wjmark Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I think it's fairly safe to say that Honda did not design their new CBR 250 to win races. Cheap shot. I think it is fairly safe to say that Honda did not design their new bike to wipe out, or to look good in a ditch. (But please note that it does look good - even on its side!). Then again, it's rather clear that it's not being marketed to would-be racers. If Honda wanted the new CBR 250 to be competitive on the track they should have at least engineered it to match the Hp of the Ninjette. And easily "could have". My old 150 came from the factory heavily de-tuned. Just punching a few holes in the air box, adding a normal size down pipe, and enlarging the rear sprocket really opened it up. It seems possible (and even likely?) that a few mods will easily jump it close to the Ninja hp range. And my guess is that it will be easier to 'mod' a big jump in power out of the Honda than the Ninja. Maybe they engineered it to "mod up" easily. Honda smart - not stupid. And maybe it will win races. Correct me if I am wrong, but if it handles better than the Ninja, couldn't it win races - even with substantially less hp? I'm sure we'll see a head to head comparison of the two bikes soon and I also hope I'll be able to take a CBR 250 for a spin at a track one of these days to see how it handles. This is what I am really interested in. People talking about handling characteristics. How a bike feels as it leans - where it starts to slip, stuff like that. As a novice that kind of talk is far more interesting than 'lap times' and 'my hp is bigger than your hp'! Edited January 17, 2011 by wjmark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluestu Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 'Having ridden the CBR250 up doi suthep I can already say handling is awesome, and low end torque makes it an absolute joy for what I care about most, hitting the twisties. Loved the easy gear changes too, a pretty big difference from the much less refined CLUNK of the ER-6n / Versys. It's a really nice, well-handling, high tech little bike, just as you'd expect from Honda. The only real surprise is the low price in Thailand.' The above quote from nikster is exactly why I chose the new CBR 250R, I have no desire to take it on a race-track and don't care whether the Ninja, or any other bike for that matter, can do 10-20kph more than it. I would imagine that only a very small % of people who actually buy the bike will ever ride it to its limits on a track so whether it could beat a Ninja would purely be for bragging rights. The worlds motorbike press have all been very positive about it as have owners who have posted ride reports, the only negative things I've read have been from people who haven't actually experienced it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowflake Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Ther only negative thing I can say about it is the awful can... That has to be changed... Tygo will come with an R6 inspired copy soon... I think!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_boo Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 No need for it to be an "ugly argument". I personally prefer a spirited debate over name calling and insults. Ok, we all know that a stock Ninja 250R is more powerful than a stock Honda CBR 250 so no need to waste time arguing or debating that point. Now the question is, which one handles better? I think the CBR 250 is too new to make any conclusive judgment on its handling. I haven't ridden one yet so can't make any personal observations on the CBRs handling. The lap times were not terribly impressive, but then again, it's a brand new bike, seems they were forced to run on the stock IRC tires and no doubt with more mods and better tires lap times will improve. The new CBR 250 looks pretty nice in track fairings- The Ninjette has been tried and tested, modded and improved on streets and tracks all over the world and enjoyed a major re-design in 2008 so it's got quite a head start over the new CBR. I think it's fairly safe to say that Honda did not design their new CBR 250 to win races. Then again, it's rather clear that it's not being marketed to would-be racers. If Honda wanted the new CBR 250 to be competitive on the track they should have at least engineered it to match the Hp of the Ninjette. I'm sure we'll see a head to head comparison of the two bikes soon and I also hope I'll be able to take a CBR 250 for a spin at a track one of these days to see how it handles. Ride On! Tony You keep holding on to that mantra that the Ninja is some 15% more powerful than the CBR. However that's peak HP. What of the CBR's superior torque (which I'll remind you yet again is a real, not derived, rating) which is something like +25% peak and taller throughout the range? Add in the gearing difference and, well, I've already covered this... I notice that you also again state that the CBR's lap times "were not terribly impressive"; please provide stock Ninja lap times so that we can know how