'The Principle Of It'

[deejah]

so many frustrations and conflicts can be avoided

once one is aware of this and can act accordingly

things operate here on a different level

time and money among many other things are perceived very differently here

as well as how well something should function or work

my best advice, if i could only take it myself

be as flexible as possible

there are unlimited annoyances but

there is plenty of upside to being here

note to self

read and reread this post as much as possible

[Chunky1]

There are very few annoyances here for me. Care to name a few?

[justaphase]

Just good and bad things about here the same as everywhere else.

Here though, the good things FAR outweigh the bad.

Just let it flow.

[MJP]

Just good and bad things about here the same as everywhere else.

Here though, the good things FAR outweigh the bad.

Just let it flow.

No.

Don't do that, you'll fall into some extremely expensive traps, life changing ones. Here the falang must think with head and not heart and do not be so sympathetic towards 'cultural differences', especially when it involves your hard earned cash.

Wield a big stick when required to do so.

Those who get it right here live in paradise. Those that get it wrong live in hell.

[geriatrickid]

Just good and bad things about here the same as everywhere else.

Here though, the good things FAR outweigh the bad.

Just let it flow.

No.

Don't do that, you'll fall into some extremely expensive traps, life changing ones. Here the falang must think with head and not heart and do not be so sympathetic towards 'cultural differences', especially when it involves your hard earned cash.

Wield a big stick when required to do so.

Those who get it right here live in paradise. Those that get it wrong live in hell.

You will get slammed for writing that, but I think you have it right even though I am unable to to fully comply. Where I go wrong is that I often cave in, just like so many others do. Sometimes its that inherent sense of right and wrong that many of us have, the compassion aspect. At other times, its a way of buying some peace against the constant barrage of "must have", "why not" and "this is Thailand and what we do". My looming crisis coming at me like a slow moving freight train at 1 km/h is the issue of family living with me. I so do not want someone's mom living in the same house as me. Even though she is older than me, I just can't handle it. We've already had the first serious discussion. I've stated my side of the argument that even though I have an elderly fatherly, the man would never dream of moving in with any of his kids. Independence and all that. That doesn't mean I didn't do chores for him or call or visit. My grandmother lived on her own right up until she died. And yet, the argument here is that the children must look after the parent by being present 24/7. I said, keeping separate living space doesn't mean neglect or abandonment, it means keeping my sanity and the answer was "cannot". I want to walk around in my boxers or if I am feeling really naughty, naked. It's not something I can do if there is the MIL or staff standing about. I value my privacy and yet, I watch as this belief vital to my way of life comes under attack. I might cave in to keep the peace, but I know this will sow the seeds of misery and bickering. I am very typical of some foreigners where we take on too many things that we are just not geared for.

Another argument is the handling of debt. I don't take on debt and I don't spend if I don't have the cash. That's just me and I have the luxury of no kids. However, try and explain that to someone that is demanding a car. Can you afford the car payments I ask. No problem is the reply. Really I ask? You have never made a household budget and yet after we calculated your monthly expenses a while back, you were spending 40,000 baht per monh and your income really doesn't cover that... The response? The classic smile and "you don't understand". So much for that university education and management position the person has, Right. I don't understand. Am I alone on this? Nope. Am I the classic case of the foreigner that just assumed that a person's education and a good job indicated common sense? You bet. Sometimes, i think the bar girl or som tam vendor that has led a hard scrabble life and that has has had to make ends meet has more in common with the a hard working foreigner than a "respectable" lady.

[MJP]

You will get slammed for writing that, but I think you have it right even though I am unable to to fully comply. Where I go wrong is that I often cave in, just like so many others do. Sometimes its that inherent sense of right and wrong that many of us have, the compassion aspect. At other times, its a way of buying some peace against the constant barrage of "must have", "why not" and "this is Thailand and what we do". My looming crisis coming at me like a slow moving freight train at 1 km/h is the issue of family living with me. I so do not want someone's mom living in the same house as me. Even though she is older than me, I just can't handle it. We've already had the first serious discussion. I've stated my side of the argument that even though I have an elderly fatherly, the man would never dream of moving in with any of his kids. Independence and all that. That doesn't mean I didn't do chores for him or call or visit. My grandmother lived on her own right up until she died. And yet, the argument here is that the children must look after the parent by being present 24/7. I said, keeping separate living space doesn't mean neglect or abandonment, it means keeping my sanity and the answer was "cannot". I want to walk around in my boxers or if I am feeling really naughty, naked. It's not something I can do if there is the MIL or staff standing about. I value my privacy and yet, I watch as this belief vital to my way of life comes under attack. I might cave in to keep the peace, but I know this will sow the seeds of misery and bickering. I am very typical of some foreigners where we take on too many things that we are just not geared for.

