Sinsod Blues

[Phatcharanan]

My wife was 29, educated and divorced when I married her. Several years ago.

Paid 200,000 sin sot plus 3 baht gold.

The gold was returned to us later, we kept all the money in the envelopes and were given 1 rai of land to build a house. We definitely came out top.

Giving of gold is traditional here.

1,250,000 is WAY over the top.

[Tonto21]

Always funny how many take a bite when these trolls throw a baited-hook in the water

Funny yes, but what beats that is some people waiting for others to Shout TROLL before they do…….Just so there not out there on their own……..Know what I mean?

[welsh1]

Talk about a discount as she has been married once before. That should do the trick, if not tell him the divorce would be cheeper.

Divorce is a lot cheaper ..comes in at 40 baht

[mystwoodcol]

This has got to be a TROLL POST!

Agree. The TV readership falling for this yet again. Seriously, I can't imagine a Thai woman being married for "several years" and not telling any member of her family. And an educated woman? If the OP was going to make stuff up, he should at least try to be a little more realistic.

Maybe it is a Troll post.

As you can see in my first post in the thread, Im a bit critical to the OP.

Anyhow,

sometimes the Troll posts spark some good discussions around.

It is certainly a troll post, no answer for the original poster

But good fun I agree

[TAWP]

Just refuse to do the ceremony.

You already have the cow and the milk.

[sacdog]

I apologise, this is my first post and i didnt know how to physically respond. I appreciate all responses even thoose a bit off. My hair is not green and i dont have meth eyes, im not a troll. this is her first marriage and she is a good wife, mother to my children and daughter. My wife and i are crazy and we did disrespect her family. i was just looking for help with how to negotiate and save face for everyone.

Edited February 2, 2011 by sacdog

[bifftastic]

Well, unless you can speak Thai reasonably fluently, you won't be able to negotiate. It will be your wife that will need to do that. So, speak to her.

The amount's you quoted are just ridiculous, in my opinion.

Seeing as your wife is a good mother to her and your children, she must realise the implications of spending such a huge sum of money on a wedding, and what it would mean in the future (family will, naturally, assume you have a never-ending supply of cash)

Ok so they don't know you're already married but they must know about the children right? Or has she had absolutely no contact with them whatsoever?

As far as negotiating is concerned, it will all depend on what she's been telling them, if she's been telling them you're rich, then that's why they're asking for so much.

If she's been telling them about how different things are in wherever it is you live, and that you've got money but are not rich, then she needs to explain that this large amount would destroy your children's future and make them unable to provide for you in the future, thus crippling the family.

I'm surprised she isn't able to do this, it's her you should be talking to really, not us!

Anyway, assuming you're not a troll, good luck!

[lannarebirth]

If I was in the Op's position I think I'd give about 10% of the price asked for, or 125,000 Baht. I'd tell the family they can have it all or organize a wedding party which they can pay for out of that and keep what is left over. I'd give zero gold. If they want some they can buy it with whatever is left over.

I would only do that much to please my wife. My own opinion is that you owe them nothing if they are in no dire need of something.

Edited February 2, 2011 by lannarebirth

[Martinluka]

I paid mother in law Thb 50000 and buy my misses 5Bath of gold ,Everybody happy

Martin

[craigt3365]

OK guys, no derogatory posts towards Thais. OK? One post already deleted. Whether a troll or not, show some respect.

OP: Suggest you peruse the pinned topic on sin sod at the top of the General forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/85581-sin-sod-an-explanation/

[MJP]

Offer a big round number.

0

[MiG16]

Unless you AND her family are billionaires, the amount requested is over the top.

As others have said - ask your wife to talk to her dad. You let her know what you ate willing to / can afford to give. Offer an amount u really can afford to give away.

In some cases people might want to have more shown. To let others know their daughter is well taken care of. (right or wrong - but that is how things still work here). In that case you may agree to put some more cash/ jewelry on for display. But make sure it is clear what is for show ONLY. And what is the actual amount u can part with.

At wedding - most will now give envelope money for the couple to cover the expenses. But again - discuss with your wife, ask her to let her family know that you both will need those envelopes to pay for the wedding. Let her know u will be willing to pay for shortfall, if any.

You could offer to give the family the amount u receive in excess of wedding bills - as a token gesture of goodwill. Just a suggestion, esp IF u don't need that extra cash.

Good luck

[MiG16]

Forgot to mention that discrepancy between the bills and envelopes are unlikely to be very high - either direction. So you would be looking at covering a small amount only, or handing over a very small amount left after bills are paid

Cheers

[Scully]

If your wife is paying the family then once sinsod is paid she pays them not another bean, tell the family this and tell your wife to pay the sinsod.

If she is a lecturer in a US university she must make a good wage tell her to look after her own family as you need to look after yours.

[SiangDeeMahk]

If she's been telling them about how different things are in wherever it is you live, and that you've got money but are not rich, then she needs to explain that this large amount would destroy your children's future and make them unable to provide for you in the future, thus crippling the family.

