Rubber Tree Prices, Help Please

[Canada]

I just bought 50 rai that was planted last year, then not maintained.....lots of failures but lots of trees. I bought to grow sugar. Any suggestions on what to do with these trees? Are they saleable? Of course I have no idea if they are 600, 251 or 999..... They must have some value, just to whom I guess. Any suggestions? The property is in Nong Bua Lamphu.

[Canada]

Ok....I'm thinking....James is talking about keeping trees potted longer....I could pull these ones up, store them at Mom's row them for another 2 years, then plant them after the second year of sugar comes in.....spend the time growing sugar, which is what my intention was, researching rubber, and looking for a suitable piece of land close by. How long could I or would it be a good idea to keep them potted? Thanks.

[jamescollister]

Ok....I'm thinking....James is talking about keeping trees potted longer....I could pull these ones up, store them at Mom's row them for another 2 years, then plant them after the second year of sugar comes in.....spend the time growing sugar, which is what my intention was, researching rubber, and looking for a suitable piece of land close by. How long could I or would it be a good idea to keep them potted? Thanks.

Got your PM will reply when I sober up after Songkran. Jim

[IsaanAussie]

Thats the way Jim, glass in hand and don the "Latex Leisure Suit" and F-ck 'em all for a day or two. Man after my own heart. Put the pigs on a beer diet over Songkran to keep the playing field level

[raylo]

This week I paid 70 Baht per tree. Ouch!!

I needed to replace 500 trees after last years fatalities, so I chose grade 'A' RRIM 600's. If I had bought grade 'B's I could have saved myself 10 Baht per tree, but I wanted to give them a good chance as the others are three years old. This will probably be my last chance on this land as the canopy may preclude further replacements for much longer.

I also bought some Grade 'B' JVP 80's. These were also 70 Baht per tree.

3 years ago 20 Baht.

Last year 35 Baht.

Now 70 Baht.

Whatever next?

Clive

We live far far north Chiang Rai / Phayao districts.

Having rang and visited many rubber seedling providers we have gone with the '600s at an average of 60 baht per tree. We could have bought at 45 baht last month but were not ready to purchase.

Saw lots of shit seedlings with some cheaper but no sign whatsoever of farang price inflation. Independently varified.

Happy New Year

[Canada]

Ok....I'm thinking....James is talking about keeping trees potted longer....I could pull these ones up, store them at Mom's row them for another 2 years, then plant them after the second year of sugar comes in.....spend the time growing sugar, which is what my intention was, researching rubber, and looking for a suitable piece of land close by. How long could I or would it be a good idea to keep them potted? Thanks.

Got your PM will reply when I sober up after Songkran. Jim

ok thanks,

Brother in law says don't bother, the trees will barely survive being dug up and will mature slowly after replanting next year or so.....he figures if I want to plant rubber, then plant rubber, ,,,,,never mind trying to scavenge the trees from this plot to plant later on another....probably right....just seems a shame to plough under a thousand trees or so.....I made another trip to the plot to re-evaluate....the trees really didn't take well.....maybe 50 percent, and then varying heights...from 2 feet to 6 feet....

[Boeing757]

Canada.

In my opinion last years trees between 2 and 6 feet is absolutely normal.

50% failure rate however is not so good.

Clive

[chang35baht]

Here`s an idea. You`ve bought 50 rai with rubber trees on. Yes around 50% is a high failure rate. But, as the trees are only a year or so old why not replant and try to maintain them properly. 50 rai will bring in a healthy bit of pocket money in 6 or 7 years when the trees are ready to be tapped.

I know it is a long wait, but in the long run I suspect that the income from the rubber will be better than the income from sugar cane.

In 6/7 years the price of rubber will almost certainly be higher than it is now.

But be forewarned that the first years are the most expensive in the rubber farming business and a lot of hard work is involved.

Just something for you to consider Canada.

Good luck,

C35B.

