Land Of Smiles? Have I Landed In The Wrong Country?

[surayu]

Where was the below photo taken?

A. Paris

B. London

C. NYC

D. Thailand

For as much nationalist one can be, i seriously doubt anyone would go as far to stick a whole case of Singha water bottles in his suitcase to bring in the west did i won anything?

[samran]

Surayu,

We are talking about two different things here.

The OP is wondering why he's not getting the sort of Siamese Disneyland experience where no one is ever sad and unhappy, or god forbid 'normal' in the Magic Kingdom. For that I suggest he take an official tour to North Korea where everyone is always happy in the workers paradise. About the only place you'll get that experience now days.

As for what you describe, well to me it sounds like you've married into an extended family of rude freeloaders -probably country bumpkins - who don't know any better. You yourself have become a doormat. No culturally sensitive rocket science there.

To imply in a thread like this that they are representative of the broader thai community is plain wrong.

There is a central tenant of politeness and manners in thailand called 'mal-ar-yart'. Most thai's in social situations like to think they have a bit of this, even if only outwardly.

Your family clearly don't have it, if they ever did. Start throwing around the comment that they 'mai mee mal-ar-yart' won't make you popular but it will stop them in their tracks.

[bermondburi]

the voice of sanity, that's what I meant but probably couldn't express so well. THANKYOU

Right, i am back again, this time to represent the voice of the "insanes" apparently, arr arrrr you might all say "who cares" if they don't smile, "who cares" if they don't do this or that, however, someone, presumably the "insanes" (i am one ), see this as a sign of things going in the wrong direction, you can close yourself in your own world and be happy without "associating" with anyone, refusing any sort of contacts and stick to your more basic needs, but the problem is that this attitude we are receiving, the feeling that there is no need to be kind or show kindness to other, is just the beginning that will lead to an even more selfish and rude society, it doesn't cost much to be at least polite, especially when there is no need to bite the hands that are feeding you, if we don't act somehow to re-establish "good manners", show the value of them (more and more are thinking that they are just a waste of time....)we will soon reach an even worse levels of contact between the parts, were violence might be the response of choice, i give importance to other people feelings and what might be the reason behind their actions, as i say, often there is no real reason behind this bad attitude apart from being ignorant and refusing to see the comsequences of behaving in a bad way, they seems to be worry to appear somehow "weak" in showing love other than hate and not the (bad) superman/woman they want us to believe they are, all the experience accumulated during the years by growing up doesn't seem to bring any benefits to some people....

If you had read my original post you would have heard me say that I find Thai people very friendly on the whole and when I am walking around with my kids I'm always getting stopped to have a chat and things like that. I never said that I think Thai people are smiling less now than before. I just mean that it really doesn't mean anything to me whether people are smiling or not. A total stranger is smiling at you, IME these are the people you want to watch out for, especially in Asia. People have got shit to do in there everyday lives and they are busy, same as any other country.

Grow a spine !!

" oh that girl in the shop didn't smile at me " who GAF !!

[bermondburi]

a sign of things going in the wrong direction, you can close yourself in your own world and be happy without "associating" with anyone, refusing any sort of contacts and stick to your more basic needs, but the problem is that this attitude we are receiving, the feeling that there is no need to be kind or show kindness to other, is just the beginning that will lead to an even more selfish and rude society

Agreed. The kind of cold, selfish, greedy, miserable and soulless attitude that seems has become the norm in the West is apparently at this point a global phenomenon...(?) Is this the kind of society we want to live in?

I've been in Thailand quite a few years now and I'm quite happily settled down here, and you're talking like there was some kind of " golden age " where everybody took the time to ask how everybody else is and we were all smiling at each other with love in our hearts. Now this may be true in the middle of woop woop and to be honest I don't think much has changed in the villages at all. In actual fact , anywhere outside of tourist areas IMO and things are pretty much exactly the same. Learn the language and Thais are very friendly people, but some are friendlier than others. Just the same as in the UK you get people who are friendly to outsiders and people who aren't.

