30,000 Thai Red Shirts Rally In Bangkok: Police

[pipo1000]

Well let me give you just one example.

He computerised the many government branches.This made it very difficult for them to ask money for things that were actually normal procedures but untill then up to the officer in charge.If you have to deal with them you will have to admit that many governmenty departments have improved a lot when Thaksin came in charge.

[pipo1000]

K. Thaksin has gone on record 'this is not about me'. The problem with k. Thaksin was his idea of sharing (one for you, one for me; one Thai at a time). The sale of Shin corp holdings after a law change AND no tax payable on the deal was the last drop.

That is excactly my point.He stole a lot ,probably not more then previous governments,but didn't share it with the other thieves.

But at the same time he weeded out the corruption in the government departments,because he dididn't get any profit from it anyway,and in that way he got the support from the poor man.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote two nested posts.

[rubl]

That is excactly my point.He stole a lot ,probably not more then previous governments,but didn't share it with the other thieves...

None of k. Thaksin's predecessors 'collected' the same amount of money, or came even close. Not k. Banharn, k. Chuan, Gen. Chavalit (any before I have to check the names again, too long ago).

The poor profited from various popular measures, like the 1M baht village fund, farmer debt erasure (a recurring thing), 30-baht medical service (almost started by k. Chuan and partially crippling upcountry hospitals), handouts, etc., etc. With the local elite and the age old patronage system still in place and continued by various political parties, you may wonder why the poor support k. Thaksin. Probably the roman way 'bread and games'.

Low level corruption has never diminished, only high level corruption seems floating up and down.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote four nested posts.

[Buchholz]

...This is not aboutthe predictions that were made but about the people who actually showed up.As I said before 30.000 is a very impressive number...

You must have really been extra "very impressed" then when 35,000 came to see Korean pop stars...

Korean pop starts in one place, Super Junior, SNSD, SHINee, f(x) and others were seen at one event, despite over 30 degrees Celcius temperature, over 35,000 fans filled the seats filled with enthusiastic cheers pouring the event.

http://www.dkpopnews.net/2010/08/news-sm-town-live-concert-ended-with.html

The DPA correspondent put it at 20,000... but I can accept 30,000 as quite a number of other media sources said that same figure... which is half of what Thida said earlier today were expected.

It's when Red supporters here post personal estimates that are nearly double (50,000) of what all other media sources are saying that I am bit skeptical of the veracity of that sort of "thaivisa member reporting."

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote three nested posts.

[Buchholz]

None of k. Thaksin's predecessors 'collected' the same amount of money, or came even close. Not k. Banharn, k. Chuan, Gen. Chavalit (any before I have to check the names again, too long ago).

Corruption at the time of Thaksin's administration was described as across the board, "Unprecedented", by someone who was in a position to know, the Auditor-General.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote two nested posts.

[Buchholz]

...I have been all over Thailand and I can a sure you that I have only met handful of people outside of Bangkok that don't like the Red side of the political problem here in Thailand....

Conversely, I've traveled the length and breadth of this country and have encountered Red detractors all over.

As for upcoming elections, repeated polling done all over the country indicate most Thais do NOT want the Pheu Thai Party (presuming that's the "red side would win" you mention) to be the government.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote the entire lengthy post.

[webfact]

RED SHIRT RALLIES

A year for justice, ex-PM taunts

By The Nation

Thaksin promises democracy and reconciliation in phone-in to mob

Fugitive ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra told red shirts massed at Ratchaprasong Intersection last night he would do everything to "bring back democracy, prosperity and justice" to Thailand.

"This is the year justice must return," he said in a phone call from an aeroplane, whose location was not revealed.

This year would be a good one for Thai people, he said, referring to national reconciliation.

To the government, reconciliation meant trailing and capturing him, but to the people, reconciliation meant reunification and justice, he said.

"Is it going to happen? I can't understand their thinking," he said. "I wasn't planning on speaking but the continued injustice changed my mind."

The red shirts' patron spent a few minutes talking to the mob at Ratchaprasong, saying he was in good health.

Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan joined the red-shirt rally in defiance of a court ban on his participating in a public assembly of more than five people.

