Cbr 250 Vs Ninja 250

[thaicbr]

I agree that finding a safe road (maybe impossible here in Thailand) or going to the track is an ideal way of increasing all-round skills. I wish that i had some time on the track myself.

Then i would not have bolloxed up my VX800 due to a stupid mistake due to not enough riding time on said bike

(eh: being a fairly novice rider)

You are lucky to live so close to Thailand Circuit!

No doubt had you had a chance to take your VX there to get used to her and learn how she handles you would not have suffered that crash on our ride to Petchabun.

(It's quite amazing the number of people I know who have crashed their bikes within the first 1000km or less of ownership.)

Ride On!

Tony

I agree.. either when she's back on the road or when i get a new bike i'm going down to TC to practice.. I hope you will have time to join me and give me some pointers.

I know for a fact i will be nervous on right hand bends

[BigBikeBKK]

I ve noticed this with Tony several times in previous posts. He is when comparing stuff just bending it the way it fits the best. Definately dont take in all what this forum member is saying and belive it.

The comments on your driving dave_boo and from the outside, or someone just reading over the forum and it definately looks like a malicious attempt at a personal attack. Not nice. Actually disgusting and only could come from a person.. or a rider that thinks very highly of himself. ....

Nasty is the word I ll call it.

Silly hypocrite, compared to ThunderMouth I'm gentle as a kitten

Happy Trails!

T

[BigBikeBKK]

I agree that finding a safe road (maybe impossible here in Thailand) or going to the track is an ideal way of increasing all-round skills. I wish that i had some time on the track myself.

Then i would not have bolloxed up my VX800 due to a stupid mistake due to not enough riding time on said bike

(eh: being a fairly novice rider)

You are lucky to live so close to Thailand Circuit!

No doubt had you had a chance to take your VX there to get used to her and learn how she handles you would not have suffered that crash on our ride to Petchabun.

(It's quite amazing the number of people I know who have crashed their bikes within the first 1000km or less of ownership.)

Ride On!

Tony

I agree.. either when she's back on the road or when i get a new bike i'm going down to TC to practice.. I hope you will have time to join me and give me some pointers.

I know for a fact i will be nervous on right hand bends

Cheers Mate,

Let me know when you're back on two wheels we'll hook up at Thailand Circuit then!

Excellent track for training and practice as it's not very high speed and has a lot more turns than BIRA.

Ride On!

Tony

[bobbin]

So was post made without knowledge of events or was it a malicious attempt at a personal attack?

Dave, we've known each other for a few years now and I really do hope you don't take my constructive criticism of your riding as a "malicious attempt at a personal attack".

Riding motorcycles is dangerous. You've got a wife and a child. Riding in Thailand is DANGEROUS.

Can you imagine going from this-

Peace bro! :jap:

T

Tony

No doubt at all that you were taking a shot at Dave....

Posting the above photo in your response is just icing the cake.

I was here on the forum when the above incident happened. You criticised Dave's riding then and posted the same photo.

I believe I responded to the effect that comments like that were best reserved for a quiet word with the person involved, rather than posting in a public forum. That is still my opinion.

You also have a wife and child, so how do you justify your own riding style in Thailand? Riding bikes anywhere is dangerous. In terms of risk of bodily injury/death, motorcycling has to be near the top of any recreational activity.

You have over 20+ years of riding you say. I have 40+ years of riding experience. That said, you might indeed be a better rider than I. But by what measure? The ability to go around a track in a shorter period of time or by real world criteria? No crashes or injuries for me. Can you say the same? And in another 20 years, when you have the same number of years under your butt that I do now, will you still be crash/injury free if you are now? ( I really hope I didn't just jinx myself...or you.)

After you mentioned Keith Code's video, I got a copy to watch. Found out that, although I have never been a track racer, I already have learned and practice many of his techniques. Trial and error. Old school....

Your response to my request for ABS experience proves that you can contribute quality input on the forum, as do your trip reports. The videos you post showing you rocketing down the highway at high speed are, however, an advertisement for unsafe riding. Dressing them up with statements about your riding prowess doesn't make them any less dangerous. Perhaps you should start adding a disclaimer to the effect "Just because I am crazy enough to ride like this doesn't mean you should."

I'm sure you have heard the old saying...

There are old riders and there are bold riders. But there are no old, bold riders.

You are a self-promoter, Tony. I guess we who have been on the forum for awhile have gotten used to that, but try to be a bit more gracious. You make more friends that way.

Added thought..

Sometimes you are more gracious. But it's usually when you are trying to back away from some of your less thought-out posts.

[BigBikeBKK]

So was post made without knowledge of events or was it a malicious attempt at a personal attack?

Dave, we've known each other for a few years now and I really do hope you don't take my constructive criticism of your riding as a "malicious attempt at a personal attack".

