Us Visa Denied For Thai Wife

[daboyz1]

Amazing.

When an american marries a foreigner, he can not bring her into the Land Of Freedom, unless they go through months of paperwork, and even then, they can not be sure about the outcome?

I took my wife to europe shortly after we married - she now has permanent residence status in most of europe, hardly any paperwork was involved.

And automatically a work permit.

And automatically national health insurance.

(But she can not travel to that american island off our coast....oh well, blimey, nothing interesting there anyway).

I'm racking my brain (not hard to do with so little) . What island is that?

the UK

European visa / residency is not valid there.......

Ahh ok. LOL!

[trisailer]

I'm inclined to agree that it is the mood of the interviewer at the exact moment that she is standing at the window. BTW my wife's interviewer spoke to her in perfect Thai and me in English.

We sailed through the K-1 process and the green card and the 10 year green card and because we decided to return to Thailand to live (and thus risked loosing her green card) we applied for US citizenship. That's where the problems started. For some reason one bureaucrat didn't like something he saw and sat on her application. This was in spite of her excellent history of work and college in the US over the 3 years she lived there. We contacted our congressman who got them to make a decision.

It reminded me of drivers tests which seem to fail 30% of applcants for no good reason. This is something that must be taught in bureaucrat school and is aimed at making said bureaucrat feel powerful.

As for the comments about bringing your Thai wife to the US and the risk of her dumping you for a younger, richer man I think it's pretty funny when men embarrass themselves by admitting their poor judgement and describing how a Thai girl took them to the cleaners. Sour grapes from men who played the game and lost. Most of these loosers likely deserved what they got.

[daboyz1]

I'm inclined to agree that it is the mood of the interviewer at the exact moment that she is standing at the window. BTW my wife's interviewer spoke to her in perfect Thai and me in English.

We sailed through the K-1 process and the green card and the 10 year green card and because we decided to return to Thailand to live (and thus risked loosing her green card) we applied for US citizenship. That's where the problems started. For some reason one bureaucrat didn't like something he saw and sat on her application. This was in spite of her excellent history of work and college in the US over the 3 years she lived there. We contacted our congressman who got them to make a decision.

It reminded me of drivers tests which seem to fail 30% of applcants for no good reason. This is something that must be taught in bureaucrat school and is aimed at making said bureaucrat feel powerful.

As for the comments about bringing your Thai wife to the US and the risk of her dumping you for a younger, richer man I think it's pretty funny when men embarrass themselves by admitting their poor judgement and describing how a Thai girl took them to the cleaners. Sour grapes from men who played the game and lost. Most of these loosers likely deserved what they got.

Well said.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Yes age will be the big factor. Is the wife's name on the actual papers of the apartment complex and has it been on the tabien baan of the land for a while? Prior to marriage, did she have a decent amount of assets and a good job? What's her education level?

On a side note but probably related to this and all cases, I have a friend that was a maintenance contractror for the British embassies and would have to go to the various embassies in different countries. The stories he tells of back office employees discussing each case brought before them makes it sound like many decisions are based on how they felt at the time, whether they were hungover, whether they thought it was a sham etc. Basically many of the decisions were based on which way the wind was blowing and how the officers were feeling that particular day made for a yes or no answer on issuing a visa according to my friend.

I don't believe this claim that you make at all. What do mean by "The stories he tells of back office employees discussing each case brought before them" - these are not the decision makers are they!!! These underlings probably do this to 'boost their feelings of self-importance' and are in all likelihood simply data recorders transferring the information from the application forms to a computer data base. Do you think that THOSE charged with actually making the decisions are going to put things such as "too ugly" or "didn't like the way he looked at me" etc: on the forms to feed the mirth of those immature "schoolboyish fantasiser's" you care to mention???? I think that this is purely people's false perception as to what happens through ignorance of such matters. Sure, if those making the decisions got up in a bad mood or had just had a blazing row with the wife it could just jeopardise the outcome of an in-the-balance application as it's 'human nature' unfortunately, to try to dissipate some of your anger and self-upset to some other innocent party where the opportunity to do so is there . However, if you have a genuine and convincing case then no matter their mood, you will get your visa. They are professionals after all - and shouldn't be demonised in such fashion unless you have the facts to go with your reasoning!! Also, their performance must (should be) monitored by their superiors as it is a serious business that will have a direct affect on people's future aspirations and dreams of assuming a new life in a new country that they are passing judgement on. Not some "Mickey Mouse" affair as you seem to imply it is!!