Another argument is the handling of debt. I don't take on debt and I don't spend if I don't have the cash. That's just me and I have the luxury of no kids. However, try and explain that to someone that is demanding a car. Can you afford the car payments I ask. No problem is the reply. Really I ask? You have never made a household budget and yet after we calculated your monthly expenses a while back, you were spending 40,000 baht per monh and your income really doesn't cover that... The response? The classic smile and "you don't understand". So much for that university education and management position the person has, Right. I don't understand. Am I alone on this? Nope. Am I the classic case of the foreigner that just assumed that a person's education and a good job indicated common sense? You bet. Sometimes, i think the bar girl or som tam vendor that has led a hard scrabble life and that has has had to make ends meet has more in common with the a hard working foreigner than a "respectable" lady.

Your words echo those of my friend from New York, lives in the next village. Now see, I did this very young and eventually handled it correctly by not caving in, battle commences for a few hundred thousand dollars. My stick is bigger. Much, much bigger.

But for the recently retired this is their last dance, so they need to get it right or many shall spend their autumn years in a state of perpetual misery.

Rule 1. Do not spend more than you are willing to give away.

Rule 2. Only buy property if you have a child here and put it all in the kids names. Otherwise rent.

Rule 3. Locate yourselves more than two standard deviations away from the family village by either tuk tuk or Honda Click.

Rule 4. Understand and comprehend the real meaning of the word 'investment'. An investment returns dividends.

Rule 5. They were all surviving before you got there so you don't make a lot of difference in the scheme of things. You are not an NGO, unless you happen to actually be an NGO. Do not create a situation where they really will fail if you were to go, create sustainable lifestyles (keep 'em working!).

Rule 6. Buying Lao Kao for villagers does nothing for their health and wellbeing, don't do it. Falang Keeneow!

Rule 7. Set boundaries wide and expectations low from the get go!

Rule 8, 9, 10 . . . you get the idea.

Edited January 10, 2011 by astral
No need to quote the entire post. Just pick out the relevant points, please - Astral

[Chunky1]

"I'm sorry if you're having girl problems son, I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one"

-Shawn Carter

[MJP]

"I'm sorry if you're having girl problems son, I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one"

-Shawn Carter

Chunky, if I didn't have any bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

Or as one old Bristolian boy put it to me a couple of decades ago 'Th'ese makes th'ese own luck!'

Never truer a word spoken especially out 'ere.

[JurgenG]

Don't do that, you'll fall into some extremely expensive traps, life changing ones. Here the falang must think with head and not heart

Remind me something I read somewhere Thailand is a dream country ... but not made for dreamers

and do not be so sympathetic towards 'cultural differences'

The secret of most successful diaspora is they never forget their own culture.

To be respectful of others' culture is one thing, to forget his own an other.

And I fully agree with your next post (#7)

Edited January 10, 2011 by JurgenG

[Ijustwannateach]

GK, if you are not already married, slow down or stop. You are clearly having boundary-setting problems in your relationship, and the responsibility to set those boundaries is just as clearly yours. No one else can do it for you, and it is irresponsible to expect your spouse or in-laws to help you with this if you haven't drawn firm lines and discussed limits already. This isn't, largely, about Thailand or Thais- people in other countries have disputes over whether in-laws should be allowed to live with them, or what kinds of purchases can be made with shared income- and just as in those countries it has to be a two way street if you are both going to be happy (this and next are my nod to the topic, btw).

One thing that does make this harder is certain local cultural expectations and habits; it is quite common for a certain sort of wealthier Thai man here to be the tribal motherlode, if he lets himself become so- it is a sign of privilege and status that the nouveaux riches and those who wish to appear so flaunt. There are much more frugal and successful models, however, starting with 'marrying within your own social class' (my nod to Heng) to 'marrying someone sensible and sensitive to your needs'. Those require you to be a bit more selective from the outset, though, and if you weren't thinking of such things initially you may find that new demands of economic or social intelligence from your spouse/in-laws are beyond their capabilities or intentions for compliance.

