NATION Journalist Held Up At Gunpoint By 'Police'

[Soutpeel]

I don't think you are required to carry ID in Thailand. You just must produce it in a timely manner if asked for it by the police.

thai should carry their id and foreigners their passports - that's the law. "Timely manner" can be detention at the police station, untill identity can be checked - documents brought to the station or phone call/fax to the police station where you live. It all might take time and certainly is not plaesant

In fact everyone in Thailand is required to carry their ID, except Thais under 15 who don't have one. Foreigners are required to carry their passports or Alien Registration Certificates, if they are permanent residents, or alien ID cards, if they are stateless minorities.

Thai DL or Work permit are also acceptable and not just restricted to your P/P or ARC

[Arkady]

This sounds similar to the police gang that successfully preyed on East Asian foreigners in the Patpong area in the 90s. Their modus operandi was to pounce on people and demand their passports. If they, as in most cases, had no passport with them, they would be arrested for not having one and, if they had one they were arrested on some other pretext. The victims were driven out of Bangkok in a pick up truck with locked doors and robbed and forced to give ATM numbers in a lonely place in the countryside. Those who were working in Thailand and/or spoke good Thai were murdered on the grounds that they were more likely take action against the rogue police officers. Those who were obviously tourists were left wandering around in the dark beaten and dazed until some one found them. Senior police knew about the gang and covered up for them in the face of numerous complaints from foreign embassies over several years. The Tourist Police also almost certainly knew of the rogue operation, since they worked in close proximity over several years in Patpong. The police criminals involved were often drunk like the ones in this story and sometimes bungled the robberies and murder attempts. At least one Chinese victim who was marked for death managed to escape into the jungle before they got around to shooting him and the police were unable to catch and kill him. Some others also managed to get away before being pushed into their truck, while some of the "dumb" tourists did give detailed evidence to their embassies. Eventually the pressure from the Chinese government on the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs to do something in the face of compelling evidence that Thai police were serially robbing and murdering their nationals and other East Asians forced the government to make the police to cough up some of its finest sons for prosecution. If I remember rightly about eight Bangkok policemen, including one or two Chinese speakers, were ultimately sentenced for murder and robbery. There were from different units but moonlighted to form their own death squad in the evenings. Presumably the commanders of their real units knew about their extracurricula activities and received a rake off to turn a blind eye. Who needs criminals when we have cops like this??!!

[crazydrummerpauly]

The poor high season is creating a smaller pool of victims for the sharks to feed off, they are becoming more desperate going to greater lengths to feed their bank accounts. Tea money is getting harder to get, it harder to scam an organised tour group than individual tourists. The BKK BIB travel to Pattaya and shake down bars, the Pattaya BIB set up jetski scams and now it seem travelling to BKK to hunt money. It all stinks of desperation, soon, with a bit of luck, the sharks will be eating each other.

That is a very chilling scenario Waza - tourist numbers decline partly due to Thailand's increasingly scary image,

so the behaviours that make it scary have to be focussed on the smaller pool of tourists still arriving....leading

to even more fear.....and even fewer tourists etc etc...yikes ! Statistically this would of course mean that for all

the remaining tourists, the likeliehood of being scammed or attacked or robbed would go up and up, assuming

that the number of bad-guys remains steady or increases. Gloom. As for the "sharks eating each other" - wouldn't

that be great - but i think they already do from time-to-time ? Depends on the definition of sharks - spreading the

net to include all business people and politicians, they've been feeding off each other or worse, 'eliminating the

competition', for a long time. "Stinks of desperation"....jeeze, what a great phrase - apologies in advance to all the

uncritical LOS admirers, but for me that phrase sums up so much of the behaviour and atmosphere in this beautiful land.

Edited January 13, 2011 by crazydrummerpauly

[fullerphoto]

Now that's how you sell newspapers!

[draftvader]

This is a very aggressive version of the daily shake-down many of us foreign vehicle owners experience. I have had a policeman ask me to go to an ATM. I told him that I did not have my ATM card on me (I didn't, it was in my bike seat) and I only had the B100 that I keep next to my licence (my B5,000 was in my seat as well!). After being padded down he finally chose to believe me (he had screwed his chances of writing a ticket when he quoted B1,000). The incident that I am talking about was a real policeman at the Pratunam junction in Bangkok. This situation seems to be, however, impersonators. This is not difficult to do, you just have to head down Bunsiri (or many other locations in BKK) and you can buy the full outfit (army, police, whatever) with weapons to match.

