Thai Response To Tragedy Vs. Us Response

[Nickerelastic]

The devastation area is mainly populated by black americans

[Galong]

The devastation area is mainly populated by black americans

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

FOX News finally got some video footage of white folks looting. I knew they were out there.

[Nickerelastic]

Surely not.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Nickerelastic

[Nickerelastic]

Some of you know that I get quite wound up at times.

What is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?

[Narachon]

The devastation area is mainly populated by black americans

....And your point being?

[Nickerelastic]

The devastation area is mainly populated by black americans

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

....And your point being?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Typical wasp biased reporting

[Mr. Farang]

FEMA chief: Victims bear some responsibility

Brown pleased with effort: 'Things are going relatively well'

Programming Note: CNN looks at the disaster and chaos crippling Louisiana, "NewsNight," Thursday, 10 p.m. ET.

(CNN) -- The director of the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Thursday those New Orleans residents who chose not to heed warnings to evacuate before Hurricane Katrina bear some responsibility for their fates.

Michael Brown also agreed with other public officials that the death toll in the city could reach into the thousands.

"Unfortunately, that's going to be attributable a lot to people who did not heed the advance warnings," Brown told CNN.

"I don't make judgments about why people chose not to leave but, you know, there was a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans," he said.

"And to find people still there is just heart-wrenching to me because, you know, the mayor did everything he could to get them out of there.

"So, we've got to figure out some way to convince people that whenever warnings go out it's for their own good," Brown said. "Now, I don't want to second guess why they did that. My job now is to get relief to them."

Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin have both predicted the death toll could be in the thousands.

Nagin issued a "desperate SOS" Thursday as violence disrupted efforts to rescue people still trapped in the flooded city and evacuate thousands of displaced residents living amid corpses and human waste. (Full story)

Residents expressed growing frustration with the disorder evident on the streets, raising questions about the coordination and timeliness of relief efforts. (See video on the desperate conditions -- 4:36 )

Sniper fire prevented Charity Hospital from evacuating its patients Thursday. The hospital has no electricity or water, food consists of a few cans of vegetables, and the patients had to be moved to upper floors because of looters. (Full story) (See video of a city sinking in chaos -- 2:54)

Brown was upbeat in his assessment of the relief effort so far, ticking off a list of accomplishments: more than 30,000 National Guard troops will be in the city within three days, the hospitals are being evacuated and search and rescue missions are continuing. (See video of National Guard efforts to rein in violence -- 3:14)

"Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans -- virtually a city that has been destroyed -- that things are going relatively well," Brown said.

Nevertheless, he said he could "empathize with those in miserable conditions."

Asked later on CNN how he could blame the victims, many of whom could not flee the storm because they had no transportation or were too frail to evacuate on their own, Brown said he was not blaming anyone.

"Now is not the time to be blaming," Brown said. "Now is the time to recognize that whether they chose to evacuate or chose not to evacuate, we have to help them."

Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, whose father was a longtime New Orleans mayor, said there was "plenty of blame to go around," citing underinvestement by federal authorities over many years "despite pleas and warnings by officials."

Earlier on CNN, Brown was asked why authorities had not prepared for just such a catastrophe -- given that the levees were designed to withstand only a Category 3 hurricane and Katrina was stronger than that.

"Government officials and engineers will debate that and figure that out," he replied. "Right now, I'm trying to focus on saving lives. I think we should have that debate, but at an appropriate time."

Brown said Katrina was unlike other hurricanes in which the magnitude of the disaster typically subsides after the initial blow. That was not the case Monday, when the Category 4 storm blew ashore.

"What we had in New Orleans is a growing disaster: The hurricane hit, that was one disaster; then the levees broke, that was another disaster; then the floods came; that became a third disaster."

Brown said he had to be careful about getting rescue teams to the site earlier.

"Otherwise, we would have faced an even higher death toll," he said.

[Mr. Farang]

A City of Despair and Lawlessness

Thousands Stranded in New Orleans; Troops Pour In

By Sam Coates and Dan Eggen

Washington Post Staff Writers

Friday, September 2, 2005; A01

NEW ORLEANS, Sept. 1 -- Federal and local authorities struggled Thursday to regain control of this ruined and lawless city, where tens of thousands of desperate refugees remained stranded with little hope of rescue and rapidly diminishing supplies of food and drinking water.

The chaos that has gripped New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina showed signs Thursday of spreading to Baton Rouge and along the storm-ravaged Gulf Coast, as weary refugees continued their slow and confused exodus to higher ground. Fresh waves of National Guard troops began pouring into the region in an attempt to quell the unrest, but large swaths of New Orleans and other sodden areas remained essentially ungoverned.

By the end of the day, the American Red Cross announced that its hurricane shelters were full, with an estimated 76,000 refugees at facilities in Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Texas and Arkansas. The official death toll in Mississippi climbed above 100, and Louisiana officials repeated warnings that thousands could be dead in New Orleans. The Energy Department said about 1.8 million customers remained without power due to Katrina.

Those left behind in the Crescent City, including many with diabetes and other worsening health conditions, clung to rooftops, gathered on overpasses and bridges, and huddled on islands of dry ground, waiting for help that never came. Parents carried small children, and grown children carried their elderly parents through the flotsam. Corpses floated in fetid waters and lay amid the crowds of refugees. Helicopters airlifted hundreds of seriously ill patients to a makeshift field hospital at the city's airport.