Riding motorcycles is dangerous. You've got a wife and a child. Riding in Thailand is DANGEROUS.

Can you imagine going from this-

Peace bro! :jap:

T

Tony

No doubt at all that you were taking a shot at Dave....

Posting the above photo in your response is just icing the cake.

I was here on the forum when the above incident happened. You criticised Dave's riding then and posted the same photo.

I believe I responded to the effect that comments like that were best reserved for a quiet word with the person involved, rather than posting in a public forum. That is still my opinion.

You also have a wife and child, so how do you justify your own riding style in Thailand? Riding bikes anywhere is dangerous. In terms of risk of bodily injury/death, motorcycling has to be near the top of any recreational activity.

You have over 20+ years of riding you say. I have 40+ years of riding experience. That said, you might indeed be a better rider than I. But by what measure? The ability to go around a track in a shorter period of time or by real world criteria? No crashes or injuries for me. Can you say the same? And in another 20 years, when you have the same number of years under your butt that I do now, will you still be crash/injury free if you are now? ( I really hope I didn't just jinx myself...or you.)

After you mentioned Keith Code's video, I got a copy to watch. Found out that, although I have never been a track racer, I already have learned and practice many of his techniques. Trial and error. Old school....

Your response to my request for ABS experience proves that you can contribute quality input on the forum, as do your trip reports. The videos you post showing you rocketing down the highway at high speed are, however, an advertisement for unsafe riding. Dressing them up with statements about your riding prowess doesn't make them any less dangerous. Perhaps you should start adding a disclaimer to the effect "Just because I am crazy enough to ride like this doesn't mean you should."

I'm sure you have heard the old saying...

There are old riders and there are bold riders. But there are no old, bold riders.

You are a self-promoter, Tony. I guess we who have been on the forum for awhile have gotten used to that, but try to be a bit more gracious. You make more friends that way.

Added thought..

Sometimes you are more gracious. But it's usually when you are trying to back away from some of your less thought-out posts.

Dear Bobbin,

If you're going to quote me, please quote the ENTIRE sentence:

I've been riding motorcycles for 20+ years and am still learning how to ride.

(emphasis added)

I'm neither the most experienced nor the most skilled rider out there by a LONG shot and I have never claimed to be any kind of expert on the art of motorcycling.

Oh, and FYI, I do have a son and another on the way, but I got rid of the harpy wife a couple years ago- good riddance!

I am not on ThaiVisa to "make friends"... Are you???

I've met some cool people on this forum but they are far outnumbered by the wanke_rs and trolls. Tis the nature of most online forums.

FWIW I think that picture is funny as hell. I didn't take it BTW- that's me in the khaki pants on the right helping Dave get his Ninja out of the ditch.

Did I hurt Dave's feelings? He's pretty thick skinned and I believe he understands the concept of "taking the piss"...

But Dave, if my posts are cruel and insensitive and crossed over the line I apologize bro. No harm intended but feel free to deck me next time we meet. :jap:

Thank goodness you have brave keyboard warriors like Bobbin standing up to defend you!

Dave learned a lot from that accident and has become a safer and smoother rider as a result. If we don't learn from our mistakes we are destined to repeat them, no?

Bobbin says: "Perhaps you should start adding a disclaimer to the effect "Just because I am crazy enough to ride like this doesn't mean you should.""

<deleted> man, aren't we all adults here and responsible for our own actions?!

Agree with you 100% and have said many times on this forum- "There are old riders and there are bold riders. But there are very few old, bold riders."

Ride On!

Tony

[snowflake]

Ok here I go...

Tony poked Daves riding skills, Bobbin poked Tony's inflated ego, Thunderbird poked my/our beloved CBR, and everyone had a serious go at Thunderbird...

Dave, I blame you- I don't know you,but seriously- I will buy you a beer if I meet you since you manage to take over the whole thread without trying (good work)...

Now, if we can all be grownups- we should get back on track which should be talking about the CBR...

I love it, and the more I ride it, the more I like it!

Thunderbird, Tony, Bobbin, I have only ridden for 13 years, but I am a very safe and good rider- Speed is something that does not interest me (now that is a lie!!!)...

I have no doubt that it is fun to hit that 300kmph on the highway- safe, nope, but fun... H---ll yes!! Then again, letting Thais out on the rode with no proper training is not safe either, so maybe everyone is at fault?

Thunderbird, before the CBR was launched- you complained a lot about the branding of the bike, not a true CBR... Questions- how many CBR's have you had? What is the criteria of calling a bike CBR?

Bobbin, claiming you have 40 years of riding experience does nothing for me, just make you sound silly, and that you are bragging...

All in all, we are only as good as the weakest link, that may be the rider, the bike or the 18 wheeler that run over us. Family and friends, Valentino Rossi or Snowflake, you will move into the next life...

Let us be friends, ride together, banter and have friendly conversations. Inform and educate, help each other to go home to our family (if you have one) in the evening after a nice ride together...