As with all boundary-setting, starting down that road with little prior history in the relationship may be a deal-breaker- if those demands weren't there when your partner made crucial decisions about commitment to you, it is rather sneaky- from their point of view- to spring them now. But not to do so will inevitably make you feel miserable and trapped, and if there is any chance to make your relationship more mutually satisfying, now is the time. If things go well, fine.

If not... make sure next time around you show your true colours from the outset. If you find that you are reluctant to do so because of an uncomfortable instinct that to do so might automatically eliminate you from consideration of your potential mates, then it is time to do some soul-searching about self-esteem and what it is that is drawing you to types that only find you acceptable when you are not standing up for yourself. There IS a decent non-gold-digging person here for you, if only you are looking for one. Good luck either way.

[MJP]

GK, if you are not already married, slow down or stop. You are clearly having boundary-setting problems in your relationship, and the responsibility to set those boundaries is just as clearly yours. No one else can do it for you, and it is irresponsible to expect your spouse or in-laws to help you with this if you haven't drawn firm lines and discussed limits already. This isn't, largely, about Thailand or Thais- people in other countries have disputes over whether in-laws should be allowed to live with them, or what kinds of purchases can be made with shared income- and just as in those countries it has to be a two way street if you are both going to be happy (this and next are my nod to the topic, btw).

One thing that does make this harder is certain local cultural expectations and habits; it is quite common for a certain sort of wealthier Thai man here to be the tribal motherlode, if he lets himself become so- it is a sign of privilege and status that the nouveaux riches and those who wish to appear so flaunt. There are much more frugal and successful models, however, starting with 'marrying within your own social class' (my nod to Heng) to 'marrying someone sensible and sensitive to your needs'. Those require you to be a bit more selective from the outset, though, and if you weren't thinking of such things initially you may find that new demands of economic or social intelligence from your spouse/in-laws are beyond their capabilities or intentions for compliance.

As with all boundary-setting, starting down that road with little prior history in the relationship may be a deal-breaker- if those demands weren't there when your partner made crucial decisions about commitment to you, it is rather sneaky- from their point of view- to spring them now. But not to do so will inevitably make you feel miserable and trapped, and if there is any chance to make your relationship more mutually satisfying, now is the time. If things go well, fine.

If not... make sure next time around you show your true colours from the outset. If you find that you are reluctant to do so because of an uncomfortable instinct that to do so might automatically eliminate you from consideration of your potential mates, then it is time to do some soul-searching about self-esteem and what it is that is drawing you to types that only find you acceptable when you are not standing up for yourself. There IS a decent non-gold-digging person here for you, if only you are looking for one. Good luck either way.

Yup. Good advice.

You know you don't have to be in a relationship to live here, especially if you're on a retirement visa. As the OP states there are real benefits to living here and it is possible to enjoy all the nice things about the country, of which there are so many, without become involved. I'd also recommend resisting all attraction to the darker, seedier aspects which in my opinion are very risky both physically and mentally.

Ian Forbes seems to have cracked it, his posts are always written without a hint of stress, pressure or anxiety. Like little rays of sunshine so there are.

[OxfordWill]

"The principal of it" is seldom a piece of thinking worth encouraging.

Edited January 11, 2011 by OxfordWill

[F1fanatic]

GK, if you are not already married, slow down or stop. You are clearly having boundary-setting problems in your relationship, and the responsibility to set those boundaries is just as clearly yours. No one else can do it for you, and it is irresponsible to expect your spouse or in-laws to help you with this if you haven't drawn firm lines and discussed limits already. This isn't, largely, about Thailand or Thais- people in other countries have disputes over whether in-laws should be allowed to live with them, or what kinds of purchases can be made with shared income- and just as in those countries it has to be a two way street if you are both going to be happy (this and next are my nod to the topic, btw).

