Need To Deposit Check, Later Send Money To The Irs.

[gregb]

I am closing out my IRA in the US to pay for hospital bills and other living expenses. I am going to generate a rather sizeable tax hit from this, and I have no idea how to pay US taxes from Thailand, having never been in a position to need to do it before.

Once I receive the check and go to deposit it, what document do I need to get from the Thai bank so that I can later wire a portion of that money back out of the country in order to give Uncle Sam his pound of flesh? I don't know yet exactly what the taxes are going to be. I won't know the exact amount until next year.

Anybody know the procedure? Also, in case I generate a penalty from underestimating my taxes, will I be allowed to send money out of the country on two separate instances?

Thanks for any advice.

[Langsuan Man]

If you try and cash a US check here in Thailand you could be waiting a while for it to clear and the funds become available in your Thai bank account

Since you must have some kind of financial account in the US you are best off to keep the money in the US and then transfer the amounts you need via ATM withdrawals or Wire Transfers

If you do have a US bank account then paying the IRS is relatively easy since you can have the IRS debit or credit your US bank, plus you can file electronically no matter where you are

As far as estimating and then paying your withholding for your IRA distribution, most brokerages will allow you to have as much as you want or no money withheld from the distribution for taxes

You should be able to tell what your effective tax rate is from last year and use that % to determine how much to withhold

I just think that things are so much easier if you maintain a US bank account, especially when you are dealing with the IRS, Thai Banks, and currency conversion

But if you insist on doing it the Thai way then I doubt that you would need to worry about getting money out of your Thai Bank account to pay the IRS, since you are not talking about large amounts of money so no special forms are needed, just be prepared to get hit for conversion both ways

Good luck whatever way you choose to go

[gregb]

If you try and cash a US check here in Thailand you could be waiting a while for it to clear and the funds become available in your Thai bank account

Since you must have some kind of financial account in the US you are best off to keep the money in the US

Understood. I have accepted I'll have to wait 3 weeks to a month for the funds to clear. Unfortunately, I do not have a bank account in the US, and I will not be returning to the states any time soon in order to open one.

Thus, the money needs to come on shore to Thailand. The question becomes, how do I pay US taxes on this next year?

Last year my tax due was zero, so that doesn't help me estimate taxes at all. I have no idea what I will earn this year. It depends on whether I get a job or not. My taxes could be all over the place come April of next year. It could be 10% or it could be 30%. I may need to pay tens of thousands of dollars. This is not a small amount.

People must face this problem all the time. What is the solution?

Edited February 1, 2011 by gregb

[lopburi3]

Don't you have an option to withhold a portion of the IRA withdrawal? I always do. For most people at under 100k income 15-20% would probably be enough. That way there is no issue making estimated tax payment. If you must do I believe bank could issue you a check and you would sent with estimated tax-payment paperwork. I suspect most people are not in this position as they do have a US account.

It is easy to set up an account it in the US from here. Many of us have used USAA online to do it in minutes. I have also done at another online bank (but believe that required a US drivers license number).

[gregb]

It is easy to set up an account it in the US from here. Many of us have used USAA online to do it in minutes.

Last I remember reading, you needed a US address to open an account with USAA. Thailand was on a list of restricted countries. I won't lie and put a fake address in the states just to get around the rules. I have no idea what kind of legal problems that might create in the future. Some people will risk it, but I want to stay completely above board. I live in Thailand. I haven't even set foot in the US for over a decade.

Is there a bank in the US that will let you open an account from Thailand, with a Thailand address, with nothing more than a US passport?

In any case, right now I need a completely Thailand based solution. Is there paperwork that can be filed when depositing a foreign check in Thailand that will allow you to remit taxes back to the US next year? I have no ties to the USA. Telling me to leave the money in the US is not a solution.

What is the procedure if you only have banking access in Thailand? Someone must have dealt with this issue before.

[gk10002000]

There are several ways to pay the IRS. Download the 1040 Instruction pdf document from the IRS.gov website. Page 74 gives you several ways.

I assume you will be filing your taxes, and a 1040. If you send in a check, you include the 1040-V "voucher" form.

You can pay by debit or credit card.

You can pay by check or money order. You might want to give the IRS a call to make sure out of USA checks are accepted and what types.

If you electronically file your return, most have a provision for paying via electronic withdrawal. Again, you may have to check that out of USA bank account information is supported. I have not used turbo tax in a long time so I am not sure.

Have a firm in the USA do your taxes. I am sure their electronic filing method will support an interbank wire.

[gregb]

Have a firm in the USA do your taxes. I am sure their electronic filing method will support an interbank wire.

