Troops Called To Thai Factory Over 'Tense' Stand-Off With Burmese Workers

[jillwilliams999]

Why would any Thai factory owner want to hire Burmese, if they are not at least twice as cheap? Wouldn't they better hire Thais, to avoid having to pay-off police? These Burmese knew and are happy to take up low pay job because they knew they are illegal, and also cause the factory owner much hassle.

Edited January 25, 2011 by jillwilliams999

[SteeleJoe]

Why would any Thai factory owner want to hire Burmese, if they are not at least twice as cheap? Wouldn't they better hire Thais, to avoid having to pay-off police? These Burmese knew and are happy to take up low pay job because they knew they are illegal, and also cause the factory owner much hassle.

No one, not even the Burmese if I recall correctly, is complaining about low pay per se. By the way, I notice you've got no rebuttal to all the points I and others have made. Just in case you missed it:

Posted Today, 09:40

jillwilliams999, on 2011-01-25 09:10:15, said:]

Just imagine this story: A Burmese walk into a factory to seek a job. The factory is is having a hard time and could not afford more workers. The Burmese beg for a job. Out of pity, and to save the poor soul from sleeping in the park, the owner say "7 days per week, 12-14 hour days, salary is 4000 baht, that's half of what Thai gets for half of the hours". The Burmese could not believe his luck, surprise and filled with joy, as this mean 10 times better pay than back home. He took the job without hesitation, and work very hard as a gratitude to the factory owner. . . As a comparison, Thai workers are willing and happy to be paid half, and work twice as much, compared to the Swedish berry pickers.

Yes, I can imagine such a story. No doubt it has happened many a time. Now imagine this: the Burmese worker after working very hard in gratitude -- despite getting only half what a Thai makes (even one who doesn't work hard) for half the time -- proceeds to be constantly deducted from his already unfair pay, beaten after requesting explanation, is not allowed any overtime pay, has insufficient tolilets, has his documents confiscated (as a result is denied medical care) is not compensated for accidents. Why is that OK? Would Swedish employers do that to Thais? Should they be allowed to?

Just because one is in a position to exploit others ruthlessly -- with their initial acquiescence (borne out of desperation) -- doesn't mean its ethical or legal to do so. Or that there is no limit to how can further mistreat them even beyond what they agreed to. If the claims in the article are accurate, I can't imagine how any right-thinking person can defend the actions of the Thai employer or somehow shift the onus on the Burmese workers to fix it by returning to perhaps an equally untenable situation or worse.

I can only assume that no matter how you are treated in this country, its OK with you or else you will quietly just go back to wherever you are from (which no doubt is probably a lot more appealing than Burma and in which you probably have far more choices and personal freedoms). The next time you agree to something with a Thai and they screw you beyond what you anticipated, just remember to be grateful to them!

EDIT TO ADD:

Oops! Forgot in your scenario the Thai boss hired the Burmese out of pity and compassion,then proceeded to screw them over? [/color]

Edited January 25, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[jillwilliams999]

Does this happen to Mexican worker with no Green card in Texas factory? I just wonder.

[chuang]

They are BURMESE so a threat to national security.. Don't you know anything.. They did it before so they will do it again....invade that is... remember Ayythuya,,,,,,

A more recent example might be when Burmese invaded a hospital in Ratchaburi and held the patients hostage in 2000.

God's Army...

[Lancelot]

Setting aside the abuse contoversy for a moment, the large numbers of Burmese and Cambodian foreign workers in Thailand is a testament to the rapidly improving economy here. Thais at the bottom of the work force simply are not willing to do the back breaking/low paid work that immigrants will accept. Its all relative and the poor in Thailand would be considered to b doing OK in Burma. (Even poor Thais usually have a cell phone, motorbike and plenty to eat)

In the seafood restaurants (good and cheap!) at Bang Saray, south of Jomtien, I noticed that many of the service staff could not speak Thai very well. A (Thai) friend confirmed that they were Burmese

[thelinguist]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

Either you are some sad old sex pest sat in a condo in Pattaya with nothing to do, so you have decided to open up a Thaivisa account in an aliases name with the intention of making as many controversial posts as possible. Or, you really are just another 'well educated' yet, extremely back wards and bigoted local, who probably owns a company of sorts and treats workers in exactly the same way.

