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The Thin Veneer Of Civilization

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"Those trapped in the city faced an increasingly lawless environment, as law enforcement agencies found themselves overwhelmed with widespread looting. Looters swarmed the Wal-mart on Tchoupitoulas Street, often bypassing the food and drink section to steal wide-screen TVs, jewelry, bicycles and computers. Watching the sordid display and shaking his head in disgust, one firefighter said of the scene: “It’s a f---- hurricane, what are you do with a basketball goal?” Police regained control at about 3 p.m., after clearing the store with armed patrol. One shotgun-toting Third District detective described the looting as “ferocious.”

“And it’s going to get worse as the days progress,” he said.

In Uptown, one the few areas that remained dry, a bearded man patrolled Oak Street near the boarded-up Maple Leaf Bar, a sawed-off shotgun slung over his shoulder. The owners of a hardware store sat in folding chairs, pistols at the ready.

Uptown resident Keith Williams started his own security patrol, driving around in his Ford pickup with his newly purchased handgun. Earlier in the day, Williams said he had seen the body of a gunshot victim near the corner of Leonidas and Hickory streets."

2.7 million out of power & drinking water... :o

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I could forgive people who in desperation stole food and water, but these sick sub-humans who use the disaster to get a new TV should be kept in a zoo for ten years or so with a sign "While people were risking their lives to save others, these animals were stealing from you" Seeing the big smiles on their faces as they walked past the TV cameras makes you want to pick up a rock. :o

I got a note from a friend of mine who was writing about the aftermath in Gulfport Ms. She had been in contact with a paramedic who said that they're finding entire families drowned inside their homes, and that the official toll is going to get much worse. :D

cv

The lights go off....for 5 minutes..... and we all revert into beasts.

Positively atavistic !

In Indonesia, when we had the riots, many looters in Shopping Malls. The Security Guards simply locked them all in and torched the place. Hundreds killed (Lippo Karawaci)

  • Author

The scale of the disaster in Mississippi and Louisiana is unimaginable...

Looters3-thumb.jpg

Boats25-thumb.jpg

The lights go off....for 5 minutes..... and we all revert into beasts.

Positively atavistic !

In Indonesia, when we had the riots, many looters in Shopping Malls. The Security Guards simply locked them all in and torched the place. Hundreds killed (Lippo Karawaci)

Wouldn't that be the case if president Bush declared marshal law in the area (I don't' mean torching - but looters would be shot on sight)?

  • Author
The lights go off....for 5 minutes..... and we all revert into beasts.

Positively atavistic !

In Indonesia, when we had the riots, many looters in Shopping Malls. The Security Guards simply locked them all in and torched the place. Hundreds killed (Lippo Karawaci)

Wouldn't that be the case if president Bush declared marshal law in the area (I don't' mean torching - but looters would be shot on sight)?

Marshal Law has already been declared in Mississippi & the New Orleans area. One Mayor - Gulfport, MS now has over 1000 inmates in his jail for looting and as more arrive, he's piling them on top. Shooting them would not be a viable option from what I've gathered.

The lights go off....for 5 minutes..... and we all revert into beasts.

Positively atavistic !

In Indonesia, when we had the riots, many looters in Shopping Malls. The Security Guards simply locked them all in and torched the place. Hundreds killed (Lippo Karawaci)

Wouldn't that be the case if president Bush declared marshal law in the area (I don't' mean torching - but looters would be shot on sight)?

Marshal Law has already been declared in Mississippi & the New Orleans area. One Mayor - Gulfport, MS now has over 1000 inmates in his jail for looting and as more arrive, he's piling them on top. Shooting them would not be a viable option from what I've gathered.

But it would be legal?

I ask because I don't know?

Caption of 'unimaginable disaster' does not fit the photo of a few grounded motor yachts at a millionaire's marina.

The tsunami on 26/12 is a better fit.

Boon Me, I wish you would be as "compassionate" for the Iraqis :o

Not to waste your party here but did you read this ? this happened today

Hundreds dead in Baghdad stampede

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4199618.stm

More than 600 people have been killed in a stampede of Shia pilgrims in northern Baghdad, Iraqi officials say.