DING DING DING!!! Ladies and Gentleman, we have the thread's #1 BEST ANSWER!!

Throwing their own culture right back into their faces.. ALWAYS a winning move, cause it cant be countered.

Simply brilliant.

[PingManDan]

What's the 10 baht gold for?

I totally agree, you are already married, and the Thai wedding is only a formality, to please your wife.:jap:

[Kimera]

Was she previously married before you came along ??.....if so....No Sin Sot...easy

No the question is was she NEW when you married

[XXpate48USA]

What's the 10 baht gold for?

I totally agree, you are already married, and the Thai wedding is only a formality, to please your wife.:jap:

This is a request not from your wife, but from her father! This is total greed and just ignore it! Your wife, you said was already giving them money. You are already married and I am assuming she was not the 18 year old virgin that he wants the money for for a custom from years ago!! This is just greed thinking you are a rich falang and wanting to take advantage of you. I personally had the same request but instead we have paid for many things for her family, parents and nieces and nephews. These type of parents you just have to let it go in one ear and out the other. One thing that many don't realize and that is that this is a request from her father or both mother and father to try and make a nieve falang pay so they can buy a new "whatever" Ignore this request! It is not your wifes request! It was asked of her to get You to give more money to them. Many naive falang's do this because they think it is customary but after she reached a certain age etc or has been married before and lived away from her parents home, this is just garbage! Forget his request and go on and use your money for your wife and your and kids. That father does not need to drain your finances for his leasure. You are not, I am assuming filthy rich and there is no reason to pay him anything. Ask your wife if her father requested this?

Of course she wants to help her parents but it sounds as though she has been all along. Or make arrangements to have the money and baht returned after the ceromony if it really is just a ceromony for show, but many of these types try to keep the money for themselves. This sin sod was never intended, as many think ,for the parents to keep and use as they please. It was supposed to be a measurement of security for your WIFE if something happens to you or a divorce so she can get another start. Not for the parents to buy a new pickup truck!!!....don't do it!.............I paid many things but never gave any sin sod and in this day and age the only ones that do this are the naive falang's that are trying to do what they THINK is customary.

Let him buy his own liquor or whatever. Your hard earned money needs to go to your emediate family. I suspect somehwere down the line, a family member needs som cash to pay for something. This is a way to get it and distribute it to neices and nephews etc. I can't tell you how many times I have had money disapear with so many reason's that I can't count. If you give that, then they will have another reason soon again. It seems , in my experience many parents use thier daughters as a money making machine without reguard for any problems it may cause to you and your wife. They all think we are rich and no amount of talking will convince them you are not. They think you should give your money to them because you have it and they don't!!...simple as that!....don't be stupid. Your wife has already been paying for them you said!...so what's with that??...greed, pure and simple!!....you both are adults now.....so are her parents!!!....ignore it!!

There is, in Thai culture a great amount of pressure put on thai daughters to get money from especially a falang husband. A thai husband would never pay that amount unless they are in the upper status arena, and only if she was never married and you are the first to take her away. And is is to show off etc. If her parents are truly good hearted people they wouldn't try this on you. I am thinking her parents are from central or norheast area of Thailand. They should be satified thier daughter is happy and being taken care of good and they are getting money help every month already. One thing many should learn and that is never let the parents know how much money you have because this will determine how much they want from you. For gods sake, they already are getting money!!!!!....live at least 2-6 hrs away from them also, if you don't want to be always hit up with some imaginary reason, emergency money need!....I am called stinky ifI don't give them when they want, and never has the money I HAVE spent on them been appreciated. It's never ending if you don't end it.

The gold is for show too(and to keep) if you let them!....isn't that nice! they show off with YOUR money!!.it's your wifes money, not for the parents to use!!....keep it and save for you and your family's future. This erks me that this happens so often to falang's....greedy Thai parents..ughhh...and do they care if it makes a riff for you and your wife?....no!...as long as they get the cash!....because you have a money tree that never ends, they think!.........

[tartempion]

Can't quote post #1, thus:

>>My wife, oops, this is secret, is a teacher at a university and gives most of her money to her parents along with health care.

My wife gave up her life to the age of 30 for her parents "well being", paying off land and building a house, together with two other sisters.

She worked for her parents, no relationships, no caring for herself, all for her generators, to thank them for a life given I guess.

1950 in the West we still had a few people having children to work for the parents starting age 15, in Emile Zola's time, working North France's coal mines children starting working age for parents was 8 and working 14h/day

I taught her to turn this around: first take care of yourself, then the ones you love, then the parents.

No sinsod was paid, we do give/help the fuc_kers a little (greedy bastards, never ever inquired if their daughters had a good life, wouldn't care a sec)

[jackr]

always try to undertand the view point of your partners culture but ensure that they attempt to consider yours too - with mutual understanding comes respect.

Sorry, but their won't be any, at least from the Thai side. There is only one culture in all this.

Tell the greedy old bastard to <deleted> OFF.