Either way..... You're a complete Muppet and I hope you get phucked and burnt on your way home from where ever you may be returning from this evening.

Good day!

[slapout]

Does this happen to Mexican worker with no Green card in Texas factory? I just wonder.

Wonder no more. The great state of Texas has no need for the federal troops to quell a minor labor/pay dispute. The local foreman and/or the Texas Rangers can put things in order posthaste.

[crazygreg44]

years ago I visited a jewelry factory in a Bangkok suburb. The girls who sat at small tables , putting together jewelry bits and assorting items, were guarded by a female watchdog sporting a wooden cane. Upon asking , I was told that sometimes when they are slow, or fall halfway asleep, they will receive a beating.

It seems to be normal in Thailand in some factories. Does not surprise me any more. When you know how hard some people have to work just to make a few Baht for survival, then you don t wonder the ones that have a "better" job in a factory will feel well off, despite the structurally lacking "basic rights" !

[Kilgore Trout]

Spot on, and this whole thing with the Thai laborers being "exploited" in Florida; with scenarios like this I feel no compassion for those Thai workers. Thailand; get your own house in order before you go complaining about how Thais are treated in the US; remember (as many here have said) if you don't like it, go home! Or don't come to the states in the first place, we have enough immigrants

Spot on? Doesn't seem like we agree...

You think Thai workers (or others) aren't ever exploited in the US? It happens in Florida and lots of other states. Just as it happens in other developed countries.

So if we have people doing the same thing in our country (where we're suppsoed to be far better ad beyond that and I'd like to believe we are at least beyond toleration of it), we shouldn't complain about the Thais doing it in theirs? So I guess whatever social ills and injustices we have, we should remain silent about those that exist here? I'll just bet you've never complained about anything in Thailand except for things that NEVER happen in the US. And up to now, you like everything about Thailand because otherwise you'd go home, right? You're no hypocrite.

PS: Everything America is (supposed to be) about contradicts your anti-immigrant chauvinism. Americans have traditionally been rightly proud of the fact that we are a nation of immigrants (I'm not suggesting for a second that means unlimited immigration or unfettered rights for those who get there) that -- at least according to legend and not wihtout basis in fact -- welcomes newcomers with more tolerance than where they came from. You're a native American, are you?

Most of what I said was meant to be tongue in cheek with a grain of truth, didn't mean to come off completely serious. True exploitation occurs everywhere in the world, not arguing that.

What I don't understand is your comment about how we are supposed to be better than them; your quote; "where we're suppsoed to be far better ad beyond that and I'd like to believe we are at least beyond toleration of it" is riddled with such bad grammar and spelling I'm not sure what you mean.

If you mean what I think; who is being chauvinistic?

[harleyclarkey]

Just imagine this story: A Burmese walk into a factory to seek a job. The factory is is having a hard time and could not afford more workers. The Burmese beg for a job. Out of pity, and to save the poor soul from sleeping in the park, the owner say "7 days per week, 12-14 hour days, salary is 4000 baht, that's half of what Thai gets for half of the hours". The Burmese could not believe his luck, surprise and filled with joy, as this mean 10 times better pay than back home. He took the job without hesitation, and work very hard as a gratitude to the factory owner. . . As a comparison, Thai workers are willing and happy to be paid half, and work twice as much, compared to the Swedish berry pickers.

Yep....I can just picture the scene...something like out of "The Sound of Music"?? Here comes an innocent, eager, smiling, singing country man bounding over the fields and hills heading for his dream job in Thailand.His family skipping along with him. The factory rep promised him the moon and stars and now finally he can feed and support his family and do so with dignity. O, Yes. Happy days are here for sure(?).