Note: It is a legal requirement to carry ID at all times in Thailand. However your full passport is just ADVISED. I have found that a colour copy of the ID page of my passport shrunk to credit card size and laminated has been sufficient in the first instance to give them a clue as to who I am and where I am from. I have only once been asked to bring my full passport to the police station and this request was "forgotten" once they found my B100 note.

Shameful....but still cheaper than motoring in England.

[pipo1000]

While reading the OP I got the strange feeling that Pattaya One has taken over The Nation.

[waza]

The poor high season is creating a smaller pool of victims for the sharks to feed off, they are becoming more desperate going to greater lengths to feed their bank accounts. Tea money is getting harder to get, it harder to scam an organised tour group than individual tourists. The BKK BIB travel to Pattaya and shake down bars, the Pattaya BIB set up jetski scams and now it seem travelling to BKK to hunt money. It all stinks of desperation, soon, with a bit of luck, the sharks will be eating each other.

That is a very chilling scenario Waza - tourist numbers decline partly due to Thailand's increasingly scary image,

so the behaviours that make it scary have to be focussed on the smaller pool of tourists still arriving....leading

to even more fear.....and even fewer tourists etc etc...yikes ! Statistically this would of course mean that for all

the remaining tourists, the likeliehood of being scammed or attacked or robbed would go up and up, assuming

that the number of bad-guys remains steady or increases. Gloom. As for the "sharks eating each other" - wouldn't

that be great - but i think they already do from time-to-time ? Depends on the definition of sharks - spreading the

net to include all business people and politicians, they've been feeding off each other or worse, 'eliminating the

competition', for a long time. "Stinks of desperation"....jeeze, what a great phrase - apologies in advance to all the

uncritical LOS admirers, but for me that phrase sums up so much of the behaviour and atmosphere in this beautiful land.

I was just refering it to BIB, Mafia and tourists, but spreading the net you could argue that the Red and Yellow battle is about fightinhg for and defending a share of the dwindling resources. Gone are the smiles replaced by the grimace, the expat dream of paradise is fading.

Edited January 13, 2011 by waza

[Arkady]

I don't think you are required to carry ID in Thailand. You just must produce it in a timely manner if asked for it by the police.

thai should carry their id and foreigners their passports - that's the law. "Timely manner" can be detention at the police station, untill identity can be checked - documents brought to the station or phone call/fax to the police station where you live. It all might take time and certainly is not plaesant

In fact everyone in Thailand is required to carry their ID, except Thais under 15 who don't have one. Foreigners are required to carry their passports or Alien Registration Certificates, if they are permanent residents, or alien ID cards, if they are stateless minorities.

Thai DL or Work permit are also acceptable and not just restricted to your P/P or ARC

Yes, this does seem to be true in the case of genuine police who legitimately want to establish a foreigner's ID, even though they can legally demand PP or ARC. Indeed traffic police have never asked for more ID than a DL, even while booking me for a misdemeanor. If you are a PR (or Thai), your ID number is on your DL and they should be able to check your immigration status from that over the phone and all other personal information including how much tax you pay. I don't know what number goes on the DL of foreigners on temporary visas but it should also be trackable, if they have a mind to. I am lucky enough to have a lifetime Thai driving licence which traffic police know were not readily given to illegal immigrants and are now no longer available even for Thai citizens.

[geriatrickid]

There is a simple solution. A Crackdown on corruption.

Mr. Abhisit can lead the way. Maybe he can go undercover.

[Bagwan]

they were real policemen, one in uniform, with badges and guns.

why they didn't stop at the journalist's house to check his passport (foreigners are obliged to carry their pass at all time - or at least a cophy of it) is a little strange, probably they decided, that wallets/ring/mobiles would be an easier prise, than entering the house and leaving empty handed.

I don't think you are required to carry ID in Thailand. You just must produce it in a timely manner if asked for it by the police.

