Obama says US working with Pakistan for release of US diplomat

[News_Editor]

Obama says US working with Pakistan for release of US diplomat

2011-02-16 05:37:25 GMT+7 (ICT)

WASHINGTON (BNO NEWS) -- U.S. President Barack Obama on Tuesday said his administration will continue to work with the Pakistani government to obtain the release of the American diplomat Raymond Davis who is accused of murder.

"We've got a very simple principle here that every country in the world that is party to the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations has upheld in the past and should uphold in the future, and that is if our diplomats are in another country, then they are not subject to that country's local prosecution," Obama said at a press conference at the White House.

"We respect it with respect to diplomats who are here. We expect Pakistan, that's a signatory, recognize Mr. Davis as a diplomat to abide by the same convention," the president added.

On January 27, Davis shot at two individuals riding on a motorcycle at Mazang Chowk in Lahore. Davis claimed the victims were attempting to rob him and acted in self-defense.

"We're concerned about the loss of life. We're not callous about that. But there's a broader principle at stake that I think we have to uphold," Obama told reporters.

The U.S. Embassy said last month Davis identified himself to police as a diplomat and repeatedly requested immunity under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations.

"Local police and senior authorities failed to observe their legal obligation to verify his status with either the U.S. Consulate General in Lahore or the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad," the Embassy said in the statement.

U.S. Senator John Kerry arrived in Pakistan on Tuesday to meet with senior Pakistani government officials in an attempt to ease the political crisis over the detention of Davis.

"I know that in recent days emotions have been very stressed by an extraordinarily unfortunate incident involving a diplomat assigned to the United States Embassy. We're all aware of that,†Kerry said at a news conference in Lahore.

"I want to come here today to express our deepest regret for this tragic event and to express the sorrow of  the American people for the loss of  life that has taken place," he added.

The visit comes just days after the United States on Saturday announced that it postponed a planned trilateral meeting with Afghanistan and Pakistan expected to be held on February 23-24.

-- © BNO News All rights reserved 2011-02-16

[SerpentSea]

"We're concerned about the loss of life. We're not callous about that. But there's a broader principle at stake that I think we have to uphold," Obama told reporters.

What about the "You shall not kill." or murderers have to face justice principle?

Simply waive his diplomatic immunity, that should solve all problems here.

two examples:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/08/world/us-asks-pakistan-to-lift-un-envoy-s-immunity-after-a-violent-quarrel.html?src=pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gueorgui_Makharadze

[Ulysses G.]

Why should a diplomat who acted in self defense have to deal with a corrupt court system?

[siampolee]

Why should a diplomat who acted in self defense have to deal with a corrupt court system?

You were there, you witnessed the whole incident, therefore your profound judgement is infallible ? None of us know the truth, nor to be realistic, we never will.

There are always three sides to a story such as this. The American side, the Pakistani side, then somewhere in the middle hidden from prying eyes, " THE TRUTH !! "

The truth in political matters such as this one is about as rare as hen's teeth. Rife speculation no more than lynch law.

[Ulysses G.]

In other words, it's another Zionist conspiracy.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[siampolee]

What on earth are you babbling on about ?

I see no references to any cults or religious or political beliefs.

[Ulysses G.]

I guess there is always a first time.

I've been conditioned by all your other political posts.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[beechguy]

"We're concerned about the loss of life. We're not callous about that. But there's a broader principle at stake that I think we have to uphold," Obama told reporters.

What about the "You shall not kill." or murderers have to face justice principle?

Simply waive his diplomatic immunity, that should solve all problems here.

two examples:

http://www.nytimes.c...rel.html?src=pm

http://en.wikipedia....rgui_Makharadze

Going by those examples, why should they waive diplomatic immunity in this case, in neither of those cases was the diplomat acting against an armed threat.

Edited February 17, 2011 by beechguy

[flying]

Something I posted elsewhere about this whole story

For myself........I am sure we will never know the truth...

But a few things stand out

1) This man who is the supposed diplomat was armed & capable in a local registered car not a diplomat plated car.

2) The British have reported he entered Pakistan on a visitor visa & also had done so 9 times before.He claimed in a video after arrest that his passport was lost or possibly under the seat of the Pakistan registered car?

3) He supposedly shot in self defense while being robbed????

Yet he shot through his windshield 9 times.

hitting both the suspects in the back up to 4 times each ???

Shot robbers in the back while they were on the bike?