At the storm-damaged Superdome, faltering efforts to transport as many as 23,000 refugees to the Astrodome in Houston were temporarily halted after a gunshot was reportedly fired at a military helicopter. Authorities continued to struggle with incidents of looting, carjackings and other violence.

The deepening crisis prompted urgent pleas for help from local officials and residents, many of whom pointedly criticized the federal government for what they said was a meager and slow response.

"This is a desperate SOS," New Orleans's beleaguered mayor, C. Ray Nagin, said at one point in the day.

In Washington, President Bush and his aides said the government acted as quickly as possible and announced a range of stepped-up response plans, including promises of thousands of extra troops and billions of dollars for recovery and rebuilding efforts. Congress returned early from its summer recess to consider emergency legislation for immediate aid. Late Thursday night, the Senate approved $10.5 billion in assistance, and the House will meet on Friday.

Bush urged Americans to curb gasoline consumption to ease the impact of refineries crippled by the storm. He also warned Gulf Coast residents, including those searching for water and food, not to break into businesses or commit other crimes during the crisis.

"There ought to be zero tolerance of people breaking the law during an emergency such as this," Bush said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America."

"If people need water and food, we're going to do everything we can to get them water and food," Bush added. "It's very important for the citizens in all affected areas to take personal responsibility and assume a kind of a civic sense of responsibility so that the situation doesn't get out of hand, so people don't exploit the vulnerable."

The calls for calm came amid increasing signs of unrest among those who remain stranded in New Orleans. Continued engineering difficulties have kept 80 percent of the city flooded for more than three days.

Late Thursday, a team of local contractors hired by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers began driving steel pilings into the 700-foot breach in the 17th Street Canal levee, the principal source of floodwaters in Katrina's aftermath. State officials said the breach will be closed by Saturday, enabling engineers to start draining the city dry -- if the pumps can be put in working order. Corps officials apparently scrapped earlier plans to bring in sandbags and other items by barge or helicopter.

One of the most squalid and desperate situations unfolded at the city's fetid Ernest M. Morial Convention Center, where thousands had assembled over the preceding two days but which, as of Thursday evening, still had no visible government presence. A half-dozen buses arrived at one point to take a small number of refugees, but none had come since, according to the stranded residents and tourists.

The center itself, dark and without power, was rank with sewage and trash, and was avoided by most of the crowd, who milled around outside. As many as seven corpses lay out in the open around wailing babies and other refugees, according to witnesses and news reports, including one dead man covered in a blue tarp in the middle of a street.

Desperate refugees at one point broke into the center's food-service area to retrieve water and other goods, and the crowds have been roiled by fights and at least one gunshot, according to interviews. Some food rations finally arrived Thursday, dropped by helicopter.

With no buses in sight earlier Thursday, Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a nearby bridge to dry ground in search of aid. The mayor also issued a plea for help on CNN: "Right now, we are out of resources at the convention center and don't anticipate enough buses. We need buses. Currently, the convention center is unsanitary and unsafe, and we're running out of supplies."

Later in the day, thousands remained at the center while hundreds more wandered on roadways, looking for a way out. Some were lucky enough to be picked up by National Guard trucks.

"This is a horrible tragedy and an unconscionable way to treat human beings," said Davonna Good of Sacramento, who spent two days at the convention center site.

Throughout the ravaged city, frustrated residents complained that no one seemed to be in charge.

"We've been trying to get out," said Cornelius Washington as he walked along a highway overpass near the Superdome. "No one is giving the who, what, where, why and when. When they give us information, it's about what they're not going to do."

Amid signs of growing lawlessness, with looters roaming the city with impunity, heavily armed state and local police made a show of force in some places. Police in body armor and carrying shotguns and assault rifles were posted in the French Quarter and other parts of downtown to keep order.

Angry crowds have repeatedly shot at rescue crews. Pilots with a private rescue service were fired on when they tried to air-drop supplies at Kenner Memorial Hospital Wednesday evening.

"There was 75 to 100 people surrounding the helipad and several of them had guns," said Richard Zuschlag, chief executive and chairman of Acadian Ambulance Services. "The pilot became concerned that that was an unsafe environment to land in and so he went on to anther location."

Zuschlag said his company, with 25 civilian choppers, rescued 500 patients from New Orleans hospitals Thursday. He said that an estimated 1,500 remained at three more medical facilities and that rescue operations were being severely hampered by security issues.

"Both mornings, we have tried to go to Charity Hospital by boat and each time we have been shot at, so we determined it wasn't safe. The doctor there has 500 people inside his hospital and he is going berserk."

Ninety miles away in Baton Rouge, officials scrambled to accommodate hundreds of thousands of refugees expected to make their way to Louisiana's capital. Police have implemented a 10 p.m. curfew for fuel purchases, and there have been reports of attempted carjackings at gas stations. Officials are struggling with widespread power outages and water shortages from the storm.

In Texas, officials announced they could accommodate as many as 75,000 refugees from Katrina, including thousands being bused to Houston from New Orleans's Superdome and others to be housed in Dallas and San Antonio.

