So Who Finds Themselves Being Converted?

[newsite12]

Just a quick question to the board.

How many of you are starting to convert to Buddhism without actually being aware of it??

I am involved with a Thai family who are very staunch Buddhists, and seeing that it is almost a state religion here, I find it almost impossible to avoid it.

I have never been religious myself and when i first came here, i just went along with it to keep people happy and avoided it whenever i could. My Thai family are very understanding and i have explained that in the UK we are not very religious.. Well not those who were born into the Christian religion anyway. They are happy for me to not participate or participate as I wish.

I have been to a lot of temples, and i have tried waiiing etc, and when we donate for caskets, I do the bunch of incense sticks thing and bang the drum.

I actually quite enjoy this religion as it seems harmless to me. I don't believe in god, and this religion seems to not really have a god so much as a code.

Anyway. I am not saying that i am being converted by a long stretch of the imagination. You could say that i go along with parts of it as a mixture of curiosity and politeness.

Am i alone in this? Do many of you just refuse to even look at this religion after being so turned off by other religions. How many actually just go along with it for politeness and interest? How many of you have actually been drawn in and becoming quite involved? How many of you want to be monks?...lol

[robblok]

Not me im an atheist but i don't mind if my gf / wife goes to a temple. Up to her and when i have to go into it I will politely decline taking part in their rituals as they are not mine. Im not going to act like i believe just to make them happy or participate without feeling. I think that is an hypocrite act.

[smokie36]

Of all the organised religions I've witnessed it seems the least offensive. That's all I'm saying.

[saraburioz]

What a mess the world would be in if there were no religions.

I respect them all.

Atheists make me laugh.

[Jingthing]

What a mess the world would be in if there were no religions.

I respect them all.

Atheists make me laugh.

Now that's very funny, because atheists will often say what a mess the world IS in BECAUSE of religions.

[newsite12]

Not me im an atheist but i don't mind if my gf / wife goes to a temple. Up to her and when i have to go into it I will politely decline taking part in their rituals as they are not mine. Im not going to act like i believe just to make them happy or participate without feeling. I think that is an hypocrite act.

Hypocrite? A strange choice of words. I am not doing anything that contradicts my beliefs. I wai monks in a temple out of respect, i don't have the belief that they don't deserve respect. It is also a polite protocol, to flatly refuse to would single you out as arrogant. Which i am not.

If we go to donate for caskets, then that money is going to those poor unfortunates who die alone, with no family or friends to pay for a coffin and or go to their cremation. Donating for caskets is a symbolic way of someone wanting to make merit by saying a prayer for an unfortunate stranger and assisting in paying for a dignified sendoff before they go into the fire.

It is harmless to me... I am not atheist like you.. Just because YOU personally are athiest, makes everyone else a hypocrite???

I am agnostic, meaning i am unsure if their is anything on the other side so to speak. but i do believe in bad people come to a bad end, that is something i have seen with my own eyes. Also one good turn deserves another. maybe there is something in karma.. who knows??

Edited February 12, 2011 by newsite12

[thaimite]

Buddha never claimed to be a god, so to me Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy or way of life, therefore I think the question is incorrect.

As for the way of life and respect for sell and others that was taught by Buddha, I believe that is a good way to live you life, and to follow such teachings does not need any form of 'conversion'

[saraburioz]

Buddha never claimed to be a god, so to me Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy or way of life, therefore I think the question is incorrect.

As for the way of life and respect for sell and others that was taught by Buddha, I believe that is a good way to live you life, and to follow such teachings does not need any form of 'conversion'

Look up religion in the dictionary - nothing to do with god

[thaimite]

Buddha never claimed to be a god, so to me Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy or way of life, therefore I think the question is incorrect.

As for the way of life and respect for sell and others that was taught by Buddha, I believe that is a good way to live you life, and to follow such teachings does not need any form of 'conversion'

Look up religion in the dictionary - nothing to do with god

I am not interested in a dictionary definition of religion

My point is that I consider Buddhism to be a ay of life, and as such it does not conflict with the belief or otherwise or "Gods" or various religions that are GOD oriented.

If you care to do a web search you will find many threads debating whether not but Buddhism is a religion or a philosophy, and what I stated was that in MY opinion it is not a religion but a way of life.

However as in the way of Buddhism each to his own beliefs.

[robblok]

Not me im an atheist but i don't mind if my gf / wife goes to a temple. Up to her and when i have to go into it I will politely decline taking part in their rituals as they are not mine. Im not going to act like i believe just to make them happy or participate without feeling. I think that is an hypocrite act.