Was he already robbed & they escaping? Because that is the only scenario that would fit his being robbed story.

4) The other vehicle a 4x4 that later came ran over & killed a 3rd person...... Where are they? Why did they flee? Why if they were scared of the local crowd have they not come forward since while under protection of the US embassy?

There is more holes in this Davis story than a block of Swiss cheese.

Personally as an American I feel the government of the USA is making a big mistake trying to back this one up.

At a time when the drones are falling there it just looks extra bad & may also be interpreted as a false flag event & just looking for a reason to now also move into Pakistan.

How about this analogy.......

An armed Pakistani driving down Pennsylvania avenue in Washington in a non diplomat plated car shoots in the back & kills 2 Americans & another car with Pakistanis tries to come to his aid killing a 3rd American then flees.

The Pakistani arrested later claims diplomatic immunity yet has not proof of entering the US on such a passport..........What would be his fate?

We will see where it goes.

Edited February 17, 2011 by flying

[chuckd]

Following is Stratfor's take on the situation. If you want to read it please do so. If you don't want to read it, I don't really care. Up to you, as they say.

______________________________________________________

he Threat of Civil Unrest in Pakistan and the Davis Case

February 16, 2011 | 1750 GMT

By Scott Stewart

On Feb. 13, the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) issued a statement demanding that the government of Pakistan execute U.S. government contractor Raymond Davis or turn him over to the TTP for judgment. Davis, a contract security officer for the CIA, has been in Pakistani custody since a Jan. 27 incident in which he shot two men who reportedly pointed a pistol at him in an apparent robbery attempt.

Pakistani officials have corroborated Davis’ version of events and, according to their preliminary report, Davis appears to have acted in self-defense. From a tactical perspective, the incident appears to have been (in tactical security parlance) a “good shoot,” but the matter has been taken out of the tactical realm and has become mired in transnational politics and Pakistani public sentiment. Whether the shooting was justified or not, Davis has now become a pawn in a larger game being played out between the United States and Pakistan.

Article continues here: http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110216-threat-civil-unrest-pakistan-and-davis-case?utm_source=SWeekly&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110216&utm_content=readmore&elq=b0a61511e44f46f3a154733ea7002035

[chuckd]

Something I posted elsewhere about this whole story

For myself........I am sure we will never know the truth...

But a few things stand out

1) This man who is the supposed diplomat was armed & capable in a local registered car not a diplomat plated car.

2) The British have reported he entered Pakistan on a visitor visa & also had done so 9 times before.He claimed in a video after arrest that his passport was lost or possibly under the seat of the Pakistan registered car?

3) He supposedly shot in self defense while being robbed????

Yet he shot through his windshield 9 times.

hitting both the suspects in the back up to 4 times each ???

Shot robbers in the back while they were on the bike?

Was he already robbed & they escaping? Because that is the only scenario that would fit his being robbed story.

4) The other vehicle a 4x4 that later came ran over & killed a 3rd person...... Where are they? Why did they flee? Why if they were scared of the local crowd have they not come forward since while under protection of the US embassy?

There is more holes in this Davis story than a block of Swiss cheese.

Personally as an American I feel the government of the USA is making a big mistake trying to back this one up.

At a time when the drones are falling there it just looks extra bad & may also be interpreted as a false flag event & just looking for a reason to now also move into Pakistan.

How about this analogy.......

An armed Pakistani driving down Pennsylvania avenue in Washington in a non diplomat plated car shoots in the back & kills 2 Americans & another car with Pakistanis tries to come to his aid killing a 3rd American then flees.

The Pakistani arrested later claims diplomatic immunity yet has not proof of entering the US on such a passport..........What would be his fate?

We will see where it goes.

May I comment on your four hypothesis?

1. Many US Embassies around the world use vehicles from local contractors for transportation. These vehicles are leased and maintained by the local contractors and are often armored at the direction of the Embassy. These vehicles have local license plates and are meant to blend in with the local population, rather than standing apart with Diplomatic plates.

2. When you say the British have reported, I assume you mean the British media. If not the media, why would the British government want to become involved?

3. What is so unbelievable about shooting back while one is being robbed? He is a trained marksman and likely felt these two protagonists were less than adept at handling firearms, yet serious enough to kill him if they so wished. What would you do in the same situation?

