Chalerm Opts Out Of Censure Debate

[webfact]

Chalerm opts out of censure debate

By PRAPHAN CHINDALERT-UDOMDEE

THE NATION

Chalerm

Outspoken Pheu Thai MP Chalerm Yoobamrung has vowed not to join the party's censure debate against the government if it's led by leadership rival Mingkwan Sangsuwan.

Mingkwan's style for the debate would be soft while the opposition would propose policies as solutions to problems, Chalerm claimed. He said he got the information from an interview Mingkwan's close aides gave to the media.

"They said this will be a bloodless, reconciliation [censure] debate, and which policies will be proposed.

"It's not my style. A censure debate must include grilling the government, attacking it on corruption or failure. Make the people see," said Chalerm, a party-list MP and chairman of Pheu Thai's MPs.

However, he wished Mingkwan good luck and hoped his rival and party colleague had good information. He said he could contribute information but would not join the debate even if former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra asked him.

Chalerm's comments follow reports that Thaksin, de-facto leader of the party, did not oppose Mingkwan leading the censure debate and being nominated to replace Abhisit Vejjajiva as the prime minister.

The law requires nomination of an alternate prime minister for a censure debate involving the premier.

Chalerm has led the party's censure debate many times. He said he did not feel slighted but would rather opt out because if he joined the debate and there was any mistake, he might be blamed for the mistake.

He said he would pose questions to the government during parliamentary meetings instead.

Surasit Jiamwijak, a Pheu Thai MP close to Mingkwan, denied reports of a dispute between Chalerm and Mingkwan. But he said the pair had not talked about the debate.

"I'm confident Mingkwan can lead the censure debate well. In war, we have to learn to be flexible. Too hard or too soft cannot bring victory. It's up to situation," he said.

Surasit said the party had not decided who to scrutinise. But it had to nominate the name of an alternate premier.

He said the main target for the debate would be Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, then ministries and ministers.

Si Sa Ket MP Thanate Kruarat said Chalerm had told him he didn't have enough information for the debate but was content to provide information to support Mingkwan.

-- The Nation 2011-01-18

[brahmburgers]

Chalerm should learn how to censure his own grown boys, instead of sheltering them from legal repercussions stemming from their thug-like behavior. By age, his boys should be called 'men', but they act like spoiled kids who can't stem their anger and lashing out. Like father, like son.

Edited January 17, 2011 by brahmburgers

[Buchholz]

[quote name='The OP'

]Mingkwan's style for the debate would be soft

"It's not my style" said Chalerm

Without Chalerm's well-known impassioned gesticulations, the censure debate just won't be the same....

Instead, we get Milktoast Mingkwan...

[siampolee]

grilling the government, attacking it on corruption or failure. Make the people see," said Chalerm, a party-list MP and chairman of Pheu Thai's MPs.

That comment from the expert in manipulatingthe true facts, the aiding and abetting of a criminal on the run.

A person who fled the country when justice was catching up on him.

Indeed it is amusing to observe the power struggles for the pork barrel that the Phue Thai party so desperately desire plus of course the Thaksin handouts.

Edited January 18, 2011 by siampolee

[Buchholz]

I love it

Thank you

[SICHONSTEVE]

What a shame - Thaksin's puppets/poodles are in complete disarray. This has, unfortunately for the PTP, come at a time when Abhisit is fulfilling his task of turning the economy and Thailand around. I don't hold out much hope for the Peau Thai party in the elections as there is no doubt that many of those duped and bribed by Shinawatra's false words and Baht billions will soon see the light and realise what an excellent job Abhisit and his team are doing in somewhat difficult conditions. Roll on the election, I say!!!! and get the Democrats re-elected.

[webfact]

Chalerm expected to leave Pheu Thai due to disappointment at not being made leader; expected to set up new party with Chuwit Kamolvisit /TAN_Network

[Ricardo]

Chalerm expected to leave Pheu Thai due to disappointment at not being made leader; expected to set up new party with Chuwit Kamolvisit /TAN_Network

Squeak, squeak, now where is the gang-plank ? !

[animatic]

The other shoe has dropped, with the rats chewing on it.

Leaving a sinking ship while eating a tough meal to digest.

The same treatment in favor of Chalerm 3 years back that made Newin leave,

is now in play vis a vis Chalerm, not enough respect, or trust, so face lost,

and not a big enough piece of pie, so off he goes as opposition to the opposition.