I've always assumed I can find an accountant in the US who can accept a SWIFT transfer and who will then cut a check to the evil empire on my behalf. That may be naive, but that is the assumption I am operating under. To me, that seems like a simple problem of finding an accountant who wants to make a few bucks. It doesn't seem to violate any rules anywhere.

What I am asking though, is how do I get the bank in Thailand to allow me to send that wire? What form do I need to fill out when I deposit a foreign check in a Thai bank that will allow me to wire out a percentage of that money when it comes time to pay up?

There are regulations that allow this for condos. Can I say the money is for a condo, and then never actually buy a condo? Or is sending the money back out of the country conditional on actually purchasing a dwelling? And would such a form allow me to do a wire on multiple occasions, or only a single transfer?

Is there an equivalent form that says "this money for expenses, but with liabilities".

How does this actually work on the Thai side?

[lopburi3]

Last I remember reading, you needed a US address to open an account with USAA.

Not true. For some services from USAA, such as securities investment, a US address would be required but it is not required for normal banking accounts.

[gregb]

Last I remember reading, you needed a US address to open an account with USAA.

Not true. For some services from USAA, such as securities investment, a US address would be required but it is not required for normal banking accounts.

Hmmm....

This thread from last year would seem to disagree with you:

Unless they have changed their policy in the last 12 months. A US address may not be required, but it seems that only a Thailand address is not sufficient, as the country is on a restricted list.

Has there been a change of policy that nobody has reported?

[Carmine6]

It is easy to set up an account it in the US from here. Many of us have used USAA online to do it in minutes.

Last I remember reading, you needed a US address to open an account with USAA. Thailand was on a list of restricted countries. I won't lie and put a fake address in the states just to get around the rules. I have no idea what kind of legal problems that might create in the future. Some people will risk it, but I want to stay completely above board. I live in Thailand. I haven't even set foot in the US for over a decade.

Is there a bank in the US that will let you open an account from Thailand, with a Thailand address, with nothing more than a US passport?

In any case, right now I need a completely Thailand based solution. Is there paperwork that can be filed when depositing a foreign check in Thailand that will allow you to remit taxes back to the US next year? I have no ties to the USA. Telling me to leave the money in the US is not a solution.

What is the procedure if you only have banking access in Thailand? Someone must have dealt with this issue before.

Just to check again, is there some reason you can't have the IRA trustee withhold some amount for taxes? I believe if you are too young to take a normal withdrawal they are required to withhold 10% unless you instruct them not to in the request. Except with a foreign address, I think they have to withhold some amount, could be 10%.

But you can also specify an amount to withhold, which would solve many of your problems if you estimate enough. Then you wouldn't need to get a large amount out of Thailand since much of your taxes would have already been paid.

Medical expenses are a way to claim exemption from the 10% penalty, but probably not in your situation. You may want to check about that though.

[Langsuan Man]

Have a firm in the USA do your taxes. I am sure their electronic filing method will support an interbank wire.

I've always assumed I can find an accountant in the US who can accept a SWIFT transfer and who will then cut a check to the evil empire on my behalf. That may be naive, but that is the assumption I am operating under. To me, that seems like a simple problem of finding an accountant who wants to make a few bucks. It doesn't seem to violate any rules anywhere.

What I am asking though, is how do I get the bank in Thailand to allow me to send that wire? What form do I need to fill out when I deposit a foreign check in a Thai bank that will allow me to wire out a percentage of that money when it comes time to pay up?

There are regulations that allow this for condos. Can I say the money is for a condo, and then never actually buy a condo? Or is sending the money back out of the country conditional on actually purchasing a dwelling? And would such a form allow me to do a wire on multiple occasions, or only a single transfer?

Is there an equivalent form that says "this money for expenses, but with liabilities".

How does this actually work on the Thai side?

Geez you are the one making it difficult

In my first post I stated that since the amounts are so small you will not need any "transfer" form from a Thai bank

If you think you can find an accountant in the US that will accept a swift transfer for you then why are you arguing with us about opening a US Bank account? I also do not find it credible that you can have an IRA in the US and have no "banking type" relationship there. IRA's have to be handled by brokerage houses or banks, so I would suggest that you contact them for your options

Investigate what we have suggested and then if these suggestions don't work then come back

You have a wealth of information here and you ask a question but want to argue about the answers you get

[gregb]

It is easy to set up an account it in the US from here. Many of us have used USAA online to do it in minutes.

Last I remember reading, you needed a US address to open an account with USAA. Thailand was on a list of restricted countries. I won't lie and put a fake address in the states just to get around the rules. I have no idea what kind of legal problems that might create in the future. Some people will risk it, but I want to stay completely above board. I live in Thailand. I haven't even set foot in the US for over a decade.