At a briefing for reporters, Army Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honore, commander of a hastily formed military unit called Task Force Katrina, said National Guard forces -- now numbering 4,700 in Louisiana and 2,700 in Mississippi -- will be strengthened to a combined 24,000 over the next three days. Eventually, 30,000 troops should be in the region, officials said.

A total of about 7,200 active-duty troops have been dispatched, most of them Navy personnel aboard seven ships. Early Thursday, yesterday, the Pentagon announced that among the ships would be an aircraft carrier, the USS Harry S. Truman, to serve as a floating command center for relief operations. Additional assets that defense officials said might be sent include field hospitals, reconnaissance aircraft and more evacuation vehicles.

But it is Guard troops who are central to law enforcement aspects of the relief effort because of legal constraints on active-duty forces performing such functions. By late Thursday, the number of Guard troops in Louisiana and Mississippi was due to top 13,000. Another 12,000 are expected by the weekend.

But among those complaining about the pace of National Guard efforts was a top Salvation Army official, Maj. Dalton Cunningham. He warned that some people still trapped by floodwaters in the organization's building in New Orleans could die if the timetable for rescuing them did not change.

Cunningham said a Guard representative told the group Thursday afternoon that it could be days before they would evacuate the 200 or so people stranded in the Salvation Army building on South Claiborne Avenue.

"They said they're doing it by quadrant and we'll just have to take a number and get in line," Cunningham said. "They are there without food. Some were on dialysis and needed medical attention. . . . Their lives are threatened. I'm not even sure they'll be alive when we get there."

Eggen reported from Washington. Staff writers Peter Slevin in New Orleans; Ann Gerhart and Jacqueline L. Salmon in Baton Rouge, La.; Christopher Lee in Biloxi, Miss.; and Peter Baker, Justin Blum, Bradley Graham, Guy Gugliotta, Michael Laris and Dafna Linzer in Washington contributed to this report.

[TokyoT]

Some of you know that I get quite wound up at times.

What is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well ya see the good ol’ U.S. of A is not a socialist nation. So generally speaking when bad things happen we don’t always feel it is the responsibility of mommy government to fix things. We tend to believe in personal responsibility – pull up the old boot straps and fix thing ourselves.

Americans tend to be proud of our personnel accomplishments and not our governments accomplishment (thank god – because as of late the USGov has not given us a lot to be proud of). I have faith in the American people not in the American government. The American people will do what is necessary to overcome this situation, I have no doubt.

So “what is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?” – Staying the fukc out of our way so we can become the richest nation on the plant for one thing. And by being the richest nation on the planet we are now able to have tens of millions of dollars in aid already flowing into the area from US businesses and personal contributions. Not because the American people feel the government aid is/will be lacking, but because we feel it is not the government’s responsibility to fix everything that goes wrong in the world around us. It is the American people responsibility to fix this mess – not our governments, and fix it we shall.

[The_Moog]

TokyoT has expressed in perfect terms the relationship of the US Government to its people.

The Bill of Rights, Constitution, they all help to protect the citizen from an intrusive Government. The people have always wanted that freedom in preference to the European welfare model.

What it does mean though is that one can't have it both ways and then expect the Government to then take a different role overnight.

Nice summary TokyoT.

[TokyoT]

Legendary pianist Fats Domino missing in hurricane

NEW YORK (AFP) - Legendary New Orleans singer-pianist Fats Domino, famous for 1950s hits "Ain't That a Shame" and "Blueberry Hill", was missing in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, his agent told AFP.

"We have not found him and we are trying to find him," said Al Embry, his manager of many years.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/050901/19/vrca.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CNN) -- Rock 'n' roll pioneer Fats Domino was among the thousands of New Orleans residents plucked from rising floodwaters, his daughter said Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/0...mino/index.html

Edit: Actually a little misleading as it appears he was "rescued" but location currently unknown???

Edited September 2, 2005 by TokyoT

[aughie]

I drove down to the local radio station. They were taking disaster relief donations . Thus far the people of my community who listen to that particular radio station and took the time to drive to the radio station had donated $127,000.00 in cash and checks with three more hours still to go. Rescue crews have been sent also.

[Mr. Farang]

AFP  (Yahoo! News)

Newspapers surprised at superpower 'humbled' by Hurricane Katrina

Newspapers expressed surprise at the sight of the US superpower "humbled" as it tries to cope with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina that swept over the states of the Gulf coast.

"The sight of a superpower humbled is in itself humbling," the Daily Telegraph wrote in an editorial.

"In Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama over the past four days, the United States has been struggling to provide the basic necessities of life - food, water and medicine - to the victims of Hurricane Katrina," it said.

"Take New Orleans alone. The breached levees remain unrepaired. About 20,000 refugees have been living in appalling squalor in the Superdome sports stadium," it said.

"Young men have not only been looting with impunity but firing on National Guardsmen. And the authorities still have no idea how many people may have died," the conservative daily said.

"The forces of nature have smashed the fabric of society beyond recognition," it commented.

"Individualism is one of America's many adornments. But it can hamper efficiency as competing voices wrangle over who should be responsible, or to blame, for what," it said.

"The challenge facing (US President George W.) Bush is to harness the native 'can-do' spirit to a co-ordinated rescue plan masterminded by the White House and the Department of Homeland Security.

The Daily Mail newspaper echoed the same theme in its editorial entitled "The humbling of a superpower."