But this fits Thaksin's management style, can't control a man, marginalize him.

And keep ALL the little pawns at each others throats and guessing.

Thaksin can't trust anyone he isn't blood with, and so doesn't let any others off the leash.

Divide and conquer is supposed to be for your enemies not your allies....

I am sure this is filling the Dems with increased hope for a solid outcome.

Edited January 18, 2011 by animatic

[hammered]

Has he changed his mind yet?

[SomTumTiger]

Chalerm expected to leave Pheu Thai due to disappointment at not being made leader; expected to set up new party with Chuwit Kamolvisit /TAN_Network

Bad for Puea Thai, Bad for Thaksin, Bad for Chalerm.

GREAT FOR THAILAND!

[jdinasia]

Chalerm is leaving? I bet some guy in Montenegro (or Dubai, or HK or .....) is asking himself "Don't any of these guys STAY bought?"

[jdinasia]

Where the "crazy eyes" picture of Chuwit with the sledgehammer?

[SomTumTiger]

Where the "crazy eyes" picture of Chuwit with the sledgehammer?

A few favorites

[Buchholz]

Chalerm expected to leave Pheu Thai due to disappointment at not being made leader; expected to set up new party with Chuwit Kamolvisit /TAN_Network

Four in the morning

Crapped out, yawning

Longing my life a--way

I'll never worry

Why should i?

It's all gonna fade

Now I sit by my window

And I watch the cars

I fear I'll do some damage

One fine day

But I would not be convicted

By a jury of my peers

Still crazy after all these years

Oh, still crazy

Still crazy

Still crazy after all these years

- lyrics: Paul Simon

[Emptyset]

Chalerm expected to leave Pheu Thai due to disappointment at not being made leader; expected to set up new party with Chuwit Kamolvisit /TAN_Network

Bad for Puea Thai, Bad for Thaksin, Bad for Chalerm.

How is it bad for PT or Thaksin? I'm sure if it were that bad, they could convince him to stay. It was his strategy that lost them the last by-elections. The guy is good in parliament, but outside it, he's more liability than asset. He's also hated in many places outside his base. Anyway, it's not certain to happen yet.

[SomTumTiger]

Chalerm expected to leave Pheu Thai due to disappointment at not being made leader; expected to set up new party with Chuwit Kamolvisit /TAN_Network

Bad for Puea Thai, Bad for Thaksin, Bad for Chalerm.

How is it bad for PT or Thaksin? I'm sure if it were that bad, they could convince him to stay. It was his strategy that lost them the last by-elections. The guy is good in parliament, but outside it, he's more liability than asset. He's also hated in many places outside his base. Anyway, it's not certain to happen yet.

You don't honestly think that he will leave by himself? All these MP's "Control" a number of other MPs. If Charlerm leaves he will take 20+ MPs with him. How is that not bad for Thaksin and PTP?

[Emptyset]

You don't honestly think that he will leave by himself? All these MP's "Control" a number of other MPs. If Charlerm leaves he will take 20+ MPs with him. How is that not bad for Thaksin and PTP?

Don't know exactly how many Chalerm has but fairly certain it's not even as many as twenty. And as he could potentially hinder more than help them in the election, doubt it'll make the difference you think it will.

[Buchholz]

Chalerm expected to leave Pheu Thai due to disappointment at not being made leader; expected to set up new party with Chuwit Kamolvisit /TAN_Network

Bad for Puea Thai, Bad for Thaksin, Bad for Chalerm.

The coalition thinks it's good...

Government Welcomes Censure Debate

A Democrat deputy prime minister affirms the government is always ready to clarify issues raised by the Opposition, but declines comment on an outspoken Pheu Thai MP's opting out of the planned no-confidence debate.

Suthep declined to comment on Pheu Thai Party chief MP Chalerm Yoobumroong's skipping of the upcoming censure debate, which is expected to be led by another senior party member Mingkwan Saengsuwan, saying the decision is an internal affair of the party.

The deputy premier said the importance of a censure debate lies not with the individuals taking to the House floor, but with information on the flaws in public administration.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-18

[jdinasia]

You don't honestly think that he will leave by himself? All these MP's "Control" a number of other MPs. If Charlerm leaves he will take 20+ MPs with him. How is that not bad for Thaksin and PTP?

