Thai Banks Legal Scam! When It Will Stop?

[kalseo]

Hi Thai Visa members,

I just want to say that I am sick of Thai exchange rates on foreign credit cards, just got 28 Baht/USD. And as well this ridiculous 150 baht charge per transaction! When this legal scam will stop? Or Thailand want to piss all tourists?! Everybody can see that every year tourists are less than previous, I don't trust the official TAT data as I can see it by myself

Cheers!

[InterestedObserver]

Bangkok Bank posted exchange rates for USD are 28.94 - 29.72. So 28 Baht/USD for a credit card transaction is not outrageous or a scam. The foreign credit card rate for ATM cash withdrawal would be set by Visa/MasterCard. Yes, a ATM transaction fee of 150 baht is charged by the local bank. Tourists are finding that the Thailand of bygone times no longer exists.

Edited January 5, 2011 by InterestedObserver

[kalseo]

Bangkok Bank posted exchange rates for USD are 28.94 - 29.72. So 28 Baht/USD for a credit card transaction is not outrageous or a scam. Yes, a ATM transaction fee of 150 baht is charged. Tourists are finding that the Thailand of bygone times no longer exists.

Yes mate, you are right, 28.94 - 29.72, but 28.94 comes for exchange for $1 banknotes, not for a the whole transaction of $1000 for example, am I right?

[InterestedObserver]

Bangkok Bank posted exchange rates for USD are 28.94 - 29.72. So 28 Baht/USD for a credit card transaction is not outrageous or a scam. Yes, a ATM transaction fee of 150 baht is charged. Tourists are finding that the Thailand of bygone times no longer exists.

Yes mate, you are right, 28.94 - 29.72, but 28.94 comes for exchange for $1 banknotes, not for a the whole transaction of $1000 for example, am I right?

You need to blame Visa/MasterCard for the exchange rate used to debit your home bank.

[samran]

oh dear...another one of these threads which imply that businesses should be charities....

[calbts2]

The scam stops( actually it never started with me) when you do the following:

1. Use AEON ATMS exclusively - they do not charge the 150 baht ripoff fee.

2. Use a Capital One Credit Mastercard and/or Capital One ATM card - with the credit card - no ripoff 1-3% FOREIGN FEE that just about all other US credit cards charge for foreign purchases. The exchange rate is decent too. I use it all the time and actually love this card. Their ATM card from what I understand also does not charge foreign fees but I don't have one of those.

3. Use a Charles Schwab ATM/Debit card - also like Cap One - no Foreign fee and the reimburse any ATM fees - domestic or foreign fee at the end of the month that you may have been charged. I like to use the no fee AEON ATMS to save me the hassle of keeping track of fees. I also find the foreign exchange rate almost identical to the real time rate on xe.com.

As far as National banks go, Capital One and Schwab are by far the best options when outside the US. I have used both in many other countries and have incurred no extra foreign fees and good exchange rates.

I also have accounts at Citibank USA and US Bank and a US Bank VISA. These ATM cards collect dust as their foreign fees are outrageous. Citibank used to be good until about 2006 when their ATM fees went from free to 1% and now 3%.

I just closed my account at CHASE. What a horrible bank. Used to be free checking WAMU with 1% foreign fee but now the liars and thieves at Chase want to charge me for checking and rip me off with high ATM fees. STAY AWAY FROM CHASE!!

Edited January 5, 2011 by calbts2

[martin81]

When the ATM asks you if you want to accept the exchange rate they offer and display your local USD amount then please press the NO button.

That way the exchange rate will be determined by the bank issuing the CC. It will often be better than rate offered by the thai bank.

I had a recent example where the thai bank wanted to add around 7% to the central bank exchange rate. This was for a smaller EU currency.

[doggie888888]

oh dear...another one of these threads which imply that businesses should be charities....

During the global financial crisis, many businesses did behave like charities...going to the public purse for generous handouts.

[Naam]

oh dear...another one of these threads which imply that businesses should be charities....

the oxymoron "legal scam" is preferable to the usual "racism"

[asiawatcher]

Banks ARE thieves - yes - but the choice to use them is yours. I just got hit up for USD150 fee on my Visa for a USD5,000 hotel bill in HK. User pays I guess! But that one hurt...

