Majority Of Thais Willing To Sell Their Votes: Poll

[Dukeleto]

Silly system if you ask me. If your ballot is secret how does anyone know you voted for the party who paid you. Collect 500 and vote on who you want anyway! If your ballot is not secret...then not much point in an election!

[Nisa]

Because I lived in England worked -and earned 100 bht a week as a butcher, at 15--Yes, and pushed a pram 2 miles to get mother coal. didn,t have a bike. wore my uncles handed down clothes, later in life I had 3 jobs in 1 day,6 hours sleap a day for ten years to get here, and I wanted to see how it felt as a thai, so I could understand them more, and lived in the rural north. Sort of coming back down to my childhood, doing this not on an ego trip-enjoyed it.

You have been here 30-years (according to an earlier post), worked a sh@t job at 15 and then later in life worked 10 years only getting 6-hours asleep a night to be able to get here and get back to your childhood. Kind of sounds like you have made a conscious choice to spend the better part of 55 years choosing to work hard and live poor. I would think this doesn't qualify you any more than us in terms of understanding Thais.

For your information book worm, A butchers trade is not a sh+t job, what an ignorant remark. What sh+t job did you do after school.? My remarks were answering another clever individual. I dont find working hard and long for 10 years to enable me to be here wrong. Wanting to be able to feel how hard their low pay work is -you have to do it to know -not look on google and Qualify you--555 You don;t have a licence, you didn,t know if they had organised driving tuition here!! (defending the wrong )and always comparing the u.s.a.-with here. He--the poster before you) thought I was a person thats from money-or I had plenty, he was wrong-I defended myself and gave him examples---you came in with no common sense and lectured me-r..sole. you have a nerve. get out of the library more, When you have more experience in hardship, then you may qualify.

Relax killer. You seem incredibly argumentative and emotional and you appear to be contradicting yourself in addition to accusing me of something you took great offense in somebody supposedly doing to you (though I feel no strong urge to defend my life experiences on an online forum). As I said in my last sentence above, these things make you no more qualified than the rest of us when it comes to understanding Thais. This was my only point in terms of your stories of hardship.

Put your understanding of Thais to work; mai pen rai ... jai yen yen

Edited January 17, 2011 by Nisa

[jdinasia]

Silly system if you ask me. If your ballot is secret how does anyone know you voted for the party who paid you. Collect 500 and vote on who you want anyway! If your ballot is not secret...then not much point in an election!

Ballots are not always as secret as one would wish (see the previous elections for examples of voting booths placed where they could be observed,) but there is a bit more to the system of vote-buying. The number of voters in a given district is finite. The canvassers etc know who votes where. They have access to the money in the villages and the village headman has to deal with them ... there are consequences should a village not vote the way they were paid to, from mundane but meaningful --- to regional money gets spent there for upgrading infrastructure ... to more significant.

[asiawatcher]

And why wouldn't they allow their vote to be bought? They know the politicians will not keep 90% of their promises so they are just getting a hand out for nothing. And most will take the hand out from both sides.

[ianf]

Other experience.

Tambon elections in Lampang district.

The red mayor (8 years the big boss) has been kicked out. Not enough money for vote bying.

Results> dems win 4 to 2 and the mayor.

Dems had deeper pockets then.

Not necessarily.

[ianf]

Interesting the highest percentage in the North East. I thought they were all in favor of democracy. the poll go's to show that only a minority are interested in Democracy. As long as they can get a Baht in the hand now who cares.

Then we come to Bangkok the second highest percentage. The stronghold of the yellow shirts who only wanted to grant 30% of the seats to be filled by voting.

And lost in the middle is the people who really believe in democracy .

oops forgot to mention how predictable.

Where have you been. :rolleyes:

These Red Shirts only come to protest because they are paid for the day they come to Bkk.

Some of the money for these protest come from the big shops to make sure these protest are some place outside of their business areas

Sounds like nonsense to me!

[geriatrickid]

As has been stated above, electoral fraud is one of the key issues, not vote buying Let's drop the moral pretense and acknowledge that vote buying is an unfortunate aspect of the democratic system. Western politicians do it all the time when they promise they won't close a redundant military base in a US congressional district despite the base sucking up millions of dollars. MPs do it throughout the Commonwealth promising to fund a specific project in a riding or send contracts to big donors. Western countries pay the cost of such activity just as Thailand does. The Thai approach is probably less costly but no less corrupt than the western practice.