[thaicbr]

Wow.. Snowflake ..... nice read.. and what are your thoughts on the red/yellow dilemma that we have in Thailand ????????

Na just joking

CBR250 2011

YEAH BABY

[snowflake]

I will support the red since they are more likely to buy me a new ducati or MVAugusta- have you guys seen the new pipes???

CBR- lovely little runaround...

Ps. I meant the bike CBR, not the person CBR...

[thaicbr]

I will support the red since they are more likely to buy me a new ducati or MVAugusta- have you guys seen the new pipes???

CBR- lovely little runaround...

Ps. I meant the bike CBR, not the person CBR...

Well i can be as well but only for the right person ( and that person has to be female)

[mbox]

Dave , 3 years or 30000km warranty on Tiger Bikes made since 2008 .

while performance & price wise it may be compared with the CBR 150R ...the only naked Bike available new & legal, in the below 650 cc & above 200cc class i know of is the Boxer 250RS....do you know any other??? Those who buy the Boxer 250Rs do not want a sportsbike or a sportish looking thumper .

While the attention to detail may be inconsistent at times but for the materials used i don't believe there are shortcuts being made . So yes , the Boxer is not same as a Japanese Bike , but it is a thai designed thai made quality bike that does the job.

The Boxer is giving quite a few people surprises as it feels& performs quite a bit stronger than the Hp claims and is fit for touring and does pretty well on hills handles great on tight curves...perfect allround machine with great seating position.

what is the pleasure in riding ??? For one it is the need for speed for others it is good torque &handling a good comfy position to do distance . I prefer the handling torque and the good seating position which are brought from the Boxer.

The Boxer being a simple low tech machine about any shop can fix it ( even those mechanics from yamaha, honda, suzuki can) , yes even in the sticks they can.Some of the parts even interchange from Honda Bikes

I think tony meant the price difference of 20-30k between the cbr 250 & the Boxer 250 which it is ( boxer 250 is 72000 thb , cbr 250 is 100.000 )

happy trails,

mbox

Good news about the warranty; from having informally tracked the warranty claims here and on the Tiger forum it seems that after the initial setup there has been few claims...but the peace of mind that a 3 year warranty brings can not be overstated.

The "a fit and finish that is well below the Japanese standards" comment was not intended to impugn the quality of kit on the bike, but rather a simple observation. As you've agreed the Boxer is of similar performance specs to the CBR 150R and of comparable price and yet the attention to detail is being neglected and does not help the brand out.

I honestly think that is a one of the major considerations that play into people's decision NOT to buy a Tiger. If Tiger could get their attention to detail up and roll out a highly visible wide distribution network which would perform authorised repairs (does Somchai in the village working on your Tiger invalidate the warranty?) then the company would quickly find that orders would start rolling in.

Tony's arguments are strange to me, sometimes he compares two things and then takes one of those things, at a different variable, and compares it to something else. I.E., he compared the reported maximum prices of the CBR to the Ninja and then compared the MSRP of the CBR to the Boxer....my riposte was that if he was going to use the ~120K THB price for the CBR than he should have said that the Boxer is ~50K THB cheaper than the CBR.

Dave, the local somchai working on a Tiger does not invalidate warranty , sure it depends on the case really...but we talking regular maintenance or repairs which sure is fine. If you ask your local somchai to tune your bike and if that than creates problems that maybe a different story.

mbox

[cdnvic]

I deleted a bunch of posts that amounted to a silly argument that was derailing the topic (and some responses). I'll leave it at that for now but if it resumes all participants will find themselves sidelined for awhile.

[dave_boo]

Dear Bobbin,

If you're going to quote me, please quote the ENTIRE sentence:

I've been riding motorcycles for 20+ years and am still learning how to ride.

(emphasis added)

I'm neither the most experienced nor the most skilled rider out there by a LONG shot and I have never claimed to be any kind of expert on the art of motorcycling.

Oh, and FYI, I do have a son and another on the way, but I got rid of the harpy wife a couple years ago- good riddance!

I am not on ThaiVisa to "make friends"... Are you???

I've met some cool people on this forum but they are far outnumbered by the wanke_rs and trolls. Tis the nature of most online forums.

FWIW I think that picture is funny as hell. I didn't take it BTW- that's me in the khaki pants on the right helping Dave get his Ninja out of the ditch.

Did I hurt Dave's feelings? He's pretty thick skinned and I believe he understands the concept of "taking the piss"...

But Dave, if my posts are cruel and insensitive and crossed over the line I apologize bro. No harm intended but feel free to deck me next time we meet. :jap:

Thank goodness you have brave keyboard warriors like Bobbin standing up to defend you!

Dave learned a lot from that accident and has become a safer and smoother rider as a result. If we don't learn from our mistakes we are destined to repeat them, no?