Is there a bank in the US that will let you open an account from Thailand, with a Thailand address, with nothing more than a US passport?

In any case, right now I need a completely Thailand based solution. Is there paperwork that can be filed when depositing a foreign check in Thailand that will allow you to remit taxes back to the US next year? I have no ties to the USA. Telling me to leave the money in the US is not a solution.

What is the procedure if you only have banking access in Thailand? Someone must have dealt with this issue before.

Just to check again, is there some reason you can't have the IRA trustee withhold some amount for taxes? I believe if you are too young to take a normal withdrawal they are required to withhold 10% unless you instruct them not to in the request. Except with a foreign address, I think they have to withhold some amount, could be 10%.

But you can also specify an amount to withhold, which would solve many of your problems if you estimate enough. Then you wouldn't need to get a large amount out of Thailand since much of your taxes would have already been paid.

Medical expenses are a way to claim exemption from the 10% penalty, but probably not in your situation. You may want to check about that though.

The check has already been cut. This discussion is academic now. I can only tell you my reasoning.

I have no way of knowing the proper withholding amount, as I have absolutely no way of estimating my taxes for this year. If I get a job, they will be very high, as the amount gets tacked onto my income at the highest tax bracket. If I remain unemployed, they should be minimal. The 10% penalty is not the issue. That is constant and was withheld at my request. At issue is my tax liability on the funds.

I could not afford to have the maximum withheld on the chance I might get a well paying job. If I do get one, then presumably I will be able to afford the higher tax rate from my salary. If I don't get a job, then I need that money, and I can't wait for the IRS to return it to me in 18 months.

I need to handle the estimated payments myself at this point, and pay the proper amount as my situation evolves throughout the year.

How can I do this?

[gk10002000]

Have a firm in the USA do your taxes. I am sure their electronic filing method will support an interbank wire.

I've always assumed I can find an accountant in the US who can accept a SWIFT transfer and who will then cut a check to the evil empire on my behalf. That may be naive, but that is the assumption I am operating under. To me, that seems like a simple problem of finding an accountant who wants to make a few bucks. It doesn't seem to violate any rules anywhere.

What I am asking though, is how do I get the bank in Thailand to allow me to send that wire? What form do I need to fill out when I deposit a foreign check in a Thai bank that will allow me to wire out a percentage of that money when it comes time to pay up?

There are regulations that allow this for condos. Can I say the money is for a condo, and then never actually buy a condo? Or is sending the money back out of the country conditional on actually purchasing a dwelling? And would such a form allow me to do a wire on multiple occasions, or only a single transfer?

Is there an equivalent form that says "this money for expenses, but with liabilities".

How does this actually work on the Thai side?

Are you asking what the Thai bank needs to let you wire money out? I can't speak to that. Once the check clears, it is your money. If the Thai bank needs a reason on some form stating the reason the money is being wired out of the country, then the reason would be easy to state and true. I defer to other posters that send large amounts of money internationally and what is required. Since Uncle Sam and the IRS in general demand taxes on any money made anywhere in the world, I have to believe the IRS is accepts forms of payment drawn on foreign country banks!?

I would suggest the debit card or credit card method or an international money order or a simple bank Check if the IRS will accept it.

You can email the IRS and ask them directly.

http://www.irs.gov/help/page/0,,id=133197,00.html

Anecdotally, I mention in passing that Etrade bank/brokerage does NOT accept checks drawn on Non-USA banks. Heck, Etrade doesn't even accept money orders!

[gregb]

If you think you can find an accountant in the US that will accept a swift transfer for you then why are you arguing with us about opening a US Bank account?

Because I'm curious to know if it is possible. Last I heard, USAA was not possible from Thailand. If there is a valid option I would like to know.

I also do not find it credible that you can have an IRA in the US and have no "banking type" relationship there.

Unfortunately, it is true. If I had an account in the US then I could have had the money wired directly and cutting a check would not have been necessary at all.

You have a wealth of information here and you ask a question but want to argue about the answers you get

None of the answers yet will work for my particular situation. Thus, I am trying to see if there are other solutions that will work for me.

[gregb]

Are you asking what the Thai bank needs to let you wire money out?

That is exactly what I am asking. That is the problem that I see.

How do I get the Thai bank to let me wire the appropriate amount of money back out of the country?

[Doc50]

Are you asking what the Thai bank needs to let you wire money out?

That is exactly what I am asking. That is the problem that I see.

How do I get the Thai bank to let me wire the appropriate amount of money back out of the country?

You go to the bank and ask them. Don't try and make it so difficult.

$5K $10K 30K it is not a big deal. Minimum of paper at worst.