Get out of your cave J, come into the sunlight and wake up. The boss is an industrial terrorist who beats and mistreats his workers. There is NO excuse for what he is doing. You have a medieval attitude to your fellow beings.

[SteeleJoe]

Kilgore:

What you call, bad grammar and spelling I call typos and hurriedly leaving out punctuation. In other words...yeah, it was a mess. I'll try and make it a bit better:

So since Thais do it, they shouldn't complain about it being done to them. Then when we have people doing the same thing in our country, we shouldn't complain about the Thais doing it in their country? [Despite the fact that the US is supposed to be far beyond that sort of disregard for human rights, far more developed in in our systems that ensure them, and (I'd like to believe) is at least beyond toleration of the sort of thing we've read even if it's not completely absent.]

I don't think I'm being chauvinistic when I refer to the relative levels of development in the respective countries or the cultural and societal differences that mean this sort of thing should be even less acceptable in the US.

Most of what I said was meant to be tongue in cheek with a grain of truth, didn't mean to come off completely serious.

So which part were you serious about? Or partly serious about? Grain of truth?

EDITED SO AS NOT BE SPANKED FOR MORE TYPOS

Edited January 25, 2011 by SteeleJoe

[Chopperboy]

Expect to see more of this - the problem is the new passport scheme.

It gives Burmesse workers a 2 year visa - something many ferang would be happy with!

The visa is meant to be linked to a work permit, but they haven't been issued. So workers feel that once they get the 2 year visa in their passport they can go and work wherever they like. The problem comes if the company they were working for lent them the 6000 Baht to make the visa in the first place. They may want to hold the passport until thats paid off, while the workers may want to get the passport and move. Then there is the repatriation fund which employers are meant to pay 400Baht per worker per month into. It's intended to pay for them to be "repatriated" after the 2 year visa is up. So the owner won't want to pay for it if the worker has already left. Answers are thin on the ground, know one knows how the scheme will pan out. If workers start moving around and wages rise, expect Thailand to get more expensive, after all one of the reasons its still cheap, is cheap labour.

[Kilgore Trout]

Kilgore:

What you call, bad grammar and spelling I call typos and hurriedly leaving out punctuation. In other words...yeah, it was a mess. I'll try and make it a bit better:

So since Thais do it, they shouldn't complain about it being done to them. Then when we have people doing the same thing in our country, we shouldn't complain about the Thais doing it in their country? [Despite the fact that the US is supposed to be far beyond that sort of disregard for human rights, far more developed in in our systems that ensure them, and (I'd like to believe) is at least beyond toleration of the sort of thing we've read even if it's not completely absent.]

I don't think I'm being chauvinistic when I refer to the relative levels of development in the respective countries or the cultural and societal differences that mean this sort of thing should be even less acceptable in the US.

Most of what I said was meant to be tongue in cheek with a grain of truth, didn't mean to come off completely serious.

So which part were you serious about? Or partly serious about? Grain of truth?

EDITED SO AS NOT BE SPANKED FOR MORE TYPOS

typos, bad punctuation, whatever, if you expected anyone to understand what you said in your second post from reading your first post then perhaps you are giving me too much credit.

What I am serious about, the grain of truth if you will; is that yes, there is something to be said about complaining about something you do yourself. Kind of like if I was smoking and complaining that the guy next to me was smoking. Thais know what goes on here and how the Burmese are treated, so, knowing that why should they complain when their own are treated badly as migrant workers in another country? I'm sure you've heard the old adage, the pot calling the kettle black eh....

[SteeleJoe]

Well, sorry I'm so incomprehensible.

Yeah, "pot, meet kettle"...I get it. Let me try and make it simple lest I muddle it up again:

Thais have done it, and its wrong. It's been done in the US and its also wrong. You ask: Why should Thais complain about it being done to some Thais, because other Thais have done it to some Burmese?

Seriously? It seems obvious to me. Because its unjust and they don't like it being done to their countrymen.