Hypocrite? A strange choice of words. I am not doing anything that contradicts my beliefs. I wai monks in a temple out of respect, i don't have the belief that they don't deserve respect. It is also a polite protocol, to flatly refuse to would single you out as arrogant. Which i am not.

If we go to donate for caskets, then that money is going to those poor unfortunates who die alone, with no family or friends to pay for a coffin and or go to their cremation. Donating for caskets is a symbolic way of someone wanting to make merit by saying a prayer for an unfortunate stranger and assisting in paying for a dignified sendoff before they go into the fire.

It is harmless to me... I am not atheist like you.. Just because YOU personally are athiest, makes everyone else a hypocrite???

I am agnostic, meaning i am unsure if their is anything on the other side so to speak. but i do believe in bad people come to a bad end, that is something i have seen with my own eyes. Also one good turn deserves another. maybe there is something in karma.. who knows??

Yes i think its an hypocrite act to pretend to do something you don't believe in. Just look it up in the dictionary. If your not doing anything against your beliefs then your not a hypocrite. I just don't believe so i wont partake in religious ceremonies. That does not mean i wont go into a temple to pay my respects to someone who died. I just won't do it their way but do it my way (making sure i wont offend anyone).

But for me it would be an act of hypocrisy to perform religious rituals that I don't believe in just to look good in the eyes of others. When the dad of my wife died i was there to support her. Helped to carry the casket even but i would not partake in their rituals. Just the same as some Muslim friends of her sister would come to pay their respects but would not partake in the ceremony either.

[robblok]

What a mess the world would be in if there were no religions.

I respect them all.

Atheists make me laugh.

Now that's very funny, because atheists will often say what a mess the world IS in BECAUSE of religions.

Right, i believe that religions cause a lot of problems. But i am sure there would be problems without religion too. But it does compound things. But religion is good too for leaders control the unthinking masses. It has always been that way and always will be used that way.

Edited February 12, 2011 by robblok

[saraburioz]

Buddha never claimed to be a god, so to me Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy or way of life, therefore I think the question is incorrect.

As for the way of life and respect for sell and others that was taught by Buddha, I believe that is a good way to live you life, and to follow such teachings does not need any form of 'conversion'

Look up religion in the dictionary - nothing to do with god

I am not interested in a dictionary definition of religion

My point is that I consider Buddhism to be a ay of life, and as such it does not conflict with the belief or otherwise or "Gods" or various religions that are GOD oriented.

If you care to do a web search you will find many threads debating whether not but Buddhism is a religion or a philosophy, and what I stated was that in MY opinion it is not a religion but a way of life.

However as in the way of Buddhism each to his own beliefs.

I suggest you do a search on meditation and anger management.

Buddha never claimed to be a god, so to me Buddhism is not a religion

Of course Buddhism is a religion

it's only atheists who are getting on in years and finding a yearning within that moan about Buddism being a religion

I laugh at Atheist getting themselves so worked up about something that doesn't even exist. :lol: :lol:

[robblok]

I laugh about religious people. When kids believe in an invisible friend after a certain age people know its bad. However religious people do the same thing and nobody thinks that is bad.

Then you got those hypocrites abusing young boys or girls while the church covers it up. I cant laugh about that somehow.

I also cant laugh about people being stoned because its written down in some book.

Also people killing each other because they have a different religion is not much fun either.

Now i think of it religion isn't that funny at all.. its more like a poison.

Your right Saraburioz i should not laugh about religion. Thank you for showing me the error of my ways.

[TheLaughingMan]

Religion is a crutch used by those of weak character and mind to help them cope with the reality that the world is a terrible place filled with terrible people and without this crutch they would lose all sense of hope and become suicidal or completely crazy or turn to evil acts themselves. So in that sense I think religion is great, keeps the weak ones from getting out of line I guess, the trade off is that we have war, murder, rape, torture and every other heinous act all in the name of religion..... so not sure whats worse. Religion or no religion.

As for the buddhist religion being less offensive than others, well I routinely see and read about "buddhists" killing and raping eachother here so not sure how its less offensive. Makes me as sick as any other religion seeing "devout" people act evil. How about that time some clinically crazy guy started smashing the buddhist shrine at Chitlom and several "devout" buddhists beat him to death on the spot. Ya, buddhism is as big a joke as the rest.

[Moonrakers]

Just a quick question to the board.

How many of you are starting to convert to Buddhism without actually being aware of it??

Not a chance in hell.

If anything, 'Mrs. Rakers is becoming increasingly agnostic and little rakersette absolutely will not be indoctrinated with such nonsense.

The temples make for a nice day out, that's it.

