Bringing Up Mixed Race Kids In Thailand

[Boo]

my son does go to private school I was quite clear on why. He could go to the local nursery/reception school if the situation changes & I know he would get a decent (again, see above post) early years education, the same education he is getting now in private school. The same education my niece received at the school.

Regardless of what "decent" means to me (assuming that I don't twist "black" to mean "white" or "decent" to mean "exceptional"), it is not good enough for my kids. They deserve and will get the best that I am able to afford. If "decent" state schools in London are good enough for your child, that's your business.

Because money is of course the only factor when deciding your childs future. I see.

I think it is up to each & every parent to decide the best for their child/ren education but it certainly isn't the place of someone who has nothing but hearsay, to pass judgment on them.

[Thailaw]

Because money is of course the only factor when deciding your childs future. I see.

I think it is up to each & every parent to decide the best for their child/ren education but it certainly isn't the place of someone who has nothing but hearsay, to pass judgment on them.

No, money is not a factor (at least not to me) in deciding what is the best school for my children -- my daughters will get the best education available regardless of the cost (to the extent of my ability to pay, which will at least handle a good private education), unlike those people that put children in "decent" state schools because (probably only because) they are "free" -- I think you got this one reversed.

There are many things I have not done and have not experienced that I have evaluated carefully and have decided are good or not good (perhaps not good for me, or perhaps not good for society, and should, therefore, in my opinion, be made illegal). I have never shot a gun, but I know from what I have read, seen and been told that they can cause serious harm. I would never have one in my home, nor would I allow my children to play with one. I don't have to shoot my daughter with a gun to realize the harm a gun or having one in my home could cause -- perhaps you do (God forbid you act on hearsay). And I will criticize any parent with small children that keeps a gun in their home, unless perhaps if they live in a high crime area and have it locked away safely. I have read enough authoritative sources and listened to enough individuals whose opinions I respect to know that the British state school system (as well as the UK health care system) is seriously lacking, perhaps with some note-worthy exceptions. I would certainly never put one of my children into it. If people living in the UK choose to put their children in state schools it is entirely their business; it doesn't affect me in the least. If they do it due to a lack of income (i.e., they cannot afford private schools), they have my sympathy and understanding. If they can afford private schools and put their children in state schools anyway, they have my scorn. I believe I expressed an opinion, which I was asked and did support with a similar view from the Head of Independent Schools in the UK. Another poster (giruz) also says that the schools in the UK his children are in are terrible ("I currently live in East London (working for a major bank) and around me schools are far from good. We are thinking about moving and settling but unsure where to go") and he has no idea where to go to solve the problem. Then you come along with your post saying that there is "a needle (i.e., good schools) in the haystack (i.e., the UK state school system)" if you can just find the right catchment (assuming you even know which one is "right" and you can afford a US$450,000 home). You (perhaps unknowingly) proved my point. And I didn't pass "judgment" on anyone -- perhaps my statement above regarding "scorn" is judgment, but I doubt that very many would receive my scorn, because I doubt that many Brits that can afford private schools have their children in state schools -- the British private school system is thriving thanks to the condition of the state schools in the UK. If you really do care and wish to be informed, you should read more than the posts on this forum -- sometimes amusing, but seldom informative (except perhaps for mine).

[Boo]

from your posts I wonder where you wish your view to go? If someone can't afford a private school then you are sympathetic & yet think parents should do the best for their kids & not send them to a Uk state school, which is is? Maybe those who cannot afford private education not send their kids to school at all? lol. like I said, there are plenty of decent or if you like, very good, public schools in the UK, some areas have very few, some areas have very many. East London is well known to all Londoners to be a very poor & badly funded area, mine & numerous others, are not. Most parents who aren't fortunate enough to be rolling in money to pay for private often make the choice to move to an area with a better choice of state school, often at great inconvenience to them for traveling for work it's a sacrifice a lot of parents are happy to make, do they get your sympathy or scorn I wonder? and yet, some can't even afford that choice. But I'm sure they will be comforted by your sympathy & pity

But back to the topic, if I were in a position to not afford a Uk curriculum bi-lingual school in Thailand then my only choice would be to move back to the UK. I know a few farang parents who don't see a problem with thai state schools for their kids, up to them but not my choice. Mainly based on me wanting my son to have a Uk based education & hearing accounts of thai friends who also send their kids to the best they can afford (usually catholic school)

[mkawish]

Won't this world be a much better place,

if there were more such devoted fathers like you.... :jap:

I retired to Thailand in 2008 aged 65 and I was going to apply for the Australain pension.

I did not have a lot of savings at that time, although I'd established a nice home and farm

for my wife and her extended family.

In February 2009 my wife unexpectedly became pregnant with our daughter, now aged 17 months.

We have now been married for 5 years.

I have two Thai stepsons aged 16 and 11.

I have had to return to Australia to get employment.

I need to save as much as I can while I'm still able to work.

I have a duty to give my children a good education.

The 16 year old wasn't interested in school but he is now helping on the family farm.

We brought the 11 year old boy with us and he attends a primary school in Perth and he loves it.

He will be finished high school by the time our daughter is of school age so we intend

to move back to Thailand then.

I'm keen to buy a house in Nakhon Sawan which is about 85 Km from the farm.

We hope to give our daughter an education at an international school there if we can afford it.

I don't want her to attend a Thai country school where corporal punishment

and bullying is rife, as well as the poor education system and unhygienic conditions.

Depending on his achievments our 11 year old may hopefully be ready for university by then.

Eventually if all goes well, our daughter could attend high school or university in Thailand or Australia.

It's a tough job at my age, but I have to do my best for them or at least die trying.

I don't want to have any regrets about opportunities they should have had, when I'm on my death bed.

One thing is for sure, our daughter has given me the motivation I need.

We are very proud of her and she is the light of our life!

[Straight8]

It's all down to you as a parent. Doesn't matter where you live.

Really, cause i totally disagree.

I would never bring up a child in thailand. Could give you many reason, but i am sure you know them all anyway.

[MikeyIdea]

No regrets whatsoever, I am glad I took the decision to move considering how big the door of opportunities I have opened up for my daughter is

I have no idea what the OP is asking, nor do I think he does. But, I seriously doubt that you have "opened a[ny] door of opportunities" for your daughter in Thailand -- that statement is, I think, a joke. Had you said that she is in Singapore, I might tend to agree (but not fully). But in a land biased against women, and a society and legal system that imposes such huge responsibilities on women (such as raising and supporting children, often alone), the chances/opportunities are not good. If you are saying that she will spend her early formative years here, isolated in a farang enclave, before you send her off to a place where she will have real opportunity for growth and development, then we agree, except for perhaps the timing. I have two young daughters, and they will grow up in the US from the age of 7 -- I would not keep them here a day beyond that, even in a "good" international school.