Again I have to ask essentially the same thing: do you ever complain about anything Thais do that has also been done in the US? I'm all for Thais cleaning up their own backyard. But as long as there is something to accurately criticize about the US (as there is about any place) then I'm OK with it being criticized. Just as I'm OK with criticizing the Thais when its warranted.

[Kilgore Trout]

Well, sorry I'm so incomprehensible.

Yeah, "pot, meet kettle"...I get it. Let me try and make it simple lest I muddle it up again:

Thais have done it, and its wrong. It's been done in the US and its also wrong. You ask: Why should Thais complain about it being done to some Thais, because other Thais have done it to some Burmese?

Seriously? It seems obvious to me. Because its unjust and they don't like it being done to their countrymen.

Again I have to ask essentially the same thing: do you ever complain about anything Thais do that has also been done in the US? I'm all for Thais cleaning up their own backyard. But as long as there is something to accurately criticize about the US (as there is about any place) then I'm OK with it being criticized. Just as I'm OK with criticizing the Thais when its warranted.

No, I never complain about anything

[Elaine]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

What a pitiful response.

[asiancup2007]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

The Burmese workers being held captive on fishing boats, in private homes etc ect are free to go are they?

Slavery isn't the free market at work.

Do you need a work permit to be a clown?

Edited January 25, 2011 by asiancup2007

[ginjag]

"The workers can no longer tolerate the sub-standard conditions, and the constant deductions from their paypackets without any explanation," a statement by MAP said. "Whenever the workers have asked for an explanation of the deductions they have been threatened with deportation.

"Then [on Sunday], workers were outraged when a worker was beaten by a Thai foreman first in the market and then back in his room. When a Burmese interpreter came to clear up the situation, he too was beaten," it said.

The workers demanded to negotiate directly with the factory owner. "They want to be paid the full legal overtime rates; plus an explanation of the various deductions made from their pay packets before they receive them," MAP said.

They also demanded more toilets. At present, there were only four toilets for workers.

They said they needed full compensation for accidents at work, and improved access to healthcare.

"They have called for an end to discriminatory practices between the treatment of Thai and Burmese workers."

Many of the workers at the factory hold temporary passports and migrant workers cards. The minimum wage in Ratchaburi is Bt180 baht a day.

"In September last year, MAP Foundation had to contact the Labour Protection and Welfare office when 12 women workers at the factory complained that the employer confiscated their personal documents. One of the women, who was pregnant, was refused treatment at hospital because her work permit and health card were held by the employer," the statement said.

Yeah, if they don't like it they should just go back to the military dictatorship they fled from.

Jeez. Some people.

Nothing matter with migrant workers-they are needed if no workforce is available, OR thai workers are too lazy to do the job, especially for peanuts. treat who you have with respect, the owners sound like thugs to me. What are the army doing there, shouldn,t they be near the borders to stop invasions. Protect the country from threat ? If anyone should be there it should only be the police, to help sort out the skirmishes, and restore order. The last poster Has lost it--sure...what a shame.

Just to be clear -- sarcasm doesn't always work online -- I am NOT agreeing with the person whom I qouted.

Sorry, if I rushed to answer, and missed the jist of your meaning. It was The idiotic remark-That Jil-999 that threw me into a spasm. :jap:

[zthyadat]

They are BURMESE so a threat to national security.. Don't you know anything.. They did it before so they will do it again....invade that is... remember Ayythuya,,,,,,

A more recent example might be when Burmese invaded a hospital in Ratchaburi and held the patients hostage in 2000.

They were not Burmese, they were Karen. And the story is not nearly so simple as you make it out to be- it is a tough topic to cover in a single line.

The Karen came to the hospital by public bus, went in and asked for some Doctors to come with them to their village on the other side of the border. They were armed but they were not menacing or holding anyone hostage. They were desperate because the Burmese army had just conducted one of their infamous vicious raids on their village, shooting, raping and burning in accordance with the Burmese army intimidation handbook. Many people were badly wounded (and killed) and the Karen were seeking medical care. Admittedly a bit of a misguided way of going about it, but they didn't see any alternatives.