One thing that does make this harder is certain local cultural expectations and habits; it is quite common for a certain sort of wealthier Thai man here to be the tribal motherlode, if he lets himself become so- it is a sign of privilege and status that the nouveaux riches and those who wish to appear so flaunt. There are much more frugal and successful models, however, starting with 'marrying within your own social class' (my nod to Heng) to 'marrying someone sensible and sensitive to your needs'. Those require you to be a bit more selective from the outset, though, and if you weren't thinking of such things initially you may find that new demands of economic or social intelligence from your spouse/in-laws are beyond their capabilities or intentions for compliance.

As with all boundary-setting, starting down that road with little prior history in the relationship may be a deal-breaker- if those demands weren't there when your partner made crucial decisions about commitment to you, it is rather sneaky- from their point of view- to spring them now. But not to do so will inevitably make you feel miserable and trapped, and if there is any chance to make your relationship more mutually satisfying, now is the time. If things go well, fine.

If not... make sure next time around you show your true colours from the outset. If you find that you are reluctant to do so because of an uncomfortable instinct that to do so might automatically eliminate you from consideration of your potential mates, then it is time to do some soul-searching about self-esteem and what it is that is drawing you to types that only find you acceptable when you are not standing up for yourself. There IS a decent non-gold-digging person here for you, if only you are looking for one. Good luck either way.

Yup. Good advice.

You know you don't have to be in a relationship to live here, especially if you're on a retirement visa. As the OP states there are real benefits to living here and it is possible to enjoy all the nice things about the country, of which there are so many, without become involved. I'd also recommend resisting all attraction to the darker, seedier aspects which in my opinion are very risky both physically and mentally.

Ian Forbes seems to have cracked it, his posts are always written without a hint of stress, pressure or anxiety. Like little rays of sunshine so there are.

But one of the joys of living here for most ex-pats is the easy availability of women!

Few will appreciate the other good things.

I've been here a few years but only met one man that had the sense not to marry someone (even though he's been here for over 20 years!) - he rents.

[MJP]

GK, if you are not already married, slow down or stop. You are clearly having boundary-setting problems in your relationship, and the responsibility to set those boundaries is just as clearly yours. No one else can do it for you, and it is irresponsible to expect your spouse or in-laws to help you with this if you haven't drawn firm lines and discussed limits already. This isn't, largely, about Thailand or Thais- people in other countries have disputes over whether in-laws should be allowed to live with them, or what kinds of purchases can be made with shared income- and just as in those countries it has to be a two way street if you are both going to be happy (this and next are my nod to the topic, btw).

One thing that does make this harder is certain local cultural expectations and habits; it is quite common for a certain sort of wealthier Thai man here to be the tribal motherlode, if he lets himself become so- it is a sign of privilege and status that the nouveaux riches and those who wish to appear so flaunt. There are much more frugal and successful models, however, starting with 'marrying within your own social class' (my nod to Heng) to 'marrying someone sensible and sensitive to your needs'. Those require you to be a bit more selective from the outset, though, and if you weren't thinking of such things initially you may find that new demands of economic or social intelligence from your spouse/in-laws are beyond their capabilities or intentions for compliance.

As with all boundary-setting, starting down that road with little prior history in the relationship may be a deal-breaker- if those demands weren't there when your partner made crucial decisions about commitment to you, it is rather sneaky- from their point of view- to spring them now. But not to do so will inevitably make you feel miserable and trapped, and if there is any chance to make your relationship more mutually satisfying, now is the time. If things go well, fine.

If not... make sure next time around you show your true colours from the outset. If you find that you are reluctant to do so because of an uncomfortable instinct that to do so might automatically eliminate you from consideration of your potential mates, then it is time to do some soul-searching about self-esteem and what it is that is drawing you to types that only find you acceptable when you are not standing up for yourself. There IS a decent non-gold-digging person here for you, if only you are looking for one. Good luck either way.

Yup. Good advice.

You know you don't have to be in a relationship to live here, especially if you're on a retirement visa. As the OP states there are real benefits to living here and it is possible to enjoy all the nice things about the country, of which there are so many, without become involved. I'd also recommend resisting all attraction to the darker, seedier aspects which in my opinion are very risky both physically and mentally.

Ian Forbes seems to have cracked it, his posts are always written without a hint of stress, pressure or anxiety. Like little rays of sunshine so there are.

But one of the joys of living here for most ex-pats is the easy availability of women!

Few will appreciate the other good things.

I've been here a few years but only met one man that had the sense not to marry someone (even though he's been here for over 20 years!) - he rents.

