Pib Posted July 18, 2011 Author Share Posted July 18, 2011 Conclusion: Using a Schwab Visa Debit card for ATM pulls of 75k baht saves me about $15 per month over both a MC Debit card and the ACH (using BB ATM card) methods. The savings between MC and ACH, using the published MC rates, is only 65 cents. And if the 29.99 rate llp got represents an even worsening of MC foreign rates, well Visa really wins, hands down. And, of course, using a Visa credit card over a MC credit card represents the same kind of savings. Plus, with the Visa Debit Card ATM withdrawal you have the money in-hand immediately compared to using an ACH transfer which takes a 2-3 business days (which can turn into 4-7 calender days if you get unlucky with weekends and Thai/American holidays....happenned to my once about two years ago...took 6 or 7 calendar days for the ACH transfer to post to my Thai bank account due to a weekend and Thai & American holidays lining up just right). Preaching to the choir I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgm005 Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 The wife, up in Nongbulamphu, has been using the Schwab VISA Debit card twice or so a month at the local Kasikorn ATM for about three months now. Thus incurring the 150bt fee each time (Closest AEON ATM is a solid two hour R/T drive from the home). It has always been automatically reimbursed within the first couple of business days in the next month. Jim, I'm assuming you're talking about the Schwab VISA debit card associated with their "high yield" checking account. Yes. No refund showing yet for my 12 Jul withdrawal. Will see what happens at the end of the month. Thanx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Interesting.. indeed... When I check the AEON web site for locating branches and their ATMs, it shows no locations anywhere in Nong Bua Lamphu province or even in the adjoining Loei province... It does show a branch in adjoining Udon Thani province, in the main city, on the other side of NBL province... http://www.aeonthailand.com/aeon/web.do?chp=Service_Location〈=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgm005 Posted July 21, 2011 Share Posted July 21, 2011 JF, Wrong direction. Khon Kaen Central Festival has a AEON branch inside with two ATM's outside. In Udon Thani, if we go that way, has an AEON ATM in the Old Tesco past the airport. Either one is out of the way unless we have a reason to do some 'real' shopping. :-) Interesting.. indeed... When I check the AEON web site for locating branches and their ATMs, it shows no locations anywhere in Nong Bua Lamphu province or even in the adjoining Loei province... It does show a branch in adjoining Udon Thani province, in the main city, on the other side of NBL province... http://www.aeonthailand.com/aeon/web.do?chp=Service_Location〈=en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Just an update note on Schwab Investor Checking and State Farm Interest Checking, both of which provide no foreign transaction fee debit cards and talked about in this topic. Somewhere over the past month or so I had mentioned in some topic/post that the Schwab checking paid 0.25% APY and State Farm checking paid 0.74% APY. I've been getting this 0.74% rate since I joined SF about 3 month ago....to the best of my knowledge the 0.74% was not an introductory offer. Well, Schwab is still paying 0.25% but SF over the last week has dropped its rate to 0.54% APY. I emailed SF about this and they said the their rate is based on a variable rate and when changing usually changes on a Wednesday. That significantly higher interest rate of 0.74% compared to Schwab's 0.25% was a major reason in me moving more money into the SF Banking versus Schwab Banking, which in turn drove usage of the SF debit card more than the Schwab debit card. Plus, with SF setting up ACH transfer links is done via online trial deposits which is fast & easy, versus Schwab's paper-based ACH setup method for their checking and savings accounts accounts (brokerage acct links can be setup via trial deposits). Just FYI for you folks having/considering both Schwab and SF checking accounts and using their debit cards. The SF checking interest paid is still higher than Schwab but that gap has narrowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 The other day...I started a new thread on Banking in Thailand for Americans 101....to discuss the key basics of banking here... And in doing so, I made mention of the FlyerGuide website that tallies foreign currency fees of various credit and debit cards.... And in looking at that site for that, I noticed they're saying that the State Farm Bank accounts charge a 1% FCF on both ATM and POS transactions abroad.... But clearly, you guys are saying they don't... So, in this instance, is the FlyerGuide site either wrong or out of date on this??? The web site also is saying State Farm does a hard credit pull on new account openings with all three major credit agencies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted July 22, 2011 Author Share Posted July 22, 2011 Can't speak to the SF ATM or credit card which I don't have, but for the SF Visa Debt card I have and use regularly, as of 7 July 11, when I last used used the debit card to pull 20,000 baht it resulted in a $658.98 charge hitting my SF bank account and that dollar amount matched the Visa exchange rate web page "exactly". With the Bank Fee set to 0% on the Visa page I got a rate of 0.032949. 