[Pib]

Say thanks to your home country bank/credit card for the apparent low exchange rate "due to the foreign transaction fee" of 1 to 3% they applied....this fee is applied for any foreign transaction, regardless of what foreign country/foreign zone you are in. You can indeed blame the Thai banks for the separate 150 baht fee...avoid this 150 fee by using an AEON ATM if possible.

You need to get a credit/debit card that has the lowest possible foreign transaction fee, as Visa/Mastercard give an exchange rate right around the TT rate..."then they whack off the 1 to 3% via the foreign transaction fee depending on a card's particular fee structure unless you have a card that provides a zero foreign transaction fee. Foreign transaction fees/percentages vary from bank-to-bank/card-to-card, so you need to do some card research.

P.S.: My Capital One Mastercard credit card with zero foreign transaction fee, no annual fee, and 1-2% cash back on purchases is in the mail.

Edited January 5, 2011 by Pib

[grin]

P.S.: My Capital One Mastercard credit card with zero foreign transaction fee, no annual fee, and 1-2% cash back on purchases is in the mail.

Does your Capital One cash back card recognize Thai grocery stores and gas stations for the 2% cash back? Are Carrefour, Tesco, Big C, etc recognized as grocery stores?

[Pib]

P.S.: My Capital One Mastercard credit card with zero foreign transaction fee, no annual fee, and 1-2% cash back on purchases is in the mail.

Does your Capital One cash back card recognize Thai grocery stores and gas stations for the 2% cash back? Are Carrefour, Tesco, Big C, etc recognized as grocery stores?

Don't know yet...the card was mailed last Tuesday before last per a Capital One email...I should be getting the card over the next few days/next week. Once I get it, I will be doing test run purchases to confirm the no foreign transaction fee, approx TT rate exchange rate, and 1 or 2% cash back depending on the purchase. Even if it don't recognize Carrefour, Tesco, Big C as grocery stores (and they are really more than just a grocery store since they sell a variety of goods), I'm still suppose to get the 1% cash back as that is baseline/lowest cash back percentage provided for any purchase....I'll still be tickled pink with a only 1% cash back and no foreign transaction fee. I will post some feedback after I get the card and do some test purchases.

Edited January 12, 2011 by Pib

[Wallaby]

150 baht is a bit of a pain but it isn't beer and skittles her in OZ with normal banking. My bank doesn't seem to want a lot of ATM's around for some reason. So if I'm out and about and use another bank's ATM I'm hit with a fee of $2 - $2.50 per withdrawal.

So a 150 baht fee for withdrawing in Thailand for me isn't too big of a hike. But then again, I use my debit card to withdraw money (my money) when in Thailand but my bank doesn't accept it as 'my money' when I'm overseas. The somehow find it necessary that all funds I withdraw when overseas is actually THEIR money on credit and they hit me with more fees.

Bloody shockers the banks here.

[Pib]

P.S.: My Capital One Mastercard credit card with zero foreign transaction fee, no annual fee, and 1-2% cash back on purchases is in the mail.

Does your Capital One cash back card recognize Thai grocery stores and gas stations for the 2% cash back? Are Carrefour, Tesco, Big C, etc recognized as grocery stores?

Don't know yet...the card was mailed last Tuesday before last per a Capital One email...I should be getting the card over the next few days/next week. Once I get it, I will be doing test run purchases to confirm the no foreign transaction fee, approx TT rate exchange rate, and 1 or 2% cash back depending on the purchase. Even if it don't recognize Carrefour, Tesco, Big C as grocery stores (and they are really more than just a grocery store since they sell a variety of goods), I'm still suppose to get the 1% cash back as that is baseline/lowest cash back percentage provided for any purchase....I'll still be tickled pink with a only 1% cash back and no foreign transaction fee. I will post some feedback after I get the card and do some test purchases.