Edited April 15, 2011 by chang35baht

[Canada]

Can anyone tell me, as I have no idea about rubber....over 10 years, which will pay better if I am starting from scratch on the rubber.... if 10 years is too short a time for comparison, at what point will the rubber over take the sugar? say we are talking about 2- 50 rai plots.

Thanks.

BTW , I could change my mind on this......but as it stands the rubber is doomed to go underground within a week or so.

Can anyone give me some numbers on rubber to work with? Thanks again.

[jamescollister]

Can anyone tell me, as I have no idea about rubber....over 10 years, which will pay better if I am starting from scratch on the rubber.... if 10 years is too short a time for comparison, at what point will the rubber over take the sugar? say we are talking about 2- 50 rai plots.

Thanks.

BTW , I could change my mind on this......but as it stands the rubber is doomed to go underground within a week or so.

Can anyone give me some numbers on rubber to work with? Thanks again.

Canada think you may want to slow down a bit before jumping into 100 Rai of rubber. It is not cheap to set up. Another thing which most seem not to realise, is there is a limit on some land titles that your wife can hold. 50 Rai per person, so you will probably have other family members owning your very expensive trees.

No nothing about sugar so could not tell you when rubber returns would over take the sugar returns. Rubber is a long term investment and I don't think you would make the return over and above your cost for 12 years. As I have said I am the only Farang that I know of that makes a living from rubber, Jim

[afarang]

Can anyone tell me, as I have no idea about rubber....over 10 years, which will pay better if I am starting from scratch on the rubber.... if 10 years is too short a time for comparison, at what point will the rubber over take the sugar? say we are talking about 2- 50 rai plots.

Thanks.

BTW , I could change my mind on this......but as it stands the rubber is doomed to go underground within a week or so.

Can anyone give me some numbers on rubber to work with? Thanks again.

Canada think you may want to slow down a bit before jumping into 100 Rai of rubber. It is not cheap to set up. Another thing which most seem not to realise, is there is a limit on some land titles that your wife can hold. 50 Rai per person, so you will probably have other family members owning your very expensive trees.

No nothing about sugar so could not tell you when rubber returns would over take the sugar returns. Rubber is a long term investment and I don't think you would make the return over and above your cost for 12 years. As I have said I am the only Farang that I know of that makes a living from rubber, Jim

There are others, Jim. Vince certainly does,but he was the first farang to plant trees here. He will tap about 40 rai this year. His wife has her "own" land as well, Others here have planted enough land but the trees are still too young to tap. If I was the OP , I would stick with the rubber, develop it. He will make big money, when the trees are tappable,But I would plant Cassava between the trees, making a good income while waiting for tapping time. Cassava - Mon Sumpalung is very good money , now. Bill

[Canada]

Can anyone tell me, as I have no idea about rubber....over 10 years, which will pay better if I am starting from scratch on the rubber.... if 10 years is too short a time for comparison, at what point will the rubber over take the sugar? say we are talking about 2- 50 rai plots.

Thanks.

BTW , I could change my mind on this......but as it stands the rubber is doomed to go underground within a week or so.

Can anyone give me some numbers on rubber to work with? Thanks again.

Canada think you may want to slow down a bit before jumping into 100 Rai of rubber. It is not cheap to set up. Another thing which most seem not to realise, is there is a limit on some land titles that your wife can hold. 50 Rai per person, so you will probably have other family members owning your very expensive trees.

No nothing about sugar so could not tell you when rubber returns would over take the sugar returns. Rubber is a long term investment and I don't think you would make the return over and above your cost for 12 years. As I have said I am the only Farang that I know of that makes a living from rubber, Jim

Thanks for that. I wasn't really considering changing horses at this point. One parcel is committed to sugar....for now. The other, well, we are taking the trees out this week. I wasn't considering going 100 rai of rubber but, 48.....being as we are half planted already......just some clean up, replant the victims, and take better care of it......I would consider if I knew more about returns. Can you tell me how many mature trees per rai and how many planted to get that amount. Then how much rubber can you get on average per rai over the course of a year. And maintenance costs after the trees are producing. Current price of rubber, and acceptable split with the tappers. I would really appreciate this information.