20,000 baht times 0.032949 equals $658.98. All other withdrawals before 7 July also exactly matched the Visa exchange rate of the day with the Bank Fee set to 0%. Anything is possible but if SF did change their debit card foreign transaction fee policy I haven't received any email/written notice, don't see anything on their web site/disclosures about a change, etc., and as mentioned, the Visa exchange rate set to 0% Bank Fee is matching exactly the amount being charged to my SF account (and there are no other/separate charges like a 1% fee). Based on what I know right now, I would say the Flyguide web site is wrong. But my next ATM withdrawal, which I should do within a couple of days, will provide confirmation if they have changed their policy....hopefully they haven't....hopefully the Flyguide web site is wrong. I thought the FlyGuide web site "use" to say 0% for the SF ATM and Debit cards with the SF Credit Card being 3% like currently reflected even on the SF web site for their credit card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 (edited) Rooting around the Flyerguide site JFC mentions, I found the following reference site: http://education.cardhub.com/currency-exchange-study/ That site compares MasterCard and Visa FX rates -- and shows, using a Euro/Dollar example, that MC gives a worse FX rate over Visa -- by .75%. Recently, on another thread, I pointed out something similar, where my limited sample came up with .60% less favorable FX rate for MC debit and credit cards (and Cirrus ATM cards). That .60% works out, for me, to $180/year savings by using a Visa debit card, vice MC debit card, in ATM machines in Thailand. Plus, I have additional savings using a Visa debit or credit card for POS transactions compared to MC. Anyway, the good-deal, no fee Schwab and SF cards are Visa -- so you automatically back into the better Visa deal. And, off the top of my head, I don't recall any other good-deal Visa ATM/Debit cards. Cap One is, I believe, no fee. But its ATM/Debit card is MC. Now, the Cap One credit card is MC. But, its no fee feature, plus the 2% cash back feature, overcome the less-favorable MC FX glitch -- to some extent. Anyway, Pib mentioned fractional percentages earlier on, with interest earned at Schwab and SF. Just thought I'd throw in my .6% worth -- 'cause your choice of card logo can eventually add up to measurable savings -- or opportunity cost. Edited July 22, 2011 by JimGant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgm005 Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 I use the S/F Visa Debit card exclusively now. Ever since I first talked about it here. There has been 'no' tag on 1% fee of any sort in any of many ATM pulls. I just hope it continues that way. Coincidentally I just got my credit reports (27/June) from all three major credit reporting agencies. Only TransUnion showed up and it was as an 'inquiry'.jgm Snipped And in looking at that site for that, I noticed they're saying that the State Farm Bank accounts charge a 1% FCF on both ATM and POS transactions abroad.... But clearly, you guys are saying they don't... So, in this instance, is the FlyerGuide site either wrong or out of date on this??? The web site also is saying State Farm does a hard credit pull on new account openings with all three major credit agencies.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfchandler Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Thanks for confirming and updating on that, JGM... Seems as though FlyerGuide's info for State Farm is really off the mark... As I mentioned earlier, the guide web site is a pretty good resource, and a good starting point for such research... But and this and other past items show, they're not perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted July 25, 2011 Share Posted July 25, 2011 Seems as though FlyerGuide's info for State Farm is really off the mark... At the bottom of their webpage: Note: Please feel free to edit this link building service and seo blog page if you have confirmed, accurate information to put in it. If you are unsure about the accuracy