"Here is a superpower that can crush at will a tinpot dictatorship - but then becomes so bogged down in the grisly aftermath of war that it finds itself unable to respond to anything like adequately to the plight of tens of thousands of its own citizens engulfed by a natural calamity," it said.

"President Bush, his ratings already in free-fall, could pay a high price indeed for his military folly," it said.

Link to Yahoo! News Story.

[britmaveric]

Not to be a little unsympathetic but most were told to leave days before.. when local govt states we wont have enough body bags if everyone stays is a clear indication one should leave.

Prior to monday Fox/CNN showed heaps of people having Hurricane Parties in those affected areas.

[Mr. Farang]

Not to be a little unsympathetic but most were told to leave days before..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many people were poor with little to no money to "leave" and "no where to go".... many were elderly, disabled, and sick.

The situation was similar to people on a sinking ship told by the government to "abandon ship" without a life raft.

My Dear Mother, who lives 1000 KM away, has been in tears watching the horror and tragedy on the television.

[Galong]

Legendary pianist Fats Domino missing in hurricane

NEW YORK (AFP) - Legendary New Orleans singer-pianist Fats Domino, famous for 1950s hits "Ain't That a Shame" and "Blueberry Hill", was missing in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, his agent told AFP.

"We have not found him and we are trying to find him," said Al Embry, his manager of many years.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/050901/19/vrca.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I see that they did find Fats Domino. He looked in pretty bad shape as a couple of guys were helping him walk. I hope he's OK... at least he's alive.

[lovejoy]

Not to be a little unsympathetic but most were told to leave days before.. when local govt states we wont have enough body bags if everyone stays is a clear indication one should leave. 

Prior to monday Fox/CNN showed heaps of people having Hurricane Parties in those affected areas. 

has this not been covered several times on this topic already??????

most of the people who didnt leave werent able to.

i'm sure the people stuck there would love someone to tell them i told you so!!!!

[Galong]

Some of you know that I get quite wound up at times.

What is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well ya see the good ol’ U.S. of A is not a socialist nation. So generally speaking when bad things happen we don’t always feel it is the responsibility of mommy government to fix things. We tend to believe in personal responsibility – pull up the old boot straps and fix thing ourselves.

Americans tend to be proud of our personnel accomplishments and not our governments accomplishment (thank god – because as of late the USGov has not given us a lot to be proud of). I have faith in the American people not in the American government. The American people will do what is necessary to overcome this situation, I have no doubt.

So “what is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?” – Staying the fukc out of our way so we can become the richest nation on the plant for one thing. And by being the richest nation on the planet we are now able to have tens of millions of dollars in aid already flowing into the area from US businesses and personal contributions. Not because the American people feel the government aid is/will be lacking, but because we feel it is not the government’s responsibility to fix everything that goes wrong in the world around us. It is the American people responsibility to fix this mess – not our governments, and fix it we shall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you ToykoT, that's a nice description of what might actually be the case.

So many have taken what I said and twisited it around to make me look evil and unsymathetic. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I do care a lot and that's why I am upset at the GOVERNMENT'S response. Bush is incompetent and surely can't deal with something of this magnitude unfortunately. Fox a propaganda tool of the Bush administration in my opinion.

The people of the US of A will do a much better job of making things right again, because management has dropped the ball.

Furthermore, it's too bad that we don't have better news to watch (or read). They always paint as black a picture as possible because that's what sells. I seem to recall a news show that Ted Turner did called "The Good News". It was all about folks being nice to others and folks helping the needy. It flopped. It's a test that failed I reckon.

New Orleans looking like downtown Baghdad... now that sells!

Oooo, let's see how folks on this forum flame me for saying this!

[BAF]

In my eyes, Thailand is 1st World on responding to disasters and the US could use a swift kick in their 3rd World quality back side. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct me if I am wrong but RE Thailand and tsunami, I seem to remember:

- stories about the very news of the tsunami having hit their country given HOURS AFTER the fact

- stories about how Thai officials had been warned of the impending danger but did and said nothing to the public not to harm the tourism and the economy

- stories about Thai politicians blaming the loots on foreign workers (mainly Burmese) and saying Thais are not capable of something like that

- stories about real and fake Thai police taking part in the loots and stealing from foreign workers before arresting them for the loots

- stories about Thai police arresting foreign illegal workers outside of the hit places and charging them for the loots

- stories about covert mass burials

- stories about under-reporting the total casualties

- stories about under-reporting foreign illegal workers and Thai casualties

- stories about children disappearing from policed gathering points and foreign children being handed to unidentified locals

- stories about foreigners from 3rd world countries being discriminated in the rescue efforts

- stories about Thai govt not wanting to accept foreign financial aids

- stories about Thai bureaucracy keeping foreign aids in ports

- stories about Thai govt denying the true extension and the final results of the damage

Moreover, once it was all over:

- stories about Thais refusing to help the economic recovery of the hit areas, and their fellow Thais, visiting there or buying products from there for fear of ghosts and of the seafood having been in contact with corpses

- stories about business owners in the hit areas laying staff off and complaining about the lack of business all the while keeping prices at pre-tsunami levels

True first class response and handling of the situation indeed...

[aughie]

Not to be a little unsympathetic but most were told to leave days before.. when local govt states we wont have enough body bags if everyone stays is a clear indication one should leave. 

