Bringing A Child To The Uk

[KennethReed]

Hi All<BR><BR>my circumstances are that I married my wife 4 years ago. My wife was givem her ILR 2 years ago<BR><BR>My wife has lived in UK off and on since 2004, and has a child from a previous relationship born in 2003 living with her her parents in Thailand, the relationship broke up before the child was born and the childs father has had virtually no contact with the child,<BR><BR>We are considering bringing the child to the UK on a settlement visa to live permanently<BR><BR>reading the settlement rules theres something I don't fully understand the meaning off, it concernes the part that says my wife must have had sole responsibility for brining up the child, does this include her parents by proxy ?, my wife has had constant contact with her family and the child and has sent monet back to her parents regularly, does this count as having sole responsibilty ?<BR> <BR>also i'm sure many posters out there have been in a similar position recently, In financial terms we are resonably stable, don;t live with recourse to public funds and appear to meet all the other criteria, as this is the case could anyone give a considered view of our chances of a successfull application, or give any indication of any problems we need to cater for, I;m assuming we nned to make the application in Thailand, we have family members in Thailand who will be acting on our behalf where this is needed

[KennethReed]

I forgot to mention, what is meant be 'forming an independant family unit' does an 8 year old livng with grandparents constitute an independant family unit ?

[ThaiVisaExpress]

SET7.8 What is sole responsibility?

You have obviously read the above link from the UK/BA ?

A child living with grandparents does not constitute an independent family unit.

Does your wife have sole custody ?

This is the por kor 14 document this in my opinion only demonstrates your wife in Thai terms has sole custody of the child .

Your wife must demonstrate that she makes decisions on the child's upbringing and relatives take direct instructions from the child's parents.

• Financial Support
• Evidence of close contact
• Evidence of any visits

The above should all be included with any application.

Edited February 1, 2011 by ThaiVisaExpress

[Basil B]

I would suggest that if the arrangement made with your wifes parents was only temporary and/or circumstances have changed and they can no longer care for your step daughter, and no other arrangements including with the child's farther and family can be made for looking after her then this should be clearly stated in her visa application.

[Roblpl]

Hello There

I was married in Thsiland a few years ago and in 2009 we decided to bring my wife's 2 children (to two different fathers) over to the UK. Like you I carefully read the rules and eliminated them as being satisfied one by one. The one that I straained over was the sole responsibility one. The rules for getting the child a passport are sort of similalr to that of getting a visa. A Thai child will normally have to have permission from the father to get the passport unless the child has been abandoned. The visa is similar but obviously the next stage higher sso we used the passport process as the first 'test' for success.

We tracked down the fathers, told them what our plans were and they agreed - so if you can get agreement then its much easier. In our case we asked them to meet us at the Amphur office at a pre-defined time, date where they were asked to agree to two thigs. 1. That they did not object to the children travelling to the UK to live and 2. That my wife was the sole custodian of the children. These were then written out at the Amphur office and then signed and stamped officially by the Amphur. Just prior to that we arranged with the Amphur (and a 1000 THB 'fee') to have the children's names changed back to her surname through the Amphur. The 'fee' just speeds things up but its important because it unusual for children not to be in their father's name so it suggests he has never had a substantial part in their lives if they have my wife's name.

These 2 documents together with the change name document we reckoned would carry some weight with the Thai and UK authorities and we were issued with the passport no problems. Then, onto the visa office. During my wife's time in the UK my wife was sending regular money over to Thailand 10000THB per month for about 18 months whilst she was settling into the UK. This was recorded as a standing order through the bank. We organised this by adding my wife's father as a second card holder onto a UK credit and then sent the card out to Thailand. My wife transferred the money to the credit card by standing order and her father withdrew it at the bank. The good things was that it was a faultless trail back to their because, of course, the location of the withdrawal appears on the credit card statement, and their is a faultless record of transactions right through from my wife's bank account.

Sole responsibility can be about financial support as well as emotional support but some key questions need to be answered and dropped into the visa documentation. Who makes decisions in respect of the child's life e.g which school they go to? What financial support has been given? Can you demonstrate in the documentation that the child's father abandoned him/her?