Don't know exactly how many Chalerm has but fairly certain it's not even as many as twenty. And as he could potentially hinder more than help them in the election, doubt it'll make the difference you think it will.

The recent by-elections where Newin's BJT folks didn't get punished for not joining PTP doesn't give your current argument strong support. They did quite well. Chalerm's local folks will likely do just as well. But remember ---- even 10 lost would be an almost crippling blow to PTP. They lost Newin's faction, the "cobra 6" and with more defections coming it looks even worse for them

[Emptyset]

The recent by-elections where Newin's BJT folks didn't get punished for not joining PTP doesn't give your current argument strong support. They did quite well. Chalerm's local folks will likely do just as well. But remember ---- even 10 lost would be an almost crippling blow to PTP. They lost Newin's faction, the "cobra 6" and with more defections coming it looks even worse for them

I agree ten would be a loss, but doubtful that it'd be crippling. How do you know PT wouldn't be able to beat him (or his cronies) on home turf, anyway? Who's he going to run as candidates? His sons? But it's not definite that he'll leave yet, or if he'll set up his own party. Let's see. He might even join PJT?

I actually based my comments on the fact that a Thai political analyst said that one of the reasons PJT won in Khorat is that Khorat people hate Chalerm more than Newin. So Chalerm's appearances there (apparently he'd spent a lot of time there) might've actually cost them votes. Also, Chalerm's strategy failed and he's known as a poor electoral strategist generally. So letting him run the election (as was supposedly going to happen before) would probably be a bad idea. Anyway, by-elections will always be tilted in favour of the incumbent - because the incumbent can deliver much more money to the district - as I said before. Thaksin apparently didn't give them much money for them either (and this is against Newin...), and this is while PT is a leaderless mess. So I suspect they might well do better against PJT in the general election.

[whybother]

<snip>

Anyway, by-elections will always be tilted in favour of the incumbent - because the incumbent can deliver much more money to the district - as I said before. Thaksin apparently didn't give them much money for them either (and this is against Newin...), and this is while PT is a leaderless mess. So I suspect they might well do better against PJT in the general election.

In Australia, by-elections usually go against the incumbent in the way of a protest vote.

[thaihome]

<snip>

Anyway, by-elections will always be tilted in favour of the incumbent - because the incumbent can deliver much more money to the district - as I said before. Thaksin apparently didn't give them much money for them either (and this is against Newin...), and this is while PT is a leaderless mess. So I suspect they might well do better against PJT in the general election.

In Australia, by-elections usually go against the incumbent in the way of a protest vote.

This again is the UDD apologist making excuses. Those ex-PTP MP’s reelected in the recent by-election were some of the key votes when Abhisit was elected PM.

The UDD apologist have to minimize what that by-election said because it completely undermines their case that Abhisit and the current coalition have no mandate from the voters.

This was the perfect chance for unhappy voters to throw out the traitors but in every case, they voted them back in.

TH

[jdinasia]

By elections in Thailand usually favor the incumbent is right. The issue was .. were the seats held by PTP (the defectors having stolen them the way that people on TVF suggested when clamoring for a new election) or by the actual person involved. The results showed no backlash against the 'defectors' and that the seats were indeed held by the people .....

The same should hold true for Chalerm's faction if he pulls it and leaves PTP.

[Emptyset]

Emptyset --- I would expect Chalerm's faction to do quite well in their support base area and for him not to pull any MP's that aren't in his area.

There's an article about it now in the other paper. He expects to win about five seats with his new party if he leaves PT.

[Emptyset]

By elections in Thailand usually favor the incumbent is right. The issue was .. were the seats held by PTP (the defectors having stolen them the way that people on TVF suggested when clamoring for a new election) or by the actual person involved. The results showed no backlash against the 'defectors' and that the seats were indeed held by the people .....

The same should hold true for Chalerm's faction if he pulls it and leaves PTP.

