Test Tube Baby?

[action]

Hello,

My wife and I tried having a baby for over a year. Month after month after month she would still have her period.

We spoke with a doctor at Pattaya Bangkok hospital who said the first thing to try was medicine to make HER more fertile. This was done first because it was the least expensive 'step' in finding out what the problem was. If this didn't work checking my sperm was the second step.

2 weeks of taking the meds and she was pregnant. We were so happy. The Doctor at Bangkok Pattaya confirmed the home test. We had heard good things about Sa-mit-a-veg hospital in Siricha so we thought we would go to them for the pregnancy. We went for a check up and during the ultrasound the doctor said, "This pregnancy is not healthy, she will miscarry for sure. You must take the embryo out before it attaches. If she doesn't miscarry in one week come back for surgery."..... dam_n...

A week later we go back and he does another ultrasound. After some time he finds a healthy featus but it is in her fallopean tube. There is some name for this condition and in the past, it meant sure death for both mother and baby. Emergency surgery called for that night to remove the entire fallopean tube. I'm told there is no way to remove the featus without taking out the plumbing. During surgery I am called into the operating room to find out she has 2 featuses, one in each tube! My wife is cut wide open and the doctor is holding something in his hands saying "SEE?" I needed to give the okay to remove both tubes. Uh.... yeah?

All said and done and the wife is fine to this day. Oh, by the way this all took place about 3 years ago. Anyhow, we were told the only way we could have a baby ourselves was to extract eggs from her, fertilize them in a lab with my sperm and then put them back in her. One Doctor told us this was 40% sucsessful. I guess this is called IVF or more loosly called a test tube baby? Regardless of the name, we're ready to give it a go.

So now for my question. Does anyone have any experience with this (In Thailand) and if so can you recommend a hospital or doctor (or tell us one to avoid)? We have consulted with Pattaya-Bangkok and Sa-mit-a-veg in Siricha. I saw a billboard in Pattaya for Pri-a-thai hospital in Siricha saying they have an "Infertility center". At this point I have nothing to go on and could pick a name from a hat. We are able and willing to travel to Bangkok (and beyond) and we are not looking to save money here. We have wanted a baby for a long time and do not want to go through another failed attempt. We realize what our chances are, but I am looking for someone with some first hand experience to help us make the right decisions.

We thank you in advance.

[wordchild]

The most famous infertility/ ivf clinic in Thailand is Jetanin on Chid Lom (used by the family we cant mention apparantly) and its farang oriented offshoot Superior ART near the British Embassy on Wireless. the feedback i have had from friends who went there was not positive , expensive and a bit production line like. The same couple (after much research) ended up useing a place called Navabutr (i think thats the name) which is located in the Life Centre at the top (Rama4 end) of Sathorn they had much better experience there. it is basicaly a private clinic offshoot of Chula Med School ivf/fertility unit, which has a good reputation, might be worth giving them a try

[wordchild]

BTW there are many people who have been in your situation who end up with a successful pregnancy, dont lose heart!

[saakura]

Sir, pardon my ignorance if it was your attempt at humour, but you should be correctly referring to them as Samitivej and Phaya Thai hospitals. Anyway, to get back on topic, please visit the Navabutr IVF center on the 2nd floor in Life Center (exit to South Sathorn road from Lumpini MRT station will bring you out into this building). Good doctors, good location and reasonable pricing (expect to pay about 200K for usual infertility problems). Doctors give appointments based only on date, not time. On the date of appointment, it is first come first served. And yes, doctors do not always come on time due to various reasons and sometimes need to wait for hours.

[action]

Hi Wordchild,

Thanks for the advice,

What was the outcome of the family you knew who went to Navabutr? I found them on the web but it's all in Thai.

http://www.nawabutr.com/public/index.php

I'll have the wife look it over. Do you have any idea what the cost of the entire procedure is? I was told around 300,000 THB from the places I visited.

"Production line like" actually sounds like a good thing to me. They've obviously done it many times and have a system down. To me that sounds like "They know what they are doing" Too many times in Thailand I've been told "CAN DO" then later find out it's the first time they've ever tried...

Actually, I'd rather be treated like crap, ripped off for too much money and end up with a beautiful healthy baby than be treated like High Society in Thailand, save a few bucks and not end up with the kid. I'm only interested in results. Hope that's cool...

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Also, in case it makes any difference,

I am Farhang, 33 years old. She is Thai 30 years old.

She has had one baby already. Our 5 year old daughter who was delivered via C-section. I am not the biological father, but understand that the pregnancy was normal from begining to end. She had no problem getting pregnant before and the baby was delivered just fine.

