Thai-Cambodia Border Close Indefinitely As Conflicts Continue

[OZinBKK]

I'm not trying to be a know it all, but I looked the border argument up on Wiki and it says that Thailand proof read and approved the submission (by Cambodian) of UNESCO world heritage listing for the disputed temple as a Cambodian icon not Thai - I don't understand how they can dispute the land after the fact?

And before anyone burns me, I know this is not the only land in dispute, but it seems to be what hits all the headlines... In saying that feel free to burn me on what I have said above, just like WIKI, I'm not always right

Edited February 8, 2011 by OZinBKK

[FarangGirlinKorat]

yes, title needs to be changed ASAP to to "close in some areas" or something more truthful.

If you need to go to aranyaprathet/poi pet in the near future, i would suggest calling first: 03723-1131

that is the number for thai immigration at poi pet

if they don't answer (sometimes they are very busy), you can try calling immigration for korat province: 0-4437-5139 (in dan kwian) although they don't generally don't seem to know what is going on either. we probably get news faster here on TV than they do at immigration.

[Netfan]

I'm not trying to be a know it all, but I looked the border argument up on Wiki and it says that Thailand proof read and approved the submission (by Cambodian) of UNESCO world heritage listing for the disputed temple as a Cambodian icon not Thai - I don't understand how they can dispute the land after the fact?

And before anyone burns me, I know this is not the only land in dispute, but it seems to be what hits all the headlines... In saying that feel free to burn me on what I have said above, just like WIKI, I'm not always right

I could be wrong, but wasn't this deal one of the things that led to Thaksin's downfall...his FM signed the agreement as some sort of business related deal and the opposition freaked.

[mrdome]

Hey guys and girls, I have plans (tickets purchased) to fly into BKK on the 16th and into Siem Reap immediately afterward. Then I have about 5 days in Southern Cambodia, and return to BKK after that. Should I stick with my plan, or immediately start changing my plans?

Thanks!

I'd say stick with yours and I'll stick w. mine (crossing at Aran/Poipet on 20th). Angkor might be a lot less crowded and that is not a bad prospect. Cambodia cannot afford to lose the tourist $$s.

You would be surprised as it is known that the entry fees of Angkor are going into private pockets, not the Country's tresorie. Sokimex is the great beneficiary of the entry fees (but the world community is paying for the restoration)... and who cares about Sokimex in the Khmer Government apart from its cronies? For them: money enough... eventually sell one of the Lexusses in case there is a need... start with the one the housemaid is driving!

A. I'm not surprised as I knew this.

B. There is way more to tourist $$s than just Angkor entry fees.

[20member09]

Just another example of the powers to be saying one thing and then doing another. It is getting to be like little children playing when they do not get things to go the way they want, they then want to stop playing and go home.

Maybe someday they will learn to grow up, and follow the rules and the normal ways of doing business and handling disputes.

[creck]

yes, title needs to be changed ASAP to to "close in some areas" or something more truthful.

If you need to go to aranyaprathet/poi pet in the near future, i would suggest calling first: 03723-1131

that is the number for thai immigration at poi pet

if they don't answer (sometimes they are very busy), you can try calling immigration for korat province: 0-4437-5139 (in dan kwian) although they don't generally don't seem to know what is going on either. we probably get news faster here on TV than they do at immigration.

Yes the Thai news is faster and better on TV than most other sources. If anyone gets it wrong someone else can correct it. We have eyes and ears everywhere.

And it comes with jokes - what can be better?

If you are in the thick of it then you are the eyes and ears - how can others tell you what is happening better than you can see yourself?

The main problem comes from people who should know better than to believe what the army says. They killed 60 Cambodians destroyed 10 tanks and lost nobody on the first day. On the second day the Thai captives were returned.

If a TV poster says the border is open; it very likely is.

If a TV poster says the monkeys are throwing coconuts at the Cambodians; have a good laugh.

[CallumW]

Just had 5 RTAF helicopters fly over in formation, that's more than I have seen all together in the last 3 years!

[dumball]

I read a news report on the skirmishing from Asia news , they mentioned that most of the claims from both sides are untrue and more or less ,should be taken with a pinch of salt . They also appeared quite adamant that the aggressors were Thai and the whole shebang was a cover up for thier incompetance with thier own internal affairs and constant harrasment from the yellow shirts to attack the Cambodians .