of your information, please do NOT edit this page, but rather contact user 'themicah' using the private message feature at Flyertalk.com. If you make edits, please explain the changes you made in the "summary" field on the edit page. Over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Seems as though FlyerGuide's info for State Farm is really off the mark... At the bottom of their webpage: Note: Please feel free to edit this link building service and seo blog page if you have confirmed, accurate information to put in it. If you are unsure about the accuracy of your information, please do NOT edit this page, but rather contact user 'themicah' using the private message feature at Flyertalk.com. If you make edits, please explain the changes you made in the "summary" field on the edit page. Over. Yeap, I saw the FlyerGuide's note about how members of the FlyerGuide blog can update data. My brain really tells me the FlyersGuide had a 0% ATM and Debit card entry until very recently. Expect a member(s) sent some bad info on State Farm...and the data was not confirmed.....he/she probably got charged some fee, maybe by the bank owning the ATM machine, that worked out to around 1% and he/she just assumed it was a State Farm ATM/Debit card fee. Hard telling....just hope I don't get some notice via Email or snail mail from State Farm saying they are changing the fee from 0 to 1%. For now, I'm just going to assume it's a Flyer's Guide error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted July 25, 2011 Author Share Posted July 25, 2011 Taken from the State Farm web site fees/truth in lending web site a few minutes ago regardig Automatic Teller Machine (ATM) usage. The first sentence says it all. The policy looks identifical to what it was when I joined 3 to 4 months ago. Haven't used my State Farm debit card since around 7 July 11, but through that point I can definitely say there was no fee. Should use the card sometime this week to reconfirm. State Farm Bank® will not charge You for the use of ATMs not owned by the Bank (considered foreign ATMs). Further, the Bank will rebate a foreign ATM surcharge imposed by the ATM owner in any amount assessed against a State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Account provided that there is a direct deposit via an Automated Clearing House (ACH) credit into that account during the statement cycle of the foreign ATM transaction. If there has been no direct deposit via an ACH credit into the State Farm Bank Checking, Interest Checking, or Money Market Account during the statement cycle, the Bank will rebate up to a total of $10 in foreign ATM surcharges per account per statement cycle. State Farm Bank Savings Accounts will be rebated up to a total of $10 in foreign ATM surcharges per account per statement cycle. For International ATM Fees incurred travelling outside of the U.S., please call Us at 1-877-734-2265 to have your rebate applied to your account. For those customers who receive up to $10 per statement cycle, the amount of the International ATM Fee Rebate will be deducted from your $10 benefit. When You use an ATM not owned by Us, You may be charged a fee by the ATM operator and You may be charged a fee for a balance inquiry even if You do not complete a fund transfer. The Bank will impose a fee to non-State Farm Bank issued cards for withdrawing cash from a State Farm Bank ATM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 Did a withdrawal today on an AEON ATM using my SF Visa debit card. Decided I should get some money before the U.S. defaults next week and the dollar drops to 28 Baht/USD. When I got back home I checked my SF account to see the dollar charge/exchange rate, compared that against the Visa Exchange Rate web page, and also compared the Visa rate against the Bangkok Bank TT Buying Rate at the time of the ATM withdrawal. Results: There was no 1% foreign transaction fee applied for the withdrawal as now reported by the FlyersGuide web site (the site use to report 0%), the rate on the Visa page was 29.71 baht/USD with a 0% Bank Fee setting, this 29.71 rate matched the dollar charge hitting my SF account. Additionally, the Visa rate of 29.71 exceeded the Bangkok Bank TT Buying rate which was 29.56....the Visa rate was 0.5% higher. Kept some of the money withdrawn for the billfold and then walked about 20 steps to deposit the rest in my savings account using a Cash Deposit Machine. Awesome! So, the SF debit card (and I expect their ATM card also) still has a 0% foreign transaction fee, got an exchange rate noticeably higher than the TT rate, and got/deposited the money within a few minutes. A 0% foreign transaction fee debit card sure beats using ACH/SWIFT to get money from the home country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 