English At University

[sawatdee7]

Hello everyone.

What degree is required to teach English at a University in Thailand? Would they require at least a Master's Degree in English?

[Rumpole]

It depends on the individual university and how desperate they are for staff. It can also depend on the type of courses you are employed to teach. Most of them will request a master's in English, Linguistics, TEFLology or related discipline, but there are not huge numbers of farang master's degree holders battering down their doors for the dubious privilege of working for Bht25000 a month. Many universities will therefore settle for a bachelor's degree plus TEFL Certificate. This would be particularly true outside Bangkok, where the salaries can sometimes be even lower! Some universities also have conveyor-belt style Freshmen English programmes, teaching a few hours of English per week to all first year undergraduates, regardless of their subject major. You would not need a master's degree to teach these courses. The Rajabhat Universities are usually fairly desperate for warm bodies and they do not require a master's degree either. Be warned, though, that some of the Rajabhats can be pretty ghastly places to work, and the turnover rate of farang instructors at Thai universities in general is quite high. Low salaries are only the tip of the iceberg!

Edited August 26, 2005 by Rumpole

[Rhys]

The last post says it all.... But it sounds like your doing the first timer THANG..

[Tyree D.]

I'm tired of people b!tching about the salary. 25000 is more than twice the median family income of most provinces. The science supervisor at my school is getting only 11,000 a month. She has been teaching for 10 years compared to my one. When we told each other what our salaries were, her reply was, "Oh my Buddha, you are rich!" And all I have is a college degree, which got me nothing in America!

[sanook2me]

Tyree D

I'm tired of people b!tching about the salary. 25000 is more than twice the median family income of most provinces. The science supervisor at my school is getting only 11,000 a month. She has been teaching for 10 years compared to my one. When we told each other what our salaries were, her reply was, "Oh my Buddha, you are rich!" And all I have is a college degree, which got me nothing in America!

We as farangs should be paid more money to teach as we have a certain level of existence we're used to as well as the international telephone calls and flights back home. My body has not been brought up to deal with constant heat and a diet of rice and noodles, yes it can change but its a long process, so I need air-con and a diet of western food which all costs... a few good points as to why we are paid more money I'm sure some of the more educated writers can come up with different reasons..

However, I do agree with you that a lot of teachers get paid for only being a farang the problem is the teaching market is over inflated at the bottom end with so called teachers and higher than necessary salaries. What to do about it, make it illegal to work unless you are a degree holder from a reputable Western Uni. oh that's already a requirement thats ignored.

You will find teachers with the correct quals and experience earn the same as they would back in their western country and that's only right wouldn't you agree.

[Rumpole]

I'm tired of people b!tching about the salary. 25000 is more than twice the median family income of most provinces.  The science supervisor at my school is getting only 11,000 a month.  She has been teaching for 10 years compared to my one.   When we told each other what our salaries were, her reply was, "Oh my Buddha, you are rich!"  And all I have is a college degree, which got me nothing in America!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Irrelevant. You're not Thai and never will be. This will be made abundantly clear at every available opportunity. You do not have any of the support systems which the Thais have and will find it virtually impossible to obtain mortgages, credit etc. Thailand is hardly unique in paying expats more than locals, but one of the main differences is that in Thailand, the salary offered to a highly-qualified and experienced foreign teacher would probably be about the same as yours. Little wonder that few are tempted.

Salaries at Thai universities are just about the lowest in the region and have not increased for more than 15 years. They do not particularly want "real" foreign lecturers or professors, as they often only serve to highlight the ignorance and general lack of professionalism of Thai "professors". A quick glance at the international or regional league tables, together with the performance rate of Thai students in international examinations (i.e. the ones where Thai administrators are unable to manipulate the results), should give you an idea of the effect this has on the "quality" of Thai tertiary education.

Edited August 30, 2005 by Rumpole

[Rumpole]

..

Edited August 30, 2005 by Rumpole

[lost_in_space]

I'm tired of people b!tching about the salary. 25000 is more than twice the median family income of most provinces.  The science supervisor at my school is getting only 11,000 a month.  She has been teaching for 10 years compared to my one.  When we told each other what our salaries were, her reply was, "Oh my Buddha, you are rich!"  And all I have is a college degree, which got me nothing in America!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I used to work with a Thai professor who made less than I did. She'd remind me of that often. Then one day she drove up in her Mercedes...

Thais have customarily used the status or power of their position to augment their incomes, something we falang are much less able to do.

It's not a level playing field.