My own thoughts are that no good or benifit of worth will come for either side , once the dust has settled , the dead buried or consumed by fire , the original named reason will still need to be settled in an amicable manner , this will only be achieced in my mind provided an unbiased mediator is called in to keep the apposed children in line and on subject with all possible current facts brought to the table .

A diabolicall fiasco to suit the whims of the rich and powerfull hanging on to thier corrupt control of the downtrodden masses .

[VBF]

Maybe someday they will learn to grow up, and follow the rules and the normal ways of doing business and handling disputes.

I hate to tell you......... these ARE "the normal ways of doing business and handling disputes" in this part of the world ! TIT!

[ryladie99]

How are the Thai politicians with large investments in Cambodia going to get their money out?

Good question and this is not the first time Thailand has her conflict with Cambodia. Sad, I received the UN e-mail and did not have time to read but, hope that the politicians are doing something?? The poor people are the most suffering from this action. Next time just have a fight in Bangkok between Cambodian and Thai army members. Leave the poor citizens alone and life will be alright. I wonder why can both concentrate on business like their neighbor Vietnam, she is doing so well...

[Just1Voice]

What I find somewhat "amusing" (if that can be applied here) is the political "brinkmanship" being used by the crafty Hun Sen to make his counterpart look rather stupid in the eyes of the international community. For a few months now Hun Sen has been offering to allow the UN, or other international bodies, as well as ASEAN, come in and mediate between Cambodia & Thailand on the border issue. Maybe he is sincere, as he knows he has a good chance of winning if that happens, but also because he is also well aware of the well know Thai arrogance and attitude that makes them think they are vastly superior to anyone, especially their lowly cousin neighbors, and will, and have, claim they don't or need "outsiders" meddling in Thai affairs. Which actually makes them look like the bully who has something to hide and doesn't want it brought out into the light of day.

The day after the first conflict, H.S. fired off a letter to UNESCO, and then to the UN Security Council asking for UN Peacekeepers. Kinda caught Thailand with their pants down, as I don't think they were expecting this move. So, Thailand then had to hurry and submit their own letters, with their version of things, naturally, but were playing "catch up" in the blame game. However, the crux of the issue is that while H.S. has asked for UN Peacekeepers to set up a buffer zone, Thailand is still claiming it's a "bilateral issue we can solve", and is discouraging outside mediators, including ASEAN of which they are a member. Now the international community is asking: "Why won't Thailand allow a 3rd party to mediate, including ASEAN? What are they afraid of? What do they have to hide?" All in all, not looking good for the L.O.S.

Thailand keeps claiming the border issue isn't resolved around the temple, but if you read the judgment by the ICJ, and do so with an open mind looking for the truth, you'll see the border issue WAS resolved when it was decided by the court that the French map (which Thailand had 50 years to contest and never did) was the OFFICIAL map, and that it CLEARLY showed the border between the two countries in this area. Thailand lost the case, and while they had 7 years, I think it is, to appeal, they didn't bother. Why? Did they think, or know, that legally they didn't have a case and a second loss of "face" would be to much for their delicate egos? The border issue was clearly and definitively settled by the ICJ in their ruling. The only one "disputing" it is Thailand. And their refusal to allow it to go to another international body, or even ASEAN, is their fear that, once again, Cambodia would win, Thailand would lose, and the thought of that gives them nightmares at night.

[thaihome]

What I find somewhat "amusing" (if that can be applied here) is the political "brinkmanship" being used by the crafty Hun Sen to make his counterpart look rather stupid in the eyes of the international community. For a few months now Hun Sen has been offering to allow the UN, or other international bodies, as well as ASEAN, come in and mediate between Cambodia & Thailand on the border issue. Maybe he is sincere, as he knows he has a good chance of winning if that happens, but also because he is also well aware of the well know Thai arrogance and attitude that makes them think they are vastly superior to anyone, especially their lowly cousin neighbors, and will, and have, claim they don't or need "outsiders" meddling in Thai affairs. Which actually makes them look like the bully who has something to hide and doesn't want it brought out into the light of day.