As far as land titles and limits...are there limits on ownership of land with chanote title? That's all we have. I don't see the point of buying land without a proper paper...

Thanks for your help.

[jamescollister]

Can anyone tell me, as I have no idea about rubber....over 10 years, which will pay better if I am starting from scratch on the rubber.... if 10 years is too short a time for comparison, at what point will the rubber over take the sugar? say we are talking about 2- 50 rai plots.

Thanks.

BTW , I could change my mind on this......but as it stands the rubber is doomed to go underground within a week or so.

Can anyone give me some numbers on rubber to work with? Thanks again.

Canada think you may want to slow down a bit before jumping into 100 Rai of rubber. It is not cheap to set up. Another thing which most seem not to realise, is there is a limit on some land titles that your wife can hold. 50 Rai per person, so you will probably have other family members owning your very expensive trees.

No nothing about sugar so could not tell you when rubber returns would over take the sugar returns. Rubber is a long term investment and I don't think you would make the return over and above your cost for 12 years. As I have said I am the only Farang that I know of that makes a living from rubber, Jim

There are others, Jim. Vince certainly does,but he was the first farang to plant trees here. He will tap about 40 rai this year. His wife has her "own" land as well, Others here have planted enough land but the trees are still too young to tap. If I was the OP , I would stick with the rubber, develop it. He will make big money, when the trees are tappable,But I would plant Cassava between the trees, making a good income while waiting for tapping time. Cassava - Mon Sumpalung is very good money , now. Bill

Afarang who ever Vince is good on him as he is the first farang that I have heard of going the distance. Most start with good intentions, but over the years things just don't go to plan. I would be interested in anyone else out there who has started tapping maybe we could hold an annual Farang rubber tappers get together. Swap ideas etc. Jim

[tothemark]

ok thanks,

Brother in law says don't bother, the trees will barely survive being dug up and will mature slowly after replanting next year or so.....he figures if I want to plant rubber, then plant rubber, ,,,,,never mind trying to scavenge the trees from this plot to plant later on another....probably right....just seems a shame to plough under a thousand trees or so.....I made another trip to the plot to re-evaluate....the trees really didn't take well.....maybe 50 percent, and then varying heights...from 2 feet to 6 feet....

Canada,

One problem is that every one talks about Rai in terms of the size of their rubber and it is not the way to work any finances out.

Count the trees !

I have visited all too many sites that price their rubber land on Rai which is a joke.

You mentioned that you would plough a thousand trees or so, Well, lets say that its 2000 trees which depending upon spacing will be 30 rai of rubber. To look after rubber per rai over a 6 year period including seedling purchases you should work on 40,000 per rai for the entire period. So your outlay for the rubber on your site of 30 rai of rubber (assuming 2000 trees) will be around 1.2m. No land costs as you already own it. Now you can see the importance of counting the trees, if you were doing cost projections on 50 rai your outlay would need to be based upon 2m bht and not 1.2m - BIG difference.

If you have 50 rai of rubber you should have between 3700 and 4000 trees, trust me you wont have that number. Access roads, boundaries, dykes, slopes, etc etc all of these eat into the "rubber rai".

There's your figures, as Jim can tell you its a long long uphill road in those first six years and you have to understand the commitment of no return in the first six years and all the payout. Now you can appreciate why some Thai farmers poorly fertilise their trees and then cut early.

[afarang]

No income from planting rubber for 6-7 years.? Rubbish .A very good income for you , if you plant Mun Sumpalung between your trees. For at least the first 4 years.Or, until the canopy forms. Mun is now , about B3,000 per ton. Bloody good money.

[customcurb]

Mun Sumpalung!?!?!? Thought that was potato root or cassava root. Did I not read that that will compete with the young rubber trees for nutrients ?

We have a few rai with 1st year rubber trees and find out that wifes dad had decided to plant Mạn s̄ảpah̄lạng in between to make himself a few baht.