"My lawyer sought and received clarification from a judge who explained that I could rally if I don't make speeches about my case," he said in reference to his pending trial on terrorism charges in connection with last year's riots.

Jatuporn claimed the clearance had come from Manit Sukanan, deputy chief judge of the Criminal Court.

The Department of Special Investigation was closely monitoring Jatuporn's remarks and activities at the Ratchaprasong rally, DSI director-general Tharit Pengdit said.

If he was found violating the ban, the DSI would promptly request for his bail to be revoked, he said.

Maj General Wichai Sangprapai, commander of Metropolitan Police Division 1, said some 60,000 red shirts showed up at the two rallies at Rajdamnoen and Ratchaprasong.

The gatherings took place within legal limits, he said.

About 300 officers were deployed to keep peace and order, while some 1,000 anti-riot police were stationed at headquarters for any problems.

By late afternoon, Ratchaprasong was closed to traffic due to the crowd.

Three factions of the red-shirt movement took part in the rallies. The mainstream reds were led by Thida Thawornseth. Another faction was under Pithan "Pae Bangsanan" Song-amphol, while the remaining protesters were supporters of the late Maj General Khattiya "Seh Daeng" Sawasdiphol.

The Seh Daeng group led by his daughter Khattiya marched from Ratchaprasong to the King Rama VI Statue at Lumpini Park to mark his death last year.

Sirisakul Saikua, wife of Nattawut, one of the red leaders, was crying and said he had no chance to hold his eight-month-old daughter since being detained at Klong Prem Central Prison.

The next red-shirt rally will be held on January 23.

-- The Nation 2011-01-10

[pipo1000]

...The DPA correspondent put it at 20,000... but I can accept 30,000 as quite a number of other media sources said that same figure... which is half of what Thida said earlier today were expected...

So we gonna compare a political rally with pop concert now?Strong arguments must be hard to find then I assume.

Oops what I read now in The Nation...............people who might be in the knowledge of the real numbers don't agree with the numbers you prefer to see.

Maj General Wichai Sangprapai, commander of Metropolitan Police Division 1, said some 60,000 red shirts showed up at the two rallies at Rajdamnoen and Ratchaprasong.<BR sab="169">The gatherings took place within legal limits, he said

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/01/10/national/A-year-for-justice-ex-PM-taunts-30146007.html

Oh, and I'm not a red supporter neither am I one of any of the other political party's in this country where I have no right of opinion,but I am not blinded by an obsession like some on this forum are.

[jonclark]

Don't really give a flying fig how many people turned up last night at the red shirt rally, as the number of motorists left stuck in endless hours of traffic jams, wasting their time and money and getting massively annoyed and agitated is far, far greater than those at the rally site. A red minority once again piss*s of the majority.

[ozzieman05]

...I have been all over Thailand and I can a sure you that I have only met handful of people outside of Bangkok that don't like the Red side of the political problem here in Thailand...

.

Wife comes from a village 1.5 hrs out side Udon, In my book that is in Issan Country, hope you agree

We are building a home here and have been doing so for 3 months

Now funny as it is all the people in the village and the workers on the house say that the Red Shirts just cause trouble and they just want the chance to leave a decent life

Correction: when I say all I mean those I meet on a daily basis

I am also a farang so my say does not count, but my wife has spent many year living in Australia so talks to her village friends

She is University educated so I guess they think she must know what she is talking about

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. (Click on the back-link of the quote to see the full text, if desired)

[nikster]

Everyone hates the current government - plodding along in the same old same old ridiculous corrupt ways, splitting the pie between those few that have always been doing that. Thaksin was different. But if you think for a moment that he'd have been better for the country, or the Thais, you're a fool.

The only difference between Thaksin and his reds and the current government is ambition. Both are corrupt to the core but Thaksin alone has the intent, and means, to become a full blown dictator who will never, ever go away again, and who will squeeze this country for all it's worth.