This bit about the windshield bothers me. If he shot through the windshield, his shots would be deflected off-line and probably miss the target. I am wondering if the bullet holes in the windshield were caused by the two Pakistanis shooting at him. In addition, if the lease vehicle he was driving was one of the armored type, the bullets would not penetrate in and he would know they would not exit. Perhaps he wasn't even in the vehicle when the attack occurred. He was using an ATM after all. I have no answer for the back shots, if they really were back shots.

4. Everything I have read about the other vehicle driver is he and the occupants have left the country. Perhaps they did not have diplomatic cover and knew that, at least in Pakistan, leaving the country was the only sensible thing to do. I am sure Senator Kerry will come up with some nice monetary blood money settlement to placate the family. It happens all the time in the Islamic religion. Kerry has already expressed the deep regret of the entire US for the death of two armed thugs so diplomacy is at work.

The unfortunate civilian that was run over is the only victim I have any sympathy for. The other two got exactly what they deserved.

By the way, how do we know the two gunmen only had a robbery in mind? What if they were looking for an American to kidnap for a new head chopping video?

Too many questions remain and we will probably never know the whole story.

[Ulysses G.]

By the way, how do we know the two gunmen only had a robbery in mind? What if they were looking for an American to kidnap for a new head chopping video?

This a very real possibility.

[flying]

May I comment on your four hypothesis?

1. Many US Embassies around the world use vehicles from local contractors for transportation. These vehicles are leased and maintained by the local contractors and are often armored at the direction of the Embassy. These vehicles have local license plates and are meant to blend in with the local population, rather than standing apart with Diplomatic plates.

2. When you say the British have reported, I assume you mean the British media. If not the media, why would the British government want to become involved?

3. What is so unbelievable about shooting back while one is being robbed? He is a trained marksman and likely felt these two protagonists were less than adept at handling firearms, yet serious enough to kill him if they so wished. What would you do in the same situation?

This bit about the windshield bothers me. If he shot through the windshield, his shots would be deflected off-line and probably miss the target. I am wondering if the bullet holes in the windshield were caused by the two Pakistanis shooting at him. In addition, if the lease vehicle he was driving was one of the armored type, the bullets would not penetrate in and he would know they would not exit. Perhaps he wasn't even in the vehicle when the attack occurred. He was using an ATM after all. I have no answer for the back shots, if they really were back shots.

4. Everything I have read about the other vehicle driver is he and the occupants have left the country. Perhaps they did not have diplomatic cover and knew that, at least in Pakistan, leaving the country was the only sensible thing to do. I am sure Senator Kerry will come up with some nice monetary blood money settlement to placate the family. It happens all the time in the Islamic religion. Kerry has already expressed the deep regret of the entire US for the death of two armed thugs so diplomacy is at work.

The unfortunate civilian that was run over is the only victim I have any sympathy for. The other two got exactly what they deserved.

By the way, how do we know the two gunmen only had a robbery in mind? What if they were looking for an American to kidnap for a new head chopping video?

Too many questions remain and we will probably never know the whole story.

Sure you as well as anyone may comment

In answer to your comments.........

1)Yes I can see how a rental or other vehicle could be used for Diplomatic reasons....

Yet his vehicle also contained many un-diplomatic items.

A couple of weapons ( Glock & Berreta )...yes self defense is a possibility

Yet many magazines as well as ammo for rifles he did not have.

Quite a few cell phones, a satellite phone, a cell phone tracker, pocket telescope, knives etc.

2) Yes it was British Media that reported it & Pakistan media has reported the same.

I am guessing Pakistan like the US knows & has records of who comes & goes & on what type of passport/visa

3) Yes shoot while being robbed I agree....Yet the two killed were shot in the back 4x each

As for the windshield.... Yes some deflection but if the gun is held close not much. I would guess looking at the grouping

all shots were his & his hand rested on the dash as he shot....helping his accuracy greatly....9 shots 8 hits

The windshield basically shows muzzle jump only...common for 9 rounds fired at a rapid rate.

4) Yes the run away 3rd party only adds to the cloak & dagger aspects of this story

Why would an embassy person run? If in fact rescuing a diplomat in trouble where is the crime?

As for robbers.....Unless Davis had ESP I just dont see the robbery.

The two killed were shot in their backs.

Lastly IMO this man is a contractor...nothing more. He may be employed by the US....fine

That in no way makes him a diplomat.

He fcuked up plain & simple......sh!t happens ok.

He & his wife own a shell company

A security firm of sorts.