How do we best prepare our kids for what they will need in 20 to 60 years time? => their working life. Not by only giving them what WE needed

OP, my advice stands. Good luck with your choices

I read your post, and I don't see any "advice" in it, other than "no regrets" for bringing/raising your daughter to/in Thailand -- I will be polite and call that "naive". If you have given your daughter so many "opportunities" you should identify them (very short list, so it should not take long) so the rest of us have some idea of what (nonsense) you are talking about. Vague (meaningless) generalizations are of very little help. Work, and skills to prepare you for it, are very important, and you won't get much of those here in Thailand. This is a great place to spend the money you earned in a western job after acquiring a western education (works for me). It is not the place to be educated and to earn a living, unless you are happy earning B25k a month as a well paid "college grad" (I would estimate that a college graduate here, in Thailand, has the equivalent to a high school degree from a medium school in the west). And I stick by my statement (not really advice) that raising a child in Thailand (unless you put them in a top international school in Bangkok and then send them to university in the west, as all of the Thais with any money do) won't prepare them for anything except a job as a maid or a motorcycle taxi driver (or maybe selling cosmetics at Central) -- if that is what you want for your kid, fine (it is not really fine). I want to give my daughters more than that and more than can be found here in Thailand -- schooling is best in the west (and maybe in Singapore, as I mentioned earlier). Live in a dream and rationalize your selfish choices (at least as far as your child is concerned), but please don't try to convince people with unsupported (unsupportable) statements that childen are not missing great opportunities by being raised by ignorant parents here in Thailand. To succeed, children will need exactly what their parents needed to succeed -- a good education, thoughtful examination of ideas (probably part of a good education), and encouragement to excel and succeed. The elements that make up a good education may have changed, but the requirement for a good education in this now highly competitive "global" world has never been greater.

You can continue to say that I am naive if you want, I have no problems giving that for free. Go back to post 1 and read again thailaw, we all parents here and your argumental style would make most parents glad not to be your child

As a parent I have 3 goals; 1) I want my daughter to have a happy childhood filled with laughter 2) I want my daughter to be well prepared for what will be required of her as an adult 3) I want her to understand when it is time to just feel satisfied

Unfortunately, the world gets more and more competitive. America is leading the development in this area and also the consumption of anti-depressants. How do I prepare my daughter for what is to come? Is a good education academically going to be enough? I think not

A toddler today will finish university in 20 years time, she will then work for 40 years after that. Half way down this toddlers working life, that's 40 (forty) years from now by the way, China will be the world leader economically, India will be second and America and the EU will have struggled to stand still economically for the last 20 years. The Asian economies on overdrive driven by several billion diligent people who are pushed forward not only by the positive feeling of living in a country where things gets better every year, but also by an improved educational system will have taken over the world economy. America and the EU will still be powerful of course but it is going to be at the level of struggling to stand still.

IMO, getting a mixed education and upbringing will open up doors where most opportunities will be during our childrens working life. They will decide where to work themselves after graduating university. The problem is just that most people will not really see any opportunities in America or Europe in 20 years time and will probably not want to leave Asia. Going to an international school all the time here, they will have grown up in an expat style community without having any real roots either in "their own home country" or in Thailand. Most people need somewhere that we don't only call home but also feel home. We may be OK knowing that we're "outside and we'll always be outside" but should we assume that our kids will be OK feeling that all their lives too? This is why I don't recommend both primary and secondary education in international school. Part of the education in a good bilingual school will make a small difference academically and will give the kids the advantage of having one western foot and one eastern foot and the ability to feel at home in both societies, not only be able to bridge the cultural differences between east and west but also naturally understand them.

A good education academically is necessary but it is not enough. If it hasn't been a happy time, then it hasn't been a good time, regardless of what future success it has the potential to bring… A bit of Asia in the education and upbringing is good. There are so many sorry souls who come to Asia and can't even handle that things are not as home, not a good basis to perform well at work and at home. If nothing else, it should also protect the kid from ever becoming a bitter internet farang on ThaiVisa

Michael

[Thailaw]

from your posts I wonder where you wish your view to go? If someone can't afford a private school then you are sympathetic & yet think parents should do the best for their kids & not send them to a Uk state school, which is is? Maybe those who cannot afford private education not send their kids to school at all? lol. like I said, there are plenty of decent or if you like, very good, public schools in the UK, some areas have very few, some areas have very many. East London is well known to all Londoners to be a very poor & badly funded area, mine & numerous others, are not. Most parents who aren't fortunate enough to be rolling in money to pay for private often make the choice to move to an area with a better choice of state school, often at great inconvenience to them for traveling for work it's a sacrifice a lot of parents are happy to make, do they get your sympathy or scorn I wonder? and yet, some can't even afford that choice. But I'm sure they will be comforted by your sympathy & pity

But back to the topic, if I were in a position to not afford a Uk curriculum bi-lingual school in Thailand then my only choice would be to move back to the UK. I know a few farang parents who don't see a problem with thai state schools for their kids, up to them but not my choice. Mainly based on me wanting my son to have a Uk based education & hearing accounts of thai friends who also send their kids to the best they can afford (usually catholic school)

Boy, you do seem to struggle with the English language. Perhaps you are a product of the same UK state schools system of which you seem to be so fond and supportive.

If "someone can't afford a private school . . . [and] make the choice to move to an area with a better choice of state school, often at great inconvenience to them for traveling for work it's a sacrifice a lot of parents are happy to make," I give them a "B" for the effort. I think that follows clearly from what I have written above. They are certainly far better than the parents who "know" that schools in their area are not good and leave their kids in those schools for their own ease and convenience. I think for educated people that cannot afford private schools, the schools that their children would attend if they lived in a particular home is a big part of the house buying decision. But for many, especially the less educated, the quality of the local schools is not considered in the choice of where to live, and that is unfortunate for the children. Even if a school system is poor, that does not mean that eevry school is equal -- there will of course be differences and parents should seek out the best of what is available albeit that the vast majority of schools (being generous here) are barely adequate, i.e., "decent", using your terminology.