The day after the first conflict, H.S. fired off a letter to UNESCO, and then to the UN Security Council asking for UN Peacekeepers. Kinda caught Thailand with their pants down, as I don't think they were expecting this move. So, Thailand then had to hurry and submit their own letters, with their version of things, naturally, but were playing "catch up" in the blame game. However, the crux of the issue is that while H.S. has asked for UN Peacekeepers to set up a buffer zone, Thailand is still claiming it's a "bilateral issue we can solve", and is discouraging outside mediators, including ASEAN of which they are a member. Now the international community is asking: "Why won't Thailand allow a 3rd party to mediate, including ASEAN? What are they afraid of? What do they have to hide?" All in all, not looking good for the L.O.S.

Thailand keeps claiming the border issue isn't resolved around the temple, but if you read the judgment by the ICJ, and do so with an open mind looking for the truth, you'll see the border issue WAS resolved when it was decided by the court that the French map (which Thailand had 50 years to contest and never did) was the OFFICIAL map, and that it CLEARLY showed the border between the two countries in this area. Thailand lost the case, and while they had 7 years, I think it is, to appeal, they didn't bother. Why? Did they think, or know, that legally they didn't have a case and a second loss of "face" would be to much for their delicate egos? The border issue was clearly and definitively settled by the ICJ in their ruling. The only one "disputing" it is Thailand. And their refusal to allow it to go to another international body, or even ASEAN, is their fear that, once again, Cambodia would win, Thailand would lose, and the thought of that gives them nightmares at night.

Except for some hard core nationalist, you will find that generally the Thai public is ok with Temple being inside the Cambodian border. The current dispute is not really about that, but because it is the simplistic view that is what most international media portray it has.

The issue is basically twofold.

First, it was agreed that Cambodia and Thailand would jointly apply for UNESCO Heritage Site status for the temple. Cambodia ignored that and applied unilaterally. Thailand said ok, but the development plan must be done jointly. The UNESCO Heritage Commission agreed and conditionally gave the site heritage status pending the joint development plan. Cambodia then submitted a unilateral development plan which was rejected by UNESCO.

Second issue is that despite that rejection Cambodia began implementing the development plan, which included building a road within the 4 sq km next to the temple where the border as not been fully demarcated.

TH

Edited February 8, 2011 by thaihome

[asiawatcher]

What about flights? No problem I guess?

... seriously?...

[creck]

Just had 5 RTAF helicopters fly over in formation, that's more than I have seen all together in the last 3 years!

Ok thats news... But

where are you and which way were they going? after bugs bunny?

[gbswales]

How are the Thai politicians with large investments in Cambodia going to get their money out?

Well failing appeals to sanity, consideration of the population and of the unimportance of a few old stones ..... this is the motivation for politicians to sort it out.

I cannot believe in 2011 that borders are stil so important to people - the sooner these man made boundaries, which are more archaic than the old temple, dissapear the better in my view.

[Suiken]

BKK flights ain't affected at all right? I have a flight out of BKK this week

[CockneyGit]

Just give him a few carrots (vegetables) .... he would burrow his way under the ground and get up on the other side .... and say..... 'what's up doc'.

No need for arms. Just hire Bugs Bunny.

YAY!

Bugs Bunny for PM..!!

[SiriusBlack1]

At first I thought it was strange that the army, rather than the government, announced the border closing.

And then I remembered...

[Kilgore Trout]

The border is closed in SOME areas.

The Army Region 2 announced last night that the Thai-Cambodian border in some areas will be shut down indefinitely.

The Thai Army Region 2 announced the closure of the Thai-Cambodian border in the areas of Sakaeo, Sisaket, Surin, Trad, and Chanthaburi provinces last night, specifically at the chong jom, prasat ta kway and prasat ta muan tom border points.

I think we got that.

What are the chances of them declaring war on each other (reminds me of January 2003, when this almost happened - anyone remember that?)? Small to non-existent, I hope.

I do, I was living in Sihanoukville at the time, there was a Cambodian guy who taught Thai and when we saw eachother we would speak in Thai. When the madness started I remember running in to him and him telling me not to speak Thai. Pretty tense; also I remember you couldn't get any decent chicken, as the good stuff came from Thailand. Cambodian chicken has no meat

[bangon04]

Just had 5 RTAF helicopters fly over in formation, that's more than I have seen all together in the last 3 years!

They must have had a delivery of spare parts recently....

[whybother]

How are the Thai politicians with large investments in Cambodia going to get their money out?