While they list their address as Las Vegas they actually reside in Colorado

It goes on & on & on

What ever........If the US feels so strongly that this man has to be lied for perhaps they have their reasons.

I do not think it is helping our ( USA ) credibility at all in a time when it is waning all over the world in both Financial & Military matters. Everybody fcuks up sometime. If that is what it is they should save their credits for a bigger time not blow them on things like this that just have too much going against it.

But hey although it is a supposed government of the people, by the people, for the people....None of us have a say so let the cards fall where they may.

Just my opinion of course

Edited February 17, 2011 by flying

[chuckd]

Edited post out. Screwed up the quote feature.

Edited February 17, 2011 by chuckd

[chuckd]

1)Yes I can see how a rental or other vehicle could be used for Diplomatic reasons....

Yet his vehicle also contained many un-diplomatic items.

A couple of weapons ( Glock & Berreta )...yes self defense is a possibility

Yet many magazines as well as ammo for rifles he did not have.

Quite a few cell phones, a satellite phone, a cell phone tracker, pocket telescope, knives etc.

These rental vehicles are rented for specific annual periods of time and assigned as the particular embassy sees fit. They are not daily rentals.

If this vehicle was his assigned vehicle, why would it not hold many 'unusual' and personal items?

I used to play golf with some US government types in Saudi and we often ventured to the golf course in one of these type vehicles, although it was armored. In those cases the government leased vehicles held golf clubs as well as special provisions.

Nothing unusual there.

[flying]

These rental vehicles are rented for specific annual periods of time and assigned as the particular embassy sees fit. They are not daily rentals.

If this vehicle was his assigned vehicle, why would it not hold many 'unusual' and personal items?

Nothing unusual there.

You may or maybe not? find page 9 of this official Diplomatic and Consular Immunity; Guidance for Law Enforcement and Judicial Authorities (Dept. of State Pub. 10524) interesting in it you will find the guidelines for such vehicles

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/150546.pdf

Also Davis is at most a consulate employee. As such he does not qualify for diplomatic immunity.

He originally identified himself as a consultant to the consulate Lahore

The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963.

That document states, in Article 41:

Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority.

As such I would guess gunning down two possible intelligence agents who were tailing him since none of the robber story seems to have any basis...could indeed be considered a grave crime. Add to that the botched rescue killing a 3rd innocent person & the subsequent fleeing of those in that 4x4...........well we will see. But as it stands he is not a diplomat & even if by some stretch of imagination he was then this incident if classified as a grave crime would still over rule it.

The US State Department says regarding the immunity claims of diplomatic and consular officials of foreign governments in the US:

International law, to which the United State is firmly committed, requires that law enforcement authorities of the United States extend certain privileges and immunities to members of Foreign diplomatic missions and consular posts. Most of the privileges and immunities are not absolute and law enforcement officers retain their fundamental responsibility to protect and police the orderly conduct of persons in the United States.

Diplomatic immunity is not intended to serve as a license for persons to flout the law and purposely avoid liability for their actions.

Again my analogy of a reverse situation in the USA occurring on Pennsylvania avenue....following the above US State Dept rules.....The Pakistani in the analogy would never walk & rightfully so.

If due to economic/diplomatic/military pressure by the US this contractor is freed I am guessing we will see quite a reaction not only on the streets of Pakistan but elsewhere too as our ( USA ) credibility falls yet again.

As I said sh!t happens but you need to know when to hold & when to fold.

Contractors blow as contractors do...Blackwater now called XE services due to many infractions is a mirror image.

This Davis & his company that now shows as a blank page on the web rolled the dice...now he pays the price.

Again just my opinion but.....Davis does not deserve the the US perjuring itself & neither does Pakistan

Edited February 17, 2011 by flying

[flying]

Davis all set to walk free as US prez pulls strings

TNN, Feb 17, 2011, 07.44am IST

WASHINGTON: Some muscular coercion, a muffled apology, and an additional few hundred million dollars in aid appears to have paved way for a momentary resolution between United States and Pakistan of the Raymond Davis affair that is even now threatening to derail ties between the mutually mistrustful allies.

The modalities of how Davis, the "Diplomat," will be freed are being worked out.

The big question haunting Washington and Islamabad is whether the outburst will assume the proportions of the upheaval in Tunisia and Egypt and consume the weak government in Islamabad, bringing to power Islamist forces and jeopardizing US operations in Afghanistan. The US is expected to argue its case for Davis' immunity and release at a hearing Thursday at Lahore HC after the Pakistani government formally indicated that it had determined he enjoyed immunity.