Maybe it is you who have changed and now you are just more cynical after X number of years living here.

Some people are happy and some people are miserable, Fact the world over.

[bermondburi]

the voice of sanity, that's what I meant but probably couldn't express so well. THANKYOU

Right, i am back again, this time to represent the voice of the "insanes" apparently, arr arrrr you might all say "who cares" if they don't smile, "who cares" if they don't do this or that, however, someone, presumably the "insanes" (i am one ), see this as a sign of things going in the wrong direction, you can close yourself in your own world and be happy without "associating" with anyone, refusing any sort of contacts and stick to your more basic needs, but the problem is that this attitude we are receiving, the feeling that there is no need to be kind or show kindness to other, is just the beginning that will lead to an even more selfish and rude society, it doesn't cost much to be at least polite, especially when there is no need to bite the hands that are feeding you, if we don't act somehow to re-establish "good manners", show the value of them (more and more are thinking that they are just a waste of time....)we will soon reach an even worse levels of contact between the parts, were violence might be the response of choice, i give importance to other people feelings and what might be the reason behind their actions, as i say, often there is no real reason behind this bad attitude apart from being ignorant and refusing to see the comsequences of behaving in a bad way, they seems to be worry to appear somehow "weak" in showing love other than hate and not the (bad) superman/woman they want us to believe they are, all the experience accumulated during the years by growing up doesn't seem to bring any benefits to some people....

I seriously live in a different Thailand to many people on this forum. The one I live in is nothing like the one you describe.

I would suggest - not going to tourist areas, learn to speak Thai (properly) and frankly, understand that in the culture it is perfectly normal that in certain situations (including shock horror, eating at a restaurant) interactions are often hurried and abrupt. It may be unfriendly, but it is part of living in Asia. It seems insulting, but mostly it is not.

For me, 'real Thai's' are actually initially quite suspicious of people they don't know. But you go back to a place repeatedly, show a bit of loyalty (as long as say you get what you need from that store owner) and even the most sour Thai-Chinese matriarch in the shop house is putty in your hands.

For me personally, if someone in Thailand who I didn't know was fawning over me, I'd suspect something was up and my bullsh!t detector goes into overdrive.

If you approach life in Thailand that way, you don't become disappointed.

yet again, I find myself agreeing with everything you say.

[surayu]

Grow a spine !!

" oh that girl in the shop didn't smile at me " who GAF !!

But my "spine" grow (in mysterious ways) bigger when the girl in the shop smiles at me, it must to be one of those catch 22 kind of situations

[bermondburi]

it is part of living in Asia. It seems insulting, but mostly it is not.

Right, i am aware of the fact that having been inculcated with western values and ways to see a particular action or situation on a certain way rather than another, i try to not to fall victim of preconceived ideas that might not necessarely be wrong or right, so i will add some more specific examples, in the west, if you are trespassing other people private properties without their comsent or them even knowing about it, or people coming into your house without asking permission without even aknowledging your presence there and helping theirselfes on everything around, including your fridge but not only that, it is not seen as something ...."desirable", here in LOS apparently that's perfectly ok, especially in remote not "touristy" areas, and i might even reconsidere the way we see this, but then, why and i would reiterate why, if i do the same, as a foreigner, soon i am challenged in what i am doing and get a very unfriendly and negative reaction from the very same people from whom these way to behave should be the norm? 1+1= 1 ?

Note: ehhmm don't worry if i will ever be around your fridge, i am not used to this sort of lifestyle, i just kind of "tested" the genuinity of the actions of some locals, that's all, i am finding out my owns truths, in a rather dangerous way.......

Edit: spelling again

LOL You wonder why it is when you walk into someones house and start helping yourself to their stuff you get an unfriendly and negative reaction. I'll tell you why:

BECAUSE IT'S REALLY fuc_kING RUDE !!

You must be a pushover sir because if someone came into my house and started doing that then they would get a NEGATIVE REACTION from me.

Stand up for yourself and if you're not happy about something then do something about it.