[action]

Saakura,

Pardon my ignorance... I was not trying to be funny at all. Just trying to sound out the name. Next time I won't be so lazy and I'll look up the proper spelling online. I appreciate you giving the correct names for me and others.

Thank you even more for the advice, we will look into this place for sure.

[wordchild]

in addition i am sure all the major BKK hospitals offer IVF services Prob the best bet is for you and your other 1/2 to visit various units i see which you feel most comfortable with.

[saakura]

Saakura,

Pardon my ignorance... I was not trying to be funny at all. Just trying to sound out the name. Next time I won't be so lazy and I'll look up the proper spelling online. I appreciate you giving the correct names for me and others.

Thank you even more for the advice, we will look into this place for sure.

Sir, i wish you both the very best and pray that you become proud parents of a healthy and bonny baby!! Actually, IVF is these days quite a common procedure and does not really require very great skills. It is routinely practiced in so many hospitals in all countries. And equipment is more or less the same. So, in my opinion, you may choose a suitable hospital which is convenient for travel, within your budget and where you are comfortable with doctors.

What is more important is the quality and quantity of your sperm and her eggs. Sperm analysis is very simple and inexpensive. If that is ok, next step is to check her eggs (not analysed in a lab like sperm, but only check if the ovaries release eggs on time and observe size and number by ultrasound, only 1-3 eggs released per cycle as opposed to millions of sperm released at each ejaculation.) If these basic checks are ok, they will put her on medication to force her ovaries to mature more eggs and then collect them on the day these eggs are naturally released (more medications to induce this process). Once collected, these eggs are mixed your sperm. Then wait to see how many of the eggs get fertilised by the sperm. Normally about 4-6 good quality fertilised eggs if all goes well. Then the doctor will decide which of these and how many are to be implanted in her womb. More medications to make the fertilised egg/s happy in the womb. Hopefully one would survive or you may have twins or even triplets!!

Everything can be controlled by science but only to a certain point. No, i am not preaching religion. Genuine love and affection between partners, warm family ties, no abnormal work pressures and stress contribute in a very major way. IVF success rate after all this is about 40-50%, but do not get disheartened by such statitistics. Good luck to both of you!!

[sinbin]

Hi Wordchild,

Thanks for the advice,

What was the outcome of the family you knew who went to Navabutr? I found them on the web but it's all in Thai.

http://www.nawabutr....ublic/index.php

I'll have the wife look it over. Do you have any idea what the cost of the entire procedure is? I was told around 300,000 THB from the places I visited.

"Production line like" actually sounds like a good thing to me. They've obviously done it many times and have a system down. To me that sounds like "They know what they are doing" Too many times in Thailand I've been told "CAN DO" then later find out it's the first time they've ever tried...

Actually, I'd rather be treated like crap, ripped off for too much money and end up with a beautiful healthy baby than be treated like High Society in Thailand, save a few bucks and not end up with the kid. I'm only interested in results. Hope that's cool...

I can personally vouch for the Nawabutr Clinic in Bangkok. My wife and I used it twice, resulting in a daughter and then twin boy and girl the second time around. It's relatively cheap, if not the cheapest fertility clinic. See my post on this forum regarding vasectomy.

[Sheryl]

[.........Once collected, these eggs are mixed your sperm. Then wait to see how many of the eggs get fertilised by the sperm. Normally about 4-6 good quality fertilised eggs if all goes well. Then the doctor will decide which of these and how many are to be implanted in her womb.

Actually how many fertilized eggs to implant is something you should discuss and weigh in on, don't leave it to the doctor.

There is a trade off and it goes like this:

Implant more = greater chance of pregnancy at the first try, but also much greater chance of multiple pregnancy (twins. triplets, sometimes even 4 or more). Multiple pregnancy in turn = risk of premature birth & other complications not to mention the challenges of raising them.

Implant fewer = greater chance you'll have to do this more than once (more cost) but less risk of multiple births.

At this point you are so focused on just wanting to successfully conceive, multiple births may not seem like a big issue but they can carry significant risks (for both mom & babies) and the challenge of raising several babies at once (often born premature at that) is not to be taken lightly.

So consider this matter carefully. Doctor should be able to help you through this decision process and to estimate for you the odds of having multiple birth if X number embryos implanted, odds of success and associated costs if you opt to be more conservative etc.

People who know they can't afford more than one shot sometimes opt for maximum chance of pregnancy i.e. implant as many embryos as look viable but if you can afford to be more conservative it may actually save you money, heartache and expense down the line.