Got the Capital One Cash Rewards (Mastercard) credit card in the mail today (an APO address)...activated it...asked for a supplemental card for the wife. Took 3 weeks from phone application to card in-hand. Since I did a major grocery run this morning to Makro (who only take the Makro credit card or cash) and don't need any groceries immediately, I'll probably give the new card a try this weekend at Lotus, Carrefour, and/or Big C to see if the cash back credit reflects as a 1% or 2% cash back on the Capital One account. But as mentioned earlier since it's primarily up the the retailers/stores themselves to properly identify their type of store in the credit card payment system and since Lotus, Carrefour, and Big C are really a retail store that sells most everything versus just groceries I'm expecting to get the 1% cash back...if I get 2% then great! The key thing for me was to get a credit card with no foreign transaction fee and gives an approx TT exhange rate...the cash back portion is just icing on the cake. More to come after I make some purchases.

[aurelius]

Tesco, Carrefour etc are recorded as a merchant category code "Hypermarkets" .. don't know if that helps. Grocery/Supermarket would include Villa, Tops, etc.

[SantiSuk]

I don't borrow money so I'm glad I'm not having to subsidise all you borrowers out there with free or cheap lending from the banks.

Many people stopped using credit cards when out of their home country a long time ago because the charges are so high. It is not a Thai-exclusive issue.

[craigt3365]

I don't borrow money so I'm glad I'm not having to subsidise all you borrowers out there with free or cheap lending from the banks.

Many people stopped using credit cards when out of their home country a long time ago because the charges are so high. It is not a Thai-exclusive issue.

I don't use credit cards here due to the potential for fraud. I've heard too many horror stories.

I transfer a bulk amount in via Bangkok Bank...it's a relatively cheap transfer rate. And, you can get 25k Baht a pop at their ATMs, and it is also a debit card...which I only do in the more reputable stores. Makro, Carrefour, Tesco, etc. But only if I am out of cash or an ATM is not nearby!

Talk about ripoffs...try exchanging money at the train station upon arrival in Venice. Un-f'in real.

[ianguygil]

I don't borrow money so I'm glad I'm not having to subsidise all you borrowers out there with free or cheap lending from the banks.

Many people stopped using credit cards when out of their home country a long time ago because the charges are so high. It is not a Thai-exclusive issue.

I don't use credit cards here due to the potential for fraud. I've heard too many horror stories.

I transfer a bulk amount in via Bangkok Bank...it's a relatively cheap transfer rate. And, you can get 25k Baht a pop at their ATMs, and it is also a debit card...which I only do in the more reputable stores. Makro, Carrefour, Tesco, etc. But only if I am out of cash or an ATM is not nearby!

Talk about ripoffs...try exchanging money at the train station upon arrival in Venice. Un-f'in real.

Craig,

As you are especially security conscious and concerned about fraud, I wanted to make sure you were aware of the Be1st Smart Card. If you do not already have one of these please talk to your local branch.

The advantage of the Be1st Smart Card compared to a normal card is that they have a Chip on them so they can not be skimmed or duplicated. The restriction is that not every BBL ATM accepts them, although progressively more and more are being updated so that they do so. Also, you can not use this ATM card at the ATM of other banks.

So you could use iBanking (normal or Mobile) to transfer funds into an account tied to the Be1st Smart Card if you are especially concerned about your card being lost or stolen. You still need to chose a PIN, the experience is just like a normal BBL ATM card apart from the few seconds the ATM needs to read and validate the Chip.

Here is the link to the card.detail on our site

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Be1st%20and%20ATM%20Cards/Be1st%20Smart/Pages/Default.aspx

Ian

[Pib]

lan,

Any idea/guess about the percentage of BKK Bank ATM's that now accept the Be1st Smart card? Say 10%, 50%, etc.

Only asking since I was thinkng maybe BKK Bank keeps stats on the progress of getting all the machines updated. If you don't know off the top of your head, don't worry about answering.

Personnally, I like the new security feature but I don't want to give up the ability in being able to get money from other Thai bank ATMs, especially the ATMs like K-bank that don't charge a 20 baht fee for withdrawing funds from another bank like BKK Bank. Big Thanks.

Pib

[ianguygil]

lan,

Any idea/guess about the percentage of BKK Bank ATM's that now accept the Be1st Smart card? Say 10%, 50%, etc.

Only asking since I was thinkng maybe BKK Bank keeps stats on the progress of getting all the machines updated. If you don't know off the top of your head, don't worry about answering.