A 0% foreign transaction fee debit card sure beats using ACH/SWIFT to get money from the home country. Yes -- but only as long as that ATM/Debit card refunds the 150bt ATM fee, for those of us country hicks unwilling to use 200bt worth of gas -- plus time -- to head to the nearest Aeon ATM machine. And only if the card has a Visa logo (or, if a no-logo ATM card, if it rides the PLUS network) -- 'cause MasterCard/Cirrus cards are about 18 satang more expensive in FX than Visa/PLUS cards. Which comes out to about $15 more per month with three 25000bt-each ATM pulls. And, per a previous post, an ACH transfer is identical (well, $.65 difference) to using a MC ATM/Debit card to obtain 75000bt/mo -- assuming the issuing bank refunds the 150bt per pull ATM fee. Or you use it in an Aeon ATM machine. So, not sure why I'd ever opt for the MC ATM/Debit option over ACH... So, right now Schwab, with its Visa, seems the best deal -- saving you $5 per 25k ATM pull, compared to ACH or MC -- as long as they continue their 150bt ATM refund (or you use Aeon). If they cancel the ATM refund, well, ACH wins, as it would then be a push -- and I wouldn't have the scary thought of depositing money into my BB account via a machine! S/F is a close second. But, for ATM refunds over $10, you need to have a direct deposit with them -- something I would not be prepared to do. But, heck, that $10,000 ACH deposit two weeks ago sure looks golden compared to the dollar's plunge... Schwab stays in the drawer for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pib Posted July 26, 2011 Author Share Posted July 26, 2011 (edited) ... the scary thought of depositing money into my BB account via a machine! Jim I was somewhat a'feared the first time also since I didn't really know how a deposit machine worked...and would that durn machine count my money right, just eat my money, etc. But I figured since I see Thai's using them to deposit all variety of amounts (you can deposit up to 100K baht per deposit using he machine) I figured I could do it to. But the deposit machine does count your money right (it can count up to 100 bills), tells you how much it counted, asks you is it the correct amount, shows you the acct number the money is to be deposited in, asks you to confirm it the correct acct number (the machine gets takes the acct number off your BB debit card you slide in the machine or if you forgot the card you can enter the acct number manually), and then it gives you a receipt after depositing the money. There always seems to be a Passbook Saving Update machine right next to the Deposit Machine so you can just side over a step or two and update your passbook to reconfirm/document the deposit...plus I only make the deposits when the bank outlet is open with reps still on duty so I can go running to them for help if something goes wrong. However, I usually don't carry my passbook to update when I make such a deposit and just come back and look on my BB iBanking to reconfirm the deposit hit my acct/matches my deposit receipt. Works good....probably made around 10-15 deposits over the last 5 months or so using this Deposit Machine method after withdrawing funds with my Schwab Visa or SF Visa debit card. Normally I don't make that many deposits but I was increasing my BB acct balance for a large buy later on. Regarding the SF $10 ATM fee reimbursement per month unless a monthly direct deposit occurs, fortunately, I have fairly easily access to AEON ATMs here in Bangkok plus I'm getting ready to switch a monthly govt pension payment to SF so I will be able to get unlimited ATM fee reimbursements if AEON ever starts charging a fee....plus SF pays a higher interest rate than Schwab Banking. Of course if the U.S. defaults next week I may not be getting any pension payments come Sept and will have to come live with you. Cheers, Pib Edited July 26, 2011 by Pib Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimGant Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Pib, Well, I guess sticking your money in a strange puka isn't as scary as I thought. But, it just wouldn't be worth the aggravation for me. Since I have to do a tennis shoe interface anyway with the bank/ATM to physically get my walking around money, getting the Schwab card was well-worth it, as well as effortless. However, when I need to load the BB bank accounts, for large purchases, utilities, etc, a few key strokes on the home computer gets my nod. Yeah, that .61% savings re ACH is real money. But, don't think we'll outlive our savings, so recently we've just chalked up heretofore foolish spending as 'less inheritance for the niece.' The one -- and maybe only -- advantage of getting old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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