Its all about the integrity at the ballot box. Those that feel they are disenfranchised, impoverished and marginalized are more likely to succumb to overt vote buying. People only refuse when their political anger is such to force them to make a stand.

Earlier in the thread mention was made of the lack of privacy when voting. That nailed it perfectly. If anyone wants to make a stand against vote buying, protect the integrity of the ballot box. Make it a confidential matter with no ability for scrutineers to see how people voted.

[atyclb]

Just because you decided to live like bear grylls for a bit and like to think by wiping your arse with leafs makes you like the thais in the NE, it doesn't. You do have money if you live in Thailand or are from money. You haven't grown up with nothing, had to walk km's for water, slept outside on a bench and worked on a farm alday for 100bht and then have to send your parents money.

If you did you would be taking the money and voting and not yappping on a forum about people taking 500bht to vote, it's not aimed at you. Mostly the idiots on TV that have thousands of posts moaning about Thailand or thai people, yet still choose to live here.

Threads such as this one do seem to reveal a large number of idiots posting on this forum who can't wait to tell the world how stupid they think Thai people are. It says a lot about them that they ended up living here and in many cases, judging from the comments they make about their own wives and families, have managed to fit in well at the very bottom of Thai society.

I too have been wondering about this; but to each their own. Perhaps that situation is relatively superior to that of the ex missus in the UK, or US or wherever. live and let live. Cest la vie.

[ginjag]

Because I lived in England worked -and earned 100 bht a week as a butcher, at 15--Yes, and pushed a pram 2 miles to get mother coal. didn,t have a bike. wore my uncles handed down clothes, later in life I had 3 jobs in 1 day,6 hours sleap a day for ten years to get here, and I wanted to see how it felt as a thai, so I could understand them more, and lived in the rural north. Sort of coming back down to my childhood, doing this not on an ego trip-enjoyed it.

You have been here 30-years (according to an earlier post), worked a sh@t job at 15 and then later in life worked 10 years only getting 6-hours asleep a night to be able to get here and get back to your childhood. Kind of sounds like you have made a conscious choice to spend the better part of 55 years choosing to work hard and live poor. I would think this doesn't qualify you any more than us in terms of understanding Thais.

For your information book worm, A butchers trade is not a sh+t job, what an ignorant remark. What sh+t job did you do after school.? My remarks were answering another clever individual. I dont find working hard and long for 10 years to enable me to be here wrong. Wanting to be able to feel how hard their low pay work is -you have to do it to know -not look on google and Qualify you--555 You don;t have a licence, you didn,t know if they had organised driving tuition here!! (defending the wrong )and always comparing the u.s.a.-with here. He--the poster before you) thought I was a person thats from money-or I had plenty, he was wrong-I defended myself and gave him examples---you came in with no common sense and lectured me-r..sole. you have a nerve. get out of the library more, When you have more experience in hardship, then you may qualify.

Relax killer. You seem incredibly argumentative and emotional and you appear to be contradicting yourself in addition to accusing me of something you took great offense in somebody supposedly doing to you (though I feel no strong urge to defend my life experiences on an online forum). As I said in my last sentence above, these things make you no more qualified than the rest of us when it comes to understanding Thais. This was my only point in terms of your stories of hardship.

Put your understanding of Thais to work; mai pen rai ... jai yen yen

I would like to be involved more in the said subject, rather than having to reply to people who can give it but can;t take it-- Look at all your posts an you accuse meof being argumentative. dont side track, your comments were more offensive than his -'Sh+t Job'. really !!!! maybe if you did here what I did and got hands on. you would feel better for Knowing Thais. I loved my butchers job by the way-Killer-even if I did get 100 baht a week. now lets get on with this vote buying business.

[dighambara]

Interesting the highest percentage in the North East. I thought they were all in favor of democracy. the poll go's to show that only a minority are interested in Democracy. As long as they can get a Baht in the hand now who cares.

Then we come to Bangkok the second highest percentage. The stronghold of the yellow shirts who only wanted to grant 30% of the seats to be filled by voting.