Prior to monday Fox/CNN showed heaps of people having Hurricane Parties in those affected areas. 

has this not been covered several times on this topic already??????

most of the people who didnt leave werent able to.

i'm sure the people stuck there would love someone to tell them i told you so!!!!

How many people were left in the city, how many buses would it have taken to move them, move them to where because where is outside of the hurricanes path? The people who did flee by car how far did they have to drive to escape the storms path?

[chownah]

Some of you know that I get quite wound up at times.

What is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well ya see the good ol’ U.S. of A is not a socialist nation. So generally speaking when bad things happen we don’t always feel it is the responsibility of mommy government to fix things. We tend to believe in personal responsibility – pull up the old boot straps and fix thing ourselves.

Americans tend to be proud of our personnel accomplishments and not our governments accomplishment (thank god – because as of late the USGov has not given us a lot to be proud of). I have faith in the American people not in the American government. The American people will do what is necessary to overcome this situation, I have no doubt.

So “what is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?” – Staying the fukc out of our way so we can become the richest nation on the plant for one thing. And by being the richest nation on the planet we are now able to have tens of millions of dollars in aid already flowing into the area from US businesses and personal contributions. Not because the American people feel the government aid is/will be lacking, but because we feel it is not the government’s responsibility to fix everything that goes wrong in the world around us. It is the American people responsibility to fix this mess – not our governments, and fix it we shall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

TokyoT sees the American citizenry through rose colored glasses!! His remarks seem to me to be about some sort of ideal attitudes and have very little to do with most Americans I've ever met and I lived there for a long long time.

[The_Moog]

Bush is incompetent and surely can't deal with something of this magnitude unfortunately.

Its not his job to do that.

Not sure how the Federal Government is empowered to intervene directly. Probably Governor of Louisiana makes the call.

[thaibebop]

Some of you know that I get quite wound up at times.

What is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well ya see the good ol’ U.S. of A is not a socialist nation. So generally speaking when bad things happen we don’t always feel it is the responsibility of mommy government to fix things. We tend to believe in personal responsibility – pull up the old boot straps and fix thing ourselves.

Americans tend to be proud of our personnel accomplishments and not our governments accomplishment (thank god – because as of late the USGov has not given us a lot to be proud of). I have faith in the American people not in the American government. The American people will do what is necessary to overcome this situation, I have no doubt.

So “what is The Richest Nation on the planet doing for its people?” – Staying the fukc out of our way so we can become the richest nation on the plant for one thing. And by being the richest nation on the planet we are now able to have tens of millions of dollars in aid already flowing into the area from US businesses and personal contributions. Not because the American people feel the government aid is/will be lacking, but because we feel it is not the government’s responsibility to fix everything that goes wrong in the world around us. It is the American people responsibility to fix this mess – not our governments, and fix it we shall.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Something I feel I should add to this is that (correct me if I am wrong) but the state in question has to request aid from the federal goverenment, before the feds can do anything. This might slow up response time from the feds.

[thaibebop]

You completely ignore the fact this was a Hurricane not as Tsunami and thus the destruction to infrastructure extends hundreds of miles inland.  Very, very different situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that the pathetic response that the US government is giving is somehow acceptable?

If I'm misunderstanding you... sorry. But it seems that a storm surge is a storm surge. It's merely a matter of degree.

OK, just looking at New Orleans then... this was the city that the news media and the weather agencies said would get hit and they did. I'm not talking about all the damage that went down inland. Look at how mismanaged the rescue process is going in this one city - I'm appauled.

If we didn't have our military fighting for oil, we'd have a few more hands to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what the National Guard is for dope! What rock have you been under?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, the National Guard is for "dope". I thought that was illegal. I'm guessing that you meant that, "that's what the National Guard is for, dope!" It's called a comma.

So, watching CNN and FOX, I don't see much of the National Guard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A comma? A fcking comma? That is how you respond to my post?

All right English teacher I won't make you defend your statement. It's clear you don't what the National Guard is. So, since English is what you do know, I hear by charge you with acting as the Official ThaiVisa Spell Checker. From here on out all TV members can PM you with their grammer questions. This is how you can help in these troubled times, when Goverenments drop balls on the people and English Teachers wag their fingers at them.

A comma.

[Galong]

You completely ignore the fact this was a Hurricane not as Tsunami and thus the destruction to infrastructure extends hundreds of miles inland.  Very, very different situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that the pathetic response that the US government is giving is somehow acceptable?

If I'm misunderstanding you... sorry. But it seems that a storm surge is a storm surge. It's merely a matter of degree.

OK, just looking at New Orleans then... this was the city that the news media and the weather agencies said would get hit and they did. I'm not talking about all the damage that went down inland. Look at how mismanaged the rescue process is going in this one city - I'm appauled.

If we didn't have our military fighting for oil, we'd have a few more hands to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what the National Guard is for dope! What rock have you been under?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, the National Guard is for "dope". I thought that was illegal. I'm guessing that you meant that, "that's what the National Guard is for, dope!" It's called a comma.

So, watching CNN and FOX, I don't see much of the National Guard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A comma? A fcking comma? That is how you respond to my post?

All right English teacher I won't make you defend your statement. It's clear you don't what the National Guard is. So, since English is what you do know, I hear by charge you with acting as the Official ThaiVisa Spell Checker. From here on out all TV members can PM you with their grammer questions. This is how you can help in these troubled times, when Goverenments drop balls on the people and English Teachers wag their fingers at them.