Bobbin says: "Perhaps you should start adding a disclaimer to the effect "Just because I am crazy enough to ride like this doesn't mean you should.""

<deleted> man, aren't we all adults here and responsible for our own actions?!

Agree with you 100% and have said many times on this forum- "There are old riders and there are bold riders. But there are very few old, bold riders."

Ride On!

Tony

Violence is the providence of the weak minded. And while there is absolutely no doubt that I could 'whup your arse', I am going to once again choose to let the facts speak for themselves...something that was lost in these last couple of pages.

The spurious charge of 'keyboard warrior' is quite hilarious proceeding from the computer of someone who refuse to contest empirical data and resorts to 'oh the CBR is a beginner's bike and Dave crashed his bike before---look at me look at me I've got pictures!---so the CBR will be better for him and by extension the Ninja, which Dave crashed, is a better bike. I've actually defended you to several board members, active and gone from here, who've said the same thing about apparently how often your fingers get ahead of your brain. I'm an idiot who believes that everyone is inherently 'good' and just sometimes makes mistakes; are you an exception?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

That's not the posting of a man interested in discussion; that's a juvenile attempt at fanboi-ism.

If you want to take the piss start a new thread; I will sling the mud back and we'll be a happy dysfunctional family. Is it terribly hard to remain on track with the current thread?

[BigBikeBKK]

Dear Bobbin,

If you're going to quote me, please quote the ENTIRE sentence:

I've been riding motorcycles for 20+ years and am still learning how to ride.

(emphasis added)

I'm neither the most experienced nor the most skilled rider out there by a LONG shot and I have never claimed to be any kind of expert on the art of motorcycling.

Oh, and FYI, I do have a son and another on the way, but I got rid of the harpy wife a couple years ago- good riddance!

I am not on ThaiVisa to "make friends"... Are you???

I've met some cool people on this forum but they are far outnumbered by the wanke_rs and trolls. Tis the nature of most online forums.

FWIW I think that picture is funny as hell. I didn't take it BTW- that's me in the khaki pants on the right helping Dave get his Ninja out of the ditch.

Did I hurt Dave's feelings? He's pretty thick skinned and I believe he understands the concept of "taking the piss"...

But Dave, if my posts are cruel and insensitive and crossed over the line I apologize bro. No harm intended but feel free to deck me next time we meet. :jap:

Thank goodness you have brave keyboard warriors like Bobbin standing up to defend you!

Dave learned a lot from that accident and has become a safer and smoother rider as a result. If we don't learn from our mistakes we are destined to repeat them, no?

Bobbin says: "Perhaps you should start adding a disclaimer to the effect "Just because I am crazy enough to ride like this doesn't mean you should.""

<deleted> man, aren't we all adults here and responsible for our own actions?!

Agree with you 100% and have said many times on this forum- "There are old riders and there are bold riders. But there are very few old, bold riders."

Ride On!

Tony

Violence is the providence of the weak minded. And while there is absolutely no doubt that I could 'whup your arse', I am going to once again choose to let the facts speak for themselves...something that was lost in these last couple of pages.

The spurious charge of 'keyboard warrior' is quite hilarious proceeding from the computer of someone who refuse to contest empirical data and resorts to 'oh the CBR is a beginner's bike and Dave crashed his bike before---look at me look at me I've got pictures!---so the CBR will be better for him and by extension the Ninja, which Dave crashed, is a better bike. I've actually defended you to several board members, active and gone from here, who've said the same thing about apparently how often your fingers get ahead of your brain. I'm an idiot who believes that everyone is inherently 'good' and just sometimes makes mistakes; are you an exception?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

That's not the posting of a man interested in discussion; that's a juvenile attempt at fanboi-ism.

If you want to take the piss start a new thread; I will sling the mud back and we'll be a happy dysfunctional family. Is it terribly hard to remain on track with the current thread?

Dear Dave,

I apologize again if my "taking the piss" went too far. Like Allan said, I often whack out a post and hit send before thinking much about what I've written. I don't take myself seriously and I hope you don't either!

I actually think we're not so far apart on this one. You've told us many times what a loyal fan you are of Brand H, and until I came to Thailand I was a pretty loyal Honda man myself, going from Honda Hurricane 600 to CBR 600 to CBR 600F2. It's only when I moved to Thailand and left my CBR behind in Japan that I had to reassess and due to the ridiculous price of imported bikes in this country I decided to give Kawasaki a try as they still represent unbeatable value for money in Thailand.

That said, if I were back in the US I'd probably still be on a Honda.

I know that you were very happy with your CBR 150 and from your posts you sound happy with the specs and reviews of the new CBR 150 and new CBR 250.

So, considering your love for all things Honda, your "lukewarm" reviews of your Kawasaki Ninja 250R I guess I assumed you would be buying a new CBR 150 or 250 when you get back to Thailand.