Baby rubber trees near the roots didn't grow well compared to others in the field without the Mạn s̄ảpah̄lạng. We had him to get rid of the Mạn s̄ảpah̄lạng.

Actually I'd be glad to hear differently, or how to they both can thrive intercropped. Advise?

thx

glennb6

[kwonitoy]

Can anyone tell me, as I have no idea about rubber....over 10 years, which will pay better if I am starting from scratch on the rubber.... if 10 years is too short a time for comparison, at what point will the rubber over take the sugar? say we are talking about 2- 50 rai plots.

Thanks.

BTW , I could change my mind on this......but as it stands the rubber is doomed to go underground within a week or so.

Can anyone give me some numbers on rubber to work with? Thanks again.

Canada think you may want to slow down a bit before jumping into 100 Rai of rubber. It is not cheap to set up. Another thing which most seem not to realise, is there is a limit on some land titles that your wife can hold. 50 Rai per person, so you will probably have other family members owning your very expensive trees.

No nothing about sugar so could not tell you when rubber returns would over take the sugar returns. Rubber is a long term investment and I don't think you would make the return over and above your cost for 12 years. As I have said I am the only Farang that I know of that makes a living from rubber, Jim

There are others, Jim. Vince certainly does,but he was the first farang to plant trees here. He will tap about 40 rai this year. His wife has her "own" land as well, Others here have planted enough land but the trees are still too young to tap. If I was the OP , I would stick with the rubber, develop it. He will make big money, when the trees are tappable,But I would plant Cassava between the trees, making a good income while waiting for tapping time. Cassava - Mon Sumpalung is very good money , now. Bill

Afarang who ever Vince is good on him as he is the first farang that I have heard of going the distance. Most start with good intentions, but over the years things just don't go to plan. I would be interested in anyone else out there who has started tapping maybe we could hold an annual Farang rubber tappers get together. Swap ideas etc. Jim

Jim:

I've e-mailed you before about starting to tap rubber, never had the time to make it down your way though, someday hopefully.

I'm another falang that has run the rubber obsticle course and come out the other side. We'll open up 20 rai worth of trees this season, the wife's family wanted to start last year but I held them off until they're 50cm diameter. I currently have 70 rai in the ground and am putting in another 32 rai in June. We have planted or bought exsisting trees since 2006, so they will come on line starting this year and increase year by year. You're right when you say the cost for 100 rai of rubber is high. I smile when I see the posts with spreadsheets and figures for all the expenses and income. I think you said it once before whatever you figure on expeses, double it. I concur.

As for our income I'll see what is what when we start tapping, I haven't quite my dayjob in the oil patch but I'm hoping in 4 or 5 years when the 70 rai is all mature and producing we'll see an income that can let me stay at home fulltime.

I know from having been brought up on a farm that you can't forcast income for next season much less 8 years down the road as for rubber. If you get into it be prepared for a long hard haul and lots of pitfalls that you didn't see coming.

That being said I enjoy what I've done and am doing, there is a big learning curve and an education always costs money.

Ken

[afarang]

I live in A. Ban Kluat, one of the first areas to grow rubber in Isarn. Everybody here grows(still) or grew Mun (yes in English- Cassava) in between the trees. With no detrimental effects whatsoever on the trees.Providing you fertilise BOTH correctly.And good weed control. Very important. The Mun will not affect the trees, if you look after both well.Up to you.And ,yes the money is very good from Mun, now . Around B 3,000 per ton.

[tothemark]

No income from planting rubber for 6-7 years.? Rubbish .A very good income for you , if you plant Mun Sumpalung between your trees. For at least the first 4 years.Or, until the canopy forms. Mun is now , about B3,000 per ton. Bloody good money.

Hi Afarang,

Its each to his own, I am not an advocate of inter cropping but thats my choice and evidently it is a choice of many other rubber farmers that also cultivate rubber and I still stand by my example of costs and return in respect of mono culture rubber farming

.