A comma.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, It was supposed to sound a bit tongue-in-cheek. The point of language is to get the point across, which you successfully accomplished.

Nice language Thaibebop. Educated participants don't seem to resort to vulgarity to get their point across. The moderator should have edited your vulgarity.

I do see that more National Guard troops are being sent.

I also see that some military troops are going to N.O. due to the rioting and looting. I think that this is something that the gov should have seen coming. Unfortunately, this seems to be a trait amoung thugs when a true tragedy happens... and that's not only true in the US of A, but other countries as well, such as Iraq.

It certainly happened in Thailand both during the tsunami and afterwards... and perhaps it's still going on. This is something that the Thai government should have seen coming.

Oh, and it's 'grammar', not 'grammer'... (tongue-in-cheek again, so don't lay an egg)

[Galong]

In my eyes, Thailand is 1st World on responding to disasters and the US could use a swift kick in their 3rd World quality back side. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct me if I am wrong but RE Thailand and tsunami, I seem to remember:

- stories about the very news of the tsunami having hit their country given HOURS AFTER the fact

- stories about how Thai officials had been warned of the impending danger but did and said nothing to the public not to harm the tourism and the economy

- stories about Thai politicians blaming the loots on foreign workers (mainly Burmese) and saying Thais are not capable of something like that

- stories about real and fake Thai police taking part in the loots and stealing from foreign workers before arresting them for the loots

- stories about Thai police arresting foreign illegal workers outside of the hit places and charging them for the loots

- stories about covert mass burials

- stories about under-reporting the total casualties

- stories about under-reporting foreign illegal workers and Thai casualties

- stories about children disappearing from policed gathering points and foreign children being handed to unidentified locals

- stories about foreigners from 3rd world countries being discriminated in the rescue efforts

- stories about Thai govt not wanting to accept foreign financial aids

- stories about Thai bureaucracy keeping foreign aids in ports

- stories about Thai govt denying the true extension and the final results of the damage

Moreover, once it was all over:

- stories about Thais refusing to help the economic recovery of the hit areas, and their fellow Thais, visiting there or buying products from there for fear of ghosts and of the seafood having been in contact with corpses

- stories about business owners in the hit areas laying staff off and complaining about the lack of business all the while keeping prices at pre-tsunami levels

True first class response and handling of the situation indeed...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BAF, you bring up many interesting and most likely true points. My point, which I should have expanded upon, was that the initial response to the immediate needs of the victims-- that being food, water and shelter-- were addressed in a very timely manner. I live in Phuket and I saw this first-hand.

A lot of very nasty things have happened after the tsunami. Your list seems very comprehensive and I have heard about every one that you brought up. It's truly a sad statement of the human condition when folks who are more well-off take advantage of folks in need. In light of this, both the governments US and Thailand are woefully lacking in their abilities to handle such situations. It's sick.

Thanks for your input.

[Mr. Farang]

An AP Essay: Is This Happening in America?

By JIM LITKE, Associated Press Writer

Image after image of unrelenting sorrow, layered one atop the other like a deck of haunting cards. A baby held aloft, inches above a sea of desperate faces, gasping for air. The dead left where they've fallen, in plain view, robbed of even the simple dignity of a shroud. Survivors waiting, then begging, then fighting, finally, over food and water.

Here.

While the images of natural disasters and man-made ones alike, from Sri Lanka or Baghdad, cause despair, the pictures from New Orleans inspire not just helplessness, but disbelief. The richest, most powerful nation in the world can build schools, hospitals and shelters halfway around the globe, but it can't provide the basic necessities for its own days after a disaster that everybody saw coming?

Here?

Usually, we shudder, change the channel or turn the page, awaiting better news. But there is something too compelling about these pictures. The distance between us and the people in them has been narrowed, rendered uncomfortably close, and not just for those who are family, friends or neighbors. We recognize them. We all see people like them.

Here.

Authorities can't make the waters that did that retreat. They can't begin to rebuild the levee or the homes and businesses made uninhabitable, at least not now. They will never be able to restore much of what was washed away in the flood.

But if a reporter can interview a man standing outside a looted drugstore, and record his reluctance at having to go inside and steal pads for incontinence, why couldn't someone get medical supplies to the people huddled at the Superdome or the convention center in time, or the buses promised to evacuate them?

There are more questions than answers, and will be for years to come. That's the nature of disaster, and its aftermath. They expose our fragility, overwhelm our best intentions, mock our attempts to impose the sense of calm and order that prevails when life proceeds according to some rough plan.

Yet, ultimately, that's what is most unsettling about the constant stream of images: The suffering goes on not just for hours, but for days after we should have and could have ended it. And for all the commissions, reports and bravado that passes for preparedness, we didn't. It was a hand we never expected to be dealt.

Here.

There will be time enough, too, to assess blame, for politicians to point fingers, find and fire those deemed accountable. And maybe even to figure out how a handful of Southeast Asian governments, whose economies, armies and emergency resources could all be folded comfortably several times inside those of the United States, responded to a tsunami much larger and fiercer than Hurricane Katrina with swiftness and efficiency, and we could not. And so the frustration builds, not so much over what happened, but what did not.

Here.