At the time, the media said that they held patients hostage, but patients interviewed by investigative journalists (ones who got another version of the story besides that of the military) said they were not held hostage, guns were not pointed at them. The doctors and nurses concurred that they didn't feel under threat from these people.

The Thai army arrived, the Karen surrendered. Then the soldiers took the Karen into a room, made them strip off and executed them with bullets to the back of the head. Doctors at the hospital also said that shooting the Karen was far from necessary - none of it was done in self defense - it was straight up murder.

After that bit of fun, these animals proudly displayed their kills, wrapped in sheets and lined up like cord wood outside the hospital (a place where people are supposed to be healed, not slaughtered)... And oh how the mainstream media loved it - the army were heroes. Apparently in ABAC polls a majority of Thais feel that summary executions - completely skipping any judicial process - are just fine and dandy for alleged drug dealers and anyone from the other side of the Burmese border. In actuality, the Thai military just help finish the job that the Burmese Army started.

Off topic a bit, but it is a good example of how some Thais seem to feel it is perfectly okay to treat anyone from Burma like garbage.

[jackr]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

What a pitiful response.

It is.

The army indeed. I'm not surprised at this news at all... many Thai's purport to be staunch Buddhists but can be so unbelievably hypocritical and way off the mark it's not funny.

Has anyone sent this company an email yet? You'll find it here in the footer.

Edited January 25, 2011 by jackr

[Buchholz]

They are BURMESE so a threat to national security.. Don't you know anything.. They did it before so they will do it again....invade that is... remember Ayythuya,,,,,,

A more recent example might be when Burmese invaded a hospital in Ratchaburi and held the patients hostage in 2000.

They were not Burmese, they were Karen. And the story is not nearly so simple as you make it out to be- it is a tough topic to cover in a single line.

The Karen came to the hospital by public bus, went in and asked for some Doctors to come with them to their village on the other side of the border. They were armed but they were not menacing or holding anyone hostage. They were desperate because the Burmese army had just conducted one of their infamous vicious raids on their village, shooting, raping and burning in accordance with the Burmese army intimidation handbook. Many people were badly wounded (and killed) and the Karen were seeking medical care. Admittedly a bit of a misguided way of going about it, but they didn't see any alternatives.

At the time, the media said that they held patients hostage, but patients interviewed by investigative journalists (ones who got another version of the story besides that of the military) said they were not held hostage, guns were not pointed at them. The doctors and nurses concurred that they didn't feel under threat from these people.

The Thai army arrived, the Karen surrendered. Then the soldiers took the Karen into a room, made them strip off and executed them with bullets to the back of the head. Doctors at the hospital also said that shooting the Karen was far from necessary - none of it was done in self defense - it was straight up murder.

After that bit of fun, these animals proudly displayed their kills, wrapped in sheets and lined up like cord wood outside the hospital (a place where people are supposed to be healed, not slaughtered)... And oh how the mainstream media loved it - the army were heroes. Apparently in ABAC polls a majority of Thais feel that summary executions - completely skipping any judicial process - are just fine and dandy for alleged drug dealers and anyone from the other side of the Burmese border. In actuality, the Thai military just help finish the job that the Burmese Army started.

Off topic a bit, but it is a good example of how some Thais seem to feel it is perfectly okay to treat anyone from Burma like garbage.

Amazing rendition of events and one that differs significantly from the live television coverage I watched in January 2000 and subsequent discussions with our Ratchaburi relatives who live around the corner from the hospital, which is much more consistent with :

but nevermind, it is off-topic and there's certainly more than enough accounts available on the Net for those unfamiliar with the events in Ratchaburi or the earlier God's Army raid on the Burmese Embassy in Bangkok in 1999.