un-impressive they actually are... I will concede the point that the Ninja has had more of a head start in regards to to tuners being able to modify it; but what has really resulted? Almost all the cans were designed in the 2008, months after the bike was released. Have there been any new performance parts released in the last 6 months or even a year? I honestly don't know because 2fiddy.com has been dead forever. I'm also surprised, considering your joy in posting my "Ninja down" picture (and the fact that mine wasn't the only one you have) you did not also post one of the a Ninja down along side a road and state that "I think it's fairly safe to say that Kawasaki did not design their Ninja 250 to be ridden on the road". The train of thought that the bike should have been engineered to provide ~15% more peak HP to be competitive on the track is kinda invalidated if we just look at professional racing and see which bikes are consistently in the top running even with a dearth of power compared to the competitors... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I think it's fairly safe to say that Honda did not design their new CBR 250 to win races. Cheap shot. I think it is fairly safe to say that Honda did not design their new bike to wipe out, or to look good in a ditch. (But please note that it does look good - even on its side!). Sorry, I don't know why that's a "cheap shot"... Just expressing an opinion. You are welcome to agree or disagree. Then again, it's rather clear that it's not being marketed to would-be racers. If Honda wanted the new CBR 250 to be competitive on the track they should have at least engineered it to match the Hp of the Ninjette. And easily "could have". My old 150 came from the factory heavily de-tuned. Just punching a few holes in the air box, adding a normal size down pipe, and enlarging the rear sprocket really opened it up. It seems possible (and even likely?) that a few mods will easily jump it close to the Ninja hp range. And my guess is that it will be easier to 'mod' a big jump in power out of the Honda than the Ninja. If you think about it, ALL modern motorcycles come "de-tuned" in order to meet noise and emissions regulations. Stock exhausts, airboxes and fueling are all about cutting emissions, boosting fuel efficiency and reducing noise and not about performance. In racing you have stock class and open/ modify (names vary but I'm sure you get the idea). If we're going to compare the two bikes we should compare stock vs. stock and open/modify vs similar spec open/modify. How many mods will it require to get a CBR 250 to match a STOCK Ninja 250R. What would it take to get a Honda CBR 250 to match a modded Ninja 250R? Maybe they engineered it to "mod up" easily. Honda smart - not stupid. And maybe it will win races. Correct me if I am wrong, but if it handles better than the Ninja, couldn't it win races - even with substantially less hp? Well, we haven't touched on the variable of rider skill which of course is a critical factor in any race. No doubt Valentino Rossi could take a CBR 150 to the podium racing against a field of CBR 250's. That speaks to rider skill and not the capabilities of the bikes. This is why most bike reviews feature a panel of riders who test the competing bikes and share their feedback. Just because I sometimes beat "faster" supersport bikes at the track with my cheapie ER6, does that mean my ER6 is a "faster" bike? Of course not. I'm sure we'll see a head to head comparison of the two bikes soon and I also hope I'll be able to take a CBR 250 for a spin at a track one of these days to see how it handles. This is what I am really interested in. People talking about handling characteristics. How a bike feels as it leans - where it starts to slip, stuff like that. As a novice that kind of talk is far more interesting than 'lap times' and 'my hp is bigger than your hp'! Yep, like I said, until the bikes go head to head in a thorough and comprehensive review, the only things we can really use to differentiate them are performance figures. (oh, and price, but sorry, I still don't buy the "cheaper is better" argument that some are trying to put forward...) Ride On! Tony Edited January 17, 2011 by BigBikeBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 You keep holding on to that mantra that the Ninja is some 15% more powerful than the CBR. However that's peak HP. What of the CBR's superior torque (which I'll remind you yet again is a real, not derived, rating) which is something like +25% peak and taller throughout the range? Add in the gearing difference and, well, I've already covered this... I notice that you also again state that the CBR's lap times "were not terribly impressive"; please provide stock Ninja lap times so that we can know how un-impressive they actually are... I will concede the point that the Ninja has had more of a head start in regards to to tuners being able to modify it; but what has really resulted? Almost all the cans were designed in the 2008, months after the bike was released. Have there been any