Federico Ferrara touches on that here: "2. The results in Korat, Surin, and Ayutthaya show Peua Thai’s continuing failure to piece back together Thaksin’s old electoral coalition, losing to former allies of TRT/PPP in places where these smaller parties have strong canvassing networks and/or popular candidates. I know from experience/direct observation that in these provinces many voters do not consider sympathizing with the Red Shirts on national-level issues to be incompatible with voting for BJT/CTP based on what these parties’ candidates are able to do for their districts. As in previous by-elections, the results in Korat/Surin/Ayutthaya once again highlight Peua Thai’s inability to “nationalize” these races by making CTP/BJT candidates pay a significant price for their affiliation with Abhisit’s government. If this trend were to hold in a general election, Peua Thai will not meaningfully improve on the seat share it currently controls."

http://asiancorrespondent.com/43599/federico-on-the-thai-by-election-results/

[jdinasia]

The question is now twofold --- will the same results hold for Chalerm? I suggest that they will IF he leaves the PTP group. The second question is, does the personal anecdotal opinion of the author that the people in those constituencies hold to the redshirt leadership's ideals or not. That one is speculation imho. Parts of Ayutthaya are VERY pro-red (aligned with the violent factions --) parts are not, is that due to direction from the top or the bottom? I have no idea.

[thaihome]

...Federico Ferrara touches on that here: "2. ..I know from experience/direct observation that in these provinces many voters do not consider sympathizing with the Red Shirts on national-level issues to be incompatible with voting for BJT/CTP based on what these parties’ candidates are able to do for their districts. .

The statement makes no sense. How can you sympathizing with the “Red Shirts on national-level issues” i.e. undemocratic military appointed government, immediate elections, etc, when the MP you voted for is one of the main reasons the government is in power.

Again, the UDD supporters, such as Ferrara, are in full retreat trying to both justify the by-election results (which lay bare all the claims of an undemocratic goverment appointed by the military) and lay the foundation for the claim for the upcoming election will not representative of Thai voters.

TH

[Emptyset]

This again is the UDD apologist making excuses. Those ex-PTP MP's reelected in the recent by-election were some of the key votes when Abhisit was elected PM.

The UDD apologist have to minimize what that by-election said because it completely undermines their case that Abhisit and the current coalition have no mandate from the voters.

This was the perfect chance for unhappy voters to throw out the traitors but in every case, they voted them back in.

TH

It's not like he has no mandate. More like many feel the way he came to power improper. He could've had an election sooner and formed the same coalition and proven definitively that the red shirts were wrong. But he didn't. Anyway, that's all water under the bridge now. New election is coming sooner enough.

It's common knowledge that by-elections favour the incumbent. As a rational voter, given the way the goods are shared out, you'd want to vote for a coalition partner, wouldn't you? One Thai political analyst who's very good on upcountry politics commented that those in Surin Const. don't like Newin but chose Supharak because he's from Amphoe Prasat and the coalition. Chalerm played a part in losing for them in Khorat, where it's said he isn't liked much. Next election will be Thaksin's last throw of the dice, pretty much, I'd expect him to go all out. Whereas these by-elections, well, not really that important in the scheme of things given there's general elections coming up in the not too distant future. In fact it'd almost be better not to try too hard, so the opposition isn't too worried about the general election... which is almost what I think Thaksin did, given he apparently didn't provide much money.

However, last part is pure speculation, for sure. Can you tell me what you specifically disagree with, instead of just dismissing it as propaganda from a UDD apologist?

Edited January 18, 2011 by Emptyset

[Emptyset]

The statement makes no sense. How can you sympathizing with the "Red Shirts on national-level issues" i.e. undemocratic military appointed government, immediate elections, etc, when the MP you voted for is one of the main reasons the government is in power.

Again, the UDD supporters, such as Ferrara, are in full retreat trying to both justify the by-election results (which lay bare all the claims of an undemocratic goverment appointed by the military) and lay the foundation for the claim for the upcoming election will not representative of Thai voters.

TH

I couldn't speculate myself, not knowing even a single person from those parts, but Ferrara is not the only one who's said that. Someone who was actually carrying out research in Buri Ram actually discussed this in the New Mandala comments a while back: http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2010/03/15/red-soi-red-city-a-brief-commentary-from-the-streets/#comment-683653

"While Buriram may be a special case, the fact that most of the people who reside in the districts where there are MPs belonging to the Friends of Newin Group still love Thaksin (to the point of participating in the protests) but will *not* vote for his party shows that there is a complete break between the Red Shirt movement and electoral or regional politics. Many Northeasterners are indifferent about Thaksin and many Southerners are ardent Red Shirts. While hardcore members say that they will not support traitors like Newin and his ilk, there is in general no contradiction between supporting the local patron and fighting for the so-called populist programs, which brings us to the next topic of ideology and interests."