I know I know, never safe to ASSUME, so please let me know your thoughts on this matter and set me straight if my assumptions are incorrect.

I guess you haven't ridden the new CBR 250 yet, but you seem to know just about everything there is to know about the new bike and I'm wondering if you think it will be a better bike for you than the Ninjette.

Reviews of the new CBR 250R applaud it for being even easier to ride than the Ninja 250R.

That said, the Ninja 250R has been a popular beginner bike for many years because it is also very easy to ride.

So, do you think you'll be better off selling the Ninjette and getting the new CBR or will you stick with the Ninjette?

Happy Trails!

Tony

[snowflake]

Can you guys please stop bickering and talk about the bikes??? Is it that difficult?

You are all acting like little children now...

Sometimes we all say and do something that hurts someones feelings, once it is done, it is done... Grow up, move on...

So, get back on topic...

Which bike is the best for beginners? the CBR or the Ninja? Why?

I think the CBR is better than the Ninja because it is made for more in town riding. The Ninja is sportier and demands higher revs. I also have the feeling that the seating position on the Ninja is more leant forward which means that for beginners it will be more stressful and uncomfortable on their wrists...

Looks are not so important as it is individual for each person- I prefer the CBR to the Ninja.

What are your thoughts? all mighty know it alls????

[cdnvic]

Can you guys please stop bickering and talk about the bikes??? Is it that difficult?

You are all acting like little children now...

Sometimes we all say and do something that hurts someones feelings, once it is done, it is done... Grow up, move on...

So, get back on topic..

Yes, please.

I removed the posts and disabled the posting abilities of those who thought I wasn't serious about my last warning.

[dave_boo]

Can you guys please stop bickering and talk about the bikes??? Is it that difficult?

You are all acting like little children now...

Sometimes we all say and do something that hurts someones feelings, once it is done, it is done... Grow up, move on...

So, get back on topic...

Which bike is the best for beginners? the CBR or the Ninja? Why?

I think the CBR is better than the Ninja because it is made for more in town riding. The Ninja is sportier and demands higher revs. I also have the feeling that the seating position on the Ninja is more leant forward which means that for beginners it will be more stressful and uncomfortable on their wrists...

Looks are not so important as it is individual for each person- I prefer the CBR to the Ninja.

What are your thoughts? all mighty know it alls????

Ignoring your promulgation of "acting like little children now" with your "all mighty know it alls", as Tony pointed out for a beginner the CBR 250 will be the better choice. The amount of peak HP it gives up does not detract from the real amount of usable torque across the RPM range.

Since both bikes are beginner bikes, and the CBR is (by an admitted Kawi-holic) the better beginner bike where does that leave the Ninja? Overpriced and underperforming. Most will upgrade to a 400+ cc bike even before they exceed the CBR's capabilities, so then what? Top speed wise it looks like it's a wash. Acceleration the CBR will definitely take the lead from a standing start (and perhaps keep it?). Roll on the superior torque of the CBR will help it surge ahead. Having to drop down a couple of gears in the Ninja may only necessitate a single gear change in the CBR....etc.

[snowflake]

Did not think that the dya would come that someone said that the Kawasaki is overpriced in this country...

Ok, so where does that leave us on the 400cc market? Will Kwak launch their 400cc bike?

The top speed of the CBR might not be as high as the Ninja (now I like speed), but is that really important?

I think as other people have said in the past- most of the riding is done in town and you cant really pass 130 safely at any given time- let alone 80...

I find my CBR very comfortable, even when I stack it up against heavy hitters like the zx12r, and I find myself wondering every day, why do I want to upgrade from it?

If the CBR had a few extra horses, and could cruise with me at 150kmph easily I would be perfectly happy with it.

Due to the low power output I cant, I have to cruise at 130, which the bike does easily...

And that seat is extremely comfortable!!!

[dave_boo]

Did not think that the dya would come that someone said that the Kawasaki is overpriced in this country...

Ok, so where does that leave us on the 400cc market? Will Kwak launch their 400cc bike?

The top speed of the CBR might not be as high as the Ninja (now I like speed), but is that really important?

I think as other people have said in the past- most of the riding is done in town and you cant really pass 130 safely at any given time- let alone 80...

I find my CBR very comfortable, even when I stack it up against heavy hitters like the zx12r, and I find myself wondering every day, why do I want to upgrade from it?

If the CBR had a few extra horses, and could cruise with me at 150kmph easily I would be perfectly happy with it.

Due to the low power output I cant, I have to cruise at 130, which the bike does easily...

And that seat is extremely comfortable!!!

It's all relative isn't it?

Honda announces that they're going to release the bike at 4xxx USD and Kawasaki responds by lowering their price to match Honda's. Without knowing all the details (such as does Kawasaki operate newer ships they're still trying to pay off, is Honda planning on shipping more on each ship), the price of shipping should be about the same-same. So if Kawasaki can sell the Ninja for the same price in the States as Honda sells the CBR, what is their excuse for a +40% cost over the CBR in Thailand?