new performance parts released in the last 6 months or even a year? I honestly don't know because 2fiddy.com has been dead forever. I'm also surprised, considering your joy in posting my "Ninja down" picture (and the fact that mine wasn't the only one you have) you did not also post one of the a Ninja down along side a road and state that "I think it's fairly safe to say that Kawasaki did not design their Ninja 250 to be ridden on the road". Huh?! Sorry mate, I have no idea what you're talking about.... I think you have me confused with someone else? The train of thought that the bike should have been engineered to provide ~15% more peak HP to be competitive on the track is kinda invalidated if we just look at professional racing and see which bikes are consistently in the top running even with a dearth of power compared to the competitors... Sorry Dave, I've asked around and can't find anyone who's raced a stock Ninja 250R at Thailand Circuit. (The CBR 250's that raced at Thailand Circuit weren't stock either but being restricted to IRC's put them at a BIG disadvantage IMO). Seems the guys who go out for Superbike qualification all ride heavily modded Ninjettes and if memory serves (which it often doesn't) best lap time I recall for a modded Ninjette at Thailand Circuit is around 1:20. I believe the only stock class 250cc racing in Thailand are the quarterly Kawasaki MiniGP's, but they've never held one at Thailand Circuit, so I don't believe a lap time exists for a stock Ninjette at Thailand Circuit. Of course rider skill can overcome deficiencies in power and handling. When comparing the two bikes we must assume riders of EQUAL skill. Given riders of equal skill (and weight), naturally the bike with more power and/or better handling will record faster lap times. Wouldn't you agree? Ride On! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowflake Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Tony, Is your ER6RR a better bike than the 1098? Yes and no, but what people are judging the CBR for being slower than a Ninja, so by comparison, if your ER6RR is faster around the track than a 1098, it is better... I would at any time take the 1098 over your track ER6RR, and I guess you would do the same, but which bike is best? For you, on the track, the ER6RR might be the better bike, but on the road?? Comparing 2 bikes, 2 slow, beginner orientated bikes, cheap bikes, and small bikes, what can we expect from them? They will be slow They will be uncomfortable They will be very affordable They will not be the best bikes in the world but let us look a bit closer at this... Will the CBR and the Ninja start every day for the next few years with proper maintenance? My guess is yes. The Ninja might beat the CBR on top speed, and the CBR might beat the ninja in low rpm grunt, you have to decide what you need to find the better bike. My guess would be that most people would find both bikes fairly leveled in terms of speed and acceleration. Price, hmmm... sure one bike is more expensive than the other, but let us not forget, Kawa had 2 years to build and sell the only 250cc in the country- they cannot lower the price now, as the second hand market for their bikes would fall... Honda was very clever indead, they charge just a tad more for the 250cc than the 150cc, both affordable for most middle class thais, which means by offering a superior brand (yes honda is superior brand name in Thailand). Neither bike is the better bike in my opinion- they are just different bikes for different people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Tony, Is your ER6RR a better bike than the 1098? Yes and no, but what people are judging the CBR for being slower than a Ninja, so by comparison, if your ER6RR is faster around the track than a 1098, it is better... I would at any time take the 1098 over your track ER6RR, and I guess you would do the same, but which bike is best? For you, on the track, the ER6RR might be the better bike, but on the road?? Comparing 2 bikes, 2 slow, beginner orientated bikes, cheap bikes, and small bikes, what can we expect from them? They will be slow They will be uncomfortable They will be very affordable They will not be the best bikes in the world but let us look a bit closer at this... Will the CBR and the Ninja start every day for the next few years with proper maintenance? My guess is yes. The Ninja might beat the CBR on top speed, and the CBR might beat the ninja in low rpm grunt, you have to decide what you need to find the better bike. My guess would be that most people would find both bikes fairly leveled in terms of speed and acceleration. Price, hmmm... sure one bike is more expensive than the other, but let us not forget, Kawa had 2 years to build and sell the only 250cc in the country- they cannot lower the price now, as the second hand market for their bikes would fall... Honda was very clever indead, they charge just a tad more for the 250cc than the 150cc, both affordable for most middle class thais, which means by offering a superior brand (yes honda is superior