The incident happened on a bridge over the Tigris River as about one million Shias marched to a shrine for an annual religious festival.

Witnesses said panic spread because of rumours that suicide bombers were in the crowd. Many victims were crushed to death or fell in the river and drowned.

Health officials said the death toll could go as high as 1,000.

Earlier, mortar rounds had been fired into the crowd, killing 16 people.

SHIA HOLY FESTIVAL

Annual commemoration of the death of Musa al-Kadhim, 7th Imam

He was successor to Prophet Muhammad, by Shia tradition

Died in Baghdad in 799 and buried at Kadhimiya mosque

In pictures: Iraq stampede

About 36 others were injured when four mortar rounds landed close to the Kadhimiya mosque.

So far no group has said it carried out the attack.

Iraqi Interior Minister Bayan Jabor blamed a "terrorist" for spreading the rumour.

  • Author
Caption of 'unimaginable disaster' does not fit the photo of a few grounded motor yachts at a millionaire's marina.

The tsunami on 26/12 is a better fit.

Those were the only two shots I grabbed at the time - you want to see the 'unimaginable disaster' - turn on your TV... :o

TM~

Don't know myself - sorta depends on the situation I believe. If they're boosting food - no. But ripping off a jewlery store - cap the bastard(s).

Silly what good is electronics when you are submerged in water... sometimes I really worry for the world. :o

Looting was also rife in Patong just after last year's tsunami. Locals were stepping over bodies to steal gold jewellery and other goods from smashed and flooded stores. Eye witnesses also reported seeing the odd constable joining in... :o

Wouldn't that be the case if president Bush declared marshal law in the area

Marshal Law has already been declared in Mississippi & the New Orleans area.

Don't know about that "Marshall Law" bit, but they did institute martial law, which among other things, allows National Guard troops to be deployed to restore/maintain some sense of civil order.

  • Author

Wouldn't that be the case if president Bush declared marshal law in the area

Marshal Law has already been declared in Mississippi & the New Orleans area.

Don't know about that "Marshall Law" bit, but they did institute martial law, which among other things, allows National Guard troops to be deployed to restore/maintain some sense of civil order.

Got me there, Spee! :D

'Marshall' must have come unconciously from law enforcement Marshalls. :o

Wouldn't that be the case if president Bush declared marshal law in the area

Marshal Law has already been declared in Mississippi & the New Orleans area.

Don't know about that "Marshall Law" bit, but they did institute martial law, which among other things, allows National Guard troops to be deployed to restore/maintain some sense of civil order.

Got me there, Spee! :D

'Marshall' must have come unconciously from law enforcement Marshalls. :D

My excuse is Marshal Plan and US aid to countries savaged by war. :o

The scale of the disaster in Mississippi and Louisiana is unimaginable...

Looters3-thumb.jpg

Boats25-thumb.jpg

Would the millionaire who parked his yacht in my back yard kindly remove and replace it in the marina, where it belongs.

Thank you.

:o:D

Boon Me, I wish you would be as "compassionate" for the Iraqis  :o

Not to waste your party here but did you read this ? this happened today

Hundreds dead in Baghdad stampede

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4199618.stm

More than 600 people have been killed in a stampede of Shia pilgrims in northern Baghdad, Iraqi officials say.

The incident happened on a bridge over the Tigris River as about one million Shias marched to a shrine for an annual religious festival.

Witnesses said panic spread because of rumours that suicide bombers were in the crowd. Many victims were crushed to death or fell in the river and drowned.

Health officials said the death toll could go as high as 1,000.

Earlier, mortar rounds had been fired into the crowd, killing 16 people.

SHIA HOLY FESTIVAL

Annual commemoration of the death of Musa al-Kadhim, 7th Imam

He was successor to Prophet Muhammad, by Shia tradition

Died in Baghdad in 799 and buried at Kadhimiya mosque

In pictures: Iraq stampede

About 36 others were injured when four mortar rounds landed close to the Kadhimiya mosque.

So far no group has said it carried out the attack.

Iraqi Interior Minister Bayan Jabor blamed a "terrorist" for spreading the rumour.