[Jingthing]

There are some Buddhist practices such as meditation that are arguably just good for you, regardless of your belief system, if any. Personally I think humans evolved to need some kind of belief in a higher power to deal emotionally with the awareness of personal death, which other animals don't have. So it is normal to have a belief system and it takes some effort to not have a belief system, as it goes against the way we are wired. It is true that even atheists and agnostics will often call out to a God when they are in a life threatening crisis. It can be argued that not believing is a kind of belief system in itself, and so is modern science, though as yet science can't promise life after death. Of course, just the fact that we are subject to this tendency towards belief systems doesn't mean the religious beliefs are true. Applying logic to them, clearly they are not true.

Edited February 12, 2011 by Jingthing

[mstribling]

I just go along with whatever makes me and my family happy.

Catch a buzz, sit on the floor, listen to the chants. Makes people feel good.

Convert, nothing to convert from, and I am way to lazy to suddenly become passionate about something.

[thaimite]

There are some Buddhist practices such as meditation that are arguably just good for you, regardless of your belief system, if any. Personally I think humans evolved to need some kind of belief in a higher power to deal emotionally with the awareness of personal death, which other animals don't have. So it is normal to have a belief system and it takes some effort to not have a belief system, as it goes against the way we are wired.

Very good.

So how about 'Religion is just the commercialisation of this belief system'

Most if not all religions are there to control and subdue, as well as being very profitable.

Granted there is a need for people to help us understand these "hard wired" beliefs.

This is all compatible with the opinion which I hold (and with which I know others disagree as is their right) that Buddhism as originally taught by Buddha is not a religion but a way of life,

Of course Buddhist do rape and murder and commit all the other sins of humanity, but generally it is not done in the name of religion, and I am not aware of any wars started in the name of Buddhism, although if there has been I am sure somebody here will be very happy to correct me

[saraburioz]

Religion is a crutch used by those of weak character and mind to help them cope with the reality that the world is a terrible place filled with terrible people and without this crutch they would lose all sense of hope and become suicidal or completely crazy or turn to evil acts themselves. So in that sense I think religion is great, keeps the weak ones from getting out of line I guess, the trade off is that we have war, murder, rape, torture and every other heinous act all in the name of religion..... so not sure whats worse. Religion or no religion.

As for the buddhist religion being less offensive than others, well I routinely see and read about "buddhists" killing and raping eachother here so not sure how its less offensive. Makes me as sick as any other religion seeing "devout" people act evil. How about that time some clinically crazy guy started smashing the buddhist shrine at Chitlom and several "devout" buddhists beat him to death on the spot. Ya, buddhism is as big a joke as the rest.

I disagree - I think men who turn to spiritual practices are much stronger than most who don't.

But religion and spirituality are not the same. Religion is for those who don't want to go to some kind of hell - spirituality is for those who have already been there.

And that shrine is not a Buddhist one - it's Hindu.

[Moonrakers]

Religion is for those who don't want to go to some kind of hell

I' don't want to go to hell, and I am not religious. But then I don't believe in the fairy tale stories so as far as I am concerned, I won't be going to hell. I also had a pretty crappy life as a kid, some might consider it as hell relative to their own. I certainly didn't turn to either religion nor spirituality.

Your statements are quite presumptuous missing a hell of a lot. .

[Travel2003]

Not me im an atheist but i don't mind if my gf / wife goes to a temple. Up to her and when i have to go into it I will politely decline taking part in their rituals as they are not mine. Im not going to act like i believe just to make them happy or participate without feeling. I think that is an hypocrite act.

I totally agree.

I respect whatever people believe in.

I look at myself more like a undecided (is there something out there?).

I both wai and shake hands, depending who it is.

Just being polite.

But I would never go in to a temple to sit down and wai to the munks, and the other rituals which belong to Buddhism.

Im not a Buddhist, and would feel like a fake if i did it.

If present during weddings and funerals, I will always be descretely in the background, but trying to of course pay respect to the newly wedded or the dead.

God is an imaginary friend for adults.

(Dont remember the name of the movie)

[TheLaughingMan]

Religion is a crutch used by those of weak character and mind to help them cope with the reality that the world is a terrible place filled with terrible people and without this crutch they would lose all sense of hope and become suicidal or completely crazy or turn to evil acts themselves. So in that sense I think religion is great, keeps the weak ones from getting out of line I guess, the trade off is that we have war, murder, rape, torture and every other heinous act all in the name of religion..... so not sure whats worse. Religion or no religion.

As for the buddhist religion being less offensive than others, well I routinely see and read about "buddhists" killing and raping eachother here so not sure how its less offensive. Makes me as sick as any other religion seeing "devout" people act evil. How about that time some clinically crazy guy started smashing the buddhist shrine at Chitlom and several "devout" buddhists beat him to death on the spot. Ya, buddhism is as big a joke as the rest.