Yup for many, not all. I did it when I was 26 and life was moving at a ludicrous pace.

Now I get to enjoy decorating and gardening and raising the kids. It's been very tough the past two years (I know what Jurgen G is on about), but looking at it I could never have been able to afford to do these quite normal things in the UK (house price bubble) . . . so I look on the bright side.

For all it's woes, right now it hasn't turned out too bad, very calm now and sure beats living on some grotty remediation site in a hut in cold, damp and filth somewhere usually ghastly . . . if there even was any work. Which there ain't. So I'm very grateful for living in a nice house no mortgage or rent and running the lot on a few of hundred quid a month, living pretty well too.

Swings . . . and . . . roundabouts. Life goes on.

To be honest, so long as the kids are alright I really couldn't care less. Always been a 'no fixed abode' hobo type, always will.

But the advice above in Post 7 still stands and before that it's best in my opinion not to get involved. I do know one expat been here 20 years, not married, single, has a successful business, quite happy.

[F1fanatic]

GK, if you are not already married, slow down or stop. You are clearly having boundary-setting problems in your relationship, and the responsibility to set those boundaries is just as clearly yours. No one else can do it for you, and it is irresponsible to expect your spouse or in-laws to help you with this if you haven't drawn firm lines and discussed limits already. This isn't, largely, about Thailand or Thais- people in other countries have disputes over whether in-laws should be allowed to live with them, or what kinds of purchases can be made with shared income- and just as in those countries it has to be a two way street if you are both going to be happy (this and next are my nod to the topic, btw).

One thing that does make this harder is certain local cultural expectations and habits; it is quite common for a certain sort of wealthier Thai man here to be the tribal motherlode, if he lets himself become so- it is a sign of privilege and status that the nouveaux riches and those who wish to appear so flaunt. There are much more frugal and successful models, however, starting with 'marrying within your own social class' (my nod to Heng) to 'marrying someone sensible and sensitive to your needs'. Those require you to be a bit more selective from the outset, though, and if you weren't thinking of such things initially you may find that new demands of economic or social intelligence from your spouse/in-laws are beyond their capabilities or intentions for compliance.

As with all boundary-setting, starting down that road with little prior history in the relationship may be a deal-breaker- if those demands weren't there when your partner made crucial decisions about commitment to you, it is rather sneaky- from their point of view- to spring them now. But not to do so will inevitably make you feel miserable and trapped, and if there is any chance to make your relationship more mutually satisfying, now is the time. If things go well, fine.

If not... make sure next time around you show your true colours from the outset. If you find that you are reluctant to do so because of an uncomfortable instinct that to do so might automatically eliminate you from consideration of your potential mates, then it is time to do some soul-searching about self-esteem and what it is that is drawing you to types that only find you acceptable when you are not standing up for yourself. There IS a decent non-gold-digging person here for you, if only you are looking for one. Good luck either way.

Yup. Good advice.

You know you don't have to be in a relationship to live here, especially if you're on a retirement visa. As the OP states there are real benefits to living here and it is possible to enjoy all the nice things about the country, of which there are so many, without become involved. I'd also recommend resisting all attraction to the darker, seedier aspects which in my opinion are very risky both physically and mentally.

Ian Forbes seems to have cracked it, his posts are always written without a hint of stress, pressure or anxiety. Like little rays of sunshine so there are.

But one of the joys of living here for most ex-pats is the easy availability of women!

Few will appreciate the other good things.

I've been here a few years but only met one man that had the sense not to marry someone (even though he's been here for over 20 years!) - he rents.

Yup for many, not all. I did it when I was 26 and life was moving at a ludicrous pace.

Now I get to enjoy decorating and gardening and raising the kids. It's been very tough the past two years (I know what Jurgen G is on about), but looking at it I could never have been able to afford to do these quite normal things in the UK (house price bubble) . . . so I look on the bright side.

For all it's woes, right now it hasn't turned out too bad, very calm now and sure beats living on some grotty remediation site in a hut in cold, damp and filth somewhere usually ghastly . . . if there even was any work. Which there ain't. So I'm very grateful for living in a nice house no mortgage or rent and running the lot on a few of hundred quid a month, living pretty well too.

Swings . . . and . . . roundabouts. Life goes on.