Many of his corrupt deals are well known - what sets him apart from others before him is scale. Where others were stealing Millions, Thaksin was stealing Billions. A change in the law provided Billions of government money to his very own company, AIS. The Burmese government got a loan of USD $4Bn (USD, not Baht, by the way) under the condition that the money be spent on satellite equipment sold by one of Thaksin's companies... the list goes on.

The crackdown on drug dealers which left over 2,000 dead with no accountability.

To conclude, while the status quo is deplorable and no doubt one reason the reds have so much support, T. is not the solution.

[Soutpeel]

Well let me give you just one example.

He computerised the many government branches.This made it very difficult for them to ask money for things that were actually normal procedures but untill then up to the officer in charge.If you have to deal with them you will have to admit that many governmenty departments have improved a lot when Thaksin came in charge.

LOL... .....How did the former esteemed PM start out in business ?.....he was suppling computers to the police !!!.....therefore one could suggest computerisation of goverment branches was in his own interests....he benefitted directly....nothing to do with improving efficiency/reducing corruption

[Siripon]

Thaksin said he phoned in whilst flying somewhere over Europe, probably Dubai and Russia have told him no political activities can be conducted on their soil.

[Nisa]

...And as another poster already said,the 30.000 announced is only a fraction of what realy showed up...

30k? Sounds like the attendance of a Pro sporting event

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote three nested posts.

[timekeeper]

Everyone hates the current government...

you are wrong, you say ''everyone hates this government'', 'everyone' by definition means every person

even if that sweeping generalisation were only restricted to Thailand

you would still be wrong as it does not include me

i love this government as do many of my friends so you are wrong in this and many other things

i think when you say everyone hates this government, i think you just mean you.......

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote the entire lengthy post.

[timekeeper]

30,000 showed

64,970,000 couldn't be arsed..........

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Incomprehensible because of wrong quoting. Too many nested quotes to fix the quote tags. Deleted all quotes.

[Ricardo]

Corruption at the time of Thaksin's administration was described as across the board, "Unprecedented", by someone who was in a position to know, the Auditor-General.

Wasn't that the lady who was too effective for TRT, so Thaksin tried to have her fired & someone more-malleable appointed, going so far as to change the locks on her office-door ? But she rightly refused to give-in to political-pressure, and her 'successor' was not confirmed by the higher-authority, and eventually she managed to hang-on to her important job ?

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote three nested posts.

[Emptyset]

Wasn't that the lady who was too effective for TRT, so Thaksin tried to have her fired & someone more-malleable appointed, going so far as to change the locks on her office-door ?...

Hmm... why not name her so people can make their own minds up? "Khun Ying Jaruvan Maintaka (Thai: คุณหญิง จารุวรรณ เมณฑกา, born 5 July 1945^[1]) is the current Auditor-General (Thai: ผู้ว่าการตรวจเงินแผ่นดิน) of the Kingdom of Thailand. She refused to resign her position after the Constitutional Court of Thailand ruled that her nomination was illegal. She is well known for her public criticism of deposed Premier Thaksin Shinawatra. She has been criticized for nepotism, hiring her own son as a personal secretary using the state budget, bringing her children on a state-funded official trip, and her lack of transparency."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaruvan_Maintaka

"Jaruvan and Pisit are both accused of abusing their power by claiming allowances for a non-existent seminar, when in reality they attended a religious ceremony held to present robes to Buddhist monks, which does not entitle them to per diem payments. This inquiry is the latest misfortune to hit the Office of the Auditor-General, which was already embroiled in a fierce tussle between Jaruvan and Pisit, who are both claiming mandate for the same position."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/09/15/politics/Jaruvan-Pisit-face-graft-inquiry-30138008.html

http://asiancorrespondent.com/41716/the-eternal-auditor-general-why-the-duck-lady-wont-retire-that-easily/

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote four nested posts.

[sillybilly]

Just quick questions for a newbie...

What would happen to Jatuporn if he was voted out of parliment?? Where is he from and how was he voted in? Is it at all possible he may get voted out at the next election??

If he is using Thaksins help I wonder what would happen should they ever have a falling out.

[SantiSuk]

...Here we go again, Red Shirts were not allowed to block traffic or streets and that is exactly what they are now doing. So why is it being allowed? This country is completely lawless when it suits them.