My original point was that private schools in Thailand, even "good" ones are not acceptable for parents that want their children to be well educated -- it is not only the school, but everything else that comes with it. If you read my posts from the beginning, I think they tell a consistent story. I got sidetracked on this UK state school issue because of a comment I made about private schools in Thailand not being as good as education choices (public or private) in the US. ("I have two young daughters, and they will grow up in the US from the age of 7 -- I would not keep them here a day beyond that, even in a "good" international school. (ExpatJ: The good international schools in bkk- NIST, Pattana are far better than public schools in US/UK.) You are of course correct regarding public schools in the UK, they are uniformly terrible. No Brit that I know would consider putting his/her children in public schools in the UK -- full stop.") This was not the main thrust of my argument nor did I distinguish between private and public schools in the west, and it was not a point that I care very much what people do or where they go with it. What people do with the educational choices for their children in the UK is entirely up to them, given the choices that are available to each of them. My key point, in response to the OP's querie, is that education, development and training in Thailand does not prepare children to do very much in life, or to excel in a particular pursuit or endeavor. There are of course exceptions or counter examples, but they are the rare and remote cases, and not what you can and should expect for a child raised and educated in Thailand. Affluent Thai parents send their children to the US or Europe for education -- for the same (obvious) reasons, I will do the same.

And it is humerous/comical that you do exactly the same thing that you acuse/criticize me of/for -- forming opinion/judgment on heresay ("I know a few farang parents who don't see a problem with Thai state schools for their kids, up to them but not my choice. Mainly based on me wanting my son to have a Uk based education [and] hearing accounts of Thai friends who also send their kids to the best they can afford (usually catholic school") -- You will make educational choices and have evaluated a school system based on "accounts of Thai friends", how outrageous! And at least here, I agree with your conclusion (I think a purely random event). But I take it one step further -- my children will from the age of about 7 (maybe 8 or 9) be educated in private schools in the US (or Switzerland, I am starting to explore that option), as the international schools in Thailand are simply not good enough. My daughter is two and one half, and has been attending a good international school in Thailand for about 6 months. We speak only English at home (was your "bi-lingual" reference meant to be a joke?). All of her books and DVDs are in English, although she does hear Thai outside the home. We are pleased with her progress thus far, but this is not a long term solution. It is not very different than putting your child in a state school in the early years (until about grade 6) and then shifting him/her to private school, as many people I know in the UK have done. Much like your example of parents who suffer a not insignificant sacrifice by traveling long distance to work so that their children can receive a "good" (actually, "better") education, I will not let my choice of where I want to live affect the quality of my daughters' education. I never enquired about the quality of the public schools in the area in which I live, because it never crossed my mind for a moment that my children would attend the public schools in this area. I gave the sacrificing parents a "B" for their effort -- where my children's education is concerned, I want (and I want to give them) an "A".

Edited January 17, 2011 by Thailaw

[xerostar]

A friend of mine attended an international school near Brienz Switzerland where she lived.

Her spoken English was perfect.

I wanted my son to attend the same school, but his mother insisted on sending him

to a Catholic boarding school in Brugg. Years later I found out that he had been abused by

the priests and was badly bullied by the other students. This treatment has affected his

whole outlook on life and he has struggled to find happiness and contentment.

IMHO I think it's the worst thing you can do to send children away to a boarding school,

especially when they're so young!

If children are to grow into well balanced adults, they want and need to be with their

parents until they are in their mid-teens.

There is no subsitute for the love, guidance and protection that children need.

Only their parents can offer this in adequate measure.

If you want them to grow up as strangers, with other peoples values, then sure, send them

off to a boarding school.

[boogie]

from your posts I wonder where you wish your view to go? If someone can't afford a private school then you are sympathetic & yet think parents should do the best for their kids & not send them to a Uk state school, which is is? Maybe those who cannot afford private education not send their kids to school at all? lol. like I said, there are plenty of decent or if you like, very good, public schools in the UK, some areas have very few, some areas have very many. East London is well known to all Londoners to be a very poor & badly funded area, mine & numerous others, are not. Most parents who aren't fortunate enough to be rolling in money to pay for private often make the choice to move to an area with a better choice of state school, often at great inconvenience to them for traveling for work it's a sacrifice a lot of parents are happy to make, do they get your sympathy or scorn I wonder? and yet, some can't even afford that choice. But I'm sure they will be comforted by your sympathy & pity

But back to the topic, if I were in a position to not afford a Uk curriculum bi-lingual school in Thailand then my only choice would be to move back to the UK. I know a few farang parents who don't see a problem with thai state schools for their kids, up to them but not my choice. Mainly based on me wanting my son to have a Uk based education & hearing accounts of thai friends who also send their kids to the best they can afford (usually catholic school)

Boy, you do seem to struggle with the English language. Perhaps you are a product of the same UK state schools system of which you seem to be so fond and supportive.

If "someone can't afford a private school . . . [and] make the choice to move to an area with a better choice of state school, often at great inconvenience to them for traveling for work it's a sacrifice a lot of parents are happy to make," I give them a "B" for the effort. I think that follows clearly from what I have written above. They are certainly far better than the parents who "know" that schools in their area are not good and leave their kids in those schools for their own ease and convenience. I think for educated people that cannot afford private schools, the schools that their children would attend if they lived in a particular home is a big part of the house buying decision. But for many, especially the less educated, the quality of the local schools is not considered in the choice of where to live, and that is unfortunate for the children. Even if a school system is poor, that does not mean that eevry school is equal -- there will of course be differences and parents should seek out the best of what is available albeit that the vast majority of schools (being generous here) are barely adequate, i.e., "decent", using your terminology.

My original point was that private schools in Thailand, even "good" ones are not acceptable for parents that want their children to be well educated -- it is not only the school, but everything else that comes with it. If you read my posts from the beginning, I think they tell a consistent story. I got sidetracked on this UK state school issue because of a comment I made about private schools in Thailand not being as good as education choices (public or private) in the US. ("I have two young daughters, and they will grow up in the US from the age of 7 -- I would not keep them here a day beyond that, even in a "good" international school. (ExpatJ: The good international schools in bkk- NIST, Pattana are far better than public schools in US/UK.) You are of course correct regarding public schools in the UK, they are uniformly terrible. No Brit that I know would consider putting his/her children in public schools in the UK -- full stop.") This was not the main thrust of my argument nor did I distinguish between private and public schools in the west, and it was not a point that I care very much what people do or where they go with it. What people do with the educational choices for their children in the UK is entirely up to them, given the choices that are available to each of them. My key point, in response to the OP's querie, is that education, development and training in Thailand does not prepare children to do very much in life, or to excel in a particular pursuit or endeavor. There are of course exceptions or counter examples, but they are the rare and remote cases, and not what you can and should expect for a child raised and educated in Thailand. Affluent Thai parents send their children to the US or Europe for education -- for the same (obvious) reasons, I will do the same.