[gregb]

Are you asking what the Thai bank needs to let you wire money out?

That is exactly what I am asking. That is the problem that I see.

How do I get the Thai bank to let me wire the appropriate amount of money back out of the country?

You go to the bank and ask them. Don't try and make it so difficult.

$5K $10K 30K it is not a big deal. Minimum of paper at worst.

Without a work permit? And no commercial invoice? Seriously? Any bank will do that?

What is the limit on how much you can send without paper work? I always thought it was impossible.

[Doc50]

Are you asking what the Thai bank needs to let you wire money out?

That is exactly what I am asking. That is the problem that I see.

How do I get the Thai bank to let me wire the appropriate amount of money back out of the country?

You go to the bank and ask them. Don't try and make it so difficult.

$5K $10K 30K it is not a big deal. Minimum of paper at worst.

Without a work permit? And no commercial invoice? Seriously? Any bank will do that?

What is the limit on how much you can send without paper work? I always thought it was impossible.

No it is easy. You can even open a Foreign Currency Deposit Account at HSBC Bank.

Deposit your USD check into it. Pay the IRS with a debit card from same account.

Your money is never even turned into Thai Baht from in to out. You are allowed to do this.

Limit on how much to send, not aware of if there is a limit.

HSBC has the answer to that one.

[lopburi3]

Because I'm curious to know if it is possible. Last I heard, USAA was not possible from Thailand. If there is a valid option I would like to know.

Use Quick Search USAA for a number of recent reports about setting up accounts.

[flying]

Are you asking what the Thai bank needs to let you wire money out?

That is exactly what I am asking. That is the problem that I see.

How do I get the Thai bank to let me wire the appropriate amount of money back out of the country?

Seems what your basically asking is if there is an equivalent to a Thor Tor 3 or FET form,forex confirmation of remittance letter?

Or are they valid only for real estate? All you want is proof you brought $$$ from outside Thailand so you are not troubled by sending large amount out right?

A FET form will be issued for each remittance and exchange of foreign currency with an equivalent of 20,000 USD or more (currently 50,00 USD). For lesser amounts of foreign currencies transferred and exchanged the authorized financial institution inside Thailand can issue a forex confirmation of remittance letter to the foreigner containing all the information according to the Foreign Exchange Transaction Form. Such letter issued by the financial institution can be used as proof of remittance and exchange of foreign currency and withdrawal of Thai baht inside Thailand, similar to the official FET-form.

[gk10002000]

Are you asking what the Thai bank needs to let you wire money out?

That is exactly what I am asking. That is the problem that I see.

How do I get the Thai bank to let me wire the appropriate amount of money back out of the country?

I sent an email to the IRS and here is their response. It looks like you can send them a foreign check. Not sure exactly how the currency will get converted so I guess you should err on the high side.

NOTE: Thank you for your inquiry. Our response to your tax law question appears below. I hope this information has been helpful. If you have a follow-up question or another general tax law question, please return to our web site at: www.irs.gov. Please do not use your "reply" button to respond to this message. More helpful information is provided at the end of this message. Your Question Was:A question came up the other day. What sorts of checks will the IRS accept for payment of taxes? If a a person is overseas, will the IRS accept a check drawn on a foreign bank? If they do, who does the currency conversion calculation? As a follow up, is there a way to bank wire the money to the IRS? I see the bank direct deposit method when getting a refund, but can a similar thing be done if paying taxes? I would think think the IRS would like a direct payment? The Answer To Your Question Is:Thank you for using our service. I apologize for the delay in responding to your question. The IRS will accept checks that are payable in foreign currency. The minimum dollar equivalent must be at least $15 to be accepted for most foreign currencies. The figure is $5 for Canadian bank checks. The conversion is done by the processing agent for foreign payments which at this time is Citibank. There are many options for paying taxes electronically. EFTPS, the Electronic Federal Tax Payment System, is a tax payment system provided free by the U.S. Department of Treasury. The system allows you to pay federal taxes electronically via the Internet or phone 24/7. Visit EFTPS.com to enroll. You can pay by debit or credit over the phone or online through a third party processing service. They do charge a convenience fee for their service. Another option is to make an electronic funds withdrawal when you file your tax return through most tax preparation software packages. Although there are no service charges for using the payment option, please check with your financial institution about any fees it may charge. Taxpayers who file electronically using IRS e-file can e-pay in a single step by authorizing an electronic funds withdrawal (EFW) or by credit or debit card. This is referred to as integrated e-file and e-pay. For more information go to www.irs.gov and enter > e-pay your taxes < in the search box in the upper right corner of the home page. I hope that this information is helpful.