I agree. The local Colonel talking to the Ex_Pats Club in Pattaya some time ago said that the police were mindful of the value of passports and their use by terrorist groups and stated that a photocopy of the page containing the personal details would suffice as would a long term driving licence. My understanding is that a timely manner is two hours and that you could take the policeman to your home to show him. I was stopped just outside Kabin Buri and the officious little swine would accept neither my driving licence or the photocopy of my passport. I educated him re my understanding of the law and offered to take him to my home in Jomtien. I added that the law said nothing about bringing him back so he would have to make his own arrangements, I was immediately waved on. I pushed my luck and asked him to write his name down for me as I intended to drive to the Kabin Buri police station and make a formal complaint. His progress back to his motor bike compared with that of Johnny Ghurka on the march.

I would like to see all policeman show their service number on their uniforms. Not only would this assist in identifying the crook when making complaints but would be helpful in finding them when they get lost.

[Bagwan]

they were real policemen, one in uniform, with badges and guns.

why they didn't stop at the journalist's house to check his passport (foreigners are obliged to carry their pass at all time - or at least a cophy of it) is a little strange, probably they decided, that wallets/ring/mobiles would be an easier prise, than entering the house and leaving empty handed.

Anyone can buy a BIB uniform in BKK just getting the size right, there are many shops that openly sell Police uniforms and accessories

There is a stall outside the Banglamung nick. I know a guy who bought a shiny police badge from there which he affixed to the grill of his car. He pointed it out to a cop on the make and said that he was driving his wife's car and she had been given it by her father, a Police Major, when he bought his Benz.. He was waved on according to him.

[oldsailor35]

It is good that the Nation is printing this. This kind of thing has been going on for years. It would be surprising if these criminals did not have some sort of informal relationship with the local police.

I don't expect it will stop but it may disappear or relocate for a while.

sounds like someones afraid of some media and public opposition, after having it cushy for so many years. It shows that the public are becoming a little less afraid, and are starting to fight back, that is why there is all this recent agro from the mafia click.

The biggest crime problem in Bangkok is the police. They commit most of it and fail to stop any of it. It's absolutely third world ridiculous!

Calling them monkeys is giving them too much credit. Some day these little peices of human waste will pick the wrong farang to mess with and they'll get what they deserve. Hopefully this incident shines a big spotlight on the issue. But the Thais don't really care what happens to a farang here. They dont even care that their own government steals them blind. Like I said - third world at best! If it weren't for the beautiful girls most in the west wouldn't even be able to find Thailand on a map let alone go there! I love my Thai wife and I actually love Thailand. I just can't stand how corrupt the people in power are and how little the Thai people care.

Oh ! i think they care alright, but what can the do, if they protest they just get called terrorists and slung in jail. I cannot understand why there are so many farang who support the Police, Govt., and Military behaviour, they are just muppets.

[jayjay0]

I had a friend who a police man tried to shake down hopping to find drugs (witch my friend did not have). As the scam started going bad the police man pulled his gun and pointed it at my friends head hoping this would cause him to show the drugs he thought he might have on him. Sad. They really need to thin the ranks I say get rid of half or more of the force. So many bad apples it has to be hard to even think were to start.

Thank you for a sensible post.

I for one am sick and tired of the constant stream of posters willing to condemn all the police men.

Definitely thin the ranks. There are many good cops unable to operate as they would like to due to the pressure from the bad apples.

Edited January 13, 2011 by jayjay0

[johncat1]

maybe 10 % FACT and 90 % FICTION

We all know the Thais live in a dream world of fantasies

If they lived in the REAL world this would be a much better country STOP DREAMING AND START WORKING !!!

In the West the police are respected and except for a VERY SMALL minority they are honest

In Thailand it seems to be the opposite. Most police are corrupt and a VERY SMALL minority are honest

Edited January 13, 2011 by johncat1

[joefromdc]

I had a friend who a police man tried to shake down hopping to find drugs (witch my friend did not have). As the scam started going bad the police man pulled his gun and pointed it at my friends head hoping this would cause him to show the drugs he thought he might have on him. Sad. They really need to thin the ranks I say get rid of half or more of the force. So many bad apples it has to be hard to even think were to start.

Thank you for a sensible post.

I for one am sick and tired of the constant stream of posters willing to condemn all the police men.

Definitely thin the ranks. There are many good cops unable to operate as they would like to due to the pressure from the bad apples.

If the good cops aren't able to act as good cops because of the bad ones, doesn't that mean all cops are behaving as though they are bad? What defines a good cop or bad cop within this logic?

[OxfordWill]

You said "instead of turning into Suan Phlu and Immigration". When did this event take place? Immigration moved from Suan Phlu ages ago.