[gintOnic]

Tyree D

I'm tired of people b!tching about the salary. 25000 is more than twice the median family income of most provinces. The science supervisor at my school is getting only 11,000 a month. She has been teaching for 10 years compared to my one. When we told each other what our salaries were, her reply was, "Oh my Buddha, you are rich!" And all I have is a college degree, which got me nothing in America!

We as farangs should be paid more money to teach as we have a certain level of existence we're used to as well as the international telephone calls and flights back home. My body has not been brought up to deal with constant heat and a diet of rice and noodles, yes it can change but its a long process, so I need air-con and a diet of western food which all costs... a few good points as to why we are paid more money I'm sure some of the more educated writers can come up with different reasons..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just because one speak English doesn't mean you can teach English. I was born speaking Thai but that doesn't tell I can teach Thai to non-Thai speaker. If you have some Thai friends around who ever tried to explain the meaning of some Thai words to you - you might experience some people can make things clearer for you while some even make it more confusing !

Anyhow, if comparing English native speaker to Thai native speaker who have the same abilities in teaching people, I wouldn't deny English speaker must be better in teaching English and maybe you should get more paid. But how about some other fields like marketing or finance or whatever that is - if 2 persons can work indifferently then why still local get less paid? Is that just because they don't have to pay for international telephone calls and flights back home?

Sorry if my post is not really relevant to the topic - I just can't help myself

gintOnic

[Neeranam]

You'll find that most university lecturers are doing lots of 'cowboying'.

I had dinner with one with a PhD who gets less than I do. He gets 25,000b.

He makes 50,000 with extras. He has lots of free time and having a PhD teaches students who others can't for very good money.

Much the same as me.

[johnnyk]

My understanding is that the unis pay poorly (25-29K) but the teaching load is light. The 25-29K takes care of the essentials.

A light schedule leaves lots of time to earn the gravy with privates.

An additional 10K should be pretty easy to get and 35-40K is not a bad sum away from BKK.

Once in the uni you have access to a large client pool who will come to you.

Much better than trying to find privates by putting up pieces of paper on telephone poles.

I met a guy who taught at Khon Kaen Wittaya who told me he had had as many as 70 private clients at one time (not at the same time!!!).

Edited September 10, 2005 by johnnyk

[Tyree D.]

Tyree D

I'm tired of people b!tching about the salary. 25000 is more than twice the median family income of most provinces. The science supervisor at my school is getting only 11,000 a month. She has been teaching for 10 years compared to my one. When we told each other what our salaries were, her reply was, "Oh my Buddha, you are rich!" And all I have is a college degree, which got me nothing in America!

We as farangs should be paid more money to teach as we have a certain level of existence we're used to as well as the international telephone calls and flights back home. My body has not been brought up to deal with constant heat and a diet of rice and noodles, yes it can change but its a long process, so I need air-con and a diet of western food which all costs... a few good points as to why we are paid more money I'm sure some of the more educated writers can come up with different reasons..

However, I do agree with you that a lot of teachers get paid for only being a farang the problem is the teaching market is over inflated at the bottom end with so called teachers and higher than necessary salaries. What to do about it, make it illegal to work unless you are a degree holder from a reputable Western Uni. oh that's already a requirement thats ignored.

You will find teachers with the correct quals and experience earn the same as they would back in their western country and that's only right wouldn't you agree.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LMAO! BWAAAH. I need western food! I need to fly home! I'm not Thai and I will never be! It's too hot and I need more money because of this!

If you were trying to prove a point, you didn't. As for the second guy that quoted me, are we living and teaching in the same country?

[sanook2me]

Tyree

LMAO! BWAAAH. I need western food! I need to fly home! I'm not Thai and I will never be! It's too hot and I need more money because of this!

There are so many valid reasons for farangs or Mr.International to be paid more money than the locals, I was fowarding a different slant than the normal we have a better education.

Q&A time for you MR.Tyree flamin' D...

What food do you eat?

How often do you fly home?

How much air-con do you use?

Do you phone home?

What would be the point in working in a far off land to your own country if you weren't paid compensation money?

If you want to do that, go work for a charity mate !

I wasn't working for a charity I was teaching to make as much money as I could to have a decent life in the LoS.

[Neeranam]

What would be the point in working in a far off land to your own country if you weren't paid compensation money?

Because I like the country and the attitude towards work, life and other things.

I took a significant drop in wages. I used to earn more in a day,15 years ago in the oil business, than I do in a week now, and much much happier. Come to Thailand for money, don't be silly.