brand name in Thailand). Neither bike is the better bike in my opinion- they are just different bikes for different people! Erm, bro, did you miss what I wrote in Post # 95 above? Here it is again since I must assume you missed it: Just because I sometimes beat "faster" supersport bikes at the track with my cheapie ER6, does that mean my ER6 is a "faster" bike? Of course not. Also, we must recognize that THAILAND is but a TINY market for both Kawasaki and Honda and does not represent the global market. In the markets that COUNT, such as North America, where more of these bikes are sold, the Ninjette and non-ABS CBR 250 are IDENTICAL in price. I'm assuming that based on their decision to match prices in North America that Kawasaki will also match prices in other major markets such as Europe, Australia, etc to compete with the new CBR. So, ignore the price difference in Thailand for a moment if you can, and return to the real question- if the two bikes are priced the same, which one would you choose, and why? There is no right or wrong answer. No need for "cheap shots" or "ugly arguments". Different bikes appeal to different riders for different reasons. I think I've explained my preference for the Ninjette quite clearly, but that's not meant as an insult or put down to buyers of the new CBR 250. As long as it puts a smile on your face you've chosen the right bike. Period. Happy Trails! Tony Edited January 17, 2011 by BigBikeBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowflake Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) Beutiful both of them, just different preferences by their owners... [/img] Edited January 17, 2011 by snowflake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 looks, Ninjette engine, Ninjette dealers/aftermarket, Ninjette. Less dealers, but they know big bikes and are equipped for it. All dealers stock spareparts, and have new supply next day. Honda dealers know mopeds, but have a long way to go both on knowledge and spareparts. handling, brakes, well they are cheap so any slight difference I wouldnt bother. Both come on not so good tyres price and value for money CBR250 def. 40% more for the Ninjette just isnt right and as for CBR250 ABS, unbeatable value for money just IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow86 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I will admit that had the Ninja been closer to the price of the Honda then i would have at least contemplated it. As it was soo much more it just wasn't in my budget - i also feel that it looks a little dated and i think the CBR looks sturdier. However, I'm probably gonna go Kwackers next with the Ninja 650. Price anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I will admit that had the Ninja been closer to the price of the Honda then i would have at least contemplated it. As it was soo much more it just wasn't in my budget - i also feel that it looks a little dated and i think the CBR looks sturdier. However, I'm probably gonna go Kwackers next with the Ninja 650. Price anyone? 257k including ABS, ad 1900 baht for reg/plate/tax. kwaker fixed pricing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernow86 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I will admit that had the Ninja been closer to the price of the Honda then i would have at least contemplated it. As it was soo much more it just wasn't in my budget - i also feel that it looks a little dated and i think the CBR looks sturdier. However, I'm probably gonna go Kwackers next with the Ninja 650. Price anyone? 257k including ABS, ad 1900 baht for reg/plate/tax. kwaker fixed pricing I'd better start saving my stans then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_boo Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) wjmark, Finally someone that came with some good points on which bike is better... I think that once enough people have changed their tires from the IRC to something better (Kwakers also changed their tires) people will find that their CBR's are getting much better. I feel that for what it is, the handling of the CBR is very good, in town it is extremely easy to ride, few gearshifts and loads (for what it is) torque from the start makes it easy to weave in and out of lanes/traffic. It also have the power in any gear to forgive that optimistic overtake that you really should not have tried to. On the highway, sure it lacks in weight, just like every small bike does, but for that, you do need a bigger bike/sports tourer. BUT, the ability of cruising at 130kmph is there, and it will do so brilliantly and with the correct rider in the twisties, keep up with much bigger bikes. The seat is what still amazes me the most, after 3-4 hours in the saddle, my bum is still fresh as a daisy and willing to ride more/further. All in all, that CBR is impressive in every way- looks might not be the best (very individual) but for the whole twin vs single, give me a break... Sure one might be better, faster, sound nicer, but will that make it a better bike? Fast bikes magazine had an article