And it is humerous/comical that you do exactly the same thing that you acuse/criticize me of/for -- forming opinion/judgment on heresay ("I know a few farang parents who don't see a problem with Thai state schools for their kids, up to them but not my choice. Mainly based on me wanting my son to have a Uk based education [and] hearing accounts of Thai friends who also send their kids to the best they can afford (usually catholic school") -- You will make educational choices and have evaluated a school system based on "accounts of Thai friends", how outrageous! And at least here, I agree with your conclusion (I think a purely random event). But I take it one step further -- my children will from the age of about 7 (maybe 8 or 9) be educated in private schools in the US (or Switzerland, I am starting to explore that option), as the international schools in Thailand are simply not good enough. My daughter is two and one half, and has been attending a good international school in Thailand for about 6 months. We speak only English at home (was your "bi-lingual" reference meant to be a joke?). All of her books and DVDs are in English, although she does hear Thai outside the home. We are pleased with her progress thus far, but this is not a long term solution. It is not very different than putting your child in a state school in the early years (until about grade 6) and then shifting him/her to private school, as many people I know in the UK have done. Much like your example of parents who suffer a not insignificant sacrifice by traveling long distance to work so that their children can receive a "good" (actually, "better") education, I will not let my choice of where I want to live affect the quality of my daughters' education. I never enquired about the quality of the public schools in the area in which I live, because it never crossed my mind for a moment that my children would attend the public schools in this area. I gave the sacrificing parents a "B" for their effort -- where my children's education is concerned, I want (and I want to give them) an "A".

You made a statement that all UK Government schools are terrible. You have illustrated very well that you know very little, if anything at all, about U.K. Schools. This is highlighted by that fact that you initially referred to government schools as public schools.

By the way you accuse Boo of struggling with the English language. You don't appear to be doing too well yourself , for example from your last post :- "eevry" "humerous" "acuse" "heresay" . Are you a product of one of the educational systems that you are considering sending your children to ?

[MikeyIdea]

A friend of mine attended an international school near Brienz Switzerland where she lived.

Her spoken English was perfect.

I wanted my son to attend the same school, but his mother insisted on sending him

to a Catholic boarding school in Brugg. Years later I found out that he had been abused by

the priests and was badly bullied by the other students. This treatment has affected his

whole outlook on life and he has struggled to find happiness and contentment.

IMHO I think it's the worst thing you can do to send children away to a boarding school,

especially when they're so young!

If children are to grow into well balanced adults, they want and need to be with their

parents until they are in their mid-teens.

There is no subsitute for the love, guidance and protection that children need.

Only their parents can offer this in adequate measure.

If you want them to grow up as strangers, with other peoples values, then sure, send them

off to a boarding school.

Nice post xerostar, agree totally

[Nawtier]

I would never bring up a child in thailand. Could give you many reason, but i am sure you know them all anyway.

Tell us anyway, I would like to hear why.

I am bringing up 2 kids here and so far very happy with how they are going.

[Thailaw]

A friend of mine attended an international school near Brienz Switzerland where she lived.

Her spoken English was perfect.

I wanted my son to attend the same school, but his mother insisted on sending him

to a Catholic boarding school in Brugg. Years later I found out that he had been abused by

the priests and was badly bullied by the other students. This treatment has affected his

whole outlook on life and he has struggled to find happiness and contentment.

IMHO I think it's the worst thing you can do to send children away to a boarding school,

especially when they're so young!

If children are to grow into well balanced adults, they want and need to be with their

parents until they are in their mid-teens.

There is no subsitute for the love, guidance and protection that children need.

Only their parents can offer this in adequate measure.

If you want them to grow up as strangers, with other peoples values, then sure, send them

off to a boarding school.

Your point is well taken, and should be a concern for any parent cosidering boarding school for their child, especially a young one. The problems with Catholic schools has received particular attention lately, and hopefully they are undergoing corrective measure to ensure that these atrocities are never repeated by those charged with the care of children. That said, I do think that high quality boarding schools serve a very valuable service, especially for children in developing countries, where the schools available may not be of high quality. In my own case, I plan that when my kids go to the US for private schooling, their mom will accompany them (I probably will not, but I may). I see this as the best arrangement possible, where they will receive a quality education and have the love and care of at least one parent -- the theory of the send best.

[Geekfreaklover]

I have two mixed race (Thai/English) kids at a pratum level small Thai private school in Bangkok. They are six and seven and doing very well. Happy, bright, intelligent. My plan is to stay in Thailand, so it is important that they are fluent in written and spoken Thai. My fear with going the international school route is that once they graduate and are through unviersity overseas (university must be overseas) that they are unable to blend back in with Bangkok society, if this is where they wish to work. For secondary / mattayum / high school there are many government and private options in Bangkok. Schools in Bangkok can be good or bad and it doesn't always depend on the fees you pay. It mostly depends on the students ability to rise to the higher level classes. I've worked in perhaps 15 Thai government high schools, and the majority are better than the London government equvilent I attended. Also, I think Thai schools teach things like respect and discipline. Concepts my home country has long since abandoned.

[Thailaw]

You made a statement that all UK Government schools are terrible. You have illustrated very well that you know very little, if anything at all, about U.K. Schools. This is highlighted by that fact that you initially referred to government schools as public schools.

By the way you accuse Boo of struggling with the English language. You don't appear to be doing too well yourself , for example from your last post :- "eevry" "humerous" "acuse" "heresay" . Are you a product of one of the educational systems that you are considering sending your children to ?

From Wikipedia:

"In the United Kingdom, the term "state school" refers to government-funded schools which provide education free of charge to pupils. The contrast to this are fee-paying schools, often called "independent schools", "private schools" or "public schools".

According to the Good Schools Guide,^[5]

"In the UK, state schools exist in a bewildering variety of forms. Over the last hundred years, successive governments have struggled to improve education by reforming its structure, over and over again. What all state schools have in common is that they are entirely free to parents, being funded through taxation."In England and Wales the term "public school" is often used to refer to fee-paying schools. "Public" is used here in a somewhat archaic sense, meaning that they are open to any member of the public, distinguished from religious schools which are open only to members of that religion. Some people call only the older fee-paying schools, "public schools", while others use the term for any such school.

In Scotland, where the educational system is completely different from the rest of UK, the term "public school" in Scottish English and Scots is only used to describe Scottish state funded schools (since they are publicly owned) – although, in the media preference is now being given to the term "state funded school" to avoid confusion with the English term. However, Scottish people will sometimes use the term "public school" when referring to a private school located in England. The Scottish term for the what is known in the rest of the UK as a "public school" is "private school" or "independent school". Use of "public school" to denote state funded schools within Scotland is sometimes confusing for speakers of English from other parts of the UK. The Scottish use of the term has found favour abroad, particularly in the United States and Canada.