Anyhow discuss clearly with your doctor.

[jsflynn603]

When I first arrived in Chiang Mai I stayed at a lovely guest house called Baan Hanibah which is owned by a Gynecologist. In discussion with him he commented that the hospital that he is affiliated with just opened a fertility clinic and I believe that he commented that IVF with ICI (Intercytoplasmic Injection (where a sperm is injected into the egg) cost about 5,000US per "round." If interested call Baan Hanibah (I'm sure you can find them on the internet with a search) and ask for the phone number of the doctor's practice.

A bit of a side comment: As a Registered Nurse, there is no more despicable an area of medicine, in my humble opinion, then fertility clinics. In my experience I have found them to be often misleading, and downright dishonest. I'm speaking only about American fertility clinics here and it may or may not be the same in Thailand.

However the comment means little to you and your wife because you have had a child and you are both under the age of 35. The quality of her eggs and your sperm most likely good since she has conceived three times (one child, and two ectopic pregnancies), so please don't let this bother you. The numbers quoted for your age are correct and you stand to have about a 33-45% success rate, but I'll add it in case my opinion is of value to others who might read this thread:

In America the modus operendi of many fertility clinics is downright sleazy, especially related to couples where women are over age 40. Typically many clinics will offer the couple profuse assurances of "can do." Then the tests begin, meds are used, and a whopping bill adds up. Sadly, since the ratio of IVF live births to implantations drop rapidly as the woman's age progresses, after all the tests are done and the couple is excited, all too frequently a bomb gets dropped.

It goes like this.

"Well, we have analyzed your case and have decided that it is our recommendation to utilize a donor egg."

The astonished couple replies: "But we want 'our" baby, and you told us that we stood a very good chance of success, we don't want a donor egg."

The clinician responds: "Well, of course that would be ideal, but you realize that under the circumstances you might have to undergo many IVF rounds, and still not conceive."

The frustrated couple (and lucky couple since they have adequate assets) replies: "We are willing to take that chance."

So things proceed, but shortly the couple is told that the clinic has decided that the couple is not appropriately matched with the services that the clinic offers, but here is a list of other clinics that they may try. "Good bye" (In this case the goodbye means both "go away," and say goodbye to all the money you have spent."

For couples where the female is approaching or exceeding age 40, this appears to be an all too common practice, and frankly it's disgusting.

Search IVF rates and you will find many articles that talk about how clinics "set things up" so that they have a "high success rate," and the above is one way to ensure it. Therefore IVF success rates are often not to be relied on. In fact I'm inclined to believe that some fertility clinics that show success rates with rapid drop-off as the woman's age increases, are in fact, the best clinics--they are the honest ones.

[ianhardy]

I would recommend Jetanin and their other clinic Superior ART. Ask for Dr. Somjate Manipalviratn (http://www.thaisuper...nt_id=5&item=47 ) ; you can use my name as a reference.

R. Ian Hardy MD PhD

Medical Director

Fertility Centers of New England

[action]

Hello Friends,

I would like to post an update on my situation.

My wife and I chose to go to the Nawatubr Clinic in Lumpini.

We started the process about 6 weeks ago. First my wife got an ultrasound to confirm she had a healthy uterus and ovaries. The whole process is basically timed on the female cycle so we had to wait for my wife to have her period to begin. The second visit was to discuss the results of the ultrasound, get a blood test from her and collect a semen sample from me.

We both checked out to be perfect candidates for an IVF pregnancy. Yeah!! About 2 weeks after that, half way through her cycle, we started the nasal spray hormones for my wife. She sprayed in her nose 6 times per day for two weeks. She was told to come back on the second day of her next period which we did.

That day she had another blood test to check hormone levels. Everything checked out so she started the injections. The nasal spray got reduced to 4 times per day and now everyday we inject another hormone into her belly. This is done with a needle and a little injection tool that resembles a pen. Once we started this, we have had to go back to the clinic about twice a week for blood tests.

Today (Saturday June 4, 2011) we were at the clinic for the 6^th time. Our blood test was “very good” and my wife has 9 eggs developing inside of her. We have an appointment on Monday, and they said we should be able to extract the eggs on Wednesday.

Overall I am very pleased with everything so far. We have very high hopes and feel positive we will be pregnant soon. I thank all of you very much for recommending the clinic.

I will post again with our doctor’s name and updates. He seems very qualified and speaks perfect English.

A few things I can warn people about is that they have no appointment schedule and no payment forecast.