Bingo.

There is still immigration at Suan Phlu what has changed is what type of immigration it deals with. It is reasonable at that alleged location to assume the men meant the nearest immigration and not Chaengwattana.

Edited January 13, 2011 by OxfordWill

[MaiChai]

Did the Nation reporter file a police report (ideally some distance from the crime so that the local station does not try to hush it up)?

I have encountered this Thai racism against Indians before. For the person who made the comment to me, I reminded him that The Lord Buddha was an Indian.

[oldsailor35]

ot really

The poor high season is creating a smaller pool of victims for the sharks to feed off, they are becoming more desperate going to greater lengths to feed their bank accounts. Tea money is getting harder to get, it harder to scam an organised tour group than individual tourists. The BKK BIB travel to Pattaya and shake down bars, the Pattaya BIB set up jetski scams and now it seem travelling to BKK to hunt money. It all stinks of desperation, soon, with a bit of luck, the sharks will be eating each other.

That is a very chilling scenario Waza - tourist numbers decline partly due to Thailand's increasingly scary image,

so the behaviours that make it scary have to be focussed on the smaller pool of tourists still arriving....leading

to even more fear.....and even fewer tourists etc etc...yikes ! Statistically this would of course mean that for all

the remaining tourists, the likeliehood of being scammed or attacked or robbed would go up and up, assuming

that the number of bad-guys remains steady or increases. Gloom. As for the "sharks eating each other" - wouldn't

that be great - but i think they already do from time-to-time ? Depends on the definition of sharks - spreading the

net to include all business people and politicians, they've been feeding off each other or worse, 'eliminating the

competition', for a long time. "Stinks of desperation"....jeeze, what a great phrase - apologies in advance to all the

uncritical LOS admirers, but for me that phrase sums up so much of the behaviour and atmosphere in this beautiful land.

I was just refering it to BIB, Mafia and tourists, but spreading the net you could argue that the Red and Yellow battle is about fightinhg for and defending a share of the dwindling resources. Gone are the smiles replaced by the grimace, the expat dream of paradise is fading.

Not really. Reading these pages i get the impression that these bad actions of curruption etc., are mainly carried out in 3 main tourists spots. Namely Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya. with perhaps Pai trying to copy. Where i live on Samui, life seems pretty well normal with perhaps just a little "Tea money" collecting from month to month when the crash helmet problem is getting out of control.

[adwbkk]

Some of you are so clever, after reading these posts I still could not see where it said the OP did NOT make a police report. I must have missed it I guess.

[bangkockney]

If the "Google-Meter" is a fair measure, (and online news stories are perhaps only the tip of the iceberg), then it is easy to conclude that the Thai police seem to have a very good track record of targeting foreigners. In fact, I am thinking that the skill and enthusiasm of the Thai police in these matters could perhaps be utilized to spawn a new "thrill-seeker" style of "realism-tourism".. (I'm also thinking that HousePainter could write a fine piece of humour from this angle…)

The Statistics, from a Web-Centric point of view..

If you do a "focused" Google (key words in parenthesis) you get the following raw results.. (I used http://www.google.com.sg for this exercise in relatively uncensored news gathering..)

"Thai Police" + "Extortion" = 29,400 results (and a few fit the profile…)

"Thai Police" + "kidnap" + "foreigner" = 4,190 results (I thought it would have been more..)

"Thai police" + "Murder" + "foreigner" = 13,900 results (I hoped for a lower number..)

A few no-parenthesis Googles..

Thai police murder British Couple - -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Adam_Lloyd_and_Vanessa_Arscott

Thai police kill Canadian (193,00 results, this story stays, and stays on the blogosphere..)

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/2008/07/19/canadians-protest-murder-by-thai-police-july-19-08/

Then there are other news stories, where the hidden story of the police crime against the foreigner is way more interesting than the public story..

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2007/04/14/headlines/headlines_30031870.php http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/thai-police-arrested-over-kidnapping/2007/04/14/1175971400598.html?s_cid=rss_smh

JD

"UK Police" + "Extortion" = 155,000 results

"UK Police" + "kidnap" + "foreigner" = 31,800 results

"UK Police" + "Murder" + "foreigner" = 51,200 results

Unqualified stats are meaningless.