[kropotkin]

Yes age will be the big factor. Is the wife's name on the actual papers of the apartment complex and has it been on the tabien baan of the land for a while? Prior to marriage, did she have a decent amount of assets and a good job? What's her education level?

On a side note but probably related to this and all cases, I have a friend that was a maintenance contractror for the British embassies and would have to go to the various embassies in different countries. The stories he tells of back office employees discussing each case brought before them makes it sound like many decisions are based on how they felt at the time, whether they were hungover, whether they thought it was a sham etc. Basically many of the decisions were based on which way the wind was blowing and how the officers were feeling that particular day made for a yes or no answer on issuing a visa according to my friend.

I don't believe this claim that you make at all. What do mean by "The stories he tells of back office employees discussing each case brought before them" - these are not the decision makers are they!!! These underlings probably do this to 'boost their feelings of self-importance' and are in all likelihood simply data recorders transferring the information from the application forms to a computer data base. Do you think that THOSE charged with actually making the decisions are going to put things such as "too ugly" or "didn't like the way he looked at me" etc: on the forms to feed the mirth of those immature "schoolboyish fantasiser's" you care to mention???? I think that this is purely people's false perception as to what happens through ignorance of such matters. Sure, if those making the decisions got up in a bad mood or had just had a blazing row with the wife it could just jeopardise the outcome of an in-the-balance application as it's 'human nature' unfortunately, to try to dissipate some of your anger and self-upset to some other innocent party where the opportunity to do so is there . However, if you have a genuine and convincing case then no matter their mood, you will get your visa. They are professionals after all - and shouldn't be demonised in such fashion unless you have the facts to go with your reasoning!! Also, their performance must (should be) monitored by their superiors as it is a serious business that will have a direct affect on people's future aspirations and dreams of assuming a new life in a new country that they are passing judgement on. Not some "Mickey Mouse" affair as you seem to imply it is!!

They are the same professionals who - once upon a time, when i transitted the Land Of The Free, gave me a list of questions to answer.

One question was: Do you plan to overthrow the American government by violence or anarchy?

It took me all of my selfcontrol to NOT ask if that was a multiple choice question......

I still wonder how many communists were caught by asking that question.

[daboyz1]

The Citizenship has some odd ones also:

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/n-400.pdf

Questions 9-12 are interesting.

[thaihome]

His marriage is registered and everything is completely above board. We are following the rules and nothing is any easier. Again informative feedback would be welcomed only. Thanks

Did your brother include copies of his 7 years worth of WP and visa extensions? Did he get a letter from his employer saying that he had job and would still be employed when he returned from his trip?

Been some amazingly inaccurate stuff posted on this thread, despite ProThaiExpats post that summed up how to get a tourist visa for a wife or GF while living in Thailand.

If you don’t live in Thailand or cannot prove you do (i.e tourist visa or 90 day Non-Imm permission to stay stamps) then it is unlikely your significant other will get one, there is just not enough evidence she is not trying to circumvent the immigration system.

I have told countless people who have applied for US tourist visas for their wives/GF the key is them. They can list all the assets, money, jobs whatever, but the key is establishing her relationship to you and your ties to Thailand.

I know this from my own experience in getting my wife a US tourist visa along with many friends that have successfully done so.

The age difference is not an issue either. I have a very good friend that got his GF (not married) a visa last year (10 year, multi entry of course) and there is 38 years between them. He was putting the package together and was going on and on about her house, land, and money in the bank when I suggested he include copies of his 5 years on retirement visa extensions and the joint bank account they have. When she got back from the interview she reported all that was asked was about her relationship and him staying in Thailand.

Take this as you want, but it is based on real life experience and ones that talk about refusals are usually unwilling to talk about if they submitted anything that established the husband’s ties to Thailand. It usually comes out that they have never got a permission to stay extension and cannot prove the ties to Thailand.

TH

[trogers]

She is 23, and a recent graduate. I guess she has not traveled much out of Thailand.

To lower any suspicions that she may stay on illegally in the US, her passport needs to record a few 3-5 days trips to say Singapore, HK, Malaysia within the past year.

A 'working' girl tends to stay at least 2 weeks in such countries, if not longer.

Edited February 14, 2011 by trogers

[ProThaiExpat]

Thank you SICHONSTEVE and thaihome for your posts that are so spot on and cut through so much of the garbage posted in this thread.

I was tempted, but not enough, to post a comprehensive list of what to do by summarizing the negative threads, such as:

1. Don't bother to fill out the application completely or accurately or attach documents as the visa application review process is pure luck, like the lottery and depends on whether the interviewer burnt his toast that morning.