[bermondburi]

Grow a spine !!

" oh that girl in the shop didn't smile at me " who GAF !!

But my "spine" grow (in mysterious ways) bigger when the girl in the shop smiles at me, it must to be one of those catch 22 kind of situations

got to laugh at that !! heh, if she doesn't smile you can always buy a magazine !

[surayu]

You yourself have become a doormat. No culturally sensitive rocket science there.

they would be all walking with sore feet if i would, i don't think that to try to adapt to other cultures/way of life could be described as becoming a "doormat", as i say, if those people practising trespassing/freeloads were happy to receive what they were "giving", for me it was not a problem in accepting that, even if in the end they would still be the people getting more value back as you could imagine, but this was not the case, many of these individuals are simply villagers and not family related at all, however the family got theyr own "jewels" to be proud of too , all they are interested in is getting whatever benefit they can from you, even if something is so blatantly wrong and damaging, they don't care, that's surreal because they are not even clever enough to keep the "golden eggs hen" alive, they are all up for a chicken soup now, nevermind if tomorrow they don't have anything to survive on..... unfortunately to be sure about other people good intentions sometime you need to be up to some (very limited) damage, i haven't got a chrystal ball handy where i can immediately see whom deserve respect and whom don't, i don't feel "inferior" if i hold the door open to some complite stranger, just being what everybody should be i think, if however the person doesn't even say thanks or smile in appreciating the courtesy i automatically understand that next time i am in the same situation and with the same person, i would not hold open or even stop a door that slam on his face, not my problem anymore, in the city i noticed that soooo many people are simply not interested in manners, witnessing personally "accidents" that should have been easily avoided, or they all had some previous issues whom really knows?....

I don't think to be the only person having experiences like that in Thailand, i did read many other similar and even worse stories from other members, but i am glad to read there are other better stories happening too, let's stay on focus and try to avoid what might hurt us, pretending it doesn't exists or hideing it only plays in favour of them

[surayu]

got to laugh at that !! heh, if she doesn't smile you can always buy a magazine !

Really? where do they sell these smileing magazines? it must be something new from TAT, amazing Thailand !

[surayu]

LOL You wonder why it is when you walk into someones house and start helping yourself to their stuff you get an unfriendly and negative reaction. I'll tell you why:

BECAUSE IT'S REALLY fuc_kING RUDE !!

You must be a pushover sir because if someone came into my house and started doing that then they would get a NEGATIVE REACTION from me.

Stand up for yourself and if you're not happy about something then do something about it.

Look here it's not Bermondsey, let's have an insight into cultural adaptation, shouldn't we? there are many differencies between the west and the east and even an apparently meaningless gesture might be highly offensive for the other, there is no need for it, let's keep that in mind, in the end, even if you might still prefere your very direct approach what they will get is the same, one less person to count on when more serious needs arises, and i see quite a fews of them ending up badly already.....

[bermondburi]

got to laugh at that !! heh, if she doesn't smile you can always buy a magazine !

Really? where do they sell these smileing magazines? it must be something new from TAT, amazing Thailand !

you've never seen a smiling magazine !!? TAT's latest idea to replace the no longer smiling Thai people !

[bermondburi]

LOL You wonder why it is when you walk into someones house and start helping yourself to their stuff you get an unfriendly and negative reaction. I'll tell you why:

BECAUSE IT'S REALLY fuc_kING RUDE !!

You must be a pushover sir because if someone came into my house and started doing that then they would get a NEGATIVE REACTION from me.

Stand up for yourself and if you're not happy about something then do something about it.

Look here it's not Bermondsey, let's have an insight into cultural adaptation, shouldn't we? there are many differencies between the west and the east and even an apparently meaningless gesture might be highly offensive for the other, there is no need for it, let's keep that in mind, in the end, even if you might still prefere your very direct approach what they will get is the same, one less person to count on when more serious needs arises, and i see quite a fews of them ending up badly already.....

