais like my ex girlfriend are NOT taking these positions of power in Thailand because it is impossible to live righteously in those positions, the country will not allow you to. So who takes all the positions of power in the country? Thats right.......

You claim my knowledge is lacking. I believe it exceeds yours as I have at least read some of the "forensic" documentation in addition to the same information as you have, unless you are going to claim that you have read the investigation reports and spoken with the investigators. You are now dismissing the Thai judiciary as corrupt where judge's seats are bought. Well, you are going to have to make a tough decision now in respect to consistency. if you consider the Thai judiciary corrupt in the whole then you must reject the Thaksin verict since it was that "corrupt" court system that found him guilty. If the system is corrupt, then all decisions that flow from it are invalid. Strangely enough that puts you in good company with some of the people currently incarcerated on political charges.

Anyway, you do realize that Sgt. Uthai's case wasn't even pleaded or adjudicated, so where do you get off claiming the judges were corrupt? Hello?

Now you bring up your girlfriend that you claim was being considered for a judge's seat and claim the events as you dscribe them are an attestation of Thai judicial corruption. Junior level magistrate positions have always been politically linked appointments in the west. In Mr. del Pinto's home country municipal and provincial court judges are usually friends of the governing party. There was an ongoing scandal in Canada called the Judge's Affair in respect to the appointment of judges associated with fundraising for both the Liberals and Tories. So what's your point? How do you think people get a QC designation in the UK?

I do not dispute for a minute that there may be questionable practices in the Thai court system, but in most cases these are civil commercial disputes involving factions of the ruling oligarchy. However, more specifically in the Del Pinto case, you insinuate that Sgt. uthai was walking about because of the Thai judiciary. WRONG. There was no judicial involvement.

As an aside, I suggest you keep your yap shut when in the proximity of your girlfriend's work colleagues. Comments such as yours will end up ostracizing the woman and leaving her stuck filing real estate papers.

Edited January 1, 2011 by geriatrickid

[Arkady]

The Lonely Planet Guides guy is based in Pai and distorted the facts to protect his own and Pai's interests.

The "Lonely Planet Guy" has not lived in Pai or written any guidebooks for LP for many years. He has a pretty successful band and writes articles for magazines. I really doubt if he has purposely distorted the truth in print for any reason.

By the way, comparing Pai to Pattaya is ridiculous. They have nothing at all in common and play-for-pay is almost unknown in Pai. Are you sure that you have even been there?

Could you please be more specific on what you mean by a successful band? I believe I have seen the outfit to which you refer.

[jayjay0]

I rather think the evidence of the two independent witnesses and Dr.Pornthips evidence that Leo was shot while on the ground makes all the negative comments about Carly Reisig statements rather insignificant or did you not understand this point?

Mr. Drummond, you can think what you want, but the law is the law. The chorus in TVF is that the law must prevail and that if this was in the west there would have been swift justice. Wrong. Dr. Pornthip cannot be considered a reliable expert. Her conduct in the bomb detector fiasco is responsible for that. If one wanted to apply western rules, then every case that Dr. Pornthip opined upon could now be contested and questioned. (I have been consistent in that opinion ever since the bomb detector crisis arose and made the statement at the time that every opinion Dr. Pornthip ever gave could be invalidated. That's how it works in pathology and the law.) One need look no further than Mr. Del Pinto's home country of Canada to see what happens when a pathologist bungles. Look up the pathologist Dr. Charles Smith and see what impact it had on the court system. One can therefore not rely on evidence that comes from a source that can be considered flawed.

Describing Carly Reisig's statements as insignificant, is a cute and convenient way of dismissing the fact that much of the information she provided was inaccurate and misleading. When a witness provides evidence like that, the witness testimony is dismissed in its whole, even if there are some valid aspects. Thailand allows for alot more wiggle room though, so the Reisig tale might be considered. Your overlook the fact that the Del Pinto case was neither heard nor adjudicated upon. The accused had legal rights, even if people disagree. The Del Pinto case had and still has reasonable doubt. Fortunately, the courts do not convict on the speculation of ThaiVisa experts or on Andrew Drummond's opinions. There are a great many people who love Thailand because of its laissez faire attitude on some issues. Well, hand in hand with that comes people like Sgt. Uthai.

I do not dispute that Sgt. Uthai may have had a questionable history. That then speaks to the big question: Why was he on the street with a badge and a gun? why didn't his commanding officer(s) address the allegations of drinking while on duty? Why didn't Dr. Pornthip raise these questions? Maybe Sgt. Uthai is guilty of the crime, but you and the other let's hang Sgt. Uthai are no better than the locals that seek to blame one person for a serious event that involves many.

Your entire sure fired thing is based on a western tradition. The tradition is how ever, very selective. The idea that every one is perfect is not there contention.However certain people must be or one should never listen to them again and every thing they have said is suspect. They must be more than human. (smacks of divine) In real life pretty unrealistic.

Good thing that is not the way it operates here.

To put it in a fading western quotation "People who live in glass houses should not throw rocks".

To give you a idea of how it works here I allow you to be wrong with out ignoring any thing you say. You do on occasion hit the bull's Eye dead on. And other times come close. This is not one of those times.

[swillowbee]

... heartbreaking for the del Pinto family ... many farang in Thailand who know this country well wish this were otherwise, but the likelihood that the family will see justice by the Thai judicial system in the murder of their son is unlikely.

... while there might appear an image of progress in this case, we all know where this will end ... Thai culture is a master of deception ... smiles, wais, grace and all appearances belie the reality of the underlying true nature ... they are okay with this deception, and they will persist as long as it takes to run its course ... it is in their cultural DNA ... and cultural values are essentially unchangeable.

... more likely, however, is that justice will be meted out by the family of the murdered wife of Sgt. Uthai ... informally handled at the local level ... privately ... her family might be simply paid-off, several tens of thousands of baht, maybe a bit more ... they won't push it too hard, as the blow-back could be quite threatening ... perhaps a greater retribution will be paid for by Sgt. Uthai if the family has ties to influential people.

... farang who have lived here for even a few years have no illusions ... culturally, Thailand is a Third World country ... and the cultural values drive everything ... think how justice is administered in Sub-Saharan Africa ... that is us.

... God rest Leo del Pinyo's soul.

Edited January 1, 2011 by swillowbee