I'm not an apologist for Red mayhem in 2010, but demos like this are not the affront to democracy that the anti-Red brigade on TV make them out to be. Every demo in every first world country results in roads being blocked off and traffic stopped. It's a normal part of the checks and balances on government that an opposition makes.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. (Click on the back-link of the quote to see the full text, if desired)

[thaihome]

Just quick questions for a newbie...

What would happen to Jatuporn if he was voted out of parliment?? Where is he from and how was he voted in? Is it at all possible he may get voted out at the next election??

If he is using Thaksins help I wonder what would happen should they ever have a falling out.

Jatuporn is a party list MP elected based on the percentage of vote the PTP won in the December 2007 election. He is from Surat Thani and would stand no chance to being elected as constituency MP as Suthep’s Thaugsuban family controls the province as was shown in the recent by-election in which Suthep won an overwhelming victory.

In addition, Jatuporn while in the TRT cabinet directed the police to use force to break up a farmers protest about him reneging on deal to give them titles to their land. He is not a popular figure in his home province.

TH

[aznyron]

the Thais in my village love the X PM Thaksin so I guess it who you talk to & what financial scale they are on most poor & uneducated support Taksin that does not mean they are stupid they vote there pocket books which most people do I also see a connection with the thai baht & the poor while thai bankers are making wind fall profits the poor are going hungry small business are hurting expats are even pulling there belt strap tighter I know I am & no one in high places want to do any thing about it so who at fault I remember when yellow shirts shut down the airport no one was shot or jailed but when red shirts demonstrated shots were fired & red shirts went to jail. speaking for my self I know I am looking to leave I no longer want to live here I hope to be gone before 2012 rings in & if my wish should come true I will never return to the LOS & I am willing to bet many more expats will leave & I suspect that what the Government want that why they let baht get strong while they profit from it correction while they inflate the baht I don;t believe the baht is strong that is my opinion & I stand by it you all can believe what you want

[jackr]

Farangs that live in Bangkok are the same as Thais that are from Bangkok. Ignorant about the rest of Thailand. I have been all over Thailand and I can a sure you that I have only met handful of people outside of Bangkok that don't like the Red side of the political problem here in Thailand.

So you have personally met umpteen million people have you? Have another case of Chang.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Firstly, were you there, or are your estimates based on pictures?...

Police tend to underestimate but there's is the best 'count' we have - and now we have some posters saying'not even 10,000' like they are some kind of expert so we have hype and propaganda on both sides - some say 50,000 some tonkas on here say 10,000 so let's go with the Police's offcial estimate? 30,000 (and probably underestimated).

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote two nested posts.

[ChiangMaiFun]

So you have personally met umpteen million people have you? Have another case of Chang.

I actually met a yellow shirt supporter here the other day - and I must say that is very rare - the most yellow supporters I have ever met are on here posting on TV!

edit: spl

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote two nested posts.

[mca]

At least none of the recent European protests have had armed protesters.

I wouldn't say that.

[dobadoy]

1,000 police provided security for the demonstration.

:lol:

Edited January 10, 2011 by dobadoy

[supaprik]

First of all I want to say that the numbers given by the police are nothing but government propaganda - but this is nothing new...

thank you for some sanity in your post, words fail me in reading or responding to some other stupid stuff written in here, i was at the rally and whilst I can't quite agree with your figure of 50,000 plus 100% for sure it was upwards of 30,000 AS REPORTED

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote the entire lengthy post.

[JackSterling]

What a shame..

A lot of innocent people will die during the upcoming civil war that Thailand seems to be facing....

The cards seem to have been dealt.. now we will see who are the men and who are the boys..

Meantime.. "What is that girls phone number??

"She sure is pretty!"

[hardy1943]

So you have personally met umpteen million people have you? Have another case of Chang.

Not having another case of Chang how about an election by the people over a year ago maybe all could have been avoided. Why are they so scared to hold a real election?

I do not care either way but I tell you I live up North and you can not find a yellow shirt with a fine tooth comb.

Edited January 10, 2011 by Maestro
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote two nested posts.