An answer from an Israeli friend:

At this point it doesn't matter whose fault it is. The problem is not the "fault" of the Americans, Bush, "Neocons" (a euphemism for Jews) or "Zionists"

(another euphemism for Jews). Racists and Saddamites have been busy distorting the facts, but all they accomplished was to delegitimize criticism of the war, and immunize people to bad news from Iraq. Cindy Sheehan, whose son was killed in Iraq, has made herserlf into the symbolic critique of the Iraq war. She may be the wrong war mom. Sheehan has been accused of sending some vicious and silly letters claiming that "My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel." She denies sending the letters, but Cindy Sheehan probably won't deny

writing:

"Casey was killed in the Global War Of Terrorism waged on the world and its own citizens by the biggest terrorist outfit in the world: George and his destructive Neo-con cabal."

Cindy Sheehan, I am sorry for your loss. We are all sorry for your loss. The Israeli people gained very little, or perhaps lost something, by the elimination of Saddam Hussein, who was a convenient arch-villain. Cindy Sheehan, not all Jews are Zionists, and not all Zionists are "neo-cons" or agents of the Israeli government. Terrorism is a real threat. It wasn't "George and his destructive Neo-con cabal" who destroyed the World Trade Center. It wasn't the "Neo-con cabal" but Al-Qaeda themselves, who explained even before the war in Iraq, who they intend to take over the world and rule it through an Islamic Caliphate. The US government and the Israeli government did not invent Saddam Hussein, or Zarqawi or any of the other bad guys in Iraq. The world is a complicated place.

The fiasco that led to World War II proved that when the great powers were indifferent to threats to democracy and freedom in other countries, those threats eventually landed on their own doorsteps. A world war was caused by moral bankruptcy. Saddam Hussein was a cruel dictator. He was responsible for over a million deaths in the Iran-Iraq war, and perhaps another 300,000 dead in his operation al-anfal which involved ethnic cleansing of Shi'a and Kurdish minorities. Sh'ia were not allowed to practise their religion in Saddam's Iraq. Saddam had invaded Kuwait and set himself up as a model bad guy to be imitated by others - the center of agitation against the US and democracy.

Your son joined the army to fight for freedom and to defend the United States.

Saddam was a vital threat to the United States, and as long as he remained in power the US could have little respect in the Middle East. Cindy Sheehan, your son Casey died in a good cause, implemented by incompetent leaders. Don't cheapen his awesome sacrifice with racist filth.

Can you be sure that the stories about WMD that were never found were a deliberate lie, and not the product of incompetence and defective intelligence? After all, the US demonstrated time and again that it is utterless clueless in Iraq. It bombed several places where Saddam Hussein wasn't. To this day, US intelligence often has no idea who is responsible for the bombs going off every other day in Iraqi cities. They might as well be a force of nature, like hurricane Katrina.

However, the criticism of the Iraq war is not propaganda at all. Generals and talking heads cheerfully report about the great progress being made, and insist that all the negative reports are due to "the media," but it just isn't so. Suicide bombings are a regular occurrence in Iraq, money for reconstruction vanishes in mysterious ways. The Iraqi government is clueless about providing basic safety to its citizens. The vaunted "Iraqi army" is turning into a bad joke, a shaggy dog story about an army that will be ready next week or next year or maybe never. The constitution that was approved by the Shi'a and Kurdi factions is probably going to be vetoed by the Sunnis in the upcoming referendum. Who can tell what anarchy will follow?

We know who some of the enemies are, and we should all appreciate the gravity of the threat. Mr Zarqawi and his friends tell us they are out to conquer the world, and we had better believe them. The Saddamites and others who joined the unholy "insurrection" coalition have evil plans for Iraq. However, it won't do either to ignore the facts, wave a big American flag and label all critics of the Iraq war traitors and defeatists.

President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld insist that winning the Iraq war is as vital as winning World War II. That may well be true, and that is why the self-evident fact that the US is not winning, and has no plan for winning, should be alarming to anyone and everyone who wants democracy, peace, prosperity and stability for Iraq and the Middle East. The alternative is very unappetizing.