And lost in the middle is the people who really believe in democracy .

oops forgot to mention how predictable.

Red shirt rallys offer a free shirt, a meal and 100 Baht just to attend the rally. At bigger rallys, they sometimes offer a 1000 Baht for anyone who gets arrested/ photo in the paper. Of course, the money comes from the corrupt rich in Bangkok, who are taking advantage of the poor so they can increase their own power.

Need a reason for martial law, create a riot...

[KeyserSoze01]

Just another tin-pot kingdom with the morals of an alley cat.

Sure, buy me some Som Tam, a new pair of flip flops and a bottle of Lao Khao and I'll vote for you.

Worked for old square jaw.

[ginjag]

Interesting the highest percentage in the North East. I thought they were all in favor of democracy.

No, they were just paid to say that.

My wife's family make about 500 baht each for very illegible voter in their family. I ask a while back as they were collecting their money where I could get mine and they just laughed.

That's what my gf said too. She also said that sometimes the village leader would get a bulk payment to ensure all the votes in the moo baan. He would then disseminate it amongst the families.

This does happen in many areas, our village is small, and that happens here. in the larger Tambons not so much. Many posters mention "the said rate" there isn't a said rate -it varies from area to area. maybe more is paid in areas that feels more threatened from opposition, or to persuade the voter with an extra 100. I do know of amounts ranging from 200-a few thousand baht given. Living rural, its an accepted thing at vote time. and until you get the U.N. involved in each village to observe, :lol: it will never change.

[ableguy]

They should just take the money from the crooked politicians and then go and vote for whoever they want anyway...after all, their vote is secret, is it not? Better still, take money from both sides...

My understading is the vote is not secret, money buys anything here and the sooner all us ex pats get used to the idea there will be a lot less suggestions on this forum on how to make the country as we would like it to be , most of us are here for the ladies , sunshine and cost of living, so please stop moaning and get on with the lifestyle you have all chosen, this is directed at all the members who would change things to meet their own idea of jistice blah blah blah.

[ginjag]

Just another tin-pot kingdom with the morals of an alley cat.

Sure, buy me some Som Tam, a new pair of flip flops and a bottle of Lao Khao and I'll vote for you.

Worked for old square jaw.

:lol: Thought '' Sinatra'' was on Lao Khao. with his Cheshire cat grin, :bah: ..... more than likely Blue Label.

[ableguy]

Just another tin-pot kingdom with the morals of an alley cat.

Sure, buy me some Som Tam, a new pair of flip flops and a bottle of Lao Khao and I'll vote for you.

Worked for old square jaw.

Hey my wife was an alley cat in her past life, please show resoect for alley cats.

[ableguy]

Ahhh... Thailand, the hub of everything on sale.

TheWalkingMan

Including their grandmother's ass.

Sorry buddy not or me

[ableguy]

Thai majority would take vote bribes: poll

BANGKOK, January 16, 2011 (AFP) - Most Thai people would be willing to accept money from election candidates to buy their votes in the politically divided kingdom, according to a poll published Sunday.

Nearly 80 per cent of the respondents admitted vote-buying took place in their communities, said the Abac poll conducted by Assumption University, whose results were published on the English-language Bangkok Post website.

Of those surveyed, 53.2 percent said they would take such electoral bribes.

Another 40.2 percent would not accept the money, while 6.6 per cent were non-committal, according to the survey of 2,604 eligible voters in 18 provinces of Thailand, where a national election is due some time this year.

Nearly 70 percent of those who said they would take the bribes were from the northeast -- the heartland of Thailand's anti-government "Red Shirts" -- while the next biggest group were those in Bangkok.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-01-16

How about this, The 40.2 per cent of THAIS for selling their votes go talk with the 53.2 per cent against it. Because you, and every other farang's opinion is going to make a shit's worth of difference. F.A.C.T.

you got your numbers back to front, guess you must be a Thai with a college degree.

[letitbe]

My wife's family make about 500 baht each for very illegible voter in their family. I ask a while back as they were collecting their money where I could get mine and they just laughed.

That is pretty cheap....

Around some districts here....

Each was collecting 5,000 THB....