Well failing appeals to sanity, consideration of the population and of the unimportance of a few old stones ..... this is the motivation for politicians to sort it out.

I cannot believe in 2011 that borders are stil so important to people - the sooner these man made boundaries, which are more archaic than the old temple, dissapear the better in my view.

So you wouldn't mind if I came and built a house on your property? I mean, after all, borders are just archaic.

[tragickingdom]

And here we see another proxy war fought by the Abhisit government for the PAD. If Thailand was si sure about its case, why don't they want to bring the demarcation issue in front of the International Court of Justice. Is it because the French map is signed by the de facto owners of Thailand?

There were times before a coup took place that all was quiet. That people in Sisaket were making money from the visitors. There was a time when in the memorandum of understanding land was swapped on both sides of the border were nobody lived anyhow and that even the oil exploration was agreed on. Now Thailand is a land of losers targeting an old Hindu temple with only one thing in mind. "If we cannot have it, we will take care that you cannot have it either". The only reason Thai soldiers are shooting is because Abhisit and his cronies do not want to held elections. They will surely lose the elections just as they lost them 3 years ago. For now it means that they have to keep the PAD on board. But the PAD people maybe be economic terrorists they have no brain damage. The PAD knows that Abhisit and his political friends are only prolonging their stay in order to make as much money as possible. Elections are expensive, (edited out/libelous claim)* The Abhisit government is more corrupt, more murky and more violent than any other government since 1990.

Edited February 8, 2011 by Scott
Libelous claim

[whybother]

And here we see another proxy war fought by the Abhisit government for the PAD. If Thailand was si sure about its case, why don't they want to bring the demarcation issue in front of the International Court of Justice. Is it because the French map is signed by the de facto owners of Thailand?

<snip>

The maps weren't signed by the Thais. They were attached to previously signed treaty documents.

[Screws]

The Abhisit government is more corrupt, more murky and more violent than any other government since 1990.

Evidence?

[mrdome]

The border is closed in SOME areas.

The Army Region 2 announced last night that the Thai-Cambodian border in some areas will be shut down indefinitely.

The Thai Army Region 2 announced the closure of the Thai-Cambodian border in the areas of Sakaeo, Sisaket, Surin, Trad, and Chanthaburi provinces last night, specifically at the chong jom, prasat ta kway and prasat ta muan tom border points.

I think we got that.

What are the chances of them declaring war on each other (reminds me of January 2003, when this almost happened - anyone remember that?)? Small to non-existent, I hope.

I do, I was living in Sihanoukville at the time, there was a Cambodian guy who taught Thai and when we saw eachother we would speak in Thai. When the madness started I remember running in to him and him telling me not to speak Thai. Pretty tense; also I remember you couldn't get any decent chicken, as the good stuff came from Thailand. Cambodian chicken has no meat

Thais were running for their lives back then and everything Thai got smashed in PP. I remember the Cambodian embassy near Lumpini park was only spared from the same fate due to cool-headed royal intervention.

[FarangGirlinKorat]

Just had 5 RTAF helicopters fly over in formation, that's more than I have seen all together in the last 3 years!

i am in korat... near chok chai and we have had helicopters, planes and other military vehicles leaving here (for the border) heavily since yesterday (monday)

[husskydog]

Just had 5 RTAF helicopters fly over in formation, that's more than I have seen all together in the last 3 years!

Ok thats news... But

where are you and which way were they going? after bugs bunny?

Passed over my house about an hour ago, heading for Surin...the Kings Daughter is there at the moment on holiday...i waved but they didn`t tilt their rotors...never mind..

[thailandbluegrass]

I think what it all boils down to is if your flying into PP you're fine. If you need to cross a boarder from Thailand to Cambodia just don't do it, change your plans to Laos etc if it's for visa purposes. After all it seems like they are on the "verge" of war so why would anyone want to brave that unless you have been here to long and forget what reality is lmao.

[Just1Voice]

The Abhisit government is more corrupt, more murky and more violent than any other government since 1990.

Evidence?

Evidence? Try Transparancy International, which now rates Thailand as MORE CORRUPT than during the Thaksin Administration.

[CallumW]

We just had 3 hueys come over, complete with camo paint. How surreal is that? Sitting on the porch seeing Huey helicopters flying over rice paddies, flash back to just about every major Vietnam war movie ever made!