Personnally, I like the new security feature but I don't want to give up the ability in being able to get money from other Thai bank ATMs, especially the ATMs like K-bank that don't charge a 20 baht fee for withdrawing funds from another bank like BKK Bank. Big Thanks.

Pib

Pib,

Please give me a little while to check with the business on this. We definitely have those stats as we clearly need to know exactly which of the almsot 8,000 ATMs we do what. I will try to do this today, I am in the US on business next week so if I do not get to it today it will be soon, please just stick with me.

On the charge, it is actually pretty consistent I think across banks that you can use your ATM card at another bank's ATMs 3 times in a month without charges. But what do I know, I work in a Bank, so I use other bank ATMs about 4 times a year apart from overseas of course.

So I will get back to you on this. Thank you.

Ian

[ianguygil]

Duplicate. Sorry

Edited January 21, 2011 by ianguygil

[kropotkin]

I only use aeon ATM - no 150 baht, and the Visa/Mastercard rate is applied.

A few months back, i used a yellow bank ATM, Ayuthaia or something - following the advise on TV, about them too not charging 150.

Stupidly i agreed to their general rules.

Result: exchange rate NOT set by Visa...... and that cost me more then 150!

But for larger amounts i SWIFT - and i try to pay as often as possible with my Visa in restaurants or supermarkets.

When SWIFTING, always send YOUR currency, to be converted here, never send baht.

Of course, you can not win against the banks, but at least you can try not to loose too much.

[craigt3365]

I don't borrow money so I'm glad I'm not having to subsidise all you borrowers out there with free or cheap lending from the banks.

Many people stopped using credit cards when out of their home country a long time ago because the charges are so high. It is not a Thai-exclusive issue.

I don't use credit cards here due to the potential for fraud. I've heard too many horror stories.

I transfer a bulk amount in via Bangkok Bank...it's a relatively cheap transfer rate. And, you can get 25k Baht a pop at their ATMs, and it is also a debit card...which I only do in the more reputable stores. Makro, Carrefour, Tesco, etc. But only if I am out of cash or an ATM is not nearby!

Talk about ripoffs...try exchanging money at the train station upon arrival in Venice. Un-f'in real.

Craig,

As you are especially security conscious and concerned about fraud, I wanted to make sure you were aware of the Be1st Smart Card. If you do not already have one of these please talk to your local branch.

The advantage of the Be1st Smart Card compared to a normal card is that they have a Chip on them so they can not be skimmed or duplicated. The restriction is that not every BBL ATM accepts them, although progressively more and more are being updated so that they do so. Also, you can not use this ATM card at the ATM of other banks.

So you could use iBanking (normal or Mobile) to transfer funds into an account tied to the Be1st Smart Card if you are especially concerned about your card being lost or stolen. You still need to chose a PIN, the experience is just like a normal BBL ATM card apart from the few seconds the ATM needs to read and validate the Chip.

Here is the link to the card.detail on our site

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Be1st%20and%20ATM%20Cards/Be1st%20Smart/Pages/Default.aspx

Ian

For sure I have that card, and transfer funds into that account. I didn't really ask for it, but it is what they gave me when we opened our account there 1 year ago. I love it...but do have a backup ATM card just in case we are "up country" and can't find an ATM that takes this card. As I travel a lot, I always carry 2 ATM cards from different banks. Would have been a bummer to have been stuck in Rwanda without a valid ATM card!!!!!

Excellent recommendation!

[ianguygil]

lan,

Any idea/guess about the percentage of BKK Bank ATM's that now accept the Be1st Smart card? Say 10%, 50%, etc.

Only asking since I was thinkng maybe BKK Bank keeps stats on the progress of getting all the machines updated. If you don't know off the top of your head, don't worry about answering.

Personnally, I like the new security feature but I don't want to give up the ability in being able to get money from other Thai bank ATMs, especially the ATMs like K-bank that don't charge a 20 baht fee for withdrawing funds from another bank like BKK Bank. Big Thanks.

Pib

And the answer is (drum roll please Maestro)..

"Over 80% of our ATMs currently accept it, and we are progressively upgrading the remainder.

Please note that BBL cannot require the other banks in Thailand to upgrade their ATMs to read our chip cards.