They are a fascinating story and not to take anything away from the Karen's plight in Burma, but clearly... the God's Army actions in Thailand weren't the answer.

.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Buchholz

[Tonyzill]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

How compassionateof you and very very Niave you are. These people are like slaves and treated the same as reported. Just leaving is not an option. If that was your country there would be outrage.

[jillwilliams999]

Why can't the Burmese just go home. They are not bringing in much tourist dollars. American & European on the other end, do make a difference to the Thai economy.

[TAWP]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

Basic human rights apply to all.

Indeed - and a contract, written or verbal, must always be abide by or the consequences be taken.

[Bagwan]

Why can't the Burmese just go home. They are not bringing in much tourist dollars. American & European on the other end, do make a difference to the Thai economy.

Do your parents know that you post here? Does Nurse know that you have wandered away from the kindergarten?

Many Burmese contribute to the Thai economy by working here for peanuts on building sites and sweat shops while greedy acquisitive Thais get rich riding on their backs.

[JimsKnight]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

Burmese also deserve to be paid decent wages for the work and be treated like humans, irrespective if they Burmese or Thai.

I personally know a few Burmese in Thailand and the ones i know are hard workers, 7 days per week, 12-14 hour days. Their salary is 4000 baht, thats half of what Thai gets for half of the hours

Yep but this is the key tactic of a corporation who outsources for cheap labour.

They are getting the jobs Thai people would do for a bit more money. Unfortunately that comes with a hidden agenda they are now having upon them.

In this day and age I wouldn't work for 4000 baht p/m as a Thai man or woman.

The cheapskate employers can find cheap labour though!

[JimsKnight]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

If that was your country there would be outrage.

More's the pity when I've seen what the 'immigrants' have done to the construction industry in the UK.

Wake up and smell the coffee...

[TAWP]

The cheapskate employers can find cheap labour though!

This news isn't about cheap labours or outsourcing etc etc, it is about an employeer that allegedly arbitrarily do deductions from the employees paychecks to reduce the payout, that don't pay the agreed over-time pay etc - i.e. is cheating the employees out of their agreed wage and conditions. It doesn't matter if the employee makes 4k or 400k per month - a breach of contract in the employee-employer relationship needs to be dealt with properly.

[leafmould]

Just been reading about more evil employers- foxconn, a taiwanese firm employing mainly migrant country folk in china, low wage, long hours, unpaid disapline meetings, beatings, humiliation, forced school kid 'interns', lots of suicides recently, they make apple stuff, HP, dell, sony etc etc, they could learn some from the burmese no shit taking attitude, these businesses make billiones from hard working honest folk and probably fiddle the taxes as well. best of luck to the burmese and hope the chinese get some balls and hope some posters and thais and everyone get some more compassion

[leafmould]

If the Burmese don't like, they can always go home. The law does not prevent them to leave Thailand.

If that was your country there would be outrage.

More's the pity when I've seen what the 'immigrants' have done to the construction industry in the UK.

Wake up and smell the coffee...

yes wake up and smell the coffee,

borders were created by the rulers and maintained to keep parts of the world and different people poor, while making themselves - themselves! not thier own people, rich, if thier own people won't work for low pay like the engish did during and before the industrial revolution they would get others in like the irish navis in victorian england, the indians in the 60's, the poles and romanians recently, even if it meant changing imigration laws and bugerin up the working classes lives. the only long term solution to economic migration is that wherever you are in the world you will get the same wage for the same work and only have natural boundaries, then people will only travel and move if they really want to not because they starve at home even while business men make billions by sending food elsewhere etc. utopia perhaps but it has to happen eventualy but say goodbye to cheap holidays in third world countries, we see it start happen in LOS as it did in spain etc.

by the way i do work in construction in uk and i know it sucks but it's the "leaders" making this mess and when the romanians etc can have a fair wage in romania, ( i have worked in construction in romania too so i know they get/got survival wages) most will go and if it means fareness for everone it must be good, after all we like thailand among other things because of the buddhist view of compassion don't we?