What we're talking about here is freeloaders ( not family related ) as you admitted in a previous post. If you want to stop the rot then you need to do something about it. If telling someone they're out of order for raiding your fridge / house / etc is out of order and telling that person not to do it again is very direct then so be it. What else are you supposed to do. Hope they pick up on your " telepathic vibes " . Doesn't matter where you are ( within reason ) , if someone is out of line then they are out of line and if you don't do something about it they will continue to take the piss. Same rules apply. Thais can be just as direct as you found out when you experienced a negative reaction for doing to them what they are doing to you. Stand up for yourself !!

[deejah]

Surayu,

We are talking about two different things here.

The OP is wondering why he's not getting the sort of Siamese Disneyland experience where no one is ever sad and unhappy, or god forbid 'normal' in the Magic Kingdom. For that I suggest he take an official tour to North Korea where everyone is always happy in the workers paradise. About the only place you'll get that experience now days.

As for what you describe, well to me it sounds like you've married into an extended family of rude freeloaders -probably country bumpkins - who don't know any better. You yourself have become a doormat. No culturally sensitive rocket science there.

To imply in a thread like this that they are representative of the broader thai community is plain wrong.

There is a central tenant of politeness and manners in thailand called 'mal-ar-yart'. Most thai's in social situations like to think they have a bit of this, even if only outwardly.

Your family clearly don't have it, if they ever did. Start throwing around the comment that they 'mai mee mal-ar-yart' won't make you popular but it will stop them in their tracks.

this members writings should be required readings for many a farang

thanks so much samran

i look forward to further education by you

cheers

[mca]

or people coming into your house without asking permission without even aknowledging your presence there and helping theirselfes on everything around, including your fridge

I certainly hope you're referring to the contents of your fridge and not the appliance itself. Christ that would be funny. A couple of jikoh strolling in, unplugging the fridge and just manhandling it out the door as you sit there.

[surayu]

I certainly hope you're referring to the contents of your fridge and not the appliance itself. Christ that would be funny. A couple of jikoh strolling in, unplugging the fridge and just manhandling it out the door as you sit there.

Yes that would be fun i guess the only reason they didn't try any such things yet is simply because they seriously believe if something makes them tired or it's simply not "sanook" to do it, then they wouldn't do it......now that we have clarified that, do not dare to let them see the funny side of it all

[bermondburi]

I certainly hope you're referring to the contents of your fridge and not the appliance itself. Christ that would be funny. A couple of jikoh strolling in, unplugging the fridge and just manhandling it out the door as you sit there.

Yes that would be fun i guess the only reason they didn't try any such things yet is simply because they seriously believe if something makes them tired or it's simply not "sanook" to do it, then they wouldn't do it......now that we have clarified that, do not dare to let them see the funny side of it all

get a bigger fridge, they might be reading this !!

[drronnie]

The Thai smile disappeared down the pan some years ago and was replaced by jealousy and greed.

Watch a couple of Thai soaps on Thai TV and see the real Thailand.

Hmmm.... are you insisting that soap operas reflect the real Thailand?

[deejah]

i think someone may have tried to say here:

economy politics whatever, the thais will find a way to party dance smile and have a good time

i will give away a private secret i learned by accident

you want smiles and attention from thais?

buy spicy somtom from a street seller

thais absolutely love it!!!!!

if you want more attention, walk down the street eating it

they will not leave you alone

eat and buy like a thai

especially issan food

if the thais see it

they will make friends with you right away

maybe its just me but it is charming how much sweet attention i get

and of course speak some thai

thais are very proud of their food language culture

and they will love you for it

economy escronomy

politics schmolitics

exports schxmports

who cares if you've got 30 baht and just bought some spicy somtom

oh and something else

buy a small gift or food for a local thai you know or see at your place of residence or wherever, you want to see a big smile????