2. Pay attention to the advice of people who did not get their visas as they are the best judge of how to get it done, not the advice from "know it alls" that got their visas many times and think they know something, when it is pure luck they got theirs, not their preparation.

3. It doesn't make any difference if you have had a fiance for a year or more when your turned down as that experience clearly applies to men married to their Thai wife for five years or more and has lived with her on a long stay visa for all that time since luck is what controls, not the facts.

4. Interviewers have heard it all before so telling the complete truth and having a convincing story makes no difference because they just don't listen or even look at the documents.

5. Too many documents result in denials so don't document what facts you are trying to establish. After all, confirming the truth of your story with documents is unnecessary as the interviewer will believe your story when you tell it. Thus it is your choice to pick and choose which facts your document and which you don't as you can't predict which facts the interviewer will feel are important and even if you are lucky and do document those facts, the interviewer is to lazy to look for the document.

ad naseum.

I think it is relevant to emphasize that the law requires the interviewer to begin the interview with the mindset that the applicant is going to overstay and it is up to the applicant to prove to him otherwise. That approach by the interviewer is in the Department of States many websites on the subject.

Having dealt with claims adjusters for insurance companies for many years, I can tell you that is their approach also to all claims presented to them. They call it "raising red flags" and basically in reviewing a claim, all they really do is look for red flags, omissions in information they believe is important to establish the "burden of proof" that is on the applicant as it is in visa interviews. Likewise they look for inconsistencies in the information and statements that don't ring true to the interviewer.

We can wail all day about how unfair the process is, but until they change the law that allows all countries unbridled power in the granting or denying of visas, we have to deal with it.

Aussies will confirm that they get no third visitors visa for their Thai girlfriends because Aussie Immigration or the BKK Embassy feels that two visitors visas are enough for a girlfriend and that in the normal flow of things, the relationship should point toward marriage by the third visit so a marriage or partner visa is the next visa to qualify for! Guys who don't want to formalize their relationship with their Thai girlfriends are just plain out of luck, visa wise.

Since you cannot predict what pre-conceived notions the interviewer will come to the interview with, hitting each and every base in your story and documenting them should give him or her the one or two facts that they are looking for to base their decision on and which fits their preconceived notions on what is legitimate. It is called a "shotgun" approach, spraying enough gunk on the wall hoping that some of it will stick.

Edited February 14, 2011 by ProThaiExpat

[theoldgit]

They are the same professionals who - once upon a time, when i transitted the Land Of The Free, gave me a list of questions to answer.

One question was: Do you plan to overthrow the American government by violence or anarchy?

It took me all of my selfcontrol to NOT ask if that was a multiple choice question.

Wasn't it Oscar Wilde who when was asked that very question allegedly replied "sole purpose of visit"?

[kropotkin]

Thank you SICHONSTEVE and thaihome for your posts that are so spot on and cut through so much of the garbage posted in this thread.

I was tempted, but not enough, to post a comprehensive list of what to do by summarizing the negative threads, such as:

1. Don't bother to fill out the application completely or accurately or attach documents as the visa application review process is pure luck, like the lottery and depends on whether the interviewer burnt his toast that morning.

2. Pay attention to the advice of people who did not get their visas as they are the best judge of how to get it done, not the advice from "know it alls" that got their visas many times and think they know something, when it is pure luck they got theirs, not their preparation.

3. It doesn't make any difference if you have had a fiance for a year or more when your turned down as that experience clearly applies to men married to their Thai wife for five years or more and has lived with her on a long stay visa for all that time since luck is what controls, not the facts.

4. Interviewers have heard it all before so telling the complete truth and having a convincing story makes no difference because they just don't listen or even look at the documents.

5. Too many documents result in denials so don't document what facts you are trying to establish. After all, confirming the truth of your story with documents is unnecessary as the interviewer will believe your story when you tell it. Thus it is your choice to pick and choose which facts your document and which you don't as you can't predict which facts the interviewer will feel are important and even if you are lucky and do document those facts, the interviewer is to lazy to look for the document.

ad naseum.

I think it is relevant to emphasize that the law requires the interviewer to begin the interview with the mindset that the applicant is going to overstay and it is up to the applicant to prove to him otherwise. That approach by the interviewer is in the Department of States many websites on the subject.