One of our assistants was asking for a day off to help disbursing money....

dont be silly it cant be that cheap to buy a vote for goodness sake that would only pay my maid for 1 month it must be at least 20,000 baht each or how else could they live and pay the maid let alone the air con and sat TV

[puipuitom]

When you are willing to sell your voting power ways for peanuts, do not be astonished, when you are treated as monkey.

My question: why any politician is willing to PAY to get this job ? I have only one explanation: because he can steel back more as his/her investment.

Steel = corruption, tax money OR increase of purchases ( remind: checks at Suvarnabhumi airport or .. 2 different sky trains) OR selling below value ( land where in the future an airport is going to be built ) or negelect other Thai interests.

How come Thai voters can be so stupid.

[letitbe]

When you are willing to sell your voting power ways for peanuts, do not be astonished, when you are treated as monkey.

My question: why any politician is willing to PAY to get this job ? I have only one explanation: because he can steel back more as his/her investment.

Steel = corruption, tax money OR increase of purchases ( remind: checks at Suvarnabhumi airport or .. 2 different sky trains) OR selling below value ( land where in the future an airport is going to be built ) or negelect other Thai interests.

How come Thai voters can be so stupid.

most voters are stupid not only Thai voters hence bush in USA brown blair in UK All or most politicians are totally corrupt not only here most places Just check their bank balances before they came into office and then when they left But of course in USA and UK its all legal bonus's consulting books directorships jobs for boys At least here the corruption is known in the west its worse and hidden and stupid voters don't even understand they are being conned by politicians

[JohnAllan]

My wife's family make about 500 baht each for very illegible voter in their family. I ask a while back as they were collecting their money where I could get mine and they just laughed.

Did you really mean illegible?

And once again, Winnie's 'quote' is being misquoted.

[JohnAllan]

When you are willing to sell your voting power ways for peanuts, do not be astonished, when you are treated as monkey.

My question: why any politician is willing to PAY to get this job ? I have only one explanation: because he can steel back more as his/her investment.

Steel = corruption, tax money OR increase of purchases ( remind: checks at Suvarnabhumi airport or .. 2 different sky trains) OR selling below value ( land where in the future an airport is going to be built ) or negelect other Thai interests.

How come Thai voters can be so stupid.

most voters are stupid not only Thai voters hence bush in USA brown blair in UK All or most politicians are totally corrupt not only here most places Just check their bank balances before they came into office and then when they left But of course in USA and UK its all legal bonus's consulting books directorships jobs for boys At least here the corruption is known in the west its worse and hidden and stupid voters don't even understand they are being conned by politicians

Oh, believe me: they know, in the UK, that many politicians are con artists. Hence, the outcry over their expenses. And Brown was not elected as the Labour leader, and hence to the prime ministership.

[XXpate48USA]

I have to give these vote-selling Thais more credit for being smart than I usually would. At least they've caught on that it doesn't really matter who gets voted into office as politicians are not in office to serve the people -- they're there to serve big business and elitists. Why not sell one's vote? It makes no difference.

After the last US elections, I hope many people, and especially the youth, realize that there isn't really any such thing as democracy. Obama seemed as opposite a candidate to Bush as anyone could be. However, we can all see that there has been virtually no change from the Bush administration. Health care has been deferred (to keep the rich doctors happy), more soldiers are in Iraq and Afghanistan than ever before, Obama has increase the US military budget to new highs, etc. So it really doesn't matter which clown gets voted in or what the name of the party is that he belongs to. None of them get into power without being approved by the obscenely rich elite.

I'd sell my vote in a heartbeat anywhere in the world. Politicians and their elections are nothing more than smoke and mirrors to fool people into believing that they actually have some choice and power in their lives.