The Pakistani softening came after US President Barack Obama and senator John Kerry played the good cop-bad cop routine. In a White House press conference, Obama left no doubt that the US will use every instrument of power and pressure to force Islamabad to release Davis, who he described as "our diplomat in Pakistan."

[beechguy]

Davis all set to walk free as US prez pulls strings

TNN, Feb 17, 2011, 07.44am IST

WASHINGTON: Some muscular coercion, a muffled apology, and an additional few hundred million dollars in aid appears to have paved way for a momentary resolution between United States and Pakistan of the Raymond Davis affair that is even now threatening to derail ties between the mutually mistrustful allies.

The modalities of how Davis, the "Diplomat," will be freed are being worked out.

The big question haunting Washington and Islamabad is whether the outburst will assume the proportions of the upheaval in Tunisia and Egypt and consume the weak government in Islamabad, bringing to power Islamist forces and jeopardizing US operations in Afghanistan. The US is expected to argue its case for Davis' immunity and release at a hearing Thursday at Lahore HC after the Pakistani government formally indicated that it had determined he enjoyed immunity.

The Pakistani softening came after US President Barack Obama and senator John Kerry played the good cop-bad cop routine. In a White House press conference, Obama left no doubt that the US will use every instrument of power and pressure to force Islamabad to release Davis, who he described as "our diplomat in Pakistan."

I don't care how it looks as long as they get the guy out of there. And I'm happy he didn't become a victim like these people in Nairobi. http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/01/two_relatives_o.html

I was on a temporary assignment working with the Military Attache mentioned in the next to last paragraph, they never gave him much of a chance to exit the vehicle before they shot through the drivers window. The incident with the two women, happened about 4 months after I left. Not everyone working at an Embassy or Consulate is riding around in an armored vehicle, and at times, may not be in a vehicle with diplomatic plates.

Maybe sometimes it is better to shoot first and ask questions later.

[chuckd]

These rental vehicles are rented for specific annual periods of time and assigned as the particular embassy sees fit. They are not daily rentals.

If this vehicle was his assigned vehicle, why would it not hold many 'unusual' and personal items?

Nothing unusual there.

You may or maybe not? find page 9 of this official Diplomatic and Consular Immunity; Guidance for Law Enforcement and Judicial Authorities (Dept. of State Pub. 10524) interesting in it you will find the guidelines for such vehicles

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/150546.pdf

Also Davis is at most a consulate employee. As such he does not qualify for diplomatic immunity.

He originally identified himself as a consultant to the consulate Lahore

The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963.

That document states, in Article 41:

Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority.

As such I would guess gunning down two possible intelligence agents who were tailing him since none of the robber story seems to have any basis...could indeed be considered a grave crime. Add to that the botched rescue killing a 3rd innocent person & the subsequent fleeing of those in that 4x4...........well we will see. But as it stands he is not a diplomat & even if by some stretch of imagination he was then this incident if classified as a grave crime would still over rule it.

The US State Department says regarding the immunity claims of diplomatic and consular officials of foreign governments in the US:

International law, to which the United State is firmly committed, requires that law enforcement authorities of the United States extend certain privileges and immunities to members of Foreign diplomatic missions and consular posts. Most of the privileges and immunities are not absolute and law enforcement officers retain their fundamental responsibility to protect and police the orderly conduct of persons in the United States.

Diplomatic immunity is not intended to serve as a license for persons to flout the law and purposely avoid liability for their actions.

Again my analogy of a reverse situation in the USA occurring on Pennsylvania avenue....following the above US State Dept rules.....The Pakistani in the analogy would never walk & rightfully so.

If due to economic/diplomatic/military pressure by the US this contractor is freed I am guessing we will see quite a reaction not only on the streets of Pakistan but elsewhere too as our ( USA ) credibility falls yet again.

As I said sh!t happens but you need to know when to hold & when to fold.

Contractors blow as contractors do...Blackwater now called XE services due to many infractions is a mirror image.

This Davis & his company that now shows as a blank page on the web rolled the dice...now he pays the price.

Again just my opinion but.....Davis does not deserve the the US perjuring itself & neither does Pakistan

I have found page 9. What's your point?

Obama won't let this die down. If he does not support Davis, the US public will see this as just another sign of weakness in his dealings with a Muslim nation. He can't afford much more bad press on that front if he wants another 4 years to screw up the world.