Having dealt with claims adjusters for insurance companies for many years, I can tell you that is their approach also to all claims presented to them. They call it "raising red flags" and basically in reviewing a claim, all they really do is look for red flags, omissions in information they believe is important to establish the "burden of proof" that is on the applicant as it is in visa interviews. Likewise they look for inconsistencies in the information and statements that don't ring true to the interviewer.

We can wail all day about how unfair the process is, but until they change the law that allows all countries unbridled power in the granting or denying of visas, we have to deal with it.

Aussies will confirm that they get no third visitors visa for their Thai girlfriends because Aussie Immigration or the BKK Embassy feels that two visitors visas are enough for a girlfriend and that in the normal flow of things, the relationship should point toward marriage by the third visit so a marriage or partner visa is the next visa to qualify for! Guys who don't want to formalize their relationship with their Thai girlfriends are just plain out of luck, visa wise.

Since you cannot predict what pre-conceived notions the interviewer will come to the interview with, hitting each and every base in your story and documenting them should give him or her the one or two facts that they are looking for to base their decision on and which fits their preconceived notions on what is legitimate. It is called a "shotgun" approach, spraying enough gunk on the wall hoping that some of it will stick.

I have no doubt that you are trying to help bona fide applicants.

I have no doubt that what you say is true.

I have no doubt that i am lucky to be a european, not an american.

America: heaps of lawyers, lots of talk about The Free, but reality sucks.

[jazzbo]

Re: My suggestion about zero visa-hassle for Thai citizen trip to Bermuda. From Post #52

Did you ever consider that it could be a hardship for the grannies to travel....? Just a small thought.

Of course ... I was suggesting it as an alternative if the Visa for the young wife is denied or protracted -- from most parts of the USA excepting the West Coast it is not that far a trip and certainly a lot less wear and tear on the old folks than a maybe 20+ hour trip each way to Thailand...

... and WADR to those who received visas for their spouses/GFs -- just as those who have been denied are not told the basis for denial -- you really do not know exactly what was the basis for your being accepted such that it can be replicated ...

Edited February 14, 2011 by jazzbo

[mkawish]

Amazing.

When an american marries a foreigner, he can not bring her into the Land Of Freedom, unless they go through months of paperwork, and even then, they can not be sure about the outcome?

I took my wife to europe shortly after we married - she now has permanent residence status in most of europe, hardly any paperwork was involved.

And automatically a work permit.

And automatically national health insurance.

(But she can not travel to that american island off our coast....oh well, blimey, nothing interesting there anyway).

Yeah I agree. It's not right. Took a year to get my wife here. I hear it takes like 30 days in the EU.

My smartass comment on another website:

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Note:

Please fill out I-130, wait 6 months for approval, then 3 more months for an interview. (Unless of course we've bombed your country into the stone age, then you qualify for expedited processing.)

Welcome to the USA!!!

Just to be fair to all sides and all concerned....

Most who were not involved in the 9/11 both before and after incidents would, understandingly, not understand why there were so many additional rules and requirements being augmented into the process of securing a legitimate visa into the U.S.

It was the very same nature of the freedom for all attitude, assuming all the while that everyone is honest and innocent before being proven otherwise.... which attitude is fine with most people....

However, for a small percentage of people such attitude of offering freedom for all just works in the opposite direction as it originally intended.... for this small group of people just take every advantage whenever and whichever way they can.... which ultimately cause problems for those who are law abiding citizen....

For many who are not yet approaching 60 yet, would probably never believe that once upon a time, you could walk right to your congressmen office and shook his hands.... sat and watched a congressional meeting....

toured the White House and shook president's hands, if he happened to crisscross.... and

heard him asked visitors from various countries, "How are you today?" and "Where are you from?"....

The violation of the U.S. on September 11, has changed everything having to do with everything remotely connect to all security measures in the U.S.

The imposition of current security measures inconvenient everyone both the innocent and the not so innocent persons....

Personally, I hated it when I have to subject to bodily search, particularly when my better half was menstruating at the time.... However, the two female officers were kind enough, in the private screening room, to disobey their male superior, to just comply with the intent of the laws rather than the letter of the laws, thus avoiding further embarrassing my wife....

If and when everything is taken into consideration, the security measures imposed to date really are not too outrageous .... , however they are altogether extremely inconvenient.... imo :jap:

Edited February 14, 2011 by mkawish

[Heng]

Land/home assets in the Thai citizen's name, bring the originals (and copies) to the interview, preferably pre-marital IME (even if it's a Thai-Thai marriage) or at least dating as far back as possible, usually shows intent to return. % wise a huge portion of Americans have never even seen their title deeds, so chanotes are probably more symbolic of a permanent foundation over here.