It seems that I am not the only one that has some difficulty with the UK terminology. I am from the US, and there we refer to state funded schools as "public schools", as they also do in Canada and Scotland (also a part, I think, of the UK). I corrected the use of the term "public schools" that I used in my first post, without being prompted, so that any British (or mentally challenged reader) would not be confused. No one really should have had any problem understanding what I was saying, nor does my use of the term "public schools" for state schools demonstrate any lack of understanding of the UK state school system. Be critical, but don't be stupid.

Note the part from the Good Schools Guide -- not an especially flattering comment about the UK state school system in general. The last part, about being "free to parents" is probably what distinguishes them.

Sorry for the typographical errors in my last post -- I should proof read what I write more carefully (proof reading on the computer is just not my forté (I inserted the accent ague (also written as "accent aigu") just for you). I once had a secretary in India when I was working there who I required to spell check everything he typed as his spelling was atrocious (as is my hand writing). As the computer stopped on a word and gave him choices, he would always select the first choice because he did not know what choice was correct. From that time on, the spelling was perfect (i.e., all of the words were spelled correctly), but the document made no sense and many of the words were inappropriate for the context. According to your logic, he is a genius, and perhaps I am not. If you think that a few typos reflect a poor education, I assure you that they do not. If that is the best argument you can provide against the points I have made (that, gee, I must be stupid/poorly educated and my arguments must be wrong because there were 4 typos (actually, I am a bit embarrassed about "heresay" -- I am a lawyer)), don't waste your time. I was criticizing Boo's lack of understanding of what I had written in earlier posts, not her spelling or grammar (I find the use of the ampersand in written text to be sloppy at least, but I did not criticize her for it). And yes, I am a product of the same schools that I want my daughters to attend. Again, be critical if that makes you feel better, but don't be stupid. You may find a few more typos in this post, but do us both a favor (not a typo, just American English -- you can insert a "u" if you want), don't bother to mention them -- you will appear far more intelligent if you don't. Do you think that my use of American English also demonstrates that I don't know anything about the UK state school system? -- God, I hope not.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Thailaw

[fletchsmile]

You are of course correct regarding public schools in the UK, they are uniformly terrible. No Brit that I know would consider putting his/her children in public schools in the UK -- full stop. ....

I think here you are simply illustrating your limited experience of the UK education system, as well as limited interaction with a population of British people which numbers not far off 60mio. Probably based on the narrow focus and unrepresentative segment of the legal profession you know. If based in Thailand, you would also encounter a rather skewed British population distribution.

From the Telegraph, 7 May 2008:

"State education so poor it's offensive, says schools chief

The head of Britain's biggest independent schools' organisation has launched an extraordinary attack on the "very poor" quality of state education.

By Graeme Paton , Education Editor 8:24PM BST 07 May 2008 Chris Parry, the new chief executive of the Independent Schools Council (ISC), said standards were "offensive" to parents who pay their taxes and forced hundreds of thousands to go private."...

Another quote that illustrates a lack of depth and understanding of British society. As any Brit would know the "Torygraph" has a certain political bias, and that includes views on private education. The author of course would also be biased. To an educated British person you would need quote only the newspaper and the job title of the author and the summary is predictable. A very poor example. Knowing several headmasters and many teachers at schools in the UK in different parts of the country, I would say there is a very wide range. Indeed I have relatives in the profession there. Some state schools I would be delighted to send my children, some I certainly would not.

.... I have worked with dozens of London based lawyers and investment bankers for over the last 15 years. Not a single one has ever had their children in state schools, and several live as far as 50 to 100 miles outside London and commute in on the high speed train. Many will go on endlessly about how bad the state schools are and how they wish they had an option but that they "have no choice but to send their kids to private (public) schools" ...

What you say may perhaps be true of lawyers at top City firms. I would not comment though, as I only knew a few, and prefer not to comment on what I don't know or have limited knowledge of. These lawyers were, generally not my sort of people, and I think your posts remind me why

As for banking, you are simply highlighting your limited knowledge. Boo also pointed this out, being a banker.

I worked in the City for about 5 years in investment banking and hence personally knew hundreds of bankers (more than the few dozen you may have met). While you are correct a high percentage went to private/public school, compared to other industries, many did not. For someone who could be bothered, there are often surveys that quantify these type of things, in the same way people quantify top 100 CEOs etc and their education. It is certainly not the zero/100 or 1/99 ratios you refer to.

I suspect it is your limited experience and inability to interact socially which limits you to only a few dozen investment bankers. As an industry they know how to enjoy life as well as work hard. Why associate with a lawyer of your ilk unless of course you have to

Edited January 17, 2011 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

I have to say ThaiLaw, you're an excellent example of the dangers of sending your children to boarding school as you say you intend to do

You narrowly confuse academic ability with education, and seem to measure success only by someone's career and how far they go in a profession.

I understand you are in the law profession, and perhaps this further narrows your view on life. You also seem to antagonise many of the posters on this thread with your narrow views - In itself an excellent reason not to follow your approach, and you are overlooking the importance of social interaction. Perhaps this is not important to you, and more and your legal job are. Not everyone in life is the same, and your education seems to have overlooked this.

One of the dangers of boarding school for me as a parent is not being able to watch them grow up, socially and physically interacting with my family. Skype and video calls may be nice. I don't see them as substitutes for a hug and a cuddle at the end of the day, particularly for a 7 year old. Tucking them into bed and sharing the wonderful experiences they have had at school as you talk and say good night.

Personally I'd take a slightly worse academic record to be able to add my parenting as part of their education. I do appreciate others differ.

Edited January 17, 2011 by fletchsmile

[Nawtier]

While boarding school is an option for some, I could never see me doing it to my children.

[Thailaw]

You can continue to say that I am naive if you want, I have no problems giving that for free. Go back to post 1 and read again thailaw, we all parents here and your argumental style would make most parents glad not to be your child

As a parent I have 3 goals; 1) I want my daughter to have a happy childhood filled with laughter 2) I want my daughter to be well prepared for what will be required of her as an adult 3) I want her to understand when it is time to just feel satisfied

Unfortunately, the world gets more and more competitive. America is leading the development in this area and also the consumption of anti-depressants. How do I prepare my daughter for what is to come? Is a good education academically going to be enough? I think not

A toddler today will finish university in 20 years time, she will then work for 40 years after that. Half way down this toddlers working life, that's 40 (forty) years from now by the way, China will be the world leader economically, India will be second and America and the EU will have struggled to stand still economically for the last 20 years. The Asian economies on overdrive driven by several billion diligent people who are pushed forward not only by the positive feeling of living in a country where things gets better every year, but also by an improved educational system will have taken over the world economy. America and the EU will still be powerful of course but it is going to be at the level of struggling to stand still.