In America it is a "Republic" which most never realize that a democracy is not what Ameica was founded on although even the politicians don't know what a democracy is. A republic is where the governement stands for smaller governent and less wasting of the peoples taxes. Obama has borrowed and spent more money than all the previous presidents put together since Geaorge washingon in just 18 months and has had the highest unemployment rates since the great depression of 1929. Our grandchildrens children will be working to pay off this federal deficit that the Obama administration has incurred upon the American people, while the bush administration kept taxes to a locked in low so the economy can stay within its limits to help create jobs and not punish the job creators.The people that make over 250k per year. It's no wonder why we threw the democrats out of office after the last elections. The Burock husein Obama croud has practically obliterated our economy. Bush was fighting two wars an keeping the economy going until Obama started his stupid idea of thowing borrowed money at everything to get the economy going. Well, what happened? now, America will try to dig out of the hole he has put us in and cut he has cut defense spending while china and other countys are building up thier defenses or offenses depending on how you look at that. The complete corruption that started when Obama was elected has eclipsed anything any previous administration has ever done. If American can survive one more year of this admin. then we may have a chance to recover but that will take a decade of the fiscal responsibilitys of the conservative party to do. The amount of corruption that has been done in just the last 18 months of Obama has effected all the countrys of the world. Obama can not even run a 7-11 let alone a country. The people that voted this meglamaniac into office sure got change we can belive in, for sure. Not one of the ignorants that voted for this fellow are now pleased with what they got. The last election showed just that. 9.8% unemplyed and with a cost of a trillion borrrowed dollars. I truly believe this man is trying to destroy systematically this Country we call America. As much damage as he can possibly do as fast as he can.

The last 25 years of liberal indoctrination was what happened. As out old enemys used to say America can be destroyed from the inside out and not from abroad. This is happening before our very eyes since 2008 after Bush left Office. if anyone has looked at who Obama has surrounded himself with and done any kind of reading, then one can see just who this guy is.

The democrats of this last 20 years are the most corrupt voting frauds and election thieves and then try to blame the other side for their exact actions. News media?..nothing but left liberal nutz. The left even wants to silence anything radio/tv that brings attention to what is really happening. It's time America wake up and get away from the complete apathy because it is now coming home to roost. Thailand is doing the same thing. All for a buck, anything, anytime. Make a deal or else. Vote? who cares as long as they get paid. Obama? who cares as long as the left get to change america for the worse and become a third world also. Protect out borders?. ha....he can't even do that to try and save America. The flload gates are wide open for illegals to come and get free tax payers money while never paying a penny into the system. on and on....they've found welfare then they found social securioty and now theyhave found labor and industries checks....amazing how many illegals can get huirt on the job and collect a paycheck. The golden goose is about to start laying rotten eggs. Then they will go while Americans try and rebuild what we had. Thanks Obama! America will become Thailand if this does not stop!!!

America will recover and learn from this lesson. I hope these young blind kids that voted this guy in will see what they've done and finally see reality rather than ideology.

These two forms of government: Democracy and Republic, are not only dissimilar but antithetical, reflecting the sharp contrast between (a) The Majority Unlimited, in a Democracy, lacking any legal safeguard of the rights of The Individual and The Minority, and ( The Majority Limited, in a Republic under a written Constitution safeguarding the rights of The Individual and The Minority; as we shall now see.

[XXpate48USA]

I have to give these vote-selling Thais more credit for being smart than I usually would. At least they've caught on that it doesn't really matter who gets voted into office as politicians are not in office to serve the people -- they're there to serve big business and elitists. Why not sell one's vote? It makes no difference.

After the last US elections, I hope many people, and especially the youth, realize that there isn't really any such thing as democracy. Obama seemed as opposite a candidate to Bush as anyone could be. However, we can all see that there has been virtually no change from the Bush administration. Health care has been deferred (to keep the rich doctors happy), more soldiers are in Iraq and Afghanistan than ever before, Obama has increase the US military budget to new highs, etc. So it really doesn't matter which clown gets voted in or what the name of the party is that he belongs to. None of them get into power without being approved by the obscenely rich elite.

I'd sell my vote in a heartbeat anywhere in the world. Politicians and their elections are nothing more than smoke and mirrors to fool people into believing that they actually have some choice and power in their lives.