I think we may have had 1-2 tourist visa denials in the family out of almost a hundred trips.

Edited February 14, 2011 by Heng

[traveldog]

Land/home assets in the Thai citizen's name, bring the originals (and copies) to the interview, preferably pre-marital IME (even if it's a Thai-Thai marriage) or at least dating as far back as possible, usually shows intent to return. % wise a huge portion of Americans have never even seen their title deeds, so chanotes are probably more symbolic of a permanent foundation over here.

I think we may have had 1-2 tourist visa denials in the family out of almost a hundred trips.

To Heng and others with experiences. Do you think we should translate the Thai docs (marriage reg, chanotes) into English? Did you?

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

[ccarbaugh]

As for the comments about bringing your Thai wife to the US and the risk of her dumping you for a younger, richer man I think it's pretty funny when men embarrass themselves by admitting their poor judgement and describing how a Thai girl took them to the cleaners. Sour grapes from men who played the game and lost. Most of these loosers likely deserved what they got.

Well said.

Yes, poor judgement 20 years ago. "He who is sincere in love is not the idiot." Just a real shame for the 3 wonderful kids to find out that their mother is like that. - I only hope that I will live long enough to be as perfect as you profess to be.

[ProThaiExpat]

Land/home assets in the Thai citizen's name, bring the originals (and copies) to the interview, preferably pre-marital IME (even if it's a Thai-Thai marriage) or at least dating as far back as possible, usually shows intent to return. % wise a huge portion of Americans have never even seen their title deeds, so chanotes are probably more symbolic of a permanent foundation over here.

I think we may have had 1-2 tourist visa denials in the family out of almost a hundred trips.

To Heng and others with experiences. Do you think we should translate the Thai docs (marriage reg, chanotes) into English? Did you?

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

The interviewer has seen so many such documents that it is unnecessary to translate them, I didn't. I would list each document attached in an index on top of them for ease of access and identification and the interviewer can have Thais in the office look at any document for him he can't read if he is interested in the actual contents.

I would arrange your documents in descending order of importance depending, of course, on the most compelling reason for return to Thailand, ie. if relationship to a falang resident in Thailand is the main theme, put the marriage certificate just after all the documents establishing the falang as a long stay. Finacial records at the bottom in that scenario unless husbands income or wealth is primary, while if the travelers application is based on a solo scenario, financial should be higher on the list but not the highest, as financial assets are not the most compelling reason for such a person to return. Employment, schools and children I would think would be higher on such a list.

[traveldog]

Thank you again ProThaiexpat, I had no idea this was going to be at all difficult and was going to send my wife in kind of unprepared. I mean we have traveled to other countries so I will include that as well as all the other documents you suggest. This has been a watershed of information and I think a must read for all who are considering a holiday back to the USA with their wife/gf. I'm keeping all of the more useful bits of advice in a document entitled "compelling reasons to give us the pleasure of visiting the USA with a speedy return to LOS"! Again thank you!

[jazzbo]

I would just like to add here that -- aside from my comments re: Bermuda -- my experience with US Federal interrogations comes not from the Visa interview process but from many years and maybe still being on a airport screening 'Watch' list ... and in those many inquiries there is no way that one could have anticipated the questions asked or have glib or canned answers rehearsed and memorized...

Good luck to the OP.

[farang000999]

The age difference will keep them from getting a Tourist Visa!!! The government will assume she plans on staying and working. I would recommend them to apply for a Fiance Visa (Even though they are married here) or a Residency Visa!!!. This will take 2 or more years, but it would be futile for them to continue requesting a Tourist Visa!!!

Where do you get 2 years? If he was in he US it would be 11 months maximum. Closer to 6-8 months in reality. Also, doesn't matter where there are married. Married is married. K-1 (fiancee visa) is not an option. Since he has lived in Thailand for more than 6 months, he qualifies for DCF (Direct Consular Filing) which would take around 3 months.

Also, once a marriage visa and subsequent green card is issued, it can't be used a tourist visa. Green Card holder must remain a resident in the US. Stays out of the US for 6 months to 1 year risk having the green card revoked for not maintaining US residency. Stays out of the US for more than a year will definitely end up having the green card revoked.

They used to issue a K-3 marriage visa, but that is no longer an option. It was a 2 year multiple entry visa into the US.

It is not simply the age !! I am 70 my wife 46

I doubt the US Embassy views 70/46 the same way they view 51/23.