The 400+ cc was including the older models that you can buy second hand; do the Japanese offer those 400s in any market other than their home?

FWIW, it seems I'm smaller in frame than you (if not weight ), and the Ninja will not cruise with me sitting upright at greater than 135 ish.

[snowflake]

ha ha dave, I can almost guarantee that I am larger than you...

Stock ninja cruises at 135? why do i keep hearing that they go so much faster than the CBR?

Is your Ninja slower now than when you bought it?

What petrol do you use? and can you feel the difference in performance and economy?

I can easily cruise at 135 in I wanted to, but the revs would be at about 8500 and that is almost at top, not much petrol saving then I think...

Have you modded out your Ninja?

I hope that after I go to Bangkok I will not be having the same exhaust pipe- something has to be done with that...

Sorry for asking, but after your crash, how did you check/fix your bike? costs? not so much pride as every biker will go down at a point,it's really just a question about time, and how bad!

[BigBikeBKK]

Did not think that the dya would come that someone said that the Kawasaki is overpriced in this country...

Ok, so where does that leave us on the 400cc market? Will Kwak launch their 400cc bike?

The top speed of the CBR might not be as high as the Ninja (now I like speed), but is that really important?

I think as other people have said in the past- most of the riding is done in town and you cant really pass 130 safely at any given time- let alone 80...

I find my CBR very comfortable, even when I stack it up against heavy hitters like the zx12r, and I find myself wondering every day, why do I want to upgrade from it?

If the CBR had a few extra horses, and could cruise with me at 150kmph easily I would be perfectly happy with it.

Due to the low power output I cant, I have to cruise at 130, which the bike does easily...

And that seat is extremely comfortable!!!

It's all relative isn't it?

Honda announces that they're going to release the bike at 4xxx USD and Kawasaki responds by lowering their price to match Honda's. Without knowing all the details (such as does Kawasaki operate newer ships they're still trying to pay off, is Honda planning on shipping more on each ship), the price of shipping should be about the same-same. So if Kawasaki can sell the Ninja for the same price in the States as Honda sells the CBR, what is their excuse for a +40% cost over the CBR in Thailand?

The 400+ cc was including the older models that you can buy second hand; do the Japanese offer those 400s in any market other than their home?

FWIW, it seems I'm smaller in frame than you (if not weight ), and the Ninja will not cruise with me sitting upright at greater than 135 ish.

Yeah, until Honda came out with these new bikes the Ninjette was considered cheap as chips in Thailand. Now that the Ninjette has some competition we see that in the US they are matching price. What, if anything, will Kawasaki Thailand do now that the CBR 250 has arrived? Your guess is as good as mine.

FWIW I used to cruise tucked in on my stock Ninjette at an indicated 170kph which I guess with the reported speedo drift is closer to ~155kph actual. I think that unless you have a touring screen you need to tuck in on pretty much any sport or supersport above around ~140kph. Faster than that and the wind just hits too hard to sit upright for any extended period of time.

Ride On!

Tony

[dave_boo]

ha ha dave, I can almost guarantee that I am larger than you...

Stock ninja cruises at 135? why do i keep hearing that they go so much faster than the CBR?

Is your Ninja slower now than when you bought it?

What petrol do you use? and can you feel the difference in performance and economy?

I can easily cruise at 135 in I wanted to, but the revs would be at about 8500 and that is almost at top, not much petrol saving then I think...

Have you modded out your Ninja?

I hope that after I go to Bangkok I will not be having the same exhaust pipe- something has to be done with that...

Sorry for asking, but after your crash, how did you check/fix your bike? costs? not so much pride as every biker will go down at a point,it's really just a question about time, and how bad!

Apologies about perhaps not being clear. I consider "cruising" as being able to sit (as much as possible for the bike) bolt upright. With my ~176 cm (and *cough* 100 *cough* kg) size the Ninja will not cruise at more than 135. Tucked in, which I consider the antithesis of 'cruising' I am able to get over 150 km/h--both verified by GPS.

The Ninja is not slower now than when I bought it and I usually use the benzine 91 or gasohol 95...a bit odd, but the cost of the gasohol 95 isn't that much greater than 91 and I might as well try and make up some of the lower energy that gasohol offers.

I really can't measure a difference; we're talking about ~25 HP; even 10% difference is most likely unnoticeable.

I don't think that you're going to lose much of your economy running wide open like that; I never noticed any difference (and Tony agrees) running like a granny versus treating the Ninja like it was stolen. Even with the old CBR 150R I lost ~10% economy maximum between the two modes.