In the meantime, the disturbing images keep rolling in, interrupted now and then by more hopeful ones. The trucks, jeeps, buses and helicopters so scarce the past few days are out moving in force. Police and National Guardsmen are on the streets, rescue workers are getting in place. The babies in the latest pictures are contentedly emptying bottles, pallets filled with water and food are being unloaded by human chains. One administration official after another turns up on the screen to offer reassurances and soothing words.

But the damage has been done, and it's no longer limited to the lives lost and ruined, or the property destroyed. Those are things, sadly enough, that can be totaled up over time.

Much harder to measure is the cost of all those searing images burned into the national conscience, and what they've done to the sense of security that was our last refuge when disasters wreaked havoc, and then, unnecessary suffering, in distant lands — the certainty that it couldn't happen here.

Now we know better.

Link to AP Essay.

[kat]

as a US expat I agree totally...I was also appalled at the delay.

As Louisiana state resources were crippled a quick and effective response was required on the federal level. Guess who was kickin' back at the ranch when all this was going on...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Galong,

People in N.O. hear that the hurricane is coming just about every year. Many have stories about evacuating to another state, only to have the hurricane change directions and follow them. It’s a crapshoot.

One big difference in the recovery effort in N.O. and in Phuket is that the water in N.O. won’t go anywhere anytime soon. This was not two or three big waves that went back out to sea leaving everything dry for the clean-up.

Maybe you know something I don’t, but I would think it’s probably none too easy to operate generators under 6--20 feet of water.

Yes, not a good place to build a city, but that criticism has been common knowledge since the French chose the spot in the 1600’s.

Why no army or national guard on the scene? If you’d read the papers in the last couple years you’d know it’s no secret that critics have been warning that with all the troops presently in Iraq, we’d be facing disaster, should they suddenly be needed at home.

Why are the looters on T.V. black? N.O.’s population is 70% black, -duh! The mayor is black, the chief of police is black, city council etc,. A BLACK MAJORITY CITY. (If you’re from the states you should know the basics).

It’s also one of the poorest, most crime-ridden and least educated cities in the U.S.. The people with the money to get out did evacuate. But who would help the poor? Nobody of any color. Tourism is about the only thing going, industry wise. At one time it was famous for slave trading and the cotton markets. There’s hardly any infrastructure in N.O. during the best of times. New Orleans be poor folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The OP completely ignores the looting and murders that took place in Thailand in the immediate aftermath of the Tsunami.

The first boat to leave Phi Phi was not carrying injured people but looters escaping with their booty.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't forget the difference in News Culture either.

The US reporters will look for and report problems.

Thai reporters will not report on issues that show Thailand in a bad light, and when they do, they risk being fired.

I believe too that there was a news blackout imposed by the Thai government on any such 'bad light news' right after the Tsunami - It was obvious from huge inconcistencies in the reporting within Thailand and from the international press that someone was fixing the Thai news.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Galong, you need to take your head out of your arse old mate. Comparing the clean-up operation in Thailand from the devastation of a tsunami smashing inland no more than a hundred metres or so to that of the response in the US from a mega-hurricane reaching hundreds of miles inland is rather dumb. The army and emergency services could simply drive to the little island of Phuket from any direction and administer aid; bit different in the States where the devastation is total...city-wide and state-wide. If you want to be pedantic, why the &lt;deleted&gt; didn't the relevant office in Muang Thai worn of the imminent tsunami they were told would probably come? Face loss for possible non-show obviously, but how many wasted lives did that cost?

Stop wagging your finger and engage the brain first. People were warned, people stayed, the land is lower than sea level, people chose to live there.

Regards the looters: what was that about that piss ant wandering into the jewellers in Phuket between waves??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Normally, I don't reply to troll posts such as this, but to the o/p, you really should check yourself into the nearest temple and learn about something we call compassion for others.

In case you weren't here last December 26, there wasn't that great of a response from this government. How long did it take before the news was allowed to even mention there was a tsunami? Many hours if my memory serves me correct. My roomies were watching Thai TV and nothing was even mentioned about it.

Second, to try to paint a picture about the Thai's being so ever perfect in their handling of the situation, and as you write, 1st world, you're out of your mind. Based upon a sequence of events it sure seems that the PM, ever so perfect, went to the devistated area purely out of concern for everyone invloved. And pigs fly. I've never seen such blatant corruption and selfishness as I had seen here. People not being able to go to their homes, not being able to claim their possessions, and most important, to find their loved ones. No. It was more like big business, gov't officials, and the Thai mafia types moving in and literally stealing what those poor folks owned. They'll never see anything that is rightfully theirs. What you write is nothing but hogwash.