Chip-enabled ATM’s abroad can accept our card, and all EDC’s at stores in Thailand and abroad"

[Pib]

lan,

Any idea/guess about the percentage of BKK Bank ATM's that now accept the Be1st Smart card? Say 10%, 50%, etc.

Only asking since I was thinkng maybe BKK Bank keeps stats on the progress of getting all the machines updated. If you don't know off the top of your head, don't worry about answering.

Personnally, I like the new security feature but I don't want to give up the ability in being able to get money from other Thai bank ATMs, especially the ATMs like K-bank that don't charge a 20 baht fee for withdrawing funds from another bank like BKK Bank. Big Thanks.

Pib

And the answer is (drum roll please Maestro)..

"Over 80% of our ATMs currently accept it, and we are progressively upgrading the remainder.

Please note that BBL cannot require the other banks in Thailand to upgrade their ATMs to read our chip cards.

Chip-enabled ATM's abroad can accept our card, and all EDC's at stores in Thailand and abroad"

lan,

Thanks. I just went to Foodland to stock up on some overpriced food (grin) and checked the Bkk Bank ATM right outside the store and the ATM had the Be1st Smart emblem. Then I began to wonder about the other Thai bank machines setting next to it as to if their machines would work with the Be1st Smart card. But you are one step ahead of me and already answered that question.

And my next question was going to be about those small purchase payment machines used by the checkout clerks (you called them EDC's), as to if all or only a percentage of them would work with the Be1st Smart card? But you are now two steps ahead of me and answered that already also.

I'll pay closer attention to my Bkk Bank ATM withdrawals over the next month or so--especially the 3 or 4 machines I do the great majority of my withdrawals from, and if the great majority I currently use are identified as smart card capable I'll upgrade my old Be1st card to a Be1st Smart card sooner versus later. I would give up the convience of being able to use another Thai bank ATM machine to get the great security of the Be1st Smart Card.

Cheers,

Pib

Edited January 21, 2011 by Pib

[craigt3365]

I have used my Be 1st card quite a few times. Carrefour, Makro, Tesco, Fuji, Central Festival department store, HomePro/Works, etc. Never had a problem with it. But I do try to limit it to reputable establishments only. Even in the US, I've had credit card fraud several times.

[Pib]

I have used my Be 1st card quite a few times. Carrefour, Makro, Tesco, Fuji, Central Festival department store, HomePro/Works, etc. Never had a problem with it. But I do try to limit it to reputable establishments only. Even in the US, I've had credit card fraud several times.

Any of these uses in another Thai bank's ATM? Or all the uses in a Bkk Bank ATM and checkout EDC?

[craigt3365]

I have used my Be 1st card quite a few times. Carrefour, Makro, Tesco, Fuji, Central Festival department store, HomePro/Works, etc. Never had a problem with it. But I do try to limit it to reputable establishments only. Even in the US, I've had credit card fraud several times.

Any of these uses in another Thai bank's ATM? Or all the uses in a Bkk Bank ATM and checkout EDC?

Only used it at BB ATM or the debit card machine at these stores checkouts. I'm a cheap charlie...don't want to pay 20B just to get some cash!!!! I'm near Pattaya, so there are BB Be1st ATMs all over the place. Even outside every store I use it for at the checkout!

[ianguygil]

I have used my Be 1st card quite a few times. Carrefour, Makro, Tesco, Fuji, Central Festival department store, HomePro/Works, etc. Never had a problem with it. But I do try to limit it to reputable establishments only. Even in the US, I've had credit card fraud several times.

The US is actually the last holdout in the developed world in terms of Chip and PIN as this is known (smartcards) for ATM and Debit. This actually causes some problems when traveling in some countries.The UK was one of the first to impose it nationwide and all the Banks cooperated to do that. But in the "interim" period when some where CHIP and some were just magstripe there was a LOT of fraud from smart people who would steal a CHIP card, disable the Chip, dupe the data from a stolen card and give it to a merchant or ATM not setup for Chip and PIN. The process would step down to just magstripe and the fraud would in most cases go ahead. The UK was successful in the end as all banks went with this and updated their ATMs.

In the US they currently rely on the sophistication of other parts of the infrastructure, especially some of the incredible anti-fraud systems they have in place. But that is becoming more and more challenging to maintain as the threat becomes more and more serious each year.