You do raise a valid point should you wish to maximise returns.

However, inter cropping should be treated with some caution in respect of which inter crops are chosen in order not to jeopordise a significant investment and I have therefore enclosed an informative study on inter cropping of rubber in Thailand for those that wish to consider it.

I welcome comments from any other rubber farmers that do both mono and inter crop culture, as although information is key, experience is king.

http://http://sutlib2.sut.ac.th/Sut_Article/Paisal/BIB1158_F.pdf

BIB1158_F.pdf

[kwonitoy]

No income from planting rubber for 6-7 years.? Rubbish .A very good income for you , if you plant Mun Sumpalung between your trees. For at least the first 4 years.Or, until the canopy forms. Mun is now , about B3,000 per ton. Bloody good money.

Hi Afarang,

Its each to his own, I am not an advocate of inter cropping but thats my choice and evidently it is a choice of many other rubber farmers that also cultivate rubber and I still stand by my example of costs and return in respect of mono culture rubber farming

.

You do raise a valid point should you wish to maximise returns.

However, inter cropping should be treated with some caution in respect of which inter crops are chosen in order not to jeopordise a significant investment and I have therefore enclosed an informative study on inter cropping of rubber in Thailand for those that wish to consider it.

I welcome comments from any other rubber farmers that do both mono and inter crop culture, as although information is key, experience is king.

http://http://sutlib2.sut.ac.th/Sut_Article/Paisal/BIB1158_F.pdf

BIB1158_F.pdf

To answer the OP,

I paid 40 baht per tree this year, I got a stick in a bag and have a nursery behind the house letting them grow before planting. Last year I paid 60 baht per tree for 60cm high ready to plant. This year the same tree is 100 baht and I can't get any around here. The big supplier can't bring them in fast enough, he brings in 15,000 trees in a big truck and they don't even hit the ground. Straight into waiting pickups and trailers.

As for intercropping we did rice on a 13 rai piece last year. After harvest the ground is like concrete and I had a very hard time trying to clear the old stalks. I went through it with a rototiller but had trouble penetrating the ground. After the rain we had with the recent cold snap I went and plowed it again and got the land clear finally. I told the wife no more intercropping. My take on it is that I'm growing rubber trees and I don't want anything to hinder that.

If you want to spend the time and effort to do it, it can be done but not for me.

[afarang]

To the Mark, I am talking about Southern Isarn. ALL rubber growers in this area grow or grew Mun, While their trees were young, until the canopy formed. Your post about research,I am sorry to say, is meaningless to our area, as it refers to Songkla, which is Southern Thailand.Totally different climate ,rainfall patterns ,distribution ,and soils.Only one crop is grown - Mun Sumpalung (Cassava).My understanding is , that for Isarn , the research was conducted by Khon Kaen Uni..<who I am told did and /or do field tests , particularly on Peanuts (groundnuts), Which , personally I thought would have been an ideal crop, but NO ,none are interplanted with or between young rubber trees.Only Mun Sumpalung. Even though 3 years ago ,the price was not good ,everyone still planted Mun. Particular attention must be paid to correct fertilisers ,different for Mun and rubber. And to weed control. From a long history of inter[planting(that is,over many years), there appears absolutely NO detrimental effect on the rubber trees .THat given that about 80 % of our upland areas are planted to rubber. No rubber is interplanted with Paddy, as Paddy must grow IN water, the trees would drown.Some people,now, are trying to grow rubber on the levees around the Paddy fields. None are ready for tapping, as yet. Don't know if it will be successful or not. I have my doubts.