My Thai phooying - with the nice vertical smile - was dining on spicy somtam for quite a while. She was so happy to see my horizontal smile, that she began kissing - in Pattaya style. "Thank you Buddha" I thought will glee "my pooying sueay has warmed up to me" My thoughts soon changed to "lawn mak mak" I raised my voice, and she never came back.

here hear

[surayu]

My Thai phooying - with the nice vertical smile - was dining on spicy somtam for quite a while. She was so happy to see my horizontal smile, that she began kissing - in Pattaya style. "Thank you Buddha" I thought will glee "my pooying sueay has warmed up to me" My thoughts soon changed to "lawn mak mak" I raised my voice, and she never came back.

here hear

"...and all of a sudden i kind of discovered that the world contains many more people than i previously thought "

Edit: ....grammar

Edited January 15, 2011 by surayu

[JimsKnight]

I'm in Chiang Mai too and what a load of horse manure.

I lived in Chiang Mai too dude, and agree on that

[Fookhaht]

Stay out of Pattaya and lower Suhkumvit and you'll run in to it a bit more often.

Exactly.

As far as the "Land of Smiles" goes, there's a lot more "land" than the two areas mentioned!

Try Isaan, where people can't help themselves, smiling at strangers.

[IanForbes]

Is this the official complainers thread? I just scratched the cornea on my eye by trying to take off my rose coloured glasses that were still sitting on the table.

[pjclark1]

Which part of Thailand are you in? Any examples?

I'm in Chiang Mai.

Overall, I see a lot more long faces around than I would have hoped... Waiters / waitresses, shop girls, people on the street. Some people are pleasant but they are definitely in the minority. Many are indifferent at best and some are downright hostile in their attitude. I take it many are sick of foreign tourists... Not too hospitable. The difference between tourist areas and more local thai areas appears to be negligible...

I find loads of friendly people in ChiangMai, Thai and foreigners.

Very few hostile people and those are almost always the younger white men.

Edited January 16, 2011 by pjclark1

[jdinasia]

The OP joined in July of 2009, makes his first trip in Dec 2010, but has 155 posts?

[StreetCowboy]

The OP joined in July of 2009, makes his first trip in Dec 2010, but has 155 posts?

Is that a question or a statement.

?

And I'm afraid, for the slow-witted amongst us, you may need to explain what conclusion that is relevant to this thread you expect us to draw from that statement, fo rthe benefit of us half-wits

Thanks in advance,

SC

Anticipation is the better part of so many things, is it not? I bet he wishes he had joined sooner, that he could have got more out of his trip

[Thongkorn]

Thailand is like every where else , the recession is starting to bite, Rice has gone up in price so the poor people suffer again, and so on up the food chain. I think you forgot that old Thai saying". Money number one" , but even thats gone down now because there are not so many tourist from the west , Japanese, Indian Korean , all stay together in Organized party's, unlike the kiniow Russians who will skin a fart for a baht.

[KeyserSoze01]

They smile more and are a lot more pleasant than most people in Western countries.

True. Try smiling at someone in the US these days. You might get pepper sprayed if lucky. Tasered if not so lucky and bound to wind up on the Most Wanted list for crimes against humanity.

[KeyserSoze01]

Thais can be just as direct as you found out when you experienced a negative reaction for doing to them what they are doing to you. Stand up for yourself !!

Yeah, right. And the next thing you know your banged up, shot by your wife's "brother" or shown the door because "you no understand Thai way".

All part of the reasons why I will continue to visit the Kingdom, but will not call it home. To many idiots for my peace of mind.

I have to agree with you though. If someone, extended family or not, decided to just help themselves to my belongings, there would be at the least a verbal exchange and warning the first time. After that, it's foot-up-the-azz time. Probably a good thing I don't live in Thailand as I would hate to get shot by an in-law.

[craigt3365]

They smile more and are a lot more pleasant than most people in Western countries.

True. Try smiling at someone in the US these days. You might get pepper sprayed if lucky. Tasered if not so lucky and bound to wind up on the Most Wanted list for crimes against humanity.

Wow...just got back from a 5 week visit. Smiled a lot and all I got in return was another smile! Dang, and look at what I missed out on!