along time ago, they were testing commuters on a "longer journey"... They had a few bikes as they always do, the honda was never the fastest, most comfortable, prettiest, or cheapest, but all the people agreed that if you were 400 miles from home, the honda was the bike they would want. Honda is known to make reliable easy riding bikes, and that in my humble opinion is more important than 10 kmph extra... (and I do LOVE speed!) All in all, the whole which bike is better is so individual, what is perfect for someone, is a pain in the arse for someone. Some people like the Vespa, I think they are dirt fugly, some people do not like the Hayabusa, I love them- Each for his/hers own, just try to get the best you can afford with the specs you like! Said that, I did buy the bike untested, I had hoped that it could cruise at 150kmph (which would have made it the last bike I would ever have) but it cant, not with me on top anyway. Sure I can reach 150, but that is pushing it hard and you do work more on the bike, 130 is very comfortable. I will because of that speed factor change this bike this year, to something that is a bit faster, Vesyrus (SP) here I come!!! But to all my friends I do say, this bike is more than enough for you, it has the power and comfortability you look for. So, anyone with a Ninja (they are out playing on their bikes while the CBR crew is inside typing, go figure), please let us know the handling and comfortability of your ride... Dave, you have a Ninja, yes? Care to let us know? Is this really apples and oranges? I can't really comment about comfort because I'm very permissive about what I tolerate; case in point is that I often went on 750+ km ride on the old model CBR 150...so my bum may not accurately reflect what others are willing to put up with! As far as handling I think that I can offer what I feel about the Ninja in regards to MY WEIGHT. And in that point the stock Ninja is garbage. It's sprung much too soft for someone so large. ~3000 THB for Race Tech fork springs later it's much improved. But, once again for a large expat, the bike is awfully vague and easily bottomed out. You keep holding on to that mantra that the Ninja is some 15% more powerful than the CBR. However that's peak HP. What of the CBR's superior torque (which I'll remind you yet again is a real, not derived, rating) which is something like +25% peak and taller throughout the range? Add in the gearing difference and, well, I've already covered this... I notice that you also again state that the CBR's lap times "were not terribly impressive"; please provide stock Ninja lap times so that we can know how un-impressive they actually are... I will concede the point that the Ninja has had more of a head start in regards to to tuners being able to modify it; but what has really resulted? Almost all the cans were designed in the 2008, months after the bike was released. Have there been any new performance parts released in the last 6 months or even a year? I honestly don't know because 2fiddy.com has been dead forever. I'm also surprised, considering your joy in posting my "Ninja down" picture (and the fact that mine wasn't the only one you have) you did not also post one of the a Ninja down along side a road and state that "I think it's fairly safe to say that Kawasaki did not design their Ninja 250 to be ridden on the road". Huh?! Sorry mate, I have no idea what you're talking about.... I think you have me confused with someone else? The train of thought that the bike should have been engineered to provide ~15% more peak HP to be competitive on the track is kinda invalidated if we just look at professional racing and see which bikes are consistently in the top running even with a dearth of power compared to the competitors... Sorry Dave, I've asked around and can't find anyone who's raced a stock Ninja 250R at Thailand Circuit. (The CBR 250's that raced at Thailand Circuit weren't stock either but being restricted to IRC's put them at a BIG disadvantage IMO). Seems the guys who go out for Superbike qualification all ride heavily modded Ninjettes and if memory serves (which it often doesn't) best lap time I recall for a modded Ninjette at Thailand Circuit is around 1:20. I believe the only stock class 250cc racing in Thailand are the quarterly Kawasaki MiniGP's, but they've never held one at Thailand Circuit, so I don't believe a lap time exists for a stock Ninjette at Thailand Circuit. Of course rider skill can overcome deficiencies in power and handling. When comparing the two bikes we must assume riders of EQUAL skill. Given riders of equal skill (and weight), naturally the bike with more power and/or better handling will record faster lap times. Wouldn't you agree? Ride On! Tony All right; your memory for the Ninjas is that it was 1:20, and Thunderbird4ever said that the CBR on stock tyres ran 1:34, that's not too big of a delta is it? My offer for the shootout still stands FWIW... **edit** And I also refer back to Bard reaching 140 on the straight at Bira compared to the same speed reached by the Aussie