That is the most tempting retort. At most it should be way under 100k (she is not 18), even if you agree with the concept of it all. If you really don't want to offend, I like the idea of saying it'll ruin the kids lives if you were to pay so much.

[jackr]

Can't quote post #1

They stopped that a while back... just wrap in quotes (third button from right ^^)

The whole concept is just lazy and totally alien in this day n age... kids feeling obliged to look after lazy parents, no love involved. I would top myself before having my kids work for me like that.

[mystwoodcol]

New thread

You said you are meeting your wonderful new in-laws soon

Are you coming to Thailand?

and staying with them?

or are you flying them to you?

and who is paying and putting up sponsorship

If your on your home turf how you treat greedy old Dad will be up to you.

[geriatrickid]

You are 48 and worried about the inlaws? You have a choice to make. What's more important? Paying for your kids education or giving money to a greedy old man? Very bad form. Sin Sod might be a part of Thai culture but does that mean it trumps western culture where a grandparent would never take away from a grandchild's future? Your wife teaches at a uni which means she knows about the cost of a western education. And yet, she would tolerate this money grab attempt?

One word. NO.

[Semper]

Who is wearing the dress at the wedding ??

[GarryP]

You are 48 and worried about the inlaws? You have a choice to make. What's more important? Paying for your kids education or giving money to a greedy old man? Very bad form. Sin Sod might be a part of Thai culture but does that mean it trumps western culture where a grandparent would never take away from a grandchild's future? Your wife teaches at a uni which means she knows about the cost of a western education. And yet, she would tolerate this money grab attempt?

One word. NO.

They are not her kids, they are his so they don't count.

[surayu]

Hello SacDog and welcome to the forum, here is my humble opinion for you, which i hope will develop in a future succesfull forum's newbie family life.

Just tell your wife you fully agree with daddy's request, then tell her you are leaving her to go and stay with him as he showed to have a more sound mind then her, she's thai so i am sure the move will be very happily accepted, tell her you do it for the family and in the mean time tell her to arrange some extra works on the side of her current one, as to accumulate that sum of cash it's not going to be easy with just her job, then you also have to get the gold, probably daddy will let you wear it during the big occasion if you behave yourself, so, do it now and move fast, i am sure you wouldn't regret it, also tell the wifey to be quick as a long waiting time will just spoil the wedding.....i love happy ending stories

[JurgenG]

A friend of mine told me his story lately. He too was not comfortable with the sinsod idea, so a compromise was found. Before getting married he will buy the house where they will live with his wife to show his commitment to the relation, he will of course pay for the wedding and the enveloppes in the guest box will go to the family. It was fair and the wedding went ahead.The marriage was very nice in a top Bangkok hotel, the family had a good deal the enveloppes were worth a few hundred thousand bahts but as his wife explained, her parents had paid enveloppe for friends and relatives for years, they were just kind of getting their money back. Everything was fine.

Then last year two major things happen. The younger sister got married. they had a very nice engagement party where the sinsod was given. The groom who is not so wealthy had to borrow gold from his boss but everything was returned after the ceremony. The wedding took place in a nice place . Just before the end , the boxes were opened, from the amount collected the newly married couple paid the reception bills and kept the balance. The groom wasn't very rich so my friend didn't really mind that he had to pay everything and got noithing while his new brother in law ...

But the worst came a couple of month later. My friend and his wife had to fill some paper, insurance ... for some new investments they're doing when he realized the house has been put under the mother name. The wife told him it was just part of the original agreement but she didn't tell him because she was afraid he will get upset ... After they left the lawyer, my friend went back to work and went back home ... three days later !

He knows his wife feels terrible about the all story but she went along anyway ... He told me he's not so sure if their relation can survive his deep feeling to have been screwed. He can't see his mother in law anymore without feeling like spitting in her face.

He told me the worst is he has now the best relation in the world with his father in law who turned out to be a very straight guy. I realize I forgot to say that the father was at the beginning opposed to the marriage and was asking an outrageously high sinsod when the mother in law stepped in to to broker the deal .....

[surayu]

He can't see his mother in law anymore without feeling like spitting in her face.

Just be polite and tell her after you do it that it's either:

1) A way to disinfect her

2) Our way to give the "bless"

3) Just making sure Buddha will understand you wanted to be reincarnated as a King Cobra in your next life, that's all.

:jap:

[CHdiver]

Just tell him you will accept the Thai Tradition of Sin Sot if he agrees to the American Tradition of the Bride Father paying for the wedding (the original in America of course), if he agrees then send him a Bill of xxxx Baht (if you have to, include the wedding ring)and tell him thats what he has to pay you, after you deducted the Sinsot. Then see where it goes from there.

[Latindancer]

Just tell him you will accept the Thai Tradition of Sin Sot if he agrees to the American Tradition of the Bride Father paying for the wedding (the original in America of course), if he agrees then send him a Bill of xxxx Baht (if you have to, include the wedding ring)and tell him thats what he has to pay you, after you deducted the Sinsot. Then see where it goes from there.

We have a winner !

Best answer yet.