[SerpentSea]

"We're concerned about the loss of life. We're not callous about that. But there's a broader principle at stake that I think we have to uphold," Obama told reporters.

What about the "You shall not kill." or murderers have to face justice principle?

Simply waive his diplomatic immunity, that should solve all problems here.

two examples:

http://www.nytimes.c...rel.html?src=pm

http://en.wikipedia....rgui_Makharadze

Going by those examples, why should they waive diplomatic immunity in this case, in neither of those cases was the diplomat acting against an armed threat.

Who actually says that there was an armed threat?

An even if there was something like that that doesn't makes a diplomat to the executioner with the license to kill anyone at his own judgment.

[SerpentSea]

By the way, how do we know the two gunmen only had a robbery in mind? What if they were looking for an American to kidnap for a new head chopping video?

This a very real possibility.

Maybe sometimes it is better to shoot first and ask questions later.

With that logic someone could argue is always better to gun the American down on first sight before he shoots you because of his phobia and distorted mind.

Good luck to you and all other cowboys.

[Ulysses G.]

The terrorists don't usually bother making excuses. There are others that do it for them.

[beechguy]

"We're concerned about the loss of life. We're not callous about that. But there's a broader principle at stake that I think we have to uphold," Obama told reporters.

What about the "You shall not kill." or murderers have to face justice principle?

Simply waive his diplomatic immunity, that should solve all problems here.

two examples:

http://www.nytimes.c...rel.html?src=pm

http://en.wikipedia....rgui_Makharadze

Going by those examples, why should they waive diplomatic immunity in this case, in neither of those cases was the diplomat acting against an armed threat.

Who actually says that there was an armed threat?

An even if there was something like that that doesn't makes a diplomat to the executioner with the license to kill anyone at his own judgment.

Going by newspaper reports, and anyone has the right to defend themselves, that doesn't make them a murderer or executioner.

[beechguy]

By the way, how do we know the two gunmen only had a robbery in mind? What if they were looking for an American to kidnap for a new head chopping video?

This a very real possibility.

Maybe sometimes it is better to shoot first and ask questions later.

With that logic someone could argue is always better to gun the American down on first sight before he shoots you because of his phobia and distorted mind.

Good luck to you and all other cowboys.

I take it you didn't read the attached article so taking the statement out of context is to be expected, but somehow I'm not surprised given your past postings. If someone has or is pointing a weapon at you, I would think that would go beyond a phobia or distorted mind. Presently I don't need the good luck thank you, and thankfully Mr. Davis won't need it either for awhile. But you might of wished it for the dead Pakistanis he put in the ground, apparently they could have used it!

Edited February 17, 2011 by beechguy

[chuckd]

By the way, how do we know the two gunmen only had a robbery in mind? What if they were looking for an American to kidnap for a new head chopping video?

This a very real possibility.

Maybe sometimes it is better to shoot first and ask questions later.

With that logic someone could argue is always better to gun the American down on first sight before he shoots you because of his phobia and distorted mind.

Good luck to you and all other cowboys.

I would much rather be a live cowboy than a dead pacifist.

[SerpentSea]

Going by newspaper reports, and anyone has the right to defend themselves, that doesn't make them a murderer or executioner.

Newspapers who repeated just he American embassy statement and yes according to the shooter it was self defense, but not according to eyewitness reports and the ongoing investigation.

A Pakistani police chief has said a US citizen in custody over the deaths of two men in Lahore last month was guilty of "cold-blooded murder".

Lahore city police chief Aslam Tareen told a news conference that one of the men was killed while running away.

...

Mr Tareen told a news conference: "The police investigation and forensic report show it was not self-defence.

"His plea has been rejected by police investigators. He gave no chance to them to survive.

Mr Tareen also said that forensic evidence did not support Mr Davis's claim that one of the motorbike riders had approached his car window, cocked his gun and pointed it at him.

No fingerprints had been uncovered on the triggers of the pistols found on the bodies of the two men, he said.

And tests had shown that the bullets remained in the magazine of the men's gun, not the chamber.

"It was cold-blooded murder," said Mr Tareen. "Eyewitnesses have told police that he directly shot at them and he kept shooting even when one was running away. It was an intentional murder."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12427518

[beechguy]

Going by newspaper reports, and anyone has the right to defend themselves, that doesn't make them a murderer or executioner.