In America it is a "Republic" which most never realize that a democracy is not what Ameica was founded on although even the politicians don't know what a democracy is. A republic is where the governement stands for smaller governent and less wasting of the peoples taxes. Obama has borrowed and spent more money than all the previous presidents put together since Geaorge washingon in just 18 months and has had the highest unemployment rates since the great depression of 1929. Our grandchildrens children will be working to pay off this federal deficit that the Obama administration has incurred upon the American people, while the bush administration kept taxes to a locked in low so the economy can stay within its limits to help create jobs and not punish the job creators.The people that make over 250k per year. It's no wonder why we threw the democrats out of office after the last elections. The Burock husein Obama croud has practically obliterated our economy. Bush was fighting two wars an keeping the economy going until Obama started his stupid idea of thowing borrowed money at everything to get the economy going. Well, what happened? now, America will try to dig out of the hole he has put us in and cut he has cut defense spending while china and other countys are building up thier defenses or offenses depending on how you look at that. The complete corruption that started when Obama was elected has eclipsed anything any previous administration has ever done. If American can survive one more year of this admin. then we may have a chance to recover but that will take a decade of the fiscal responsibilitys of the conservative party to do. The amount of corruption that has been done in just the last 18 months of Obama has effected all the countrys of the world. Obama can not even run a 7-11 let alone a country. The people that voted this meglamaniac into office sure got change we can belive in, for sure. Not one of the ignorants that voted for this fellow are now pleased with what they got. The last election showed just that. 9.8% unemplyed and with a cost of a trillion borrrowed dollars. I truly believe this man is trying to destroy systematically this Country we call America. As much damage as he can possibly do as fast as he can.

The last 25 years of liberal indoctrination was what happened. As out old enemys used to say America can be destroyed from the inside out and not from abroad. This is happening before our very eyes since 2008 after Bush left Office. if anyone has looked at who Obama has surrounded himself with and done any kind of reading, then one can see just who this guy is.

The democrats of this last 20 years are the most corrupt voting frauds and election thieves and then try to blame the other side for their exact actions. News media?..nothing but left liberal nutz. The left even wants to silence anything radio/tv that brings attention to what is really happening. It's time America wake up and get away from the complete apathy because it is now coming home to roost. Thailand is doing the same thing. All for a buck, anything, anytime. Make a deal or else. Vote? who cares as long as they get paid. Obama? who cares as long as the left get to change america for the worse and become a third world also. Protect out borders?. ha....he can't even do that to try and save America. The flload gates are wide open for illegals to come and get free tax payers money while never paying a penny into the system. on and on....they've found welfare then they found social securioty and now theyhave found labor and industries checks....amazing how many illegals can get huirt on the job and collect a paycheck. The golden goose is about to start laying rotten eggs. Then they will go while Americans try and rebuild what we had. Thanks Obama! America will become Thailand if this does not stop!!!

America will recover and learn from this lesson. I hope these young blind kids that voted this guy in will see what they've done and finally see reality rather than ideology.

These two forms of government: Democracy and Republic, are not only dissimilar but antithetical, reflecting the sharp contrast between (a) The Majority Unlimited, in a Democracy, lacking any legal safeguard of the rights of The Individual and The Minority, and ( The Majority Limited, in a Republic under a written Constitution safeguarding the rights of The Individual and The Minority; as we shall now see.

As we can understand now, Thaksin is a Democrat!!...

[pogal]

According to the poll, the north-east showed the highest proportion of people willing to sell their votes, at 69.6 per cent, followed by Bangkok.

Followed by 90% who would also sell their mother's, their children and their brothers taxi

Only 3% said they would even consider selling their own Blackberry

[alstaxi]

When you are willing to sell your voting power ways for peanuts, do not be astonished, when you are treated as monkey.

My question: why any politician is willing to PAY to get this job ? I have only one explanation: because he can steel back more as his/her investment.

Steel = corruption, tax money OR increase of purchases ( remind: checks at Suvarnabhumi airport or .. 2 different sky trains) OR selling below value ( land where in the future an airport is going to be built ) or negelect other Thai interests.

How come Thai voters can be so stupid.

If you think only Thai voters are stupid you really need to get out more. Same story with politicians paying millions to get a job that pays peanuts, world wide occurence, but you knew that.

[Arkady]

Surprise, surprise!

[Emptyset]

It is worth note that post 85 by emptyset is an op/ed piece. (By someone that history would suggest is worth listening to even if you don't agree or have anecdotal evidence to the contrary.) He has a bias (as we all tend to.) He barely scratches the surface of the kanman system and election canvassers at all and instead claims that what is present is a more sophisticated voter in the rural NE. That is very very arguable

Yes, it is. Let's talk about that. Can you explain how the kamnan system works & detail their interaction with local canvassers? As I said before, rural people I've spoken to tend to downplay it and they've all claimed they can vote the way they want even if they take the money. But I've only visited rural Issan a few times and never during election time so don't have first-hand experience. Also different foreigners that live there have all told me different things, so I'm guessing it really depends on which particular area you're in and you can't really generalize.