There is at least one vital difference between the Iraq war and World War II.

The people who planned the Iraq war, including President Bush, didn't understand this difference, and apparently they still don't. World War II was over when the Axis powers surrendered. The Iraq war was only just beginning when the Iraqi government surrendered. The US was not prepared or equipped to fight a guerilla war against a coalition of Saddamites, Al-Qaeda operatives and Shi'a extremists. Who must surrender in Iraq? Will they ever surrender, or will they just melt away into another country? How can the US make sure that doesn't happen? We know when V-E and V-J days occurred, but how will we every know when V-I day arrives, if it ever does?

The US was not prepared for this war. It didn't have the intelligence apparatus. It didn't have the local knowledge. It didn't have firm allies of integrity in Iraq. What is much worse, is that the US government and military are intent on ignoring the problem, which means they can't learn from their mistakes. In Iraq, the US is on the brink of disaster, and President Bush keeps insisting that they march ever forward, chanting "Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die."

If indeed the Iraq war is as important as Mr. Bush and Mr. Rumsfeld say it is, someone better wake up and figure out how to win it, and how to know when the US won it.

Can you be sure that the stories about WMD that were never found were a deliberate lie, and not the product of incompetence and defective intelligence?

Incorrect. It was the product of very fine Intelligence.

Iranian Intelligence.

..... planting false leads of Iraqi weapons, capabilities and intention, with people like Ahmed Chalabi, who unwittingly marketed it.

Iran won the Iran/Iraq War. 15 years after it finished.

I wouldn't even be surprised in South Iran eventually merged into a Greater Shi-ite/ Iranian Empire.

And those Shit-ites will have the Bomb.

  • Author

Back on Topic:

90% of the roads from New Orleans east to Pennsicola, Fla resemble the below - most bridges gone...

083005_katrina11.jpg

You've inspired me to go look at the usatoday website photos.

I had no idea it was as bad as this. Its not especially featured in the media here.

Was it the storm or the the breaking of the levees that was the bigger problem.

  • Author
You've inspired me to go look at the usatoday website photos.

I had no idea it was as bad as this. Its not especially featured in the media here.

Was it the storm or the the breaking of the levees that was the bigger problem.

Both.

The storm ripped up Mississippi and Alabama then spawned tornados which tore up Georgia, Tennessee etc. But in New Orleans, it's the water...breached levees have flooded the entire city making it uninhabital perhaps for months.

Watch... this is going to be (or already is) bigger than 9/11... :o

This site has pretty up-to-the-minute info.

  • Author

Hurricane Spin From The Daily Kos

Here's some more perspective on the liberal view of hurricane Katrina.

You may be surprised that there's "hurricane spin," but that seems like an apt description of "Put the N*ggers in the Superdome: Part II" by someone called "Flip Floss."

This post is not up on some little blog with 8 readers either. It's at the Daily Kos, the most popular liberal blog on the planet.

Here are some excerpts from "Put the N*ggers in the Superdome: Part II:"

"What I am going to say now is that there are thousands who are dying and dead. They will be scandal and rioting and rightly so in my opinion as the "Negroes" of New Orleans and tourists were left to drown. And that's what happened to a lot of people but the news media and the public is slow to announce and realize the obvious.

I am not going to apologize for being perceptive and reading between the lines. If you can't see that the poor people were herded into the unsafe Superdome because no one cares about them then that is not a problem I can address.

...Yes it is Bush's fault. He's on vacation again. And he put National Guard troops who could have saved American lives in Iraq so they could run around senselessly and be blown up. That war is over and has been over.

...I am very angry at what's happening in New Orleans. This event, I believe is only beginning to unfold not just in terms of the deaths but also of the social destruction of the Black population that is now being blamed for looting. I'd loot too! It's quite insane there is no food, water, electricity or housing. I would take whatever is available to survive and make myself comfortable and not worry about paying for it."

There you go, folks. Is it any wonder that the Daily Kos draws hundreds of thousands of liberals every day with that sort of sparkling analysis on display. :o

I agree- the disorganization seems incredible - I was aware last week it was on its way. Didn't people get ready? Where was the National Guard to protect the people and city, why didn't they reinforce the levees with a few sand bags?