[oldsailor35]

ot really

The poor high season is creating a smaller pool of victims for the sharks to feed off, they are becoming more desperate going to greater lengths to feed their bank accounts. Tea money is getting harder to get, it harder to scam an organised tour group than individual tourists. The BKK BIB travel to Pattaya and shake down bars, the Pattaya BIB set up jetski scams and now it seem travelling to BKK to hunt money. It all stinks of desperation, soon, with a bit of luck, the sharks will be eating each other.

That is a very chilling scenario Waza - tourist numbers decline partly due to Thailand's increasingly scary image,

so the behaviours that make it scary have to be focussed on the smaller pool of tourists still arriving....leading

to even more fear.....and even fewer tourists etc etc...yikes ! Statistically this would of course mean that for all

the remaining tourists, the likeliehood of being scammed or attacked or robbed would go up and up, assuming

that the number of bad-guys remains steady or increases. Gloom. As for the "sharks eating each other" - wouldn't

that be great - but i think they already do from time-to-time ? Depends on the definition of sharks - spreading the

net to include all business people and politicians, they've been feeding off each other or worse, 'eliminating the

competition', for a long time. "Stinks of desperation"....jeeze, what a great phrase - apologies in advance to all the

uncritical LOS admirers, but for me that phrase sums up so much of the behaviour and atmosphere in this beautiful land.

I was just refering it to BIB, Mafia and tourists, but spreading the net you could argue that the Red and Yellow battle is about fightinhg for and defending a share of the dwindling resources. Gone are the smiles replaced by the grimace, the expat dream of paradise is fading.

Not really. Reading these pages i get the impression that these bad actions of curruption etc., are mainly carried out in 3 main tourists spots. Namely Bangkok, Phuket and Pattaya. with perhaps Pai trying to copy. Where i live on Samui, life seems pretty well normal with perhaps just a little "Tea money" collecting from month to month when the crash helmet problem is getting out of control.

Sorry about the doubling up on post! I am on holiday in SE Queensland at the moment and flood water is playing havoc with everything including my wi-fi. connection.

Edited January 13, 2011 by oldsailor35

[bkkjames]

In Vancouver they have the best police force money can buy I hear.

Here it's apparently the worst.

[stander]

I would suggest that the OP's crime was insulting the journalism profession by working for the Nation.

[MJP]

Did the Nation reporter file a police report (ideally some distance from the crime so that the local station does not try to hush it up)?

I have encountered this Thai racism against Indians before. For the person who made the comment to me, I reminded him that The Lord Buddha was an Indian.

. . . and their curries are way, waaaay better. I'll take a mixed Balti over that green stuff any day.

[johncat1]

In Vancouver they have the best police force money can buy I hear.

Here it's apparently the worst.

No !!! In Thailand they have the best police force money can buy I hear BUT WHOSE MONEY ? 5555555555555555

Sorry to contradict you but EVERYONE knows the " British Bobby " (uniform policeman ) is the symbol of a perfect police officer the world over

Try bribing one and you will soon find out ................ ha ha ha

[Payboy]

If the Nation is hiring any non-native English speakers as journalists then all those should be Thais. Whatever happened to Nationalism?

[chuang]

You said "instead of turning into Suan Phlu and Immigration". When did this event take place? Immigration moved from Suan Phlu ages ago.

Before immigration moved from Suan Phlu...

Edited January 13, 2011 by chuang

[blabla1]

Problem is you have no one you can go to for help, fake Police took my gfs ID card, so we called the real Police,the real Police came and said she could go report this at Wat Phrasing Police station, one hour later,i get the call to bring 30,000baht to get her released,, so much for going willingly to a Police station and asking for help,yes they had the id card!!!

[zappalot]

You said "instead of turning into Suan Phlu and Immigration". When did this event take place? Immigration moved from Suan Phlu ages ago.

Bingo.

so there are at least two members who dont know how the things are:

the immigration detention center, where people without valid visa are deported to is in

Immigration Detention Center (IDC)

507 Soi Suan Plu (Sathorn Soi 3)

Sathorn Tai Road

Here is an official link including a map: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=location

We can meet there to make u two and the other blank-faced sure.

If i hadnt already had unbelievable incidents with thai police i maybe would not believe this story, too.

[swillowbee]

"This is Bangkok, not the badlands of Pakistan or Iraq"

_________________________________________________________

... yes ... it is Thailand ... a culture in near freefall ... so ... what about Thailand makes it "not the badlands of Pakistan or Iraq"?