We did all this and the visa for settlement to the UK was issued in about 5 weeks without any further contact from the Embassy.

The por kor 14 is in itself not sufficient to pass the test of sole responsibility. You have to build up a whole life picture of sole responsibility but with a bit of planning it can be done with relatively little pain.

Hope this helps

RobLPL

Edited February 2, 2011 by Roblpl

[KennethReed]

Hi Rob, thanks

at the moment all information is welcome,

in terms of the fathers permission we are going to talk to the father in the next couple of weeks or so, hopefully he will give his full permission, if he doesn't we know we are pretty stuckwe are pretty stuck

yes the sole responsibilty, this does concern me, my wife had been in the U.K. a couple of years before me, the documentation from that period to demonstrate sole responsibility of the child is sketchy to say the least, since we met we have more, but it aint bountiful, she has sent money home occasionally, but mostly it was done via post transfer and we dont have all the reciepts, we do have a number of emails going back over time which i'm hoping will at least provide some evidence, one of the things we are considering getting statements from the childs nursery, school, doctor and religous people stating that my wife was involved in dicussions with them regarding the childs upbringing, I am hoping that these will aid the application

one of the things I am a bit wary is the reason we give for why its taken so long for us to bring the child over, and perhaps more importantly how the authorities will interpret the answert, In reality the child has been with a very good family who care for her and are bringinhg her up well, This is one of the reasons I have been happy not to bring the child over earlier,, howver the authorities could read into that, that perhaps she is better of staying where she is then ! . I really dont know how to progress this one

also one last thing, I have seen on various websites (but not the UK border Agency) reference to a 'dependancy visa' where a dependant can come to U.K for a time prior to applying for a ILR, does anyone know if this is avaailable/preferable etc with a child.

[7by7]

A 'dependancy visa' is more correctly called an adult dependant visa. Obviously it is not available for a child. It also costs £1680, as opposed to the £750 for a child.

Whilst obtaining the father's permission wont hurt, if your wife has sole custody issued by an ampur or a court then it is not required. You say that your wife's relationship with the father ended before her daughter was born; is he named on the birth certificate? If not, then his permission is not required.

Obviously you need to show that you can accommodate and financially support the child without recourse to public funds; but assuming that you can, the main hurdle, as TVE said, is sole responsibility.

Provide a full, detailed explanation of what contact you wife has with her daughter; how often they talk on the phone, how often she visits her in Thailand, how she communicates her desires about her child's upbringing to those currently caring for her etc. Provide as much evidence of this as you can; phone bills, emails, Thai entry stamps in passports etc. Also evidence of monies sent to support her.

The letters from teachers etc. you suggest are also a good idea.

As Rob says, a Por Kor 14 is not, in itself, sufficient to prove sole responsibility. However it does seem that the entry clearance officers do give it some credence, so if your wife's parents can get one it can only help.

The length of separation from their parent is not a reason for refusing a child settlement application. However, as you say, the longer the separation has been the more difficult it can be to show that the parent has been exercising sole responsibility.

[howerski]

Don't be under any illusion that your application will be easy. In addition to the good suggestions by other members above, I would suggest evidence from the school that your wife is making decisions about education. Possible medical evidence if the current carers are not well; ifthere are any behavioural problems because mum is not there .. Letters from local police and "village elders" about their knowledge that the father no longer takes decisions, and of their knowledge of the mother/child relationship; evidence that other close family members cannot look after the child.

The Phor Khor 14 has to be worded in a way which is acceptable to the embassy. There is a sample posted on the Thailand-UK forum.

You also need to know that once the application is in process, the embassy is likely to phone the child/carers and seek to verify that you are telling the truth from anyoneone mentioned in the application.

My overall advice is to take your time on the application, and don't seek to paper over any cracks in your application, just explain why you don't have a particular piece of evidence, or why you did or did not do something. I found it helpful to give a complete life history of my step daughter to put the application in context.

Hope this helps

[Mario2008]

The question is if the OP's wife was married when she had the child or not. If not married, the mother has sole custody by default. (Unless the father went to court to legitimize the child, in which case the mother would have been informed to appear before the court as well).