Unlike our tsunami here which was unpredictable.

  • Author
I agree- the disorganization seems incredible - I was aware last week it was on its way. Didn't people get ready? Where was the National Guard to protect the people and city, why didn't they reinforce the levees with a few sand bags?

Unlike our tsunami here which was unpredictable.

A lot of them had not taken the warning seriously because New Orleans has escaped crippling hurricanes for the past 40 years. The National Guard was out the first night but on such a massive scale as this disaster, they can only do so much.

BTW - The Louisiana National Guard is not all over in Iraq either... :o

Believe it's 67% manned at home right now.

The levees were weakeed by the >145 mph winds and the rest is history... :D

why didn't they reinforce the levees with a few sand bags?

This would actually be funny ..... if this weren't such a bloody awful disaster.

If you have every been in or around these levees, you would know they are made from millions of tons of earth and are anywhere from a few to 10 or so stories tall.

Re-inforcing with a few sand bags would have had the same effect as throwing a few gallons of water on the sun to try and cool it off.

Re-inforcing with a few sand bags would have had the same effect as throwing a few gallons of water on the sun to try and cool it off

Oh, okay....well,......... best do absolutely nothing whatsoever. (I was speaking figuratively about the sandbags)

In fact better still. Don't get civil engineers to check the rest of the levees so that it can all happen again next year.

Doesn't surprise me that the USA gets struck by predictable cataclysms, whether man-made/terrorist or from Mother Nature.

When I worked in a Wall Street company. Lots of American blowhards going around saying.

"LEMME JUST TELL YA SUMTHIN'"

and

'I JUST WANNA SAY THIS"

None of them ever did any work. Just Yak Yak Yak. Then it would all go wrong and we'd look at them and they'd say.

"ARE YOU SAYIN' I DON'T TAKE MY RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY"

and then they'd go off and continue to do nothing and talk loudly about how swell they were.

  • Author
Re-inforcing with a few sand bags would have had the same effect as throwing a few gallons of water on the sun to try and cool it off

Oh, okay....well,......... best do absolutely nothing whatsoever. (I was speaking figuratively about the sandbags)

In fact better still. Don't get civil engineers to check the rest of the levees so that it can all happen again next year.

Doesn't surprise me that the USA gets struck by predictable cataclysms, whether man-made/terrorist or from Mother Nature.

When I worked in a Wall Street company. Lots of American blowhards going around saying.

"LEMME JUST TELL YA SUMTHIN'"

and

'I JUST WANNA SAY THIS"

None of them ever did any work. Just Yak Yak Yak. Then it would all go wrong and we'd look at them and they'd say.

"ARE YOU SAYIN' I DON'T TAKE MY RESPONSIBILITIES SERIOUSLY"

and then they'd go off and continue to do nothing and talk loudly about how swell they were.

:o I'd call the above borderline Yank-Bashing! :D

Mayor: Katrina May Have Killed Thousands

Aug 31 3:51 PM US/Eastern

By BRETT MARTEL

Associated Press Writer

NEW ORLEANS

Hurricane Katrina probably killed thousands of people in New Orleans, the mayor said Wednesday _ an estimate that, if accurate, would make the storm the nation's deadliest natural disaster since at least the 1906 San Francisco earthquake.

More

I agree- the disorganization seems incredible - I was aware last week it was on its way. Didn't people get ready? Where was the National Guard to protect the people and city, why didn't they reinforce the levees with a few sand bags?

Unlike our tsunami here which was unpredictable.

I'm waiting for George W Bush to announce his "War on Hurricanes". These hurricanes just cannot go on threatening the lives of innocent free Americans..

totster :o

Do we have to turn even a natural disaster into a poor taste political debate? Thousands are suffering so someone can score points on a web debate? Have some ###### decency. :o

Regardless of who is president, or what else is happening, this still would have happened. The people dying are conservatives, liberals, and all other stripes. Can we keep the tired old left vs right/ bush vs others out of it? Or do we have enough class to accomplish that?

cv

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