To be honest, so long as the kids are alright I really couldn't care less. Always been a 'no fixed abode' hobo type, always will.

But the advice above in Post 7 still stands and before that it's best in my opinion not to get involved. I do know one expat been here 20 years, not married, single, has a successful business, quite happy.

Hi MJP. You prove my point - one has to 'get over' the easy availability of women to enjoy the real beauty of Thailand!

[WarpSpeed]

Just good and bad things about here the same as everywhere else.

Here though, the good things FAR outweigh the bad.

Just let it flow.

No.

Don't do that, you'll fall into some extremely expensive traps, life changing ones. Here the falang must think with head and not heart and do not be so sympathetic towards 'cultural differences', especially when it involves your hard earned cash.

Wield a big stick when required to do so.

Those who get it right here live in paradise. Those that get it wrong live in hell.

Yes so true and I can only imagine the kind of overpriced dumps most people who live here must have lived in before coming here to think this is such a great place and paradise to live in.. Speaks volumes really...

Edited January 11, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

"I'm sorry if you're having girl problems son, I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one"

-Shawn Carter

Chunky, if I didn't have any bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all.

Or as one old Bristolian boy put it to me a couple of decades ago 'Th'ese makes th'ese own luck!'

Never truer a word spoken especially out 'ere.

Hmmmmmm, l was born a Bristolion, must think about that. ,

[MJP]

Yup. Good advice.

You know you don't have to be in a relationship to live here, especially if you're on a retirement visa. As the OP states there are real benefits to living here and it is possible to enjoy all the nice things about the country, of which there are so many, without become involved. I'd also recommend resisting all attraction to the darker, seedier aspects which in my opinion are very risky both physically and mentally.

Ian Forbes seems to have cracked it, his posts are always written without a hint of stress, pressure or anxiety. Like little rays of sunshine so there are.

But one of the joys of living here for most ex-pats is the easy availability of women!

Few will appreciate the other good things.

I've been here a few years but only met one man that had the sense not to marry someone (even though he's been here for over 20 years!) - he rents.

Yup for many, not all. I did it when I was 26 and life was moving at a ludicrous pace.

Now I get to enjoy decorating and gardening and raising the kids. It's been very tough the past two years (I know what Jurgen G is on about), but looking at it I could never have been able to afford to do these quite normal things in the UK (house price bubble) . . . so I look on the bright side.

For all it's woes, right now it hasn't turned out too bad, very calm now and sure beats living on some grotty remediation site in a hut in cold, damp and filth somewhere usually ghastly . . . if there even was any work. Which there ain't. So I'm very grateful for living in a nice house no mortgage or rent and running the lot on a few of hundred quid a month, living pretty well too.

Swings . . . and . . . roundabouts. Life goes on.

To be honest, so long as the kids are alright I really couldn't care less. Always been a 'no fixed abode' hobo type, always will.

But the advice above in Post 7 still stands and before that it's best in my opinion not to get involved. I do know one expat been here 20 years, not married, single, has a successful business, quite happy.

Hi MJP. You prove my point - one has to 'get over' the easy availability of women to enjoy the real beauty of Thailand!

Hello petal!

Yup!!! Indeed.

[justaphase]

Just good and bad things about here the same as everywhere else.

Here though, the good things FAR outweigh the bad.

Just let it flow.

No.

Don't do that, you'll fall into some extremely expensive traps, life changing ones. Here the falang must think with head and not heart and do not be so sympathetic towards 'cultural differences', especially when it involves your hard earned cash.

Wield a big stick when required to do so.

Those who get it right here live in paradise. Those that get it wrong live in hell.

Yes so true and I can only imagine the kind of dumps most people who live here must have lived in before coming here to think this is such a great place and paradise to live in.. Speaks volumes really...

It's far from my idea of paradise.. but life for me is good here. Came here when i was 29, so I've had no "who's gonna steal me pension" worries either.

You guys make such a big deal about "protecting" your money. Yet the girls still manage to get it from you....

[WarpSpeed]

Just good and bad things about here the same as everywhere else.

Here though, the good things FAR outweigh the bad.

Just let it flow.

No.

Don't do that, you'll fall into some extremely expensive traps, life changing ones. Here the falang must think with head and not heart and do not be so sympathetic towards 'cultural differences', especially when it involves your hard earned cash.

Wield a big stick when required to do so.