Like others here have posted, hurricanes don't normally move that far inland. This is indeed catastrophic. Don't compare when there is no comparison.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my eyes, Thailand is 1st World on responding to disasters and the US could use a swift kick in their 3rd World quality back side. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Correct me if I am wrong but RE Thailand and tsunami, I seem to remember:

- stories about the very news of the tsunami having hit their country given HOURS AFTER the fact

- stories about how Thai officials had been warned of the impending danger but did and said nothing to the public not to harm the tourism and the economy

- stories about Thai politicians blaming the loots on foreign workers (mainly Burmese) and saying Thais are not capable of something like that

- stories about real and fake Thai police taking part in the loots and stealing from foreign workers before arresting them for the loots

- stories about Thai police arresting foreign illegal workers outside of the hit places and charging them for the loots

- stories about covert mass burials

- stories about under-reporting the total casualties

- stories about under-reporting foreign illegal workers and Thai casualties

- stories about children disappearing from policed gathering points and foreign children being handed to unidentified locals

- stories about foreigners from 3rd world countries being discriminated in the rescue efforts

- stories about Thai govt not wanting to accept foreign financial aids

- stories about Thai bureaucracy keeping foreign aids in ports

- stories about Thai govt denying the true extension and the final results of the damage

Moreover, once it was all over:

- stories about Thais refusing to help the economic recovery of the hit areas, and their fellow Thais, visiting there or buying products from there for fear of ghosts and of the seafood having been in contact with corpses

- stories about business owners in the hit areas laying staff off and complaining about the lack of business all the while keeping prices at pre-tsunami levels

True first class response and handling of the situation indeed...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for these comments. I'm not directly affected, but I have a close friend from NOs. Two of her siblings are missing. I'm too numb to comment right now.

[TokyoT]

TokyoT sees the American citizenry through rose colored glasses!!  His remarks seem to me to be about some sort of ideal attitudes and have very little to do with most Americans I've ever met and I lived there for a long long time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Maybe my post gave too much of a rosy picture of how Americans feel/believe/act. But believe me I am not looking at the citizenry through rose-colored glasses. I do agree with your statement that many (maybe not most) Americans do not share the same ideas that I expressed (in my opinion this is one of the biggest problems in the USA today – more on this later), or have the same gumption I mention. But there will be enough Americans with this type of attitude to get things turned around – and this is the important part.

Quick b*tch about the problems in the USA today. My earlier post basically shows my personal belief in small government and giving the people the power. Too many Americans today think the government needs to fix all their ills. Too many Americans now days look around and want the government to do everything for them instead of stepping up and fixing things themselves - same thing going on right now with the hurricane relief effort. Everybody pointing fingers at the federal government, at Mr. Bush, at FEMA - Quit your moaning and pitch in to lend a hand to fix the damaged areas.

In regard to the OP – I really think making any comparisons to the hurricane and the tsunami is like comparing apples and oranges.

The scale of things is significantly different. I mean people in Tennessee have been effected by a hurricane (for those of you that may be unfamiliar with the geography of the US, Tennessee is a very land locked state – no where near the ocean, but it was still effected by a hurricane). One report I read indicated that 90,000 square miles had been declared a federal disaster area. Well 90,000 square miles is over 40% of the landmass of Thailand. Granted the area declared a federal disaster area is probably conservative. But still the scale is significantly different.

I have not taken a hard look at the numbers in regard to population effected but I think a review of these numbers will also highlight the difference in the scale of these to events.

Comparing two types of disaster further complicates the matter. With the hurricane some of the places are still underwater and therefore still being effected and limiting access and ability to aid. Whereas with the tsunami once the water had subsided access was much less limited.

[thaibebop]

You completely ignore the fact this was a Hurricane not as Tsunami and thus the destruction to infrastructure extends hundreds of miles inland.  Very, very different situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you think that the pathetic response that the US government is giving is somehow acceptable?

If I'm misunderstanding you... sorry. But it seems that a storm surge is a storm surge. It's merely a matter of degree.

OK, just looking at New Orleans then... this was the city that the news media and the weather agencies said would get hit and they did. I'm not talking about all the damage that went down inland. Look at how mismanaged the rescue process is going in this one city - I'm appauled.

If we didn't have our military fighting for oil, we'd have a few more hands to help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what the National Guard is for dope! What rock have you been under?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, the National Guard is for "dope". I thought that was illegal. I'm guessing that you meant that, "that's what the National Guard is for, dope!" It's called a comma.

So, watching CNN and FOX, I don't see much of the National Guard.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A comma? A fcking comma? That is how you respond to my post?

All right English teacher I won't make you defend your statement. It's clear you don't what the National Guard is. So, since English is what you do know, I hear by charge you with acting as the Official ThaiVisa Spell Checker. From here on out all TV members can PM you with their grammer questions. This is how you can help in these troubled times, when Goverenments drop balls on the people and English Teachers wag their fingers at them.

A comma.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, It was supposed to sound a bit tongue-in-cheek. The point of language is to get the point across, which you successfully accomplished.

Nice language Thaibebop. Educated participants don't seem to resort to vulgarity to get their point across. The moderator should have edited your vulgarity.

I do see that more National Guard troops are being sent.

I also see that some military troops are going to N.O. due to the rioting and looting. I think that this is something that the gov should have seen coming. Unfortunately, this seems to be a trait amoung thugs when a true tragedy happens... and that's not only true in the US of A, but other countries as well, such as Iraq.

It certainly happened in Thailand both during the tsunami and afterwards... and perhaps it's still going on. This is something that the Thai government should have seen coming.

Oh, and it's 'grammar', not 'grammer'... (tongue-in-cheek again, so don't lay an egg)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, but sometimes the smart ones know when a good fck will drive the point home.

I am not disagreeing that there was a delay or things could have been done better. I am just saying that the fault lies with the goverenment officals at state level not the feds. The feds didn't know what Louisiana needed and didn't know until Louisiana said something.