Also, have changed their tune from the mid-90s, when they wrote this:

"In recent decades, the village heads have taken on a third role, as political agents. The mix of commercial contacts and administrative power makes them the most efficient choice as canvassers and vote banks. The provincial boss politicians look to them to deliver the village vote."

"But many are still afraid of bringing villagers more firmly into Thailand’s democracy. In part this is an old fear of the rebellious peasant. In part it may just be fear of the unknown. But the current mixture of paternalist structure and democratic forms does not work. It delivers up the boss politicians who have dominated parliament for much of the past decade."

http://www.robinlea.com/changnoi2/vilhead.htm

Obviously they think something has changed over the past decade or so. Incidentally here's another piece on a similar theme: http://www.robinlea.com/changnoi2/kamnan.htm

edit to add ........ Electoral fraud (such as killed TRT) is far more encompassing than just vote buying.

Not sure what you mean by this?

[jdinasia]

It is worth note that post 85 by emptyset is an op/ed piece. (By someone that history would suggest is worth listening to even if you don't agree or have anecdotal evidence to the contrary.) He has a bias (as we all tend to.) He barely scratches the surface of the kanman system and election canvassers at all and instead claims that what is present is a more sophisticated voter in the rural NE. That is very very arguable

Yes, it is. Let's talk about that. Can you explain how the kamnan system works & detail their interaction with local canvassers? As I said before, rural people I've spoken to tend to downplay it and they've all claimed they can vote the way they want even if they take the money. But I've only visited rural Issan a few times and never during election time so don't have first-hand experience. Also different foreigners that live there have all told me different things, so I'm guessing it really depends on which particular area you're in and you can't really generalize.

Also, have changed their tune from the mid-90s, when they wrote this:

"In recent decades, the village heads have taken on a third role, as political agents. The mix of commercial contacts and administrative power makes them the most efficient choice as canvassers and vote banks. The provincial boss politicians look to them to deliver the village vote."

"But many are still afraid of bringing villagers more firmly into Thailand's democracy. In part this is an old fear of the rebellious peasant. In part it may just be fear of the unknown. But the current mixture of paternalist structure and democratic forms does not work. It delivers up the boss politicians who have dominated parliament for much of the past decade."

http://www.robinlea....oi2/vilhead.htm

Obviously they think something has changed over the past decade or so. Incidentally here's another piece on a similar theme: http://www.robinlea....noi2/kamnan.htm

edit to add ........ Electoral fraud (such as killed TRT) is far more encompassing than just vote buying.

Not sure what you mean by this?

Why was TRT disbanded? Electoral fraud and not vote buying.

The local kanman system probably does differ from area to area. In Buriram it is likely weaker than in Pijit just to the extremely powerful political family that controls Buriram. The same could be said about Surat versus Udon.

Money flows out from the political bosses and downstream into the villages. The money dries up totally when a village doesn't vote the way they were paid/bribed/cajoled into voting. Sure an individual can vote his conscience and in most cases get away with it but if the kanman doesn't deliver the votes there are repercussions. New school? No way, new paved road? no way, new water tower? no way! Look at the pay of the village kanman .. I think it is about 4k a month from the government but the real pay comes from the largesse of the client patron system that is still so prevalent in rural Thailand. (Not just isaan)

Think about the reds ---- why do they have so little following outside of their strongholds? Is it that poverty doesn't exist in other rural areas of Thailand? Or ask why they have ANY following in the relatively affluent Chantaburi (fruit .. fruit and more fruit in addition to access to the industrial areas of Rayong just nearby).

The folks that see this as either a class struggle or about the poor are missing the plot.

Personally I would actually applaud a REAL grassroots movement that led to infrastructure development throughout rural Thailand, land reform, and a gradual end to the patronage system in Thailand. Sadly the reds (because of their leadership) have never been about this. Not from the beginning and certainly not now.

[jbrewer]

what a surprise!