and I have to wonder how much the IRCs affected the running of those CBRs.... Erm, bro, did you miss what I wrote in Post # 95 above? Here it is again since I must assume you missed it: Just because I sometimes beat "faster" supersport bikes at the track with my cheapie ER6, does that mean my ER6 is a "faster" bike? Of course not. Also, we must recognize that THAILAND is but a TINY market for both Kawasaki and Honda and does not represent the global market. In the markets that COUNT, such as North America, where more of these bikes are sold, the Ninjette and non-ABS CBR 250 are IDENTICAL in price. I'm assuming that based on their decision to match prices in North America that Kawasaki will also match prices in other major markets such as Europe, Australia, etc to compete with the new CBR. So, ignore the price difference in Thailand for a moment if you can, and return to the real question- if the two bikes are priced the same, which one would you choose, and why? There is no right or wrong answer. No need for "cheap shots" or "ugly arguments". Different bikes appeal to different riders for different reasons. I think I've explained my preference for the Ninjette quite clearly, but that's not meant as an insult or put down to buyers of the new CBR 250. As long as it puts a smile on your face you've chosen the right bike. Period. Happy Trails! Tony The problem with your "ignore the price difference in Thailand for a moment if you can" and suppositional "if the two bikes are priced the same" is that it's a moot point. The fact that for the price you paid for your Versys you could almost get an 1198 in the States means <deleted> all doesn't it since that's not how life works... Edited January 17, 2011 by dave_boo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appropriate Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 but if you put a dress on a pig, it's still a pig. I agree completely. The ninja is useless before 9000rpm, and two up you might as well be riding a 150kg bag of cement. Even the dress on her is flat and bland, besides her ass, which to be fair is perfectly pert, she's no competition if you want a bike for everyday driving. Want something small for the weekend at a track, then sure, little piggy will scream a bit more, but who wants to date a pig just because you get to make her scream twice a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appropriate Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The fact that for the price you paid for your Versys you could almost get an 1198 in the States Blimey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaicbr Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The fact that for the price you paid for your Versys you could almost get an 1198 in the States Blimey! 2nd conded.. How much is an 1198 in the States then.. I thought sure as bears shit in the woods it would not be close to a Versys price of 9,320 dollars (xe.com) but maybe i'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) The problem with your "ignore the price difference in Thailand for a moment if you can" and suppositional "if the two bikes are priced the same" is that it's a moot point. The fact that for the price you paid for your Versys you could almost get an 1198 in the States means <deleted> all doesn't it since that's not how life works... Sorry Dave, I think you've lost the plot a bit matey... You're usually such a "numbers" guy I'm surprised you missed this one by so much... The 2011 Ducati 1198 base model MSRP is US$16495 which translates to 494,850 Thai Baht if you do the exchange at 30 Baht to the US$. Let's not even talk about the 1198 R which goes for a mere US$39995 or about 1.2 million Thai Baht In Thailand the 2011 Versys sells for 285,000 Thai Baht which comes out to US$9500 So you're only off by some 209,850 Thai Baht or $6995... If you can tell me where we can pick up a 2011 Ducati 1198 in the States for a little over $9500 I'm sure a lot of Ducati fans would love to jump on that deal! I guess maybe you were trying to say "The fact that for the price you paid for your Versys you could almost get HALF an 1198 in the States"? Get some sleep bro! Happy Trails! Tony Edited January 17, 2011 by BigBikeBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBikeBKK Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The problem with your "ignore the price difference in Thailand for a moment if you can" and suppositional "if the two bikes are priced the same" is that it's a moot point. Sorry Dave, I guess you don't understand what I'm trying to say... I've said before that the new Honda CBR 250 represents tremendous value for money here in Thailand where it's significantly cheaper (ahem, sorry, less expensive) than the Kawasaki Ninja 250R. But just because in this market there is a big price difference doesn't make my question moot. The question again is: if the two bikes are priced the same, which one would you choose, and why? Obviously we're all aware that here in Thailand the bikes are NOT priced the same. I'm just asking- if they were, which one would you choose, and why? Surely it's not so hard to get your head around that question, is it? I know you haven't ridden the new CBR 250 yet, but based on all the figures you've crunched and reviews you've read you can still make an educated guess about how it will compare to your Ninjette, can't you? Happy Trails! Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMX Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I realize that only dave_ can deliver the answer to this pregnant question, but let us recall the issue of ABS (which admittedly is going to raise the Honda's U.S. price $500). Still, in those circumstances, if I wanted a beginner's little sports bike to keep for a while, I'd - oh, not my question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaicbr Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I realize that only dave_ can deliver the answer to this pregnant question, but let us recall the issue of ABS (which admittedly is going to raise the Honda's U.S. price $500). Still, in those circumstances, if I wanted a beginner's little sports bike to keep for a while, I'd - oh, not my question. CMX.. the linked brakes would be excellent for you.. What with your Penchant for pulling the wrong lever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRS1 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I haven't ridden the CBR 250, but i have ridden the ninja 250 at 160kph and it was running strong. My old CBR 150 modified in every aspect would go 160kph, but wouldn't be as strong as the Ninja 250 at 160kph, probably have about 50% of the pull the Ninja would have at that speed. I'm betting that after a year the modification market is going to make the CBR 250 a very sick bike. Once people start to lengthen the stroke, bore out, change internal gearing, cdi's and switch the FI for a big carb, the bike's going to be bad ass. (notice how i didn't mention bigger exhaust ) Forgot to ask - is the gas tank less wide than the Ninja 250? Edited January 17, 2011 by KRS1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMX Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 (edited) Thaicbr, My understanding now of the Cbr 250 ABS is that only the foot brake is linked in a combi-brake arrangement, and even then it only activates the front when the rear is close to being locked up (were it not for the ABS on the rear). My one-time spastic pull on the clutch would to make a bike brake, if ever repeated, could never activate brakes on a geared motorcycle that has a manual. Also, omitting to push the foot brake while puzzling about the feel of the clutch while imagining it a brake won't help much. On the other hand, my automatic pull of the right handle brake would activate the ABS on the front brake, an advantage in a panic, er, emergency situation to be sure, but it would not (again, as I understand it now) ever activate the rear. Just got to remember to put that right foot down. I may not be alone in learning best from bad outcomes, however. I have three bikes now, and practice braking as I leave home every time. Probably keep the habit for a lifetime or until I forget, whichever comes first. Edited January 18, 2011 by CMX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skybluestu Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 looks, Ninjette engine, Ninjette dealers/aftermarket, Ninjette. Less dealers, but they know big bikes and are equipped for it. All dealers stock spareparts, and have new supply next day. Honda dealers know mopeds, but have a long way to go both on knowledge and spareparts. handling, brakes, well they are cheap so any slight difference I wouldnt bother. Both come on not so good tyres price and value for money CBR250 def. 40% more for the Ninjette just isnt right and as for CBR250 ABS, unbeatable value for money just IMHO Excellent summary, and kind of re-iterates my point about the CBR winning on value on the Ninja winning on everything else. I still think the attractive Tri-Color 150 is the way to go if you're looking for ultimate value - although the "value-for-money" guys don't seem to want to address this issue. How come the CBR150 thread regularly has guys reporting speeds of 135-140, and on the CBR250 thread there's guys saying they struggled to get it over 140? Something odd there. Anyone care to justify the extra 30k and cost of ownership? On the subject of dealers, maybe if you live in the middle of nowhere then a lack of dealers is a problem. I'm 5 kms from Kawasaki HQ Rama 9 and it's the most professional outfit re. cars or bikes that I've seen here in LOS. A pleasure to deal with - air con lounge while you wait with free wifi & coffee, fixed prices, fully trained mechanics etc. Gone are the days when I had to send a Thai in to get the quote before I showed myself and long may that continue. The days of dealing with outfits like APe Honda won't be missed. As I said before, the CBR is a good bike and good value for money but let's not get delusional about it's merits and shortcomings :jap: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GilesPeach Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I ride an almost stock Ninja 250R. Almos,t because I changed the exhaust to an Akrapovic Carbon-tipped slip-on. Even before I put on the skip-on, I found around Bangkok riding to be easy and enjoyable as it could be as the bike is light and relatively slim (I've previously ridden numerous other bikes here including a Ducati ST2 and a PCX). The slip-on exhaust improved the lower down and mid-range torque noticeably, and sounds like a dream with it's most un-250cc like deep rumble. I've ridden the bike on several longer journeys, including to Rayong and Khao Yai, and if I am honest, the seat is not the most comfortable after about 2 or 3 hours. I'm seriously considering paying the 500 baht needed to fatten it up a bit at one of the local seat shops you see around town. The CBR definately seems to have the better stock set up, and is much better suited to carrying a passenger. The handling of the Ninja 250 is widely aknowledged to be class leading,and I would say I have to agree. It handles bumps and corners with impressive comfort and ease and is adjustable for larger riders (stock setting for suspension is 70kg worldwide I am told). I am not sure if the CBR250 has this or not. Anyone? Both bikes come with IRC tires, he Ninja with the Roadwinner model. I haven't checked the CBR250, but the 150 seems to have a cheaper model, more rounded. Can anyone comment on the 250? The stock tires have proved adequate for me so far, but as the rainy season approaches I am sure I will be swapping them out for a pair of Michelin Pilot Roads (amazing if you haven't tried them). What I love about the Ninja is that it feels like a big bike, rides like a bike, but is nimble for around town daily use. While the price of the CBR is very attractive, and ABS is something I would love; I would need to ride the bike and be sure it doesnt just feel like an upgraded CBR150 before I would be comfortable buying one. For me, riding on the open road is akin to a sensation of flying, and the Ninja 250R delivers on this. Can the CBR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaphase Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The ninja is a twin right..? And the cbr a single.. so the ninja has 2 of everything. That's why it cost more. It's better in my opinion too, probably. Personally i'd spend 100K more and get the 650. But then again there's an '08 Repsol CBR1000 near me for 260K. So I'd have that instead. Proper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The ninja is a twin right..? And the cbr a single.. so the ninja has 2 of everything. That's why it cost more. It's better in my opinion too, probably. Personally i'd spend 100K more and get the 650. But then again there's an '08 Repsol CBR1000 near me for 260K. So I'd have that instead. Proper. If the 2008 Repsol CBR 1000 comes with a legal book to be transfered on payment and is in ok condition, I am a taker on the spot Please PM contact info However most come with no book or bendt book, and I m not going there again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justaphase Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The ninja is a twin right..? And the cbr a single.. so the ninja has 2 of everything. That's why it cost more. It's better in my opinion too, probably. Personally i'd spend 100K more and get the 650. But then again there's an '08 Repsol CBR1000 near me for 260K. So I'd have that instead. Proper. If the 2008 Repsol CBR 1000 comes with a legal book to be transfered on payment and is in ok condition, I am a taker on the spot Please PM contact info However most come with no book or bendt book, and I m not going there again No book mate. But easy i think and 70,000 more. The bikes mint. Quite hard to thrash one of them here.. LOL The guy says he can get most bikes. He's got a gixer1000 and a ducati there too. Strangly all the same price.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katabeachbum Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The ninja is a twin right..? And the cbr a single.. so the ninja has 2 of everything. That's why it cost more. It's better in my opinion too, probably. Personally i'd spend 100K more and get the 650. But then again there's an '08 Repsol CBR1000 near me for 260K. So I'd have that instead. Proper. If the 2008 Repsol CBR 1000 comes with a legal book to be transfered on payment and is in ok condition, I am a taker on the spot Please PM contact info However most come with no book or bendt book, and I m not going there again No book mate. But easy i think and 70,000 more. The bikes mint. Quite hard to thrash one of them here.. LOL The guy says he can get most bikes. He's got a gixer1000 and a ducati there too. Strangly all the same price.. Thanks Gone the "pay bike and book and promise legal book in 30-90 days" route before, and will stick with my kwaker 650 until anything larger is available legal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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