I've added a Power Commander and removed the snorkel; both mods do seem to fix the 'mid-range hole' that the Ninja is known for; haven't actually dyno-d it so I don't know if it's psychological or the real deal. Thaicbr has been pestering me about getting the DBS system; I'm considering doing just that and hopefully it will open up the Ninja's breathing a bit. Fork springs were replaced with Race Tech's 90 kg/mm...absolutely brilliant move on my part as now the bike feels much more planted with my fat arse on it. Before the front felt really vague and I bottomed it out a couple of times going too quickly to swerve around nasty bits in the road. The ride is obviously a bit more harsh, but much more in line with what I would expect from the feedback angle. HEL brake lines means that I've switched to single finger braking and modulate better; a factor, I believe, in the crash that has been featured in this thread.

The wife got the plastic changed (don't know the cost), I got some new (drelin?) bar ends, and the exhaust still needs a replacement. The rearsets were bent back into position for free and I've considered getting new ones as the stockers are a bit small for my size 48 feet. Total cost I'm not sure of, but the plastics were the biggest part. I want to say ~6xxx THB (?) for them, but I'm not sure.

[snowflake]

Not bad at all, I will now test your theory,

I will ride 150km one way my speed, and 150km the other way, measure the difference, would settle that for me-

[dave_boo]

Yeah, until Honda came out with these new bikes the Ninjette was considered cheap as chips in Thailand. Now that the Ninjette has some competition we see that in the US they are matching price. What, if anything, will Kawasaki Thailand do now that the CBR 250 has arrived? Your guess is as good as mine.

FWIW I used to cruise tucked in on my stock Ninjette at an indicated 170kph which I guess with the reported speedo drift is closer to ~155kph actual. I think that unless you have a touring screen you need to tuck in on pretty much any sport or supersport above around ~140kph. Faster than that and the wind just hits too hard to sit upright for any extended period of time.

Ride On!

Tony

I don't really know the gentleman in question (perhaps he has extremely strong wrists), but was just trying to provide real-world information. It would have been interesting to see what you could 'cruise' (sitting upright) at with your smaller frame.

[bobbin]

On topic...

Both machines are marketed as beginner bikes in Western markets. This is partly because in those markets, 250+cc machines have been sold forever, unlike the less developed markets where only recently has there been an option to move up without going to expensive (highly taxed) bikes.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, all sports/hobbies have to renew themselves. Without new players, the sport atrophies, relying on older and older participants. So encouraging beginners makes great marketing sense.

The fact that the engine is a quarter-litre does not by itself make it a beginner bike though. 250cc is more than enough to cruise comfortably at highway speed, even at 2-up. With enough left to safely execute passing maneuvers.

So is it Honda or Kawasaki? I say Honda. Significantly less expensive.(Advertisers hate the word "cheaper", it has negative connotations.) Newer technology. Better dealer/service networks. Better resale due to brand penetration.

Couple these advantages with the ABS option, which the Ninja 250 lacks, and you have a clear winner. Owners wont really care if it gives up a few kilometres per hour on the top-end. Most of them will be brief visitors to that territory.

For those newer to the sport, the ABS is what is most important. Modern front disc brakes are very powerful, and grabbing a handful at the wrong moment will put the rider on the pavement. ABS eliminates that problem apparently. Like so many activities, the casualty rate is disproportionate among new participants. So safety is good for the rider and good for the manufacturer.

And... in their advertisements Honda clearly states the bike is also aimed at experienced riders who want a good all-round road bike. So the fact that you are riding one doesn't mean you are a "newbie".

[BigBikeBKK]

Yeah, until Honda came out with these new bikes the Ninjette was considered cheap as chips in Thailand. Now that the Ninjette has some competition we see that in the US they are matching price. What, if anything, will Kawasaki Thailand do now that the CBR 250 has arrived? Your guess is as good as mine.

FWIW I used to cruise tucked in on my stock Ninjette at an indicated 170kph which I guess with the reported speedo drift is closer to ~155kph actual. I think that unless you have a touring screen you need to tuck in on pretty much any sport or supersport above around ~140kph. Faster than that and the wind just hits too hard to sit upright for any extended period of time.

Ride On!

Tony

I don't really know the gentleman in question (perhaps he has extremely strong wrists), but was just trying to provide real-world information. It would have been interesting to see what you could 'cruise' (sitting upright) at with your smaller frame.

Sorry, the gentleman you are referring to is Snowflake?

Sitting upright on a fast bike is very taxing. Go fast enough and it's downright dangerous.

I don't dare sit up on the Gixxer when pushing 300kph- I have no doubt the force of the wind would rip me right off the bike.

I had a bird hit me in the arm once while going "pretty fast". Despite wearing a good quality leather jacket, hitting that little bird at speed hurt like hell and left a bruise that didn't go away for weeks!

You are our ThaiVisa physicist- I'm sure you can explain better than I can how much force you have to push through going 140kph, 200kph, 300kph. Ever been hit by a golf ball? How fast do those travel?