[Lawnmower]

Sorry haven't got the hang of the quote thing yet...this bit was from Rumpole

Irrelevant. You're not Thai and never will be. This will be made abundantly clear at every available opportunity. You do not have any of the support systems which the Thais have and will find it virtually impossible to obtain mortgages, credit etc. Thailand is hardly unique in paying expats more than locals, but one of the main differences is that in Thailand, the salary offered to a highly-qualified and experienced foreign teacher would probably be about the same as yours. Little wonder that few are tempted.

and this from me...

The fully qualified teachers in the international schools must be earning alot more than everyone in the bi-lingual or government schools. Are you just referring to universities ?

Edited September 11, 2005 by Lawnmower

[gintOnic]

What would be the point in working in a far off land to your own country if you weren't paid compensation money?

Because I like the country and the attitude towards work, life and other things.

I took a significant drop in wages. I used to earn more in a day,15 years ago in the oil business, than I do in a week now, and much much happier. Come to Thailand for money, don't be silly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neeranam - Good one! I'm really proud of you!

gintOnic

Edited September 11, 2005 by gintonic

[Rumpole]

The fully qualified teachers in the international schools must be earning alot more than everyone in the bi-lingual or government schools. Are you just referring to universities ?

Yes, in reference to the title of this thread.

Do not assume that all teachers at all universities have the opportunity to supplement their incomes due to a light teaching load. Many Thai universities will try to load up their foreign staff with compulsory overtime at unsociable hours (including weekends) and at very unfavourable rates. At least one of them insists that farang teachers give classes on separate campuses at opposite ends of the city on the same day. Thais, of course, are not expected to do this. The much vaunted "special classes" at higher rates of pay often do not materialize, and even if they do will be arbitrarily assigned by some capricious caporale, based solely on whether or not your face happens to fit. Thai professors and lecturers will also temporarily swallow their xenophobia in order to keep you very busy "editing" their personal papers and theses - free of charge, naturally.

And to Tyree D:

No. We are not teaching in the same country. I left the Thai edutainment circus in disgust three years ago, for another country in the region. It was the best move I ever made. I have worked in higher education in ten countries on three continents, and like many professional educators who dip their toes into the murky waters of Thailand's alleged institutions of learning, decided that the place was most definitely not for me.

Edited September 11, 2005 by Rumpole

[sanook2me]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2005-09-11 10:14:19)

QUOTE

What would be the point in working in a far off land to your own country if you weren't paid compensation money?

Because I like the country and the attitude towards work, life and other things.

I took a significant drop in wages. I used to earn more in a day,15 years ago in the oil business, than I do in a week now, and much much happier. Come to Thailand for money, don't be silly.

I was talking about the point Tyree flamin' D was making about the difference in salaries between farangs and Thais.

It reads like you were/are successful and have money aside from your teacher salary, which makes your existence a little easier than only living off your teachers pay. Wouldn't you agree?

Full international schools pay international salary rates, if you're qualified you get the money. Simple equation qualified = decent salary.

tyree D unqualified as a teacher so he works in a school with low salaries for Thais and westerners. If he was fully qualified and worked in an international school his Thai counterpart would be on an equal salary! sure.

[Rumpole]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2005-09-11 10:14:19)

QUOTE

What would be the point in working in a far off land to your own country if you weren't paid compensation money?

Because I like the country and the attitude towards work, life and other things.

I took a significant drop in wages. I used to earn more in a day,15 years ago in the oil business, than I do in a week now, and much much happier. Come to Thailand for money, don't be silly.

I was talking about the point Tyree flamin' D was making about the difference in salaries between farangs and Thais.

It reads like you were/are successful and have money aside from your teacher salary, which makes your existence a little easier than only living off your teachers pay. Wouldn't you agree?

Full international schools pay international salary rates, if you're qualified you get the money. Simple equation qualified = decent salary.

tyree D unqualified as a teacher so he works in a school with low salaries for Thais and westerners. If he was fully qualified and worked in an international school his Thai counterpart would be on an equal salary! sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not everyone wishes to teach in an international school, or indeed teach kids at all. There are many branches and sectors of education and the originator of this thread asked specifically about teaching at Thai universities. Whilst I take your point about unqualified teachers, let me assure you that "qualified = decent salary" is usually not the case in Thailand anywhere except the handful of real international schools.

The perennial plea of poverty offered by the Thais and some of their farang apologists simply will not wash. Universities in most other countries in the region, including some which are regarded as being considerably less developed than Thailand, manage to put together a package of salary, benefits and working conditions which is infinitely more attractive than anything offered in the Land of Fake Smiles. Many Thai universities charge tuition fees which are the same or even more than their counterparts in some Western nations. They are quite willing to expend billions of baht in building shiny Potemkin campuses, intended primarily to line someone’s pockets. Anyone who thinks that Thailand is uniformly "poor" should perhaps take a stroll through the staff and student car parks of any of the country's leading universities.