IMO, getting a mixed education and upbringing will open up doors where most opportunities will be during our childrens working life. They will decide where to work themselves after graduating university. The problem is just that most people will not really see any opportunities in America or Europe in 20 years time and will probably not want to leave Asia. Going to an international school all the time here, they will have grown up in an expat style community without having any real roots either in "their own home country" or in Thailand. Most people need somewhere that we don't only call home but also feel home. We may be OK knowing that we're "outside and we'll always be outside" but should we assume that our kids will be OK feeling that all their lives too? This is why I don't recommend both primary and secondary education in international school. Part of the education in a good bilingual school will make a small difference academically and will give the kids the advantage of having one western foot and one eastern foot and the ability to feel at home in both societies, not only be able to bridge the cultural differences between east and west but also naturally understand them.

A good education academically is necessary but it is not enough. If it hasn't been a happy time, then it hasn't been a good time, regardless of what future success it has the potential to bring… A bit of Asia in the education and upbringing is good. There are so many sorry souls who come to Asia and can't even handle that things are not as home, not a good basis to perform well at work and at home. If nothing else, it should also protect the kid from ever becoming a bitter internet farang on ThaiVisa

Michael

Your third post is a lot longer than your first two, but it says little if anything more...vague generalities about having one foot in each culture -- east and west -- with no thought or recognition of the problems/issues that this presents in the long run. It is, in part, work and where the opportunities will be, no doubt. It is also social interaction and into which culture your child will be absorbed -- your post doesn't indicate even the slightest recognition of this issue -- perhaps you don't care; I do. The majority of children will suffer as a result of the "opportunities" you are providing/will provide for your daughter (pray that she is the exception), certainly when compared to what they would have had and experienced back in the west. Another poster hinted at the social/cultural development issue, but did not raise the issue openly -- it is difficult and presents real issues for a parent to wrestle with. You seem to think that the most important part of development of a child is "having fun". Childhood should be fun, but there is much, much more to it. And I, as a parent, am not going to make my children's childhoods fun -- interaction with other children, fun and enriching activities many of which I will not participate in, will make their childhoods fun and enriching. I am her parent, not her play mate. My main responsibility is to ensure that they have every opportunity (the education, skills, exposure to culture and ideas, etc.) for a successfu, fulfilling and happy life, what ever they finally determine that will be. Thailand is a great place for varied enrichment -- there are so many diverse cultures within a relatively small area (China, India, Viet Nam, Cambodia, Singapore -- my older daughter will have visited all of them before she is 4), Beyond that, it is a developing country with substandard public education, and private schools that try to offer something that approximates an education that would be received by a middle class child in the west. A parent should want more than that for his/her child. Opportunities won't come if the child is not prepared for them. Having a western parent and an Asian parent and being exposed to both cultures but being educated in the west will provide a child with everything you suggest is important and so very much more of what is important than is available here in Thailand. Thailand is a wonderful place, but education here is not one of the things that makes it "wonderful". I don't have a crystal ball and I am not so confident on China's success continuing, but if you are, you should be emersing your daughter in Mandarin Chinese. Actually, you have seriously confused Gross National Product with Per Capita Income -- an increase in one will not necessarily result in an increase in the other. If you expect the per capita income in China to surpass the PCI in the US within 20 years, you will be sadly disappointed. It sounds like you have rationalized your and your daughter's situation to avoid guilt and making difficult (maybe expensive) decisions. That may work for you, but is is indeed unfortunate for her. If your reference to "bitter" was directed at me, that is rediculous -- I am not in the least bitter, angry or hostile. To the contrary, my life is near perfect, and I have absolutely nothing to be bitter about. What I am is critical of mindless excuses rather than thought, and when I see them I do not mince words, I call "kee" "kee" when I see it. Sorry if my frankness offends you -- perhaps you appreciate it more when you grow up. My daughter gets spanked and hugged and kissed on a regular basis, and at two she demonstrates a lot more understanding than your posts here (she is, of course, my daughter). I don't think that "argumental" is a word (maybe it is in UK English, I didn't bother to check), but I do think I can tell what you mean. I expect that I would be pretty disappointed if you were my child, so on that point we agree. I'll leave off the smiley faces if its ok with you............

[Thailaw]

I have to say ThaiLaw, you're an excellent example of the dangers of sending your children to boarding school as you say you intend to do

You narrowly confuse academic ability with education, and seem to measure success only by someone's career and how far they go in a profession.

I understand you are in the law profession, and perhaps this further narrows your view on life. You also seem to antagonise many of the posters on this thread with your narrow views - In itself an excellent reason not to follow your approach, and you are overlooking the importance of social interaction. Perhaps this is not important to you, and more and your legal job are. Not everyone in life is the same, and your education seems to have overlooked this.

One of the dangers of boarding school for me as a parent is not being able to watch them grow up, socially and physically interacting with my family. Skype and video calls may be nice. I don't see them as substitutes for a hug and a cuddle at the end of the day, particularly for a 7 year old. Tucking them into bed and sharing the wonderful experiences they have had at school as you talk and say good night.

Personally I'd take a slightly worse academic record to be able to add my parenting as part of their education. I do appreciate others differ.

I said nothing of the sort! What I said above, in response to Xerostar's concern about boarding schools, was:

"That said, I do think that high quality boarding schools serve a very valuable service, especially for children in developing countries, where the schools available may not be of high quality. In my own case, I plan that when my kids go to the US for private schooling, their mom will accompany them (I probably will not, but I may). I see this as the best arrangement possible, where they will receive a quality education and have the love and care of at least one parent -- the theory of the second best."

Was I not clear on this point?

Edited January 17, 2011 by Thailaw

[ExpatJ]

A friend of mine attended an international school near Brienz Switzerland where she lived.

Her spoken English was perfect.

I wanted my son to attend the same school, but his mother insisted on sending him

to a Catholic boarding school in Brugg. Years later I found out that he had been abused by

the priests and was badly bullied by the other students. This treatment has affected his

whole outlook on life and he has struggled to find happiness and contentment.

IMHO I think it's the worst thing you can do to send children away to a boarding school,

especially when they're so young!

If children are to grow into well balanced adults, they want and need to be with their

parents until they are in their mid-teens.

There is no subsitute for the love, guidance and protection that children need.

Only their parents can offer this in adequate measure.

If you want them to grow up as strangers, with other peoples values, then sure, send them

off to a boarding school.

Disagree with this- boarding school is a fine option if parents need to send their kids there- the positive side of boarding school is that kids generally become more socially adept and better at interacting with their peers compared to non-boarding school kids- a very valuable asset in later life. Boarding school also teaches a kid to be independent and self sufficient- better able to shine and deal with going to university for example and in jobs which require alot of traveling, living in other countries.

Negative side is actually more for the parents- its a shame for mom/dad to be apart from their kids when they are growing up as kids will all leave home anyway in their late teens/20s.