Those who get it right here live in paradise. Those that get it wrong live in hell.

Yes so true and I can only imagine the kind of dumps most people who live here must have lived in before coming here to think this is such a great place and paradise to live in.. Speaks volumes really...

It's far from my idea of paradise.. but life for me is good here. Came here when i was 29, so I've had no "who's gonna steal me pension" worries either.

You guys make such a big deal about "protecting" your money. Yet the girls still manage to get it from you....

What guys are your referring too?? I'm married, been happily married for almost 8 years (the entire time I've been here) and 2 intelligent, handsome young boys to our credit and she's not Thai either..

[MJP]

Just good and bad things about here the same as everywhere else.

Here though, the good things FAR outweigh the bad.

Just let it flow.

No.

Don't do that, you'll fall into some extremely expensive traps, life changing ones. Here the falang must think with head and not heart and do not be so sympathetic towards 'cultural differences', especially when it involves your hard earned cash.

Wield a big stick when required to do so.

Those who get it right here live in paradise. Those that get it wrong live in hell.

Yes so true and I can only imagine the kind of dumps most people who live here must have lived in before coming here to think this is such a great place and paradise to live in.. Speaks volumes really...

It's far from my idea of paradise.. but life for me is good here. Came here when i was 29, so I've had no "who's gonna steal me pension" worries either.

You guys make such a big deal about "protecting" your money. Yet the girls still manage to get it from you....

That's not an unfair comment and this transcends the whole spectrum of men that do start what many of them think are real relationships.

If you have children to support, it's a completely different matter as you know that if they don't succeed in this country or are well established the potential consequences can be pretty horrifying.

[justaphase]

That's not an unfair comment and this transcends the whole spectrum of men that do start what many of them think are real relationships.

If you have children to support, it's a completely different matter as you know that if they don't succeed in this country or are well established the potential consequences can be pretty horrifying.

Well said.

It's the "20 - year - age - gap - oh - look - i - married - a - hooker - I'll buy her a 2 million baht house in Isaan brigade that makes me laugh.. AND they keep coming here...

[MJP]

That's not an unfair comment and this transcends the whole spectrum of men that do start what many of them think are real relationships.

If you have children to support, it's a completely different matter as you know that if they don't succeed in this country or are well established the potential consequences can be pretty horrifying.

Well said.

It's the "20 - year - age - gap - oh - look - i - married - a - hooker - I'll buy her a 2 million baht house in Isaan brigade that makes me laugh.. AND they keep coming here...

Yup. :jap:

[Kwasaki]

Therapy is available.

I am the best .

Edited January 11, 2011 by Kwasaki

[deejah]

"The principal of it" is seldom a piece of thinking worth encouraging.

i am pretty sure i dont agree with you

but i am really not sure what you mean

can you clarify please?

are you quoting House?

principle along with integrity

(not to mention so many more important morals so lacking in the general populace not just in thailand)

are high ideals very much worth striving for as individuals and as a human race IMHO

it could be argued that these ideals are our destiny should we ever rise above the law of the jungle

Edited January 14, 2011 by deejah

[deejah]

Therapy is available.

I am the best .

and humble too

i am not sure who's post you are offering you services to

[OxfordWill]

"The principal of it" is seldom a piece of thinking worth encouraging.

i am pretty sure i dont agree with you

but i am really not sure what you mean

can you clarify please?

are you quoting House?

principle along with integrity

(not to mention so many more important morals so lacking in the general populace not just in thailand)

are high ideals very much worth striving for as individuals and as a human race IMHO

it could be argued that these ideals are our destiny should we ever rise above the law of the jungle

The sentence in question usually comes from a moral outlook known as moral absolutism. It does not allow for situations in which killing one evil person might save ten thousand innocent people (if you subsribce to "killing is wrong (in principal)". This and other reasons I won't bore you with are why I don't like the position. It doesn't allow for circumstances (hence "absolute")

This is not to say I am a moral relativist.