Edited September 11, 2005 by Rumpole

[kidtongue]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2005-09-11 10:14:19)

QUOTE

What would be the point in working in a far off land to your own country if you weren't paid compensation money?

Because I like the country and the attitude towards work, life and other things.

I took a significant drop in wages. I used to earn more in a day,15 years ago in the oil business, than I do in a week now, and much much happier. Come to Thailand for money, don't be silly.

I was talking about the point Tyree flamin' D was making about the difference in salaries between farangs and Thais.

It reads like you were/are successful and have money aside from your teacher salary, which makes your existence a little easier than only living off your teachers pay. Wouldn't you agree?

Full international schools pay international salary rates, if you're qualified you get the money. Simple equation qualified = decent salary.

tyree D unqualified as a teacher so he works in a school with low salaries for Thais and westerners. If he was fully qualified and worked in an international school his Thai counterpart would be on an equal salary! sure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not everyone wishes to teach in an international school, or indeed teach kids at all. There are many branches and sectors of education and the originator of this thread asked specifically about teaching at Thai universities. Whilst I take your point about unqualified teachers, let me assure you that "qualified = decent salary" is usually not the case in Thailand anywhere except the handful of real international schools.

The perennial plea of poverty offered by the Thais and some of their farang apologists simply will not wash. Universities in most other countries in the region, including some which are regarded as being considerably less developed than Thailand, manage to put together a package of salary, benefits and working conditions which is infinitely more attractive than anything offered in the Land of Fake Smiles. Many Thai universities charge tuition fees which are the same or even more than their counterparts in some Western nations. They are quite willing to expend billions of baht in building shiny Potemkin campuses, intended primarily to line someone’s pockets. Anyone who thinks that Thailand is uniformly "poor" should perhaps take a stroll through the staff and student car parks of any of the country's leading universities.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Something for everyone in this thread. There are a limited number of "international" schools (which, BTW, must take 50% Thai students - no enclaves here)(and most are British standard, not American) and yes, some enjoy teaching adults/university level because they want/need the intellectual exercise only to find out that the number of schools with adequate libraries is less than the digits on 1 hand and part of it is to blame on the informal education system which does the Thai ed tv which is unable to reach most Thais. Blame the military for that piece of work.

But those that perserve in a handicapped system are incredibly hard-working and deserve everyone's respect.

Yes, there are plenty of Thai teacher's driving new cars and plenty of good teachers who are not - who want to get married and stay and settle in, but are not encouraged to do so.

All teachers in Thailand should be paid better, as should nurses and doctors. So should the clerks at Tesco and Carrefour (@5,000 Baht/month).

What Thailand needs to understand about farang staff is that they need to make enough money to return home because there is a process underway in which all expats are slowly being invited to leave.

[BambinA]

There are so many valid reasons for farangs or Mr.International   to be paid more money than the locals, I was fowarding a different slant than the normal we have a better education.

hahahah.... is it you or me who lost in mind from Marijauna..!!

goshhh it is really blooding funny .. after i read your post , you make me LAUGH alot..and if i had Hemorrhoid , it'd explode as Little Boy from Hiroshima !!!

wow ..what's an arrogant you are...

Bambi

[kenkannif]

Funny maybe, but I don't think any of us would disagree with the statement (generally).

[Neeranam]

QUOTE

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2005-09-11 10:14:19)

QUOTE

What would be the point in working in a far off land to your own country if you weren't paid compensation money?

Because I like the country and the attitude towards work, life and other things.

I took a significant drop in wages. I used to earn more in a day,15 years ago in the oil business, than I do in a week now, and much much happier. Come to Thailand for money, don't be silly.

I was talking about the point Tyree flamin' D was making about the difference in salaries between farangs and Thais.

It reads like you were/are successful and have money aside from your teacher salary, which makes your existence a little easier than only living off your teachers pay. Wouldn't you agree?

Full international schools pay international salary rates, if you're qualified you get the money. Simple equation qualified = decent salary.

tyree D unqualified as a teacher so he works in a school with low salaries for Thais and westerners. If he was fully qualified and worked in an international school his Thai counterpart would be on an equal salary! sure.

I don't have any money aside from my teaching. I came to Thailand with 1000 pounds to my name and blew it in 3 weeks 13 years ago. I have around the same in the bank now.

I don't want to work in an international school. I was offered a job in ISR once but turned it down, despite the high salary. I don't like the typical international teacher.