I would also wait until kid is 11 plus before sending to boarding school.

[Thailaw]

. . .You narrowly confuse academic ability with education, and seem to measure success only by someone's career and how far they go in a profession.

I understand you are in the law profession, and perhaps this further narrows your view on life. You also seem to antagonise many of the posters on this thread with your narrow views - In itself an excellent reason not to follow your approach, and you are overlooking the importance of social interaction. Perhaps this is not important to you, and more and your legal job are. Not everyone in life is the same, and your education seems to have overlooked this.

As I look back over the posts, I have mostly antagonized those people (who probably went to UK state schools, and feel a need to defend their education and their parents' decisions) who are critical of my assertion that UK state schools are not "good". This is a view held by many, and I have not seen a single authoritative source stating that UK state schools are "high quality" (or anything cloe to that). And while I think that my statement is correct, it was not the main point I was trying to make on this thread. I have defended my point against banal, sophomoric and emotional (my post had 4 typos, duh!) attack only because the attackers' points have been so rediculous and poorly thought out. If that justifies ignoring my statements and not following in my steps, so be it. I really don't care about the UK state schools and who enrolls their children in them. I do care about educated parents with children in Thailand, and I do hope that they consider the child's long term future and opportunities when deciding where and how to school them. It is not an easy decision, but I think that some choices are clearly better than others if all factors are properly considered. The posters that have provided substance in their posts either agree with what I have said or have provided support (anecdotal) for my points.

I do care about "success", no matter how defined or measured. Success in my view is not working as a waiter or waitress or driving a truck. Making a difference, leaving this place better than you found it, are success. For me, no doubt, that has been professional and financial success. But my children need not follow my path. You can be a great success as a parent, and you don't need a good education for that. But if you intend to work, you should prepare yourself for a challenging, interesting, and financially rewarding career. No matter where you go, you will carry your "human capital" with you, and if your best opportunity is in a different country and you can master a new language you will be able to work and support your family. The Jews, probably the most persecuted people on earth, as a cultural group, value professional education and diamonds -- they are highly transportable. And in this era of a shrinking globe, mobility and transportability, along with fluent English, are critical. Give your children the best education you can afford -- they will thank you for it in the years to come. Social interaction is important, but not at the center, and most people will get this naturally just by living, doing and interacting. And, I want my children to develop friendships and social networks with their piers in the west, not in Thailand. That will give them the best chance for success and happiness, what ever and where ever they decide that will be..... I don't have a crystal ball, and I cannot predict the future. I am not, as I think some are suggesting, going to tie my children's future to the success (or failure) of Thailand. That, in my view, would be stupid and a great disservice to my children, and I won't do that.

Edited January 17, 2011 by Thailaw

[MikeyIdea]

You can continue to say that I am naive if you want, I have no problems giving that for free. Go back to post 1 and read again thailaw, we all parents here and your argumental style would make most parents glad not to be your child

As a parent I have 3 goals; 1) I want my daughter to have a happy childhood filled with laughter 2) I want my daughter to be well prepared for what will be required of her as an adult 3) I want her to understand when it is time to just feel satisfied

Unfortunately, the world gets more and more competitive. America is leading the development in this area and also the consumption of anti-depressants. How do I prepare my daughter for what is to come? Is a good education academically going to be enough? I think not

A toddler today will finish university in 20 years time, she will then work for 40 years after that. Half way down this toddlers working life, that's 40 (forty) years from now by the way, China will be the world leader economically, India will be second and America and the EU will have struggled to stand still economically for the last 20 years. The Asian economies on overdrive driven by several billion diligent people who are pushed forward not only by the positive feeling of living in a country where things gets better every year, but also by an improved educational system will have taken over the world economy. America and the EU will still be powerful of course but it is going to be at the level of struggling to stand still.

IMO, getting a mixed education and upbringing will open up doors where most opportunities will be during our childrens working life. They will decide where to work themselves after graduating university. The problem is just that most people will not really see any opportunities in America or Europe in 20 years time and will probably not want to leave Asia. Going to an international school all the time here, they will have grown up in an expat style community without having any real roots either in "their own home country" or in Thailand. Most people need somewhere that we don't only call home but also feel home. We may be OK knowing that we're "outside and we'll always be outside" but should we assume that our kids will be OK feeling that all their lives too? This is why I don't recommend both primary and secondary education in international school. Part of the education in a good bilingual school will make a small difference academically and will give the kids the advantage of having one western foot and one eastern foot and the ability to feel at home in both societies, not only be able to bridge the cultural differences between east and west but also naturally understand them.

A good education academically is necessary but it is not enough. If it hasn't been a happy time, then it hasn't been a good time, regardless of what future success it has the potential to bring… A bit of Asia in the education and upbringing is good. There are so many sorry souls who come to Asia and can't even handle that things are not as home, not a good basis to perform well at work and at home. If nothing else, it should also protect the kid from ever becoming a bitter internet farang on ThaiVisa

Michael

Your third post is a lot longer than your first two, but it says little if anything more...vague generalities about having one foot in each culture -- east and west -- with no thought or recognition of the problems/issues that this presents in the long run. It is, in part, work and where the opportunities will be, no doubt. It is also social interaction and into which culture your child will be absorbed -- your post doesn't indicate even the slightest recognition of this issue -- perhaps you don't care; I do. The majority of children will suffer as a result of the "opportunities" you are providing/will provide for your daughter (pray that she is the exception), certainly when compared to what they would have had and experienced back in the west. Another poster hinted at the social/cultural development issue, but did not raise the issue openly -- it is difficult and presents real issues for a parent to wrestle with. You seem to think that the most important part of development of a child is "having fun". Childhood should be fun, but there is much, much more to it. And I, as a parent, am not going to make my children's childhoods fun -- interaction with other children, fun and enriching activities many of which I will not participate in, will make their childhoods fun and enriching. I am her parent, not her play mate. My main responsibility is to ensure that they have every opportunity (the education, skills, exposure to culture and ideas, etc.) for a successfu, fulfilling and happy life, what ever they finally determine that will be. Thailand is a great place for varied enrichment -- there are so many diverse cultures within a relatively small area (China, India, Viet Nam, Cambodia, Singapore -- my older daughter will have visited all of them before she is 4), Beyond that, it is a developing country with substandard public education, and private schools that try to offer something that approximates an education that would be received by a middle class child in the west. A parent should want more than that for his/her child. Opportunities won't come if the child is not prepared for them. Having a western parent and an Asian parent and being exposed to both cultures but being educated in the west will provide a child with everything you suggest is important and so very much more of what is important than is available here in Thailand. Thailand is a wonderful place, but education here is not one of the things that makes it "wonderful". I don't have a crystal ball and I am not so confident on China's success continuing, but if you are, you should be emersing your daughter in Mandarin Chinese. Actually, you have seriously confused Gross National Product with Per Capita Income -- an increase in one will not necessarily result in an increase in the other. If you expect the per capita income in China to surpass the PCI in the US within 20 years, you will be sadly disappointed. It sounds like you have rationalized your and your daughter's situation to avoid guilt and making difficult (maybe expensive) decisions. That may work for you, but is is indeed unfortunate for her. If your reference to "bitter" was directed at me, that is rediculous -- I am not in the least bitter, angry or hostile. To the contrary, my life is near perfect, and I have absolutely nothing to be bitter about. What I am is critical of mindless excuses rather than thought, and when I see them I do not mince words, I call "kee" "kee" when I see it. Sorry if my frankness offends you -- perhaps you appreciate it more when you grow up. My daughter gets spanked and hugged and kissed on a regular basis, and at two she demonstrates a lot more understanding than your posts here (she is, of course, my daughter). I don't think that "argumental" is a word (maybe it is in UK English, I didn't bother to check), but I do think I can tell what you mean. I expect that I would be pretty disappointed if you were my child, so on that point we agree. I'll leave off the smiley faces if its ok with you............