Newspapers who repeated just he American embassy statement and yes according to the shooter it was self defense, but not according to eyewitness reports and the ongoing investigation.

A Pakistani police chief has said a US citizen in custody over the deaths of two men in Lahore last month was guilty of "cold-blooded murder".

Lahore city police chief Aslam Tareen told a news conference that one of the men was killed while running away.

...

Mr Tareen told a news conference: "The police investigation and forensic report show it was not self-defence.

"His plea has been rejected by police investigators. He gave no chance to them to survive.

Mr Tareen also said that forensic evidence did not support Mr Davis's claim that one of the motorbike riders had approached his car window, cocked his gun and pointed it at him.

No fingerprints had been uncovered on the triggers of the pistols found on the bodies of the two men, he said.

And tests had shown that the bullets remained in the magazine of the men's gun, not the chamber.

"It was cold-blooded murder," said Mr Tareen. "Eyewitnesses have told police that he directly shot at them and he kept shooting even when one was running away. It was an intentional murder."

http://www.bbc.co.uk...h-asia-12427518

There is more than one account of what happened, and I wasn't there so don't know for sure. But, I don't think he randomly picked two guys on a motorcycle and decided to shoot somebody. If they showed their weapon, that makes them fair game far as I'm concerned, the only guy I have sympathy for is the one that accidently got hit by the other vehicle, and in some respects it's the fault of the motorcycle guys that he's dead.

Edited February 17, 2011 by beechguy

[chuckd]

Going by newspaper reports, and anyone has the right to defend themselves, that doesn't make them a murderer or executioner.

Newspapers who repeated just he American embassy statement and yes according to the shooter it was self defense, but not according to eyewitness reports and the ongoing investigation.

A Pakistani police chief has said a US citizen in custody over the deaths of two men in Lahore last month was guilty of "cold-blooded murder".

Lahore city police chief Aslam Tareen told a news conference that one of the men was killed while running away.

...

Mr Tareen told a news conference: "The police investigation and forensic report show it was not self-defence.

"His plea has been rejected by police investigators. He gave no chance to them to survive.

Mr Tareen also said that forensic evidence did not support Mr Davis's claim that one of the motorbike riders had approached his car window, cocked his gun and pointed it at him.

No fingerprints had been uncovered on the triggers of the pistols found on the bodies of the two men, he said.

And tests had shown that the bullets remained in the magazine of the men's gun, not the chamber.

"It was cold-blooded murder," said Mr Tareen. "Eyewitnesses have told police that he directly shot at them and he kept shooting even when one was running away. It was an intentional murder."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12427518

From your link:

"And tests had shown that the bullets remained in the magazine of the men's gun, not the chamber."

Please explain how somebody is supposed to tell if a round has not been chambered when they are facing the barrel of a semi-automatic pistol.

[SerpentSea]

Going by newspaper reports, and anyone has the right to defend themselves, that doesn't make them a murderer or executioner.

Newspapers who repeated just he American embassy statement and yes according to the shooter it was self defense, but not according to eyewitness reports and the ongoing investigation.

A Pakistani police chief has said a US citizen in custody over the deaths of two men in Lahore last month was guilty of "cold-blooded murder".

Lahore city police chief Aslam Tareen told a news conference that one of the men was killed while running away.

...

Mr Tareen told a news conference: "The police investigation and forensic report show it was not self-defence.

"His plea has been rejected by police investigators. He gave no chance to them to survive.

Mr Tareen also said that forensic evidence did not support Mr Davis's claim that one of the motorbike riders had approached his car window, cocked his gun and pointed it at him.

No fingerprints had been uncovered on the triggers of the pistols found on the bodies of the two men, he said.

And tests had shown that the bullets remained in the magazine of the men's gun, not the chamber.

"It was cold-blooded murder," said Mr Tareen. "Eyewitnesses have told police that he directly shot at them and he kept shooting even when one was running away. It was an intentional murder."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12427518

From your link:

"And tests had shown that the bullets remained in the magazine of the men's gun, not the chamber."

Please explain how somebody is supposed to tell if a round has not been chambered when they are facing the barrel of a semi-automatic pistol.

Please show me the part were this report speaks of facing the barrel of a pistol

[SerpentSea]

The terrorists don't usually bother making excuses. There are others that do it for them.

Yes, looks like the American gun man in that car with faked license plates who killed two young Pakistani men will also face terrorism charges.

People find excuses for him and defend the murderer really makes one vomit.