Interacting with kids parents, bugger that. I teach uni 12 hours a week in 3 days and get the &lt;deleted&gt; out. I do a bit on the side to get my salary up a bit to enable me to have the odd holiday abroad.

I put my happiness well before money.

Edited September 12, 2005 by Neeranam

[GoodHeart]

  What Thailand needs to understand about farang staff is that they need to make enough money to return home because there is a process underway in which all expats are slowly being invited to leave.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Off topic:

This is turning into a very interesting thread, xenophobia and all. There is a remarkable arrogance I sense among certain Thai's that always makes me wonder from whence it came- they certainly don't seem to have 'developed' their enconomy or country enough to warrant such snobbery.

[sanook2me]

bam who?

There are so many valid reasons for farangs or Mr.International  to be paid more money than the locals, I was fowarding a different slant than the normal we have a better education.

hahahah.... is it you or me who lost in mind from Marijauna..!!

goshhh it is really blooding funny .. after i read your post , you make me LAUGH alot..and if i had Hemorrhoid , it'd explode as Little Boy from Hiroshima !!!

wow ..what's an arrogant you are...

Bambi 

??????

arrogance is not one of my virtues, if it reads like that you are mistaken and I apologise.....

Mr. international is a quote from one of Tyree D posts in another section about farangs... please go and read it to have a good laugh... its not me with the swaggering arrogance.... ok

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[sanook2me]

kidtongue

out that the number of schools with adequate libraries is less than the digits on 1 hand  and part of it is to blame on the informal education system

The school i worked at had a massive library full of great useful books 90% of them in english, the school was a primary school.... how many kids will benefit from the library????

It looked great and was a great selling point as the princess(sorry i don't know her name) she was larger one who came to open it....

Smoke and mirrors all the way.

---------------------

ps.

I loved my time in the LoS and teaching was good fun but I just wonder reading other posts that the burnt out feeling I had may not happen in other countries?

[Tyree D.]

Tyree

LMAO! BWAAAH. I need western food! I need to fly home! I'm not Thai and I will never be! It's too hot and I need more money because of this!

There are so many valid reasons for farangs or Mr.International to be paid more money than the locals, I was fowarding a different slant than the normal we have a better education.

Q&A time for you MR.Tyree flamin' D...

What food do you eat?

How often do you fly home?

How much air-con do you use?

Do you phone home?

What would be the point in working in a far off land to your own country if you weren't paid compensation money?

If you want to do that, go work for a charity mate !

I wasn't working for a charity I was teaching to make as much money as I could to have a decent life in the LoS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've always eaten Thai food. It is way more expensive in Los Angeles. I never fly home and I call about once every two months. I don't use a fan or air-condition. I like the heat.

Will you understand it's not about money. I used to work with teachers who have been teaching for over 10 years on the same salary and they got credentials to do something better and they don't.

Don't flame somebody whose actually satisfied with teaching and his salary. I am bringing positivity to this. And Mr. International has replaced the term "farang" when I walk by. They might still call you that, though.

and as for your "decent life in LoS", sorry you didn't make enough money to cover your beer and sex habit.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Tyree D.

[Neeranam]

[sanook2me]

and as for your "decent life in LoS", sorry you didn't make enough money to cover your beer and sex habit.

a bit off topic

The money I earnt and saved in 4 years was enough to keep me in beer and the girls who I wanted to share my life with..... I saved a grand a year in stirling and lead a very active social life.. drunk on tiger or leo most nights and jonny walker on the weekend...i lurved it.

I left teaching and the Los to come home to blighty to enter into uni to get a degree not in teaching but in computers and business.

Sure I had a decent life in thailand as meeting so many teachers in my short time I know my salary was better than most and this enabled me to save and have fun.

--------------------------------

not sure where this topic is going now...

------------------------------

Tyree i find it difficult to believe you don't use air-con or a fan, cum off it....

[Phil B]

This thread has taken a few turns from the OP. As far as farangs having a better education and need to be payed more money because of this, pure hog wash. Just because you may have a higher education dosent mean you can teach. Being a teacher can not be learned over night and no amount of education will change that.

It seems to me that if you dont like the pay or the job ... quit. The institution will be beter off without you. If you are only doing it for the money how much teaching are you really doing?

Of course some jobs are not desirable because of the hours and the pay. That is a simple fix, dont take that job. You will never get rich teaching unless your name starts with Dr.

Any idiot can stand infront of a class and babble but only a teacher can help them learn.

By the way BambinA if you ever have a Hemorrhoid can you post a warning so we can duck before it explodes.