There's a reason the Hayabusa looks so "fugly" but goes so fast- at higher speeds the aerodynamics are critically important.

[submaniac]

There's a reason the Hayabusa looks so "fugly" but goes so fast- at higher speeds the aerodynamics are critically important.

Hyabusa is not fugly. I like it.

And to the debate, I would choose the Ninjette twin over the CBR (and I am NOT a Kawasaki fan) if they were the same price. They are the same price in the U.S. What does that mean for Thailand? Diddley squat. In the States they would sell their bikes "at a loss" just to get new riders loyal to the brand, who will move up to bigger bikes. For the price difference in LOS, and if I had to choose, I would get the CBR. What I really did instead was just buy an older used 400cc sportbike. A japanese inline 4 will kick the crap out of either ninjette or CBR.

[BigBikeBKK]

So is it Honda or Kawasaki? I say Honda. Significantly less expensive.(Advertisers hate the word "cheaper", it has negative connotations.) Newer technology. Better dealer/service networks. Better resale due to brand penetration.

Considering the price difference between the CBR 250 and Ninjette in Thailand I have to agree with you, the CBR is much better value for money than the Ninjette here in the Land of Smiles.

Of course as we all know, value for money is not the only criteria buyers use when shopping for a motorcycle, so I don't expect the new CBR will kill Ninjette sales.

I mean, Ducati is still selling tons of crazy-expensive 696 Monsters in Thailand at 629,000 Baht a pop despite the fact that the 254,000 Baht Kawasaki ER6n has similar performance numbers but costs 384,000 Baht less than the Duc.

Think about that- for the price of one Monster 696 you could buy TWO ER6n's and have enough change left over to buy a brand new CBR 250. Is the Ducati "value for money"? I think not... Yet it's a beautiful bike and still sells.

So clearly, cost is not THE deciding factor.

But, in the US where the MSRP of the Ninjette and CBR 250 are exactly the same price it will be interesting to see which bike comes out on top.

Ride On!

Tony

[BigBikeBKK]

There's a reason the Hayabusa looks so "fugly" but goes so fast- at higher speeds the aerodynamics are critically important.

Hyabusa is not fugly. I like it.

Says the guy who posted pics of his coolant-burned keister on the forum for all to see...

TGIF!!!

Tony

[submaniac]

Says the guy who posted pics of his coolant-burned keister on the forum for all to see...

TGIF!!!

Tony

Really, I know you wanted this Surprise!

[dave_boo]

Sorry, the gentleman you are referring to is Snowflake?

Sitting upright on a fast bike is very taxing. Go fast enough and it's downright dangerous.

I don't dare sit up on the Gixxer when pushing 300kph- I have no doubt the force of the wind would rip me right off the bike.

I had a bird hit me in the arm once while going "pretty fast". Despite wearing a good quality leather jacket, hitting that little bird at speed hurt like hell and left a bruise that didn't go away for weeks!

You are our ThaiVisa physicist- I'm sure you can explain better than I can how much force you have to push through going 140kph, 200kph, 300kph. Ever been hit by a golf ball? How fast do those travel?

There's a reason the Hayabusa looks so "fugly" but goes so fast- at higher speeds the aerodynamics are critically important.

Sure play to my ego.....

Yes I was referring to snowflake; he has been the one to express interest in cruising at 150 (the wrist comment was a shout out to Peaceblondie).

The formula to figure out the force (power) to move the same object at different speeds in regards to 'air resistance' (drag) is as follows:

P_d = ¹/₂pv³AC_d

P_d is the power required to overcome drag

v is velocity

p is the density of the air

A is the reference area

C_d is the coefficient of drag

The important part (without getting technical) is the v³ (velocity cubed). Basically as your velocity increases (you speed up), the power requirements do not scale linearly but rather exponentially. I.E. the variables in that previous formula will remain the same except for your speed; going from 30-60 does not mean a doubling of required power but rather an eight fold increase (2x2x2), Touching on the gentleman who wants to cruise at 150 as easily as at 130 you'd need 154% more power than it takes to cruise easily at 130 to do the same at 150.

However, unless I was misreading your post you are actually asking about how much force the additional speed adds. The same formula applies; it's 154% more. Going from 130 to 300 is a huge difference; some 1229% more.

If in fact you're asking how much force it is, I can't actually answer that except with some general assumptions. Sighard Hoerner states that the motorcycles drag area is between 0,51-0,57 m². That's the "A". Density of air is 0,00108 kg/s². That's the "p" A standing human gives something like 1,0 for "C_d" (coefficient of drag), but bicycles (sorry) are ~0,7.

Plugging it all in we get

P_d = 0,00108kg/s² * v³ * 0,51m² * 0.7

So going at 130 km/h you'd need something like 18.16 Joules to overcome the wind resistance. At 150 km/h you'll need 27.89 J.