Assuming content that isn't there and then getting upset is funny to read. It always amuses me what makes some posters angry and upset. Usually it is their own brain

You clearly show yourself as an agitated westerner having problems to adapt in Asia taking it out on people who happen to cross your way ThaiLaw.

Perhaps you should have tried part Asian education

Edited January 17, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[Thailaw]

Assuming content that isn't there and then getting upset is funny to read. It always amuses me what makes some posters angry and upset. Usually it is their own brain

You clearly show yourself as an agitated westerner having problems to adapt in Asia taking it out on people who happen to cross your way ThaiLaw.

Perhaps you should have tried part Asian education

Your last post is mercifully short and, as has become the norm, devoid of any substance. There is a grin on my face, and not the slightest hint of agitation or upset in my soul. "I calls 'em like I sees 'em", no more, no less. Perhaps you should have tried education, any part would help...... I am pleased I could amuse you -- any brain activity is encouraging....

[MikeyIdea]

Assuming content that isn't there and then getting upset is funny to read. It always amuses me what makes some posters angry and upset. Usually it is their own brain

You clearly show yourself as an agitated westerner having problems to adapt in Asia taking it out on people who happen to cross your way ThaiLaw.

Perhaps you should have tried part Asian education

Your last post is mercifully short and, as has become the norm, devoid of any substance. There is a grin on my face, and not the slightest hint of agitation or upset in my soul. "I calls 'em like I sees 'em", no more, no less. Perhaps you should have tried education, any part would help...... I am pleased I could amuse you -- any brain activity is encouraging....

You forgot about assuming content in my post that wasn't there ThaiLaw

OP, my advice still stands, a bit of Asia in the education is good.

ThaiLaw is helping making that clearer and clearer, thanks

[Boo]

I have defended my point against banal, sophomoric and emotional (my post had 4 typos, duh!) attack only because the attackers' points have been so rediculous and poorly thought out.

Yes, it really is pathetic

Thailaw, on 2011-01-17 10:39, said:

Boy, you do seem to struggle with the English language. Perhaps you are a product of the same UK state schools system of which you seem to be so fond and supportive.

I'll happily keep my child away from the kind of education you received if you think being condesending & nasty is the way to get on in life. Good grace isn't something they seem to have taught in your great US schooling system either.

[Thailaw]

I'll happily keep my child away from the kind of education you received if you think being condesending & nasty is the way to get on in life. Good grace isn't something they seem to have taught in your great US schooling system either.

It was taught, but I think I was absent that day...... I will try to do better......... (to borrow a technique from MikeyIdea -- cute isn't it?)

[Boo]

Get on with raising your child how you will & leave others to do the same. If you think preaching to people about a system you have no idea about other than a few comments from presumably wealthy people makes you right then have it. you seem to need it. I could claim to know all about american life through watching Friends or CSI but I tend to have a bit more maturity than that.

Back to the topic at hand

[MikeyIdea]

I have defended my point against banal, sophomoric and emotional (my post had 4 typos, duh!) attack only because the attackers' points have been so rediculous and poorly thought out.

Yes, it really is pathetic

Thailaw, on 2011-01-17 10:39, said:

Boy, you do seem to struggle with the English language. Perhaps you are a product of the same UK state schools system of which you seem to be so fond and supportive.

I'll happily keep my child away from the kind of education you received if you think being condesending & nasty is the way to get on in life. Good grace isn't something they seem to have taught in your great US schooling system either.

Excellent post Boo, you have my full support on that one.

The funny thing is that ThaiLaw doesn''t even realise how disliked he is

Jerk, aka ThaiLaw is sarcastic, mean, unforgiving and never misses an opportunity to make a cutting remark. Jerk's repulsive personality quickly alienates other posters, and after some initial skirmishing he is usually ostracized. Still, Jerk is very happy to participate in electronic forums because in cyberspace he is free to be himself...without the risk of getting a real-time punch in the mouth

Edited January 17, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[MikeyIdea]

I'll happily keep my child away from the kind of education you received if you think being condesending & nasty is the way to get on in life. Good grace isn't something they seem to have taught in your great US schooling system either.

It was taught, but I think I was absent that day...... I will try to do better......... (to borrow a technique from MikeyIdea -- cute isn't it?)

You will have to borrow a lot from me to get above the zero line in my book. Try starting with teaching your parents respect so that they can start teaching you respect so that you can start teaching your kids

Back to the topic at hand, forgot

In this thread, we have a perfect sample of what some westerners would do well learn from Asia, Respect

That was meant to Thailaw of course

Edited January 17, 2011 by MikeyIdea

[maccaroni man]

It seems to me the OP could ask his parents the same question, i mean honestly what parent truly believes they could not have done better? Regardless of what their child grew up to be professionaly siblings and parents will always see little johny or jane as the child they were. As for raising children in an expat situation, i have found that the children are much more flexable and open to change than children of their own age who live in their home country. There is a vast amount of information on the internet that documents the academic differences of expat children. I subscribe to the idea that life os for living and the indoctination of a school system has very little to the happiness of my children. The 3 r's have proven value and i am pleaseed that they grasp these subjects having said this as they get older it also becomes more clear to me that if i truley love my children i will accept and support them in what ever decisions they make. I have laid out the ground rules i.e. they can do or be whatever they like and they will always have a place in my home but if they choose a profession that can not support their basic needs then they will need to work 2 jobs because my tit is dry. parenting is an art form and abstract at best, all we can do is what we think is best and hope we dont screw the kids up too much.