Edited January 17, 2011 by OxfordWill

[IanForbes]

You will get slammed for writing that, but I think you have it right even though I am unable to to fully comply. Where I go wrong is that I often cave in, just like so many others do. Sometimes its that inherent sense of right and wrong that many of us have, the compassion aspect. At other times, its a way of buying some peace against the constant barrage of "must have", "why not" and "this is Thailand and what we do". My looming crisis coming at me like a slow moving freight train at 1 km/h is the issue of family living with me. I so do not want someone's mom living in the same house as me. Even though she is older than me, I just can't handle it. We've already had the first serious discussion. I've stated my side of the argument that even though I have an elderly fatherly, the man would never dream of moving in with any of his kids. Independence and all that. That doesn't mean I didn't do chores for him or call or visit. My grandmother lived on her own right up until she died. And yet, the argument here is that the children must look after the parent by being present 24/7. I said, keeping separate living space doesn't mean neglect or abandonment, it means keeping my sanity and the answer was "cannot". I want to walk around in my boxers or if I am feeling really naughty, naked. It's not something I can do if there is the MIL or staff standing about. I value my privacy and yet, I watch as this belief vital to my way of life comes under attack. I might cave in to keep the peace, but I know this will sow the seeds of misery and bickering. I am very typical of some foreigners where we take on too many things that we are just not geared for.

Another argument is the handling of debt. I don't take on debt and I don't spend if I don't have the cash. That's just me and I have the luxury of no kids. However, try and explain that to someone that is demanding a car. Can you afford the car payments I ask. No problem is the reply. Really I ask? You have never made a household budget and yet after we calculated your monthly expenses a while back, you were spending 40,000 baht per monh and your income really doesn't cover that... The response? The classic smile and "you don't understand". So much for that university education and management position the person has, Right. I don't understand. Am I alone on this? Nope. Am I the classic case of the foreigner that just assumed that a person's education and a good job indicated common sense? You bet. Sometimes, i think the bar girl or som tam vendor that has led a hard scrabble life and that has has had to make ends meet has more in common with the a hard working foreigner than a "respectable" lady.

Good reply, Gkid. Reality is what happens when you are making plans.

What you wrote can happen in any country. I had my Australian mother in law move in with my wife and family for 6 months. The woman drove me batty and I had to actually move OUT of my home and into my camper just for some peace. I have a long list of the strange things she did that I won't bore you with. Both my ex-wives had no concept of money, debt and interest. I tried so many ways to teach them and never could. It was one of the major issues of my marriages. At least my second wife was not as bad as the first wife. Now I just stay single. You can't do that if you want to raise rug-rats.

There is a stark difference between the North American family and a Thai family. In Thailand, you don't marry just the woman. You marry the whole family. In Europe and North America the kids grow up and move out when they become adults. If you've given them a good upbringing then they get jobs and raise families of their own. In Thailand you seem to have adopted lazy brothers, fathers who sit around drinking and don't work, and sisters in law that think the farang should pay for everything.

A lucky few farangs don't have that problem, but the majority do. And, there doesn't seem to be anything you can do about it. In all other situations a good wife will put up with it because it's "family" tradition.

[IanForbes]

OP's topic

so many frustrations and conflicts can be avoided

once one is aware of this and can act accordingly

things operate here on a different level

time and money among many other things are perceived very differently here

as well as how well something should function or work

my best advice, if i could only take it myself

be as flexible as possible

there are unlimited annoyances but

there is plenty of upside to being here

note to self

read and reread this post as much as possible

That applies to everywhere. And, your comment "be as flexible as possible" is certainly a standard that applies to Thailand where farangs can not own land. As I've said so many times, I'm never going to invest in something that I can't walk away from at a moments notice. A responsible married person with children can't do that, or at least SHOULDN'T do that for the children's sake.

However, different age brackets make a huge difference in what people expect out of life. A man of 60 is likely to want something entirely different than a person in their twenties.

A single person who WANTS to stay single is going to be completely different than someone who wants to get married and have children.

I love children, but I certainly don't want any more of my own. My 3 grandkids are enough for me, as well as the Thai family that I decided to take care of for the children's sake.

If some farang decides to spend hundreds, thousands or millions of baht on a Thai wife and family then that is something entirely up to them. They just shouldn't complain about it afterwards should it go wrong at some point in the game. I get value out of making people happy and ask nothing in return. But, I won't spend more than I'm not willing to lose. That is as true in Thailand as it is in North America. I have no regrets with either of my previous marriages and wouldn't change a thing.

[happyrobert]

Deejah-

could

you please

get your "return"

key repaired thank

you very

much