I disagree - I think men who turn to spiritual practices are much stronger than most who don't.

But religion and spirituality are not the same. Religion is for those who don't want to go to some kind of hell - spirituality is for those who have already been there.

And that shrine is not a Buddhist one - it's Hindu.

Those are buddhists that stop and pray so not sure what the difference is. It was buddhists that murdered that man for smashing something important to their buddhist religion so not exaclty sure your point. This thread is about religion, if one wants to be spiritual and at one with nature that is pretty harmless by anyones definition, the control that religion has and uses to make men commit evil acts is something completely different. My point being, why are you talking about spirituality and insinuating there is a connection to religion when there is not. Your comments really have no place in this discussion.

[F1fanatic]

Religion, beliefs etc. are v personal.

Those that have some religious belief are convinced that everyone else is wrong, those that have no religious beliefs are convinced that the religious are wrong.

Everyone to their own, as long as they're not hypocritical about it.

[Thongkorn]

I believe in Right and wrong , I believe in good and bad , is that not religion.

[F1fanatic]

I believe in Right and wrong , I believe in good and bad , is that not religion.

No. Its a belief system that you live by. Have to admit that I far prefer people with a belief system to those who are 'religious'.

Buddhism used to be this way but it has changed.

[lannarebirth]

Buddha never claimed to be a god, so to me Buddhism is not a religion but a philosophy or way of life, therefore I think the question is incorrect.

As for the way of life and respect for sell and others that was taught by Buddha, I believe that is a good way to live you life, and to follow such teachings does not need any form of 'conversion'

Buddhism IS a religion as practiced here in Thailand, due to al the ritualistic behavior attached to it. Though largely it has little to do with the original philosophy of Buddhism. I wonder what it is that the OP finds himself drawn to, Buddhism, or what passes for that in Thailand? Maybe he's becoming an animist, fortune telling, feng shui, lottery player instead.

[IanForbes]

I don't believe in anything but myself. Everything else is smoke and mirrors. But it takes a life time of experiences to realize that. I know I've changed my opinion on some things at least 180 degrees from when I was in my mid thirties. In my Thirties I had life all figured out. That was before life threw me some curve balls. I hear it all the time in other young folks and just smile. They MIGHT learn a few lessons as they get older... but then again, maybe not. I just wish everyone well in their delusions about religion.

[Xangsamhua]

I both wai and shake hands, depending who it is.

Just being polite.

But I would never go in to a temple to sit down and wai to the munks, and the other rituals which belong to Buddhism.

Im not a Buddhist, and would feel like a fake if i did it.

If present during weddings and funerals, I will always be descretely in the background, but trying to of course pay respect to the newly wedded or the dead.

There are many different kinds of Buddhism. Thai Buddhism is just one form, and even that is becoming more diverse.

You would not be expected to prostrate before monks in a Tibetan or Zen temple or centre. Tibetans have a very athletic form of prostration that they can do anywhere. They don't do it as homage to monks.

It's perfectly reasonable to simply sit at the side during temple ceremonies in Thailand if you're uncomfortable with them.

Western Buddhism is developing without these practices, and their focus is not on the other-world and after-life, but on methods and practices that help them lead rational and responsible lives. Meditation and mindfulness are central.

Learning to overcome greed, anger and delusion by following the Buddha's teaching doesn't require belief in God or participation in unnecessary ritual. It's a healthy way of dealing with life, whether one is atheist, agnostic or theist. ( I think most Western Buddhists are found in the first and second categories.)

[Moonrakers]

Religion is for those who don't want to go to some kind of hell

I' don't want to go to hell, and I am not religious. But then I don't believe in the fairy tale stories so as far as I am concerned, I won't be going to hell. I also had a pretty crappy life as a kid, some might consider it as hell relative to their own. I certainly didn't turn to either religion nor spirituality.

Your statements are quite presumptuous missing a hell of a lot. .

I confused myself reading that back.

What I meant was, if somebody turns to religion because they are afraid of hell then surely they were religious all along. People who are not religious do not believe in heaven or hell.

Why turn to religion to avoid something that you don't believe in anyway?

[isanbirder]

Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion. The form of Buddhism which is practiced inThailand is so heavily overlaid with animism that I doubt the Buddha would recognise it. I have spent many years both in the North and in Isan, and in both places it is the rankest of superstitions. True Buddhism, following the dhamma, is practised by only a minority of Thais, and that includes monks. Most thimking Thais I know agree with this assessment.

I am a Catholic, but I respect the teaching of the Buddha; I do not respect the mumbo-jumbo which so often passes for Buddhism here.