[tothemark]

To the Mark, I am talking about Southern Isarn. ALL rubber growers in this area grow or grew Mun, While their trees were young, until the canopy formed. Your post about research,I am sorry to say, is meaningless to our area, as it refers to Songkla, which is Southern Thailand.Totally different climate ,rainfall patterns ,distribution ,and soils.Only one crop is grown - Mun Sumpalung (Cassava).My understanding is , that for Isarn , the research was conducted by Khon Kaen Uni..<who I am told did and /or do field tests , particularly on Peanuts (groundnuts), Which , personally I thought would have been an ideal crop, but NO ,none are interplanted with or between young rubber trees.Only Mun Sumpalung. Even though 3 years ago ,the price was not good ,everyone still planted Mun. Particular attention must be paid to correct fertilisers ,different for Mun and rubber. And to weed control. From a long history of inter[planting(that is,over many years), there appears absolutely NO detrimental effect on the rubber trees .THat given that about 80 % of our upland areas are planted to rubber. No rubber is interplanted with Paddy, as Paddy must grow IN water, the trees would drown.Some people,now, are trying to grow rubber on the levees around the Paddy fields. None are ready for tapping, as yet. Don't know if it will be successful or not. I have my doubts.

Hi Afarang,

Yes i agree with you in respect of the report i uploaded, in that it is southern based, where the rainfall levels are significantly higher. But it does give credence to the many types of intercropping that can be considered,i am surprised that your research found peanuts were not a suitable option as it is the one crop that i have heard bandied about, albeit we are NE Isaan.

The rice crops that are mentioned are upland rice as opposed to paddy rice, rubber planted on the levies ! If it works good luck to them as its a great way of utilising redundant land.

In my circumstances farming and rubber tapping require two different sets of human resources hence my reasoning to maintain mono culture, but I know many TVM's wish to undertake both operations.

[Canada]

Propagation of Rubber.... anyone know anything about this....I have a lot of rubber trees that I am going to plough under this week.... and I have another 30 rai that I want to convert to rubber in 3 years. Seems that at the price of rubber saplings....

[afarang]

To : TTM- Not only rainfall ,but SOIL types are very different. Our upland soils, due to our proximity to the edge of the plateau, are sandy . Your soils will most probably be heavier. All crops here ,prior to the introduction of rubber , were as you say ,diversified, Many vegetable crops were grown in this area. So, local farmers are very experienced in growing them. Why , they only grow Mun , as an intercrop, I don' know. Growing mun DOES work very well, while the trees are young, and their root system is not well developed. This means Mun is NOT taking nutrients from the rubber. But it is essential that the correct fertilisers are applied,with adequate weed control, as well. By doing this, farmers are assured of a reasonable income , while the rubber is still young. With NO damage to the rubber trees. Or their future yielding. Remember , ALL farmers are aware of how to grow Mun. What they have to learn , much later ,is how to correctly tap the trees, to obtain maximum yield of latex.So, intercropping of Mun is recommended, as it provides income for those first approx. 4 years, with NO damage to the future yielding of the rubber trees.

[tothemark]

To : TTM- Not only rainfall ,but SOIL types are very different. Our upland soils, due to our proximity to the edge of the plateau, are sandy . Your soils will most probably be heavier. All crops here ,prior to the introduction of rubber , were as you say ,diversified, Many vegetable crops were grown in this area. So, local farmers are very experienced in growing them. Why , they only grow Mun , as an intercrop, I don' know. Growing mun DOES work very well, while the trees are young, and their root system is not well developed. This means Mun is NOT taking nutrients from the rubber. But it is essential that the correct fertilisers are applied,with adequate weed control, as well. By doing this, farmers are assured of a reasonable income , while the rubber is still young. With NO damage to the rubber trees. Or their future yielding. Remember , ALL farmers are aware of how to grow Mun. What they have to learn , much later ,is how to correctly tap the trees, to obtain maximum yield of latex.So, intercropping of Mun is recommended, as it provides income for those first approx. 4 years, with NO damage to the future yielding of the rubber trees.

Hi Afarang,

Thanks for providing a response in the true spirit of information exchange.

We have both gone off thread here as my comments are based on mono culture whilst yours are formed on intercropping. But, in my circumstances with rubber tappers workers only and and an ageing fil, i dont have the opportunities that you have to intercrop.

To open up this thread further can you give some costings and returns on mum per rai, as I am sure that others will be interested in the answers.