We are told when to come back, but like others have said it’s a first come first serve basis. We sometimes spend hours sitting and waiting for our name to come up. The doctor does seem to push people through as fast as he can, and they keep strange schedules working only a few hours a week.

We asked many times how much we would need to pay for each step of the process, and how the process would go. All they could tell us is , “About 150,000 to 180,000 for the entire process.” But how much cash to bring to the next appointment is anyone’s guess. I didn’t know if the total sum would be spread over the whole pregnancy or required all at once. After each appointment we go to the counter and I’m not sure if it’s going to be 2000 baht or 20000 baht.

I plan to put together a history of each of our visits with what was done and how much it cost each time. That information doesn’t seem to be available so hopefully it will help someone else.

Thanks again to everyone who posted. Wish us luck!

[action]

Hello all,

Thanks to those of you who asked me for an update.

Today is July 20th and we just found out today that we have one healthy baby inside of my wife. We transfered 3 embryos in her. Below is a history of our visits and what we had to pay each time. Please understand that this is only our experience and everyone's process could be different.

April 23 - ultrasound - 1,600

April 26 - Semen Analysis / blood test - 2,350

May 3 - nasal spray - 2,500

May 29 - self injections / blood test - 14,126

June 1 - self injections / blood test - 12,871

June 4 - ultrasound to check egg growth / self injections - 9,233

June 6 - ultrasound to check egg growth - 3,800

June 8 - Egg retrieval under anesthetic - 63,563

June 13 - Embryos Transfer - 22,897

July 3 - Blood Test / injections - 2,430

July 20 - Ultrasound Fetus - 2,750

Total thus far 138,120 THB.

We will continue to go to the clinic until the 12th week of pregnancy. Then we can use the care of a local hospital.

My wife was put under anesthetic for the egg retrieval, but was not put under for the embryo transfer. We did have to spend the whole day at the clinic though. They told us the process of implantation would take us 30 minutes, but then when we were done they explained that she had to lay in a bed at the clinic for 6 hours. Don't plan on doing much on the day of a visit.

We are so thankful to the clinic, to those of you who led us there, our doctor, the nurses and everyone and everything else that has helped to bless us with this success.

[beano2274]

Thanks very much for the update and the prices. My wife and I are currently just thinking over the whole thing as well, so this information is well appreciated.

Good luck with the baby

[saakura]

Hello all,

Thanks to those of you who asked me for an update.

Today is July 20th and we just found out today that we have one healthy baby inside of my wife. We transfered 3 embryos in her. Below is a history of our visits and what we had to pay each time. Please understand that this is only our experience and everyone's process could be different.

April 23 - ultrasound - 1,600

April 26 - Semen Analysis / blood test - 2,350

May 3 - nasal spray - 2,500

May 29 - self injections / blood test - 14,126

June 1 - self injections / blood test - 12,871

June 4 - ultrasound to check egg growth / self injections - 9,233

June 6 - ultrasound to check egg growth - 3,800

June 8 - Egg retrieval under anesthetic - 63,563

June 13 - Embryos Transfer - 22,897

July 3 - Blood Test / injections - 2,430

July 20 - Ultrasound Fetus - 2,750

Total thus far 138,120 THB.

We will continue to go to the clinic until the 12th week of pregnancy. Then we can use the care of a local hospital.

My wife was put under anesthetic for the egg retrieval, but was not put under for the embryo transfer. We did have to spend the whole day at the clinic though. They told us the process of implantation would take us 30 minutes, but then when we were done they explained that she had to lay in a bed at the clinic for 6 hours. Don't plan on doing much on the day of a visit.

We are so thankful to the clinic, to those of you who led us there, our doctor, the nurses and everyone and everything else that has helped to bless us with this success.

Hey Action, get ready for the most fantastic journey of your life, feeling your baby grow inside of his mothers womb. Many happy times ahead!! But ask her to be very careful for the first 4 months. Maybe you should seriously think of being under their care for a few more weeks beyond the 12th. Wish you good luck!!

[sinbin]

But how much cash to bring to the next appointment is anyone's guess. I didn't know if the total sum would be spread over the whole pregnancy or required all at once. After each appointment we go to the counter and I'm not sure if it's going to be 2000 baht or 20000 baht.

The Nawabutr Clinic charges after every course of treatment. I agree that one never know the amount until after each course. Because of that, there is access to ATM machines where you can get the money required. They prefer cash and actually give 2% discount for it. Card payment are also accepted. My wife and I used this clinic twice, resulting in 3 children. The underlined